[Closed] Tarp or Tent?

I've not got the experience of some here on this subject but have slept under both recently.

My simple answer would be that if the weather is dry tarp and if it is wet tent.

The tarp will likely be cheaper and will you really set off bikepacking into known poor weather conditions?

A tarp gives a lot more space than a one-man tent and flexibility of how you use it/pitch it.

I have spent a few nights under both, most tarps being bigger canoeing ones.

Tarp - simples, slightly lighter but you do have to seek shelter, downsides are bugs find their way into you face during the night occasionally, and either real downpour or wind can find its way in especially with the tiny tarp set ups you see. I get damp sleeping bag in a bivvi bag. I find when you add in a bivvi bag the weight savings compared to my (uber light) tent are marginal.

Tent - depends on budget and requirements. I still go back to a tent more often than not - generally warmer and drier, less bugs (midges - I am in Scotland), and less susceptible to the weather. You can get some pretty cheap and light tents if you are not a snob (see second hand, Vango or backpackinglight). Again, if you are happy to seek shelter, you can go a tent lighter and less resilient than many look for.

I have a (flawed) Alpkit Delta that I have modded a bit. I am amazed that a £60, 1kg tent is *still* just about working for me 5 years / 50+ nights after I bought it...But you cannot pitch it in a wet blow easily. That said, its taught me to be less lazy and find good spots under trees, behind walls, in fanks etc

How tall are you?

I'm 6ft 3 and use a light weight tent but it's more like a coffin.

My friend at 5ft7 thinks it's great.

I'd buy a cheap tent to start with and replace the pegs with light weight ones.

You can pick up a highlander blackthorn cheap and should get that down to 1.5 Kg ish.

My friends all bivi and they just get eaten by the midges

Both have their advantages.

Tarp is great when its pissing it down as long as you can find a dry patch of ground to rig it over it keeps you and everything else dry. And you can cook, get changed, etc without going 'outside'.

Tent is great on those nights when you wake up and the flysheet is crawling with hundreds of slugs and your really glad thats not your face/bivibag.

Seriosuly, what is it with the slugs? Is it a weather thing, should I be sure to pack a tent some days?

The other option is a hammock (plus tarp if raining).

I've always liked the idea of a tarp more than a tent, but when it comes down to actually using it I much prefer my tent. Not much if any of a weight disadvantage, its more comfortable, warmer and keep the midgies out.

Looks like a lightweight tent then , cheers
Any recommendations on a good sub £150

Gelert one for about £25 and have a really good poo before you go. Fits in a medium frame bag.

I've both, in fact I've multiples of both... 😳

If I was going for one or the other I'd go tent. In bad weather (I live in Scotland where we get 'weather', sometimes as the saying goes four seasons in a day) it's easier to get in and out of wet stuff in a tent/vestibule (unless you've a humongous tarp!) than a bivi.

Tarp/bivi is more versatile and can be rigged just about anywhere.

I have SMD Lunar Solo which is halfway between being a single skin/glorified tarp with base and mesh front. Last outing the condensation was a bit of a mare.

Being open to the elements in nice weather is ace though.

Plan to use in the Mourners Mountains so a tent as the weather is very changeable and like Scotland loads of rain

On my own, if it's dry, bivvy bag.

If it's mixed, bivvy bag and the flysheet from an old Viking ridge tent as a tarp.
If it's really horrible I'd rather find somewhere sheltered or just stay at home.
🙂

But I usually go with 'er indoors, so it's simpler to split a tent.
Can't be arsed carrying one around on my own.

Tent for me. I go camping with my missus. there is no weight saving with tarps for two of us and its nice to be able to hide from the midgees

Yea, loads of midges here also, ideally want to do this as a bike packing thing, was thinking of carrying the tent on the bars, is that the best way to carry it on the bike or inside the seat pack?

I use both (not at the same time).

Having come from a history of using tents I find I prefer the tarp/bivvy bag most of the time. It's lighter and you're more likely to find a spot to pitch. But the real reason is that I simply prefer the feeling of being exposed to the outdoors. Watching the sun setting, the stars coming out, the wildlife, the clouds, the sunrise are all part of it.

A tent obviously offers a bit more protection and can be warmer and drier.

You can also compromise with some clever tarp-tent options like a Lunar Solo.

Anyone recommend best way to load up my Cannondale CAADX with Salsa Cowchipper bars which I'll be putting on

For a trial run you could simply strap a drybag to the bars but I prefer a fitted harness as it's more likely to avoid cable interference, frame rub and bag abrasion. I use a Revelate Harness and 13L Alpkit drybag with Woodchippers on my Amazon.

Some pics of setups for inspiration would be brilliant t

[img] [/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/14870663160/ ]DSC_0144[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/22384952@N02/ ]Colin Cadden[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode ]Flickr2BBcode[/url]
D5503, undefined@4.9 mm, f2.0, 1/800s, ISO50

[img] [/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/14870568590/ ]P1010496[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/22384952@N02/ ]Colin Cadden[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode ]Flickr2BBcode[/url]
DMC-TZ40, undefined@4.3 mm, f3.3, 1/250s, ISO100

That's the Revelate Harness, Alkpit bag and Revlate Pocket. If you're careful about packing and loading the bag then you can use the ovality of it to have the load a bit more horizontal than vertical.

There are more photos in that album

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk1WJwnZ

Tent in the frame bag

Mat and sleeping bag on the kanga

Cooking, food, clothes in koala

Bar extension thingy (the ones people use to mount extra lights, computers etc) mounted vertically to lift the light over the kanga.

Seperate camelback for water.

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8280/29615064674_2f3443f93c_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8280/29615064674_2f3443f93c_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M7YWXm ]2016-10-10_10-20-51[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/7614571@N05/ ]thisisnotaspoon[/url], on Flickr

Pics great guys, liking that revelate harness with a dry bag, frame bag great idea but would need to carry two water bottles so a smaller version needed

I've still not bought/used a frame bag, for much the same reason. I reckon it's not really necessary on shorter trips and displaces the bottles and I prefer not wearing a pack. No reason to get everything at once though - cycling with a light pack is perfectly feasible.

Also, being a short arse, the frame triangle doesn't leave much room for luggage 🙂

Been looking at the revelate and kanga harnesses on google images and prefer the lower profile on the bars of the revelate but unfortunately out of stock
So might have to get it sent from abroad

On longer trips we will mix rough camping with a campsite to get cleaned up. It's sometimes a bit difficult to pitch a bivi where you have some privacy. Another benefit of a tent.

However, backpacking tents are small and not easy to cook in. A tarp gives you so many more options

out of stock

Tarp = 1kg, partial weather protection, requires trees or poles at extra weight

My cheap lightweight tent = 1.2kg, complete weather protection and groundsheet, pitch anywhere. Slightly more bulky than tarp

No contest imo

My tarp weighs 218g

I've recently been pitching it using only the bike wheels for support

I was about to say how do you get a tarp to weigh 1kg? But if you include a bivi bag its pretty much the same weight as a tent.

Ti Goat Kestrel bivvy - 170g 🙂

I've still not bought/used a frame bag, for much the same reason. I reckon it's not really necessary on shorter trips and displaces the bottles

The alternative would be carrying hard and/or bulky kit on my back. Id rather take the equivelent of 2 bottles (1.5kg) on my back in a low profile camelback than 1.5kg of tent in quite a bulky rucksack making me sweat.

And once you've drunk the water you end up with less weight on your back and more on the frame which is better on a longer day.

Been looking at the revelate and kanga harnesses on google images and prefer the lower profile on the bars of the revelate but unfortunately out of stock

Depends on your frames geometry, unless you have a very tall headtube or you only use a rigid fork then you need something to lift the bag away from the front wheel when suspension compresses.

The other option is the blackburn an carradice bags which clamp to the bars holding the bag flat. But they're only suitable for aloy bars and light weights.

Have several of each 😳 Both have their pluses and minuses.

My lightest tarp (cuben fibre) is 140g (plus 150g for carbon fibre pole and pegs), my lightest tent (lasercomp) is 900g.

Weight for weight there's more room in a tarp. If I'm out with my wife then an Alpkit Rig 7 gives a lot of room, certainly more than a tent like the Vango Spirit 200 which is three times the weight. Last outing (on Coll and Tiree) took the Vango as we were just touring around mostly on roads.

I usually have my bivy kit mounted on the handlebars. I do have a partial frame bag (wildcat Ocelot) but use it less and less these days preferring to have water bottles mounted there. I'm using it in this shot taken on the track round to Bealach Horn on a recce of the northern loop of the HT550

[img] [/img]

From memory I had: summer sleeping bag and summer quilt, Exped sleeping mat, bivy bag and Rig7 tarp in the blue dry bag on the front of the bike. Spare clothes in the seat pack. Poles and pegs in the side pocket of the frame bag, cooking stuff and food in the main body of the frame bag.

Is that the Hike a bike to Belach Horn.
I am a tarp man but just bought a MSR Hubba Bubba at a good price will see how I get on in an enclosed space but will miss this
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4227/34709715180_ab1544d882_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4227/34709715180_ab1544d882_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/UTbn4b ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4215/34286541873_837568d1df_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4215/34286541873_837568d1df_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/UeMunF ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr

Well, if everyone is posting photos...

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/32743646200_5792b58608_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/32743646200_5792b58608_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/RTrKf9 ]Up in the mornings the thing...[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/29/31433978132_e4097d8fb1_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/29/31433978132_e4097d8fb1_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/PTHmyd ]Shelters #1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/30474948825_98bd421017_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/30474948825_98bd421017_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NqY5ya ]The tarp rigged in anger[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4275/34792833751_83bc1d86d2_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4275/34792833751_83bc1d86d2_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/V1wniZ ]Tarp rigged (Rab Siltarp1)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4468/36609491233_1459d0292b_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4468/36609491233_1459d0292b_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XM4dhH ]Bivy spot (am)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/37421306785_59d3d81514_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/37421306785_59d3d81514_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Z1MYLz ]Lunar Solo in all is (damp) glory[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7783/27505495545_3b819de0b6_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7783/27505495545_3b819de0b6_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/HUyRxP ]My nights lodgings...[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

Liking the look of this as a method of carrying sleeping gear, really like the way it sits out from the bars therefore not restricting hand position

http://salsacycles.com/components/category/accessories/exp_series_anything_cradle

Any thoughts?

Personally, looks like a solution looking for a problem.

420g of plastic that could break (see 1st gen Anything Cages).

My hand positions aren't restricted with a harness.

As SR says, his hands are not restricted by the harness...

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2948/33802489452_befe198bf2_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2948/33802489452_befe198bf2_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Tv1Ash ]PM & SR[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

As can be seen here a bit better, there's plenty space. More of an issue is the botton hitting the tyre when the fork compresses... (hence the tape looking like a tongue...)

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5793/30389346661_693a032d57_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5793/30389346661_693a032d57_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Nipm1M ]Packed up again, ready to go at 9.00 am sharp...[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/ ]Metalheart-UK[/url], on Flickr

Are they restricted using drops

I successfully used a pair of long old bar ends to support a dry bag away from frame and front tyre, and prop firewood bag on top of. (Mounted inboard of shifters and brakes).

Then I bumped into a chap sporting some of these on the Highland 500

http://www.baryak.com/new-page/

Rich - yes it's the peaty bit dropping down to the burn before the big push up to the Bealach.

I note you do like the tunnel style setup using the bike's wheels as support.

Here's the tarp in use in the trees just behind the big split boulder (makes sense if you've ridden this loop). It was blowing an absolute hoolie (my wife got blown off her bike on the descent down to here), hence the logs holding the back of the tarp down.

[img] [/img]

fudge9202 - Member
Are they restricted using drops

Matt I assume you mean these
[IMG] [/IMG]

A bit extreme but I would like a gap from the bars, the revelate according to scotroutes seems to cater for that, noticed online they have an updated version coming

oooooohhhh 🙂 where did you get them clamps from fudge?

I made a version of those using 4 reflector brackets and an offcut of tubing for the purposes of fitting lights above an old style bar bag.

[img] [/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/14919198498/ ]DSC_0150[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/22384952@N02/ ]Colin Cadden[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode ]Flickr2BBcode[/url]
D5503, undefined@4.9 mm, f2.0, 1/32s, ISO200

Remember that any weight on them causes a lot of leverage so they'll need to be exceedingly tight on your bars. Certainly not for carbon.

Lawmanmx not mine but in the link Matt posted

http://www.baryak.com/new-page/

150 dollarydoo's :O i'll stick with me Ebay 10 quid jobbie for now 😆

Ski jump bar ends inboard = £5 on eBay...

These are on aliexpress lawmanmx

[IMG] [/IMG]

I got these ages ago for a fiver. Not for the bar bag, to lift the light over the top.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carbon-Fiber-MTB-Bike-Bicycle-Mount-Double-Handle-Bar-Extender-Bracket-Holder-/252684185482?var=&hash=item3ad526af8a

I suppose if mounted vertically you could just strap a bag to them and it would hold the bar off the front wheel.

As for drop bars, I just strap a dry bag straight to them. Just rest my fingers on top of the bag when climbing. Added bonus on freezing days you can tuck your fingers behind it out of the wind!

@ fudge9202

What did you search for on there?

Edit: scrub that. Just seen TINAS's link.

Looks better than the one from aliexpress with carbon fibre

The spacers on the Revelate Harness make life a lot simpler when attached a drybag to the bars, definitely worth it if you're going to use it often enough

Re tarp or tent, I have all (5?) options

Flat tarp - I think I have 6...!
Shaped tarp
Floorless shelter
Single skin tent/shelter
Tent (double skin)

Never used a tent when bikepacking, usually a flat tarp or a trailstar clone, or a straight bivi bag with no tarp.

Recently acquired a proper 2 skin tent for some bikepacking in the winter when I might want a bit more comfort. Plus I've been after a good tent for a while and the timing was right

I think the revelate harness is the one I'll go for , does it attach also to the forks, would be concerned about rubbing on my carbon fork.

I do like the versatility of a tarp but here in Ireland you tend to get rained on a lot and for that a lightweight tent seems a better option, unless I learn how to make a bombproof shelter with a tarp( practice in back garden first!)

That's what church porches are for.
🙂

Much less likely to stink of piss than bus shelters.

Most front harness do attach to the crown of the fork, I put a double layer of helicopter tape on my carbon forks to prevent wear.

You can get pretty bombproof tarp setups but it does need practice. If it's genuinely wild then selecting a pitch in the shelter of trees or whatever is a good idea. There's a few pitching ideas on the review section of the BearBones site, there's also plenty of US sites showing different setups. Worth learning just two or three really well rather than loads so you can set things up when tired and it's raining, etc. The one situation where tarps do struggle is with swirling or constantly changing wind direction.

A tarp isn't more or less rain proof than a tent. It's definitely how you pitch it

You might find yourself with more room in a tarp than in a tent, and being able to pitch it so you can see out means you might feel less claustrophobic

I don't think there is a clear winner in all situations, most folks with both options and the ability to pitch a tarp modestly well (or better) agree that both have their strengths so you pick the best one for situation you're likely to encounter

A tent is reliably the same, but it means it's not flexible. A tarp and bivy give you more flexibility, but to get it reliable the same takes more practice and skill, and can be slower to pitch too.

e.g. I slept under a porch and in a cave in March in the lakes, both in a bivy. Tent wouldn't haven't been possible in a tent (unless it's freestanding)

You might find yourself with more room in a tarp than in a tent, and being able to pitch it so you can see out means you might feel less claustrophobic

My main issue with tents is when you're camping somewhere not particularly wild (S.E England), I always feel nervous that some early morning dog walker is going to stumble across my camp. So end up getting out of my tent as soon as the sun comes up and packing up (because there's nowhere to sit and make breakfast).

A tarp and bivi let's you see what's coming so you can happily have a doze in the sunshine or sit in your bag whilst breakfast cooks.

And a cheery hello to passers by potentially makes a cheeky camp a little less 'cheeky'.

I use both and decided on bivi and tarp for this weekends trip. Absolutely the right choice as it took me probably 15-20 minutes to find somewhere suitable to put it up before a decent nights sleep. A scout around in the light of the following morning didn't reveal anywhere I could have put up a tent.

I have not used a tarp (to sleep under) but have used a bivi bag once.

If I couldn't find flat ground I would rather sleep in a bivi bag. I can lie down most places but I can't abide a sloping tent. Drives me nuts.

Molegrips your right there nothing worse than a sloping tent!!

It's not just sloping that's the problem. If the ground is too uneven then it's impossible to get a taught pitch. That can cause sagging, flapping and insufficient ventilation leading to a build up of condensation.

Tarps and bivvy bags are definitely more flexible in those instances.

That too - my limited experience with a super light tent (Terra Nova Laser) showed me that the thing is hard enough to pitch taut as it is, never mind on uneven ground.

Chuffin eck.

Terra Nova Laser Ultra only 620g. Costs £990 though. My sleeping bag is 400g and a sleeping mat could be 350g, that's pretty light kit.

and being able to pitch it so you can see out means you might feel less claustrophobic

On the other hand, I can sometimes feel agoraphobic trying to sleep in the open and a tent makes me feel more cosy and secure 🙂

****ing hell
£990 for a tent

The standard Lasercomp weighs 900g and costs around £250 so those 280g are pretty costly.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if your kit weighs 1Kg or 3Kg so long as you get out and enjoy yourself.

so those 280g are pretty costly

Its less than £1/g, what are you talking about?! It's great value!

Your mental molegrips I'd rather have a heavy wallet that a super light tent lol

£1/g used to be what you'd pay to save weight on bike components - XT vs XTR, lighter seatposts etc. I've not played that game for a few years so I don't know if it's been affected by inflation.

Scotroutes I know where your coming from re parts but I couldn't justify £900 for a tent!

Yet.....

Your maths is out!

Std Lasercomp costs £250 for 900g
Laser ultra costs £990 for 620g

Those 280g cost [b]£740[/b] 😯

Cuben fibre is expensive though: an [url= https://www.alpkit.com/products/rig-3-5 ]Alpkit Rig3.5 tarp[/url] made from silnylon weighs 300g and costs £55. The [url= http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/9-cuben-fibre-flat-tarp.html ]Trekkertent equivalent[/url] made from cuben fibre weighs 125g and costs £140

Ha, my Rab siltarp weighs 218 g and I got it for either £24 or £28 earlier in the year on sale... 😀

(Mind you, it is also yellow....)

Really interesting thread ta. Especially photos showing tarp setups.
Op- have a look at the dd hammocks website.
They do cracking tarps and hammocks at reasonable prices (IMO).
Btw my neighbours thought I was crackers when I tested my tarp/hammock in the garden.:-)

Lucky then I live in the middle of nowhere only people laughing at my exploits practicing will be the kids s****ing from behind the patio doors

Senor j cheers for that I'm off for a browse

metalheart - Member

Ha, my Rab siltarp weighs 218 g and I got it for either £24 or £28 earlier in the year on sale...

How much does your bivvy bag weigh?

Mine weighs 170g TJ

What do you have Scotroutes?

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Kestrel-Bivy.html

I also have a Rab Ascent at 583g. That's made of eVent though so perfect for when I'm unlikely to need/use a tarp

That ^^ looks perfect. I was thinking something light and partial would work fine. No problems with dew or condensation?

It's very breathable. As always it helps if your head isn't fully enclosed, which works best when there are no bugs. You'll need a full-cover tarp configuration to keep rain off.