[Closed] Swinley - open for walkers

Probably a safety concern, as it'll be polluted with folk walking, cyclists are the easiest ones to stop, as the 'entitledest people in the world' - the dug walkers, listen to no one.

Safety of course is the answer.... I agree too. I think it'll take a bit of trail work so they may be getting it ready for re-opening.

I can't wait... i've still been paying my summit subscription for the past 2 months and can't wait to get jumping again.

Given the endless stream of ambulances peeling broken wobblers off the tracks, they have probably made a judgement call.

Just ride more interesting trails, elsewhere? 😉

Just ride more interesting trails, elsewhere?

Where's that then boss ? I'm curious to see as currently wouldn't mind something more exciting locally.

Sounds a bit strange and unfair really

the dug walkers, listen to no one.

Tru dat. The motorists of the forest, however they tend not to spangle themselves against a tree too often.

Go for a run or a walk instead?

I’m hoping for June, but accept that’s it’s more likely to be mid-Summer.

The CE have no love for MTB so won’t be in a rush to let us back in..

Where’s that then boss ?

Wales and the Scotland of course. Just ignore those boring restrictions. No one will notice.

Really local - Tunnel Hill, Beacon Hill/Caesers, Less local - Redlands, Peaslake, Ranmore, Leith, Netley Park.

The CE have no love for MTB so won’t be in a rush to let us back in.

Is there a bylaw that says they must have trails somewhere then ? If not, why do they ? Why did they allow the Summit ?

Really local – Tunnel Hill, Beacon Hill/Caesers, Less local – Redlands, Peaslake, Ranmore, Leith, Netley Park.

Plus Frith Hill, Porridgepot while the gates are still open, Yateley/Minley oh and Crowthorne woods too cos they're FC rather than CE. There's about a kerjillion miles of singletrack (without the orangey bits) within about 10 miles of the Lower Star Post

The original notification from CE was on 21st March

The Crown Estate Corona-19 Statement - High Risk Activity at Swinley Forest - MTB
All mountain bike trails in Swinley Forest are now closed. This decision has been taken to protect and safeguard all users and our staff.
With the full closure of The Look Out centre there are no hygiene facilities available.
In order to minimise the pressure on the NHS (by reducing the number of accidents on the trails, and therefore the number of ambulance callouts), by not riding the trails you are contributing to the national effort at this very difficult time.
We know how important fresh air and exercise is. Currently, the forest remains open for recreational use, other than the high risk activity of mountain biking. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation
@thecrownestate

Safety would be my guess too. Could be because they have no first aid on-site? I assume the hub and centre are all closed with reduced staff around.

Is there a bylaw that says they must have trails somewhere then ? If not, why do they ? Why did they allow the Summit ?

I can’t answer your first 2, but the Summit had been dug by volunteers. The CE just repurposed it.

Put it another way - if the trails didn’t already exist & a local scene too....do you think the CE would build The Summit & new trails? I don’t think they would.

Add to that the underhand way the Jump Gully was flattened.....yeah, no love for us from the CE..

Plus Frith Hill, Porridgepot while the gates are still open, Yateley/Minley oh and Crowthorne woods too cos they’re FC rather than CE. There’s about a kerjillion miles of singletrack (without the orangey bits) within about 10 miles of the Lower Star Post

Indeed. But not being local I’ve not been able to get to them.

Has Tunnel Hill recovered after the forestry works trashed them a few yrs ago?

Is there a bylaw that says they must have trails somewhere then ? If not, why do they ? Why did they allow the Summit ?

The trail center is just a formalized version of what was always there.

I think the problem is it became popular. A handfull of people buying a £10 pass from Gorrick to ride there was fine and paid for the insurance. Then more people started riding there, the magazines did ride guides, and before long the number of people with a permit was definitely a minority of the users.

So they made the trail center to make it insureable.

Then it got exponentially busier again.

TBH I felt a bit of sympathy for their situation untill they took over the running of Crowthorne and started imposing the same rules.

oh and Crowthorne woods too cos they’re FC rather than CE

Not any more.

So they made the trail center to make it insureable.

Why though ? If they don't like bikes, why do it at all ? Why not just lob a load of signs up saying "Cycling not allowed" and they don't need any insurance as you're trespassing anyway ?

[i/] ban cyclists?[/i]

Somehow this reminds me of those yanks protesting about their civil rights because action is being taken for their own safety.
Cyclists banned, to me, is a ****ing weird way of looking at it.

No idea, I presume it was to accommodate the demand. I dont think there was ever an expectation that it would become a tourist attraction, and it was supposed to stop the illegal trail digging.

I was sympathetic to them having to deal with the apparently ever increacing numbers of mouthy gobshites and litter that mountainbiking seems to bring. Untill they took over Crowthorne and closed the Circle Hill car park.

stop the illegal trail digging.

IIRC this was definitely an aim - what with parts of Swinley being SSSI.

tourist attraction

It does seem to have become a victim of its own success.

BUt if you blanket ban bikes, then stopping the digging/riding becomes infinitely easier no ?

It's then not a question of someone maybe being in the right area or not, or making a mistake. It's either yes or no.... if they're there, arrest them/throw them off... it's then self policing after a while.

My point is, by allowing the trails and allowing the Summit, they're clearly not THAT against cyclists, otherwise neither option would even exist ?

My point is, by allowing the trails and allowing the Summit, they’re clearly not THAT against cyclists, otherwise neither option would even exist ?

Think of prohibition.

It didn’t work, so sanctioning trails gives them control of it.

As I recall the Jump Gulley could have been saved - but it was knocked down in a way that the local MTB scene had no say in it. I can’t remember the exact story, but I heard it from a local advocate (whose no reason lie & I trust what he says). It was certainly, as I said, done in a somewhat underhand manor.

As I said - if the trails & scene didn’t already exist....do you think the CE would willingly build new ones? I think probably not..

but they did... Summit area... thats a fully new and dedicated built area with their consent.

but they did… Summit area… thats a fully new and dedicated built area with their consent.

Built by volunteers - no expense to the CE. It was part of the planned works by the Swinley Trail Team but they went all a bit rampageish. Fair play, they did do a good job..

Perhaps, I should have been more clear - do you think the CE would PAY for new trails & facilities if they didn’t already exist? Would they PAY for a trail network of 20ks? The bike hut was already there but empty.

As I said - prohibition doesn’t work. Best to work with & by extension control.

To answer the original question.  Rather than social distancing, the underlying reason for the the temporary banning of cycling was to relieve the burden on the NHS.  Over the course of a weekend there tends to be frequent ambulance visits tying up resources which does not look good for the CE.  Add a significant number of 'new to mtb' riders which have been created by the lockdown / increase in outdoor activity paradox, which in turn will likely have increase accident rates, it was probably a sensible decision at the time.  Pictures of an ambulance carting off another cyclist out of the forest just after the lockdown announcement did not help.

Of course this has not dampened the ongoing facebook warrior fervour with the 'it's not gnar, I've never fallen off my bike at Swinley' brigade continually moaning.  For all the negative press it gets, it would seem that many cannot seem to live without their weekend fix of 15 miles of ginge rather than see an alternative for a few months.

Swinley's had a long history of MTB and they'd struggle to ban it and police that. CE aren't a fan of it though but to them it does keep bikes in one spot and they can maintain their ban in a lot of their other properties (Swinley Park over other side of A322 for example, very much bikes forbidden, though horses fine. They patrol and kick out bikes).

The formal stuff was a response to liability issues, being sued by riders stacking it on unofficial features. Idea was formal network that could be controlled and supposedly everything else off limits (occasionally they have policed this, especially loam trail spots).

Permit didn't bring in much but paid for liability insurance. Just when the council decided to cash in on their lease of the car park, it wasn't practical to have permit plus parking charges.

The Summit is with agreement / lease effectively, but was strictly for coaching only. CE didn't want it to become a bike park.

Anyway, there's been talk that CE are getting fed up of violations during lock down and are considering shutting it all down to bikes permanently.

The total ban at the moment even just fire roads is perhaps OTT but to be honest people will then hit the trails, official or otherwise, if they know they're allowed in. They're doing that anyway though despite the ban.

Just gonna post this, again.......

No gnarr, I rode from my house, that trail is flat as a pancake, still broke my arm.

Dry dusty tails mean slippy, arms too straight, weight too far back, probably some daft xc 'fast tyre', rigid forks for less grip - Swiss cheese model is complete. 🙂

CE are getting fed up of violations during lock down and are considering shutting it all down to bikes permanently.

Will make a fair dent to Bracknell councils pocket!

FC in England detest mtb, yet in scotland its been the saviour for places like Innerleithen & Peebles, people going, staying and spending money. There is money to be made, but they just arn't interested in england, seems to be an inconvenience for them.

To add: trails were getting dug all over the place & often in environmentally sensitive areas (SSSI & a scheduled ancient monument being the victims); the Jump Gully may as well have had an ambulance on standby at the W/e’s; litigation issues.

We’re lucky to have it.

(And I know it’s ginge but there’s a lot more to the local area than just the ginge. About half of my lap (30k) is ginge, the rest is more natural trails. There do just happen to be some really quite fun sections mixed in with the cobbles..)

Anyway, there’s been talk that CE are getting fed up of violations during lock down and are considering shutting it all down to bikes permanently.

I’ve heard this rumour but think it’s unlikely - mainly for the reasons you outline for the existence of the current sanctioned trails. However, nothing would surprise me...

Latest update from Windsor Great Park on reopening the Swinley Car park. Note no mention of cycling nor the trails:

“ We are working with Bracknell Forest Council on the re-opening plan for the car park in Swinley Forest and completing the necessary safety inspections. We will post an update as soon as we have a confirmed date to re-open. ”

Positive....ish...

frequent ambulance visits

But with more cyclists now riding other places such as Tunnel Hill, Minley etc because Swinley is closed, doesn't that just mean the ambulances are going somewhere else??

"But with more cyclists now riding other places such as Tunnel Hill, Minley etc because Swinley is closed, doesn’t that just mean the ambulances are going somewhere else??"

That's one way of looking at it, but from CE's point of view they control what they can and have at least done their bit.  If fingers are pointed at least it is not at their door.

But with more cyclists now riding other places such as Tunnel Hill, Minley etc because Swinley is closed, doesn’t that just mean the ambulances are going somewhere else??

Not necessarily, since those likely to spanner themselves will perhaps lack the knowledge and confidence to venture further afield.

Have you asked the landowner for their justification?

Have you asked the landowner for their justification?

Presumably they will trot out what they have already said:

the forest remains open for recreational use, other than the high risk activity of mountain biking.

Can't see why they just don't just close the trails and let folk ride 'recreationally' on the fire roads.....

You could point them to other trails being re-opened in England, e.g. Gisburn & Whinlatter.

Both of those have more advanced trails, but possibly a lower injury rate.

Unless Spoony's been there this week, obvs.

😉

I could spanner myself on the road bike at a standstill, infact I did!

Almost stationary at a junction, patch of diesel on the road and I went down like a sack of bricks.

Note the nice long scar from the crash above 🤔

You could point them to other trails being re-opened in England, e.g. Gisburn & Whinlatter.

But run by different entities, CE creates their own policies.

Both of those have more advanced trails, but possibly a lower injury rate.

Swinley is located right on the edge of a major urban area and just off the M3/4.  As it is so accessible on a nice weekend it is heaving with a mix of families, weekend warriors, teenage senders, ebikers and everyone else in between.  Whilst the trails are easy for the experienced the surface can be slippery even in the dry and there is enough to get the inexperienced in trouble quickly, an innocuous fall on the armoured surface (as demonstrated by spoony) is a recipe for broken ones. Spend 30 minutes watching the tabletop at the bottom of Babymaker (which is located at the furthest point from the visitor centre) and in amongst the rippers you're bound to see a steady drip of riders getting into all sorts of trouble with shonky nose first landings and the odd OTB.

shonky nose first landings and the odd OTB

There will be some more of those now that the holiday diggers have made the 'drops of doom' more doom-ist.

Not been there for ages, but I thought they had been reshaped in the landing areas with lashings of ginge to make them easier, plus a proper chicken run put in?

(for the initiated the DoD are 2 step downs of around 1 - 2 ft with plenty of open run in and landing followed by a very low 'tabletop' without any real lip to boost off)

Razoo - I've ridden at Swinley a few times, I agree about the treacherous kitty litter (almost as perilous as Cannock's infamous pebbles), and about the mixed-ability clientele.

Yes it's a different owner, but pointing out that comparable venues have re-opened and stressing the wellbeing benefits of cycling is still probably the best negotiating tactic for those here wishing it to re-open. Perhaps with some targeted social media activity.

While the CE may be taking a bit of a selfish and discriminatory approach, I wouldn't ride there myself anyway - partly because I don't like it and partly because I'd get too annoyed by the inevitable groups ignoring the new "one other person" guideline.

for the initiated the DoD are 2 step downs of around 1 – 2 ft with plenty of open run in and landing followed by a very low ‘tabletop’ without any real lip to boost off)

More like 6-8 inches with an awkward run in. More like riding down steps than step downs.

Chapa - Yeah, I'm leaving it for a while.  More gutted that Rogate is not open at the moment as had just rediscovered that and I'm getting my distance up on the road so happy for my mtb to be more play oriented.

Now we have a bit more freedom I'm going to head up to Surrey Hills again, but take advantage of the light evenings to miss the weekend masses.

Spoony - agreed, in retrospect 2 ft is pushing it, but the run in is easy.

Depends how you ride it, the bit of the crest of the hill is a bit vague so unless you stop for a chat and check them out first its quite easy to just ride off into the woods either side in a lactic acid induced tunnel vision.

I just find them awkward, first one I struggle to manual, second one feels awkwardly soon after the first, it would (for me, IMO, etc) be easier if they just demolished the top one and the table top and just put in one decent sized drop off, or 2-3 options ranging from kerb to a foot + steeper downslope so you could just pick what you fancy.

Its actually easier just to lean back a bit, off the brakes and rattle down it at speed than to try and use any sort of technique.

A bit of speed before the set up run in and just a little pop/hop like Jedi would teach will have you over both no trouble.  A single multi sized drop and a proper tabletop with a roller and booster lip would be great, but will never happen.  Terrible blurred pic from a horrendously wet day a few years ago.

There's always the corkscrew and Gorrick trails, which I can't imagine are being patrolled in the evening...

lashings of ginge to make them easier,

The kidz have now removed the ginge and a bit more so they are more like 2ft now............

Swinley Bike Hub just posted an update on Facebook. Car parks remain closed. Loos remain closed. Cafe remains closed. Trails are OPEN

There’s always the corkscrew and Gorrick trails, which I can’t imagine are being patrolled in the evening…

Crowthorne is now managed by CE, so is off-piste and no longer exists, you understand?

Footage of social distancing at the top of babymaker

Babymaker today. Rubbish truck brought in to keep clearing it.