Talk to me about QR...
 

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Talk to me about QR Skewers...

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Been using the Vitus Mach 3 to work, now 4 times, and I have had to retighten the QR Skewers twice so far.

they don't appear to have undone as such, i suspect they have stretched a tiny bit, allowing the the wheel bearings to unload and get a little movement.

The skewers have been sensibly tightened, not swinging off them.

Are cheap skewers known for this, would I benefit from some Hope or Halo items perhaps?


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 11:38 am
 IHN
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For QR skewers, Shimano are the best, end of story. They use an internal cam rather than external cam that all the others use, which for complicated mechanical engineering reasons is just better


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 11:42 am
hightensionline, thols2, scotroutes and 27 people reacted
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I agree, Shimano are the best, I like Hope because they come in colours but in my long experience of quick releases (still not got a bolt through bike), Shimano are way, way ahead in terms of ease of use and security. Someone on here will have some they don’t want and will post them to you. Not me though, sorry, I’m guarding my stock!


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 11:55 am
 a11y
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I didn't even ride my Mach 3 before swapping out the QR skewers as they felt cheap. Shimano is still my default for QR skewers but on this I've fitted Halo XL Hex Key* ones for anti-theftness. Haven't come undone yet.

* I intially bought RSP hex ones but flimsy as!


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 11:59 am
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As above, Shimano ones are considered the gold standard.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 12:00 pm
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"stretch"

LOL


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 12:04 pm
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I've used the Halo porkies before and they were great. Shimano also great.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 12:15 pm
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Campagnolo/Fulcrum and Mavic also do closed cam ones that are as good as Shimano.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 12:22 pm
jameso, AD, AD and 1 people reacted
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Thanks for the input, i've ordered a set of the Halo Hex's up as i prefer the idea of that to a traditional QR


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 12:31 pm
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For QR skewers, Shimano are the best, end of story. 

This.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 1:48 pm
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Salsa are well regarded and I never had any issue with several sets of them if you want something lighter and blingier


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 2:07 pm
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I use to have some old X-Lite titanium QR skerwers than never come lose. They were the kind you tighten with the lever than gave have a turn with the lever closed.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 2:15 pm
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Shimano.
Aren't they meant to be more secure then hex skewers? Or have I made that up?


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 2:33 pm
thols2, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
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@lunge

I've heard that. They put more clamping force through the dropouts. Hex skewers needs to be done up quite tight to achieve the same thing. The ones I have have 10nm printed on them. When done with a torque wrench is way more than I would have done by feel alone.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 2:40 pm
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It's also much easier to check a QR compared to a hex skewer. I've never had a Shimano QR come loose but it's always reassuring to be able to check them before a ride.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 2:53 pm
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Thols2 beat me to it. Halo Hex skewers are great, especially on a bike you might leave locked out and about, but nothing lasts forever and when they go they give zero warning. Check'm every once in a while.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 6:28 pm
 jca
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QR skewers...for when you really need that kebab fast...


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 6:35 pm
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As above, Shimano definitely the best, but not the prettiest. I like Halo Hex but they're definitely not as good- they can both loosen if not tight enough, and snap if overtight, and it's pretty easy to do either. But they are light, and nice to look at.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 6:39 pm
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Shimano* +1

Just put your lock through the wheel if security is a worry.

Never had an issue with KCNC, MtZoom, Salsa** or Hope either.

*I have actually broken one, but it took some doing.
**did rip one out, but that was during the latter half of an argument with Newtons laws of motion and gravity, Newton won as usual.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 6:53 pm
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I have a Surly Ogre which I used to commute on it had a QR skewer on the front. If you have quick release on the front with disc brakes they do tend to undo after a while. This is not to do with the type of skewer its a inbuilt problem with quick release and disc brakes.

In my view it's not something to panic about just check your front wheel is properly done up regularly.

I have used Shimano and Salsa QR and a very old Ti hex key one.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 7:18 pm
 kilo
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If you have quick release on the front with disc brakes they do tend to undo after a while. This is not to do with the type of skewer its a inbuilt problem with quick release and disc brakes.

We currently have four Cx bikes with discs and qr, previously had a number of mtbs with this set up and this has never been the case. All on shimano skewers.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 7:48 pm
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We currently have four Cx bikes with discs and qr, previously had a number of mtbs with this set up and this has never been the case. All on shimano skewers.

+1

I still have two bikes with discs and qr, both Shimano front and rear. They never work loose.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 8:11 pm
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On front brakes, as per my recent thread, it occurs when the dropouts face backwards rather than forwards. Braking creates leverage, which, with the dropout facing (slightly) rearward, pushes the axle out, even when secured up properly. Shimano QR has proven itself the best in my experience at securing the wheel in these less than ideal circumstances, but still need to keep an eye on it unfortunately.


 
Posted : 21/03/2024 8:31 pm
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And just to repeat from the other thread, a counterintuitive thing is that smaller rotors increase the leverage at the dropout compared to larger rotors (because input is at the tyre contact patch and the wheel diameter doesn't change, so a shorter lever on the other side increases the leverage).


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 1:44 am
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We currently have four Cx bikes with discs and qr, previously had a number of mtbs with this set up and this has never been the case. All on shimano skewers

As I explained about 20 years ago(!), the design standard for a QR and dropout is not sufficient to resist the forces applied, and if the joint moves, the QR is liable to unscrew.

Some (most, I'm sure) assemblies exceed the design standard sufficiently such that they never slip, and if they don't move, they won't ever unscrew.

However there is no practical method for a user to tell if their setup is safe, other than to try it out and see what happens. If they guess wrong, the result may be a serious injury up to and including permanent disability, though this can come with the compensatory benefit of a 7 figure out of court settlement from the manufacturer, who will continue to insist that their equipment is safe, despite the design standard being demonstrably not adequate for the task demanded of it (as I explained 20 years ago).


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 7:06 am
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Yet decent QR skewers still manage a pretty good job of staying in place when slowing our 24st weight + luggage from 50mph on the tandem.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 7:41 am
 kilo
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Yet decent QR skewers still manage a pretty good job of staying in place when slowing our 24st weight + luggage from 50mph on the tandem.

Mate, we explained this twenty years ago, don’t you remember?


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 7:56 am
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"Mate, we explained this twenty years ago, don’t you remember?"

Clearly I need to cast myself into oblivion for being so forgetful


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 8:15 am
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I agree that many QR skewers and dropouts exceed the design standard sufficiently to avoid failure.

The fact that people are still now creating ridiculous explanations (skewer stretch? FFS) to avoid understanding the common phenomenon of bolt loosening suggests that even now some QR skewers and dropouts aren't up to the job required of them. It's a shit design with a long history of failure.

(And yes, loosening *is* failure even if the rider didn't crash. THere's no excuse for an inadequately specified fastener on the front wheel of a bicycle, it's just sheer incompetence to not consider the forces that it needs to withstand.)


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 8:20 am
 wbo
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I've never had a problem with a Shimano skewer.  What is the actual design standard that's repeatedly referred to.

There has always been a problem with fancy CNC'ed skewers that are pretty but flexible, particularly with non steel axles.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 8:43 am
thols2 and thols2 reacted
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It's not a shit design it wasn't intended for disc brakes. When you add disc brakes on a bike with OR and like my commuter bike don't check the front wheel is secure that often, things can go wrong. On bike with OR which have the wheels removed often it's not a problem.

Just check the wheel is attached properly once a week and it shouldn't be a problem.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 8:49 am
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in my defence, it doesn't seem unfeasible for a thin rod of metal (chinesium metal) with a small diameter thread on it to suffer some stretch when subjected to loading from both the QR mechanism and the hammering it could potentially take. It would only take a fraction of a mm over 100mm to then appear to be loose.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 8:53 am
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Yes sorry @alan1977 it's not an unreasonable idea to come up with as a casual guess when you see something unexpected but I hope a little bit of thought will convince you that a 5mm bolt won't yield plastically, repeatedly, without any signs of damage at a tension that is not sufficient to strip the threads. It's slipping just a little bit in the dropout and this causes it to unscrew. This is a common and well-understood failure of inadequately specified bolted fasteners, it was responsible for a major rail crash in the UK for example when some bolted rails came apart.

As for the standard: my website states

"The most recent ISO standard (1996) specifies that the quick release should be able to withstand a direct pull of 2300N, symmetrically applied, without slipping."

So 1150N per dropout is the relevant figure, given that the braking force is applied primarily to one side.

On the website I also present simple calculations showing that the force can easily exceed 2000N under strong braking, and that's before you consider the additional dynamics of (say) a juddering brake. Cannondale's testing suggested a force of close to 4000N may be achieved.

Like I said, most QR/dropout combinations cope with the load, but the ISO standard isn't adequate. At least it wasn't in 2006 when I did the work. It's possible that it's been updated since then, I haven't checked.

https://diskbrakesqr.wordpress.com


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 9:44 am
thols2 and thols2 reacted
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Is this why 'lawyers lips' were invented?

I had a bike that didn't have these and the wheel could move under hard braking, if the skewer wasn't done up very tight (even with Shimano skewers) this was years ago though.

The lower range of Specialized and Trek mountain bikes stil use skewers instead of bolt through 😬


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 10:20 am
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Cotic used to have closed dropouts on their road/gravel bikes in years gone by (you had to insert the skewer through a hole in each of the dropouts), I wonder how this compares to a standard qr and modern 15mm bolt though design.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 10:27 am
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Is this why ‘lawyers lips’ were invented?

Yes, and then people (according to legend) used to file them down so they could save a few seconds changing a tube if they had a flat mid-race.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 10:35 am
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"Yes, and then people (according to legend) used to file them down so they could save a few seconds changing a tube if they had a flat mid-race."

I'm not sure that's true I have lawyers lips on bikes older than anything mainstream having disk brakes.

I though they were because people not with the ken just used the qr lever to tighten the skewer spanner style.


 
Posted : 22/03/2024 12:49 pm

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