[Closed] Swinley lap under an hour?

23km/h

Maybe..... I'm about 36mins shy of that, so if you were an XC whippet then it's probably in range.

Not on a weekend, or when it's just rained I imagine

Labyrinth seems to take about an hour, that could just be me though

Im sure someone has. There is always someone faster. I remember doing Cwn Carn once pretty fast, or so I thought till I looked up the record. Its 38 mins FFS.

I cant even do the flat bit along the valley that fast, never mind the whole thing.

Trouble is when the weather improves they shut some trails for those bloody ground nesting birds. Without tank traps as they close that, it's been done at least on strava. With it all open it's not far off. Don't try on a weekend though it's a tad busy...

Hi. I'm 51, 102kg. Not that fit I just done it in 1hour 35mins in fairly muddy conditions, and I stopped a few times.But I do it for the buzz,time comes second So you might wanna get a bit fitter , and thinner tyres are a bit quicker, plus humidity can make a big difference. I suspect someone would of done it in an hour, but as u said , would have to be in week early or late in day. Best of luck doing it in an hour. I'll keep out of your way as you fly by me.

That'd be a stonking quick lap

It'll not be me that does it

@mb51 thinner tyres aren't quicker I've done a 1:24 on the Jumbo Jim's at 4.8" and a 1:27 on the Rocket Ron's 2.2". You're all right that Saturday is not the day to try, need a big horn to get the people out of the way in time! Hope they don't close any more bits soon, I need to get this done!

1:13 at 9am and 1:17 with some traffic on the second lap today. On Ron 2.1s.

sträva has 2 segments; 18.1 & 22.2 km, listed for red+blue - no idea which is current?

KOM on 18.1 km is 1:07 and 22.2 1:26.

1:00 possibly.

My riding buddy at Swinley has done it in 1.05, not when I'm slowing him down though!
He rides with another guy sometimes on a 22lb rigid niner who's even quicker than him though, so yes I'd say it can be done in under an hour.

Easily (pretty sure it had been done comfortably on Strava?).

I got as low as 1.10 years ago when the new trails were fairly new (so pre the new seagull bits), and was still being occasionally overtanken by propper XC whippets. That was on a rigid steel SS so there was more equipment derived speed to be had too.

I wonder if it would be quicker on a cross bike? It must save significant ammounts on the fire roads and stickler, but would probably struggle to maintain speed on deerstalker?

Should think I could do it. Blue warmup, blue red blue at decent pace with stops and chats is a chunk under 2hrs for me and my buddy. I seem to always go wrong somewhere on red though and never get a proper loop time.

akira - Member

Labyrinth seems to take about an hour, that could just be me though

Not just you

.... but it could just be us.

Not just you

.... but it could just be us.

that section is just not enjoyable at all

I think current Swinley in under an hour is a big ask!

On Strava KOM for a full loop (this year) is 1:08

Current one with Tank Traps at end of Red

https://www.strava.com/segments/13358122

Fastest STW'er appears to be Darren T @ 1:22

KOM on 18.1 km is 1:07 and 22.2 1:26.

1:00 possibly.

The 1:07 is a team mate of mine, surprised how slow that is for the KOM actually. Feels that 11mph average would be incredibly doable round there. I'm really surprised it's not faster. I wonder if there's something odd in the segments that means people don't usually pick up the "official" ones. I'd expect George Budd or Isaac Pucci to have done it.

I doubt that many people actually go there chasing the full loop KOM really...

I would be interested to see what the "perfect" swinley loop bike turns out to be, my head says lighter, rigid 29er with a bit of tyre girth, but I could well be wrong...

Budd and Pucci? Recognise those names, think hold most of the KOM's down the road on Chobham Common. Or at least did until a new local rider came in.

I did it last year when they opened tank traps again in 110.59 wasn't pushing it, on a s/s rigid. You gain some & loose some it's all fitness based over there, you can only push so far at 52 though...

Doesn't sound fun

On Strava KOM for a full loop (this year) is 1:08

It's March... give it a few months until it's warmer and faster. Definitely doable I say. Not by me, mind!

My best time for both combined is 1:07, so maybe 1:12 allowing for extra tiredness if I did do both at once (I come in a different route so theres no strava lap for where I start and finish). I would not be surprised if someone like Isaac would take that apart and go under 1 hour, but that would be a small group.

Feels that 11mph average would be incredibly doable round there

There's a lot of segements where it massively underestimates the distance and are hard to maintain speed on. Even what feels like a quick lap of Stickler or Labrynth is unlikely to appear in double digits.

I doubt that many people actually go there chasing the full loop KOM really...

I would be interested to see what the "perfect" swinley loop bike turns out to be, my head says lighter, rigid 29er with a bit of tyre girth, but I could well be wrong...

I spent a summer chasing a 1 hour lap fruitlessly on a rigid SS 29er. I think like most things a FS 29er would be quickest simply because the lack of suspension lost a few bike lengths every corner in the labrynth and there aren't the long steep climbs where a hardtail would pull ahead. Something like an Anthem, Spark, Epic, Scalpel etc.

I could do a lap of the car park in under an hour!

There's a lot of segements where it massively underestimates the distance.

Nope, think it's pretty spot on.

Segment numbers - Full Loop 2016 Autumn = 22.9km

My Garmin recorded 21.4km for a full loop..

cookeaa

I would be interested to see what the "perfect" swinley loop bike turns out to be, my head says lighter, rigid 29er with a bit of tyre girth, but I could well be wrong...

I think it'd be a 100mm FS 29er, because the rear suspension lets you stay sat down and pedal hard through the chop that tends to define a lot of swinley lap. No, it's not mega rough, but there are plenty of bits where you need to unweight the saddle a bit on a HT, where you could stay sat down on a FS, and hence keep pedalling.

I'd reckon super light 29er hardtail or FS, which will depend on the rider, but for a sub hour lap you'll not be sitting down all that much!

Reckon a Spesh Epic 29er was made for Swinley fast laps* 😀

(if it's Sunny tomorrow and stays dry between now and tomorrow I might go over and see if I can set a time)

*i don't have an Epic

Yep, or a Top Fuel/Spark/Anthem etc. Although as it is smooth I suspect a hardtail would probably be as quick.

There seems to be quite a few Swinley loop segments on Strava so it'll depend on which one you're talking about.

There was one where I managed a 1.04 or 1.06 for a full lap, possibly last year, but I don't know what the segment name was. That segment had a KOM time of something like 56 minutes.

Sub 1:10 last year without Tank Traps and the new red bits was quite do-able for a STW chubber 😆

I think you're all confirming what I thought, I need another bike! I don't have a full sus in the stable hence my appalling lap time

Although as it is smooth

While there's no real rough stuff, I reckon being able to sit down and push a gear on the 'cobbles' on a FS would be more efficient than being on a HT that'll skip and skitter over them.

Based on my experience on sections like the flat bits from USP to the boundary with Crowthorne and on to the green gate, where on a HT / SS I always end up feeling like I've had a jackhammer shoved up my arse.

(OK, what I *imagine* that'd feel like)

[edit - and 1:18 when I was younger, fitter and lighter, so my experience is probably irrelevant compared to a race whippet on a carbon HT who'd ride it all standing up]

side issue - who do we think is THE fastest Swinley rider. Budd and Pucci are definitely up there, what about Steve James?

That 1.22 involved a bit of waiting around for my mate and a couple of chats on the boring stretches.

I'm on a scale and he is on a spark. I'd say a 100m FS is the way to go, my lower back starts to hurt as even though it is not proper rough it isn't smooth either. Some of the times through labyrinth are insane, the other day I didn't make a single mistake, no poor lines and put down power whenever I could and still miles off the fastest time. Co e to the conclusion that I personally can't go much quicker through there, it's not my legs that are holding me back, and I'm pretty decent at handling a bike to. Must be digital epo...

Yesterday my laps were in my 100mm carbon HT. although I didnt feel it at the time, I feel battered today.

I ran Rons at 24psi and on the Blue trail - I thinks it's Laberynth - I had a few drifting moments on those cobbles. I don't like that section, there's no "flow" at pace as the turns are too tight / close together for me.

side issue - who do we think is THE fastest Swinley rider. Budd and Pucci are definitely up there, what about Steve James?

Obvs me, having held the KOM on Red 15/The Big Dipper for coming up 4 years 8)

Total pro.

Hob Nob - Member
Obvs me, having held the KOM on Red 15/The Big Dipper for coming up 4 years

Total pro.

I'm not sure it's as fast as it used to be, but if your KOM time is the 51 seconds then chapeau! A good 15 seconds faster then me...

Some parts eg deerstalker labyrinth red 15 were all quicker when they were fresh, so a time from 2014 isn't really comparable with a time set this year. That's my excuse for being miles off my PR, let alone the KOM.

The trick with the Labyrinth is having the ability to carry speed round all those corners! Good technique here trumps pedalling power any day imo! Make sure you are looking up, planning your lines at least 2 corners early, use the berms, pump every berm and lump, and your average speed climbs markedly.

Alternatively, use the Strava cheat line that lops off about 1/3 of the turns...... 😆

I think bike geomeis a factor in labyrinth. You need to be able to change the bike's direction a lot and quickly whilst still on the power. I did it three times a week as part of a commute two years ago on rigid and I got to know exactly how to skirt the rough bits.

FS might not be perfect, as I think there are probably bits where you might have to avoid pedal strikes. I was on the power all the time on the rigid bike, but standing up.

I reckon a plus bike would be fastest.

Plus bike fastest ?

Really, wouldn't the undamped tyres ping you off each root/bump. Or the bigger tyre be draggy.

I would have thought normal tyres plus good FS, set up properly would win every time. Better traction, less fatigue, better power to trail transfer.

Agree with maxtorque its technique that gets through the labrynth quickly, that and "shut up legs". The corners are tight, and modern bikes are rubbish on that trail, what you want is something like a 45650b with a taller bb, longer chainstays and 68-69 head angle that you can really flick round the corners, power up the climbs but with 130mm of suspension to keep controll down the braking bumps into corners.

Plus/fat is fun. But I think traditional XC race paper thin 2.0 tyres will win every time round swinley.

It's all very well being fast down the labyrinth but if you have to push it up jobber hill your time on the loop won't matter. As I said, it's fitness= average speed.

Are we confusing Labyrinth with Stickler?

Stickler is Blue10 very flat with berms and ends with the bridge over the log

Labyrinth is the twisty tight rooty up & down Red after Deerstalker (down bit) Red20

I love labyrinth plus red 15 and agree the older bikes are better for labyrinth. I very rarely do the exact loop as I tend to cut off the sloppy sections and loop the fun bits. I did pick up a Kom on 15 depending. on which segment you look at but it's probably long gone.

Ok challenge apart, why would you to want to do this? It requirees riding some of the very dull/gloppy bits and missing some of the best bits. Seems like a poor choice of spending the CP fee IMO.

I actually enjoy a lap of Swinley, it sort of lets me know where my fitness is

I also enjoy missing out fire-road and going off piste and making my own way round

Depends on mood

teamhurtmore - Member
Ok challenge apart, why would you to want to do this?

Suppose it's like trying to smash out a fast lap of the Black, Red or Blue at Llandegla. It's harder now than it was 3 years ago as the big first climb isn't as smooth and the Blue is a lot rougher. Also a load of the trees have goes to shelter you from the perpetual head wind.

side issue - who do we think is THE fastest Swinley rider. Budd and Pucci are definitely up there, what about Steve James

They're all equally quick on their day. Steve doesn't live locally any more, Isaac took a break from riding for a couple of years, although he's now back, George isn't riding as much. Ben Thomas is in there too, just doesn't use Strava. I'd say there is no definitive quickest rider. Unless Nino Schurter is about!

Ok challenge apart, why would you to want to do this? It requirees riding some of the very dull/gloppy bits and missing some of the best bits. Seems like a poor choice of spending the CP fee IMO.

Because even the off piste diversions get reppettative so its nice to just smash out laps with something to focus on beyond the trail itself.

And being local I don't pay for the car park anyway.

Why couldn't you do a flat out lap and then bimble a bit? What if you only had an hour? Perfectly valid use of time to me!

So here's my suggested 'alt' lap of Swinley

Car Park
Green
Spit out of green early onto FR
Blue 2 then 3 then 4
Right out of 4 onto Watsons wander
Down to Mordor (excursion into CW option)
Seagull to LSP
Backup to Stickler for Men
Manhole
Down to Gully
Up from Gully
Red15
Camel climb
Baby stalker
Back on red / blue to Car park

Last year bought a 9yr old Epic frame and built it up nice and light specifically for bashing around Swinley. Those undulating tarmac cobble bits are hard going on a 30lb slackline.

Can I just clarify what we're talking about when we say 'cobbles'?

Are they the man made trails prevalent on the early Blue sections (large pebbles packed in sand?)

If so, I [i]hate[/i] those sections. Not because they're difficult - any fool can ride them. I just feel I should be 'flying' on them but just can't. My Anthem feels like Bambi on ice on them, just a slight line error and off-camber slide results.

The loamy sections are just much better

Or my fatbike, grip a plenty but it rarely 'flies'

I follow the route because I don't know the area, I only get there maybe twice a year and there is always something a bit different. I have a morning and it takes an hour to drive there, so have about 2hrs of riding time. Don't want to faff about getting lost.

I reckon you are right about labyrinth I reckon my old charge duster with narrow bars would probably be quicker through there than my wide barred 29er.
My fastest time is 8mins on the longer segment and the kom is 6 mins. Normally I'm well within the top 5-10% of the leaderboard. Miles off this one. Maybe it's that short cut...?

Can I just clarify what we're talking about when we say 'cobbles'?

(large pebbles packed in sand?)

Yes

My Anthem feels like Bambi on ice on them, just a slight line error and off-camber slide results.

Thats the ones

Tiger6791 - Member

Can I just clarify what we're talking about when we say 'cobbles'?

(large pebbles packed in sand?)

Yes

My Anthem feels like Bambi on ice on them, just a slight line error and off-camber slide results.

Thats the ones

So I'm not the only one then?

Same. That first bit of the blue is awful, I always feel like I'm riding like a complete muppet (I often am), only to find it all gets markedly better once off that stuff!

Those of you thinking an old bike with skinny tyres and narrow bars is better in Labrynth I can confirm it's not the case. I have a Big Ed with 4.8" JJs and 740 bars and set my PR in there. Tried with my Kilauea on 2.0" mountain King and a traditional straight narrow bar and was minutes slower. Both similar spec with the Kilauea being a few KG lighter. Both have front suspension, if you still consider Judy SL to be suspension. I get more travel from my fat tyres! The Kilauea was something like 10-15 minutes slower for the lap despite having barends!

Sunny here today, day off tomorrow

If it stays sunny and dry then I may see how long it takes me to do a lap flat out

Good luck!
Rode it this afternoon and it felt sticky and slow although I was on a 34lb bike from the nineties.

Just enjoyed the sunshine and ran 26km so doubt I'll even look at bike tomorrow now

Here it is, my July 2013 lap, 1:10:52. I had to unhide the segments to get this "Full loop". It wasn't the fastest back then but crucial to me was it being 1 minute quicker than my mate. Pain is long gone but glory continues, gleefully reignited by this thread. I'm no xc whippet, the smoothness of the fresh trails back then probs saved at least 5 mins off what i could manage today.
My mate Dave is KOM for that segment now, he might be a contender for fastest swinley rider as gets there fairly often as its near his work.

https://www.strava.com/activities/69508812/segments/3383281406
Dave's time is 58~. This segment is 21km so if its 22 now 1 hour is going to be really tough. GFI.

Right, I managed a 1:19:31 today which means there are 12 people I now have deep respect for on Strava (although most did their laps before the pool was installed at Red2...)
I really don't think I'll improve a whole lot on that, perhaps a minute or two in the dry and when the roots get covered a bit. My lungs nearly fell out so I don't think I could have done much better.
4th this year though, not doing terribly 🙂

That said, with a new bike...

If digger95 segment is correct then my PB is 1.12.45 from about 3 years ago, that's assuming I've read it right....!

I'm curious if I could go faster..

Right, I managed a 1:19:31 today

Good work! Takes some doing to break 1:20 😀

Followed the link, apparently i've done a 1.19 at some point in 2013. Never actually tried to do a full loop at pace so judging by when it was, it would have been a quick lunchtime blat.

Curious to see how much faster I could go. Maybe i'll give it a whizz over spring one day 🙂

I fall asleep after half an hour on the cobbles. Would never make it to an hour.

Barely done the full loop since it opened. Still take in the nice sections though, but rarely over there these days. Checked out the drop of doom though few weeks back... and the table 😆

Deadkenny have you tried riding faster? A lot of the people I overtake look bored too but I've never had that problem 🙂

Just gonna leave this here...;)
[img] [/img]

Looks like you get to keep that

Ground nesters must be back as Tank Traps has been closed.

I believe second place is our own DT78.

On one hand I'm in the top 10 of that table (now that I've joined the group but not in that screenshot) so that feels ok. On the other hand, I'd have to work pretty damn hard to get near lustyd's time!

Also I've just spotted that the group is only 15 people large, so my sense of accomplishment is diminishing rapidly.

To Ben fair that's filtered to only show forum members in the group, only 15 have chosen to "enter" this "race". Everyone can come first with the right filter...

I don't think I ever managed the whole loop in one go as I've always got the kid with me and this always seems to entail doing 1-2 runs at least twice.

We were making good time yesterday right up to the drop offs and table top... then we ended up spending a good 30 minutes doing the drop offs.. then after Labyrinth we went back up and had to do axle run ...

As to the best bike ??? Hard one as I know a few places my 27.5 with wider bars is slower than the 7yr olds 24... but then the fireroad parts would be eaten up by a fast 29er...

All that said it's way more fun for me on my heavier and slower trail bike than my carbon HT....

Right, I pushed on a bit today and came home a few seconds above the hour:

[url= https://www.strava.com/segments/14543361 ]Swinley full loop minus tank traps[/url]

Following the signs, this is the full Swinley loop minus the tanks traps (bird nesting season so its closed). Sub hour is easy enough as I missed a few course markers. May try it again during the week.

Bike: 2017 Top Fuel. Tyres: XR3 rr, 29-1 frt.

Fourth place is yours truly. Don't think I was trying overly hard so might need to go back and give it some welly!