[Closed] Swinley forest

I dream of having somewhere as interesting as Swinley local to me. Bloody Herts/Cambs flat lands 🙁

Even flat out they require no braking

Arf!

I always get my days off down the week and used to practically have the place to myself, I never actually went there at the weekend.

I feel the need for a sexyparty so those naysayers can show off their owsumz skillz to us mere mortals.

And can we tempt Yeti and PhilConsequence and his tattoos out?

to which the honest answer has to be

The honest answer for those people is it is crap. Nothing wrong with that. Its for for the OP and others to look at those answers and then those from others to decide whether it is worth it.

Personally I would say it is worth a trip especially if a mate really wants to meet there. Get them to put you up and have beer and food afterwards.

From a pure riding viewpoint its not high on my list to revisit but its fun enough for a day out.  May give it another go if everything turns to mud again.

Bloody Herts/Cambs flat lands

Aston hill or Woburn get good reviews depending on your type of riding.

Plus if you get into the Hertford area although its bitty and short some not bad stuff there.

Maybe I'm being overly harsh then, or viewing it with whatever the opposite of rose-tinted spectacles is!

Might find a quiet couple of hours and give it another chance..

Disconnect your brakes first, and make an attempt on JoeFM's stack of KoM's. Film it so we can see how you get round the labyrinth rooty hairpins 'flat out'.

thisisnotaspoon

I feel the need for a sexyparty so those naysayers can show off their owsumz skillz to us mere mortals.
And can we tempt Yeti and PhilConsequence and his tattoos out?

That's the spirit ...

I'd drive 1hr 5mins for one of those 😆

First time I went to Swinley I pulled over half way round Stickler to let someone pass. He was going about as fast as I would be downhill, flying out of the rollers and into the corners.

Sounds like it could have been joefm, except he seemed like he was enjoying himself.

Disconnect your brakes first, and make an attempt on JoeFM’s stack of KoM’s. Film it so we can see how you get round the labyrinth rooty hairpins ‘flat out’.

Hey, I never claimed to be fast.. 😉 Anyone who I've ridden with would testify to that..

I never claimed to be fast

There's your answer - go faster (flat out, no brakes is the recommendation), and you'll be transported into the magical world of funswinley* 😉

Kind of like BTTF, but with bikes.

* or the A&E dept of Frimley Park

Sounds like it could have been joefm, except he seemed like he was enjoying himself...

...and was riding a bike. 😉

Brilliant thread now.... 🙂

Film it so we can see how you get round the labyrinth rooty hairpins ‘flat out’.

I have been thinking about trying some sports photography so would be happy to help.

I’d drive 80 minutes for a sexy party .

I just spent a great morning over there today. Blue/Red/crowthorne Woods/Barosa/Red/Blue

loved it, didn’t set the world on fire, only met two other bikes.

I’m 55, get out now and again and live 30mins away so it’s perfect for me.

Just saying 🙂

It's one of the few trail centres I've been to I really liked all the big swoopy bomb hole type bits, as it's so manicured you pick up speed very quickly. I liked this bit where there are 3 downhill trails starting from one point, what's that called? I think my problem with it comparing it to Cannock Chase is the Swinley tries to hard to make a trail rather than following the flow of the land, Cannock was also a lot more beaten up with breaking bumps you could launch off. The good bits at Swinley with the big berms are good fun though and like anywhere a couple of mates are going to have a laugh.

What are these Welsh trail centres like? I presume more rocky than manicured?

I love it when people say they hate Swinley;stay away then,we don’t need you.

The ‘old’ Swinley was amazing but then people pissed and moaned that they could never find a route without a local.

Then they built some trails.

‘Can do everything there on a single speed hardtail road bike etc etc ‘ well then go for it, have a crap day.

Can’t win.

I love it there, and would happily show someone from anywhere in the world around the trails. Especially a mate.

I remember when you could ride the ancient fort that we are not allowed to ride on now,(showing my age ) edit again, nobody knew it was an ancient fort until was discovered by people in the know)

We make the best of Swinley and I’m bloody glad it’s on my doorstep.

I like Swinley purely for the fact that it's one of the few places in the South East which is still ridable in the depths of winter. Any non-trail centre riding near me is just a complete mudfest with extra slippery chalk/flint.

It's the same reason I'll be riding Bedgebury and other places this winter. Not sure how Surrey hills rides when it's wet but I'll probably look to do a guided day there just so I don't spent 5 hours lost...

To be honest, i live less than half a mile from the entrance to swinley, but since learning my way around peaslake etc i have probably ridden there twice in about 4 years? Personally i think the man made surface isnt great in the dry, and in the wet it seems to reduce your drivetrain to dust in about 5 miles.

i dont buy the whole "you arent riding fast enough" arguement either, trails dont need to be fast to be fun, they just need to be fun. though i do see the appeal to families or groups where people may have slightly less experience, due to the easily mapped out trails etc.

I just spent a great morning over there today. Blue/Red/crowthorne Woods/Barosa/Red/Blue

loved it, didn’t set the world on fire, only met two other bikes.

I’m 55, get out now and again and live 30mins away so it’s perfect for me.

Yeah if you get there mid week or really early or evenings it can be very pleasant.  It's also a good place when it's chucking it down.

Otherwise it's usually packed.... often with riders going so slowly you'll need brakes on the uphills as well.  (Especially when they suddenly stop).  Quite often the density of beginners is so high you wait until they are far enough ahead to let you have a good run to where you calculate you'll be able to pass then a new group appears and goes in front of you...or you have to go early and catch the ones in front then have to crawl behind.

(When I say crawl I am usually with my lad...)

OR you can look for some off-piste... but no-one will tell you where it is so you potentially spend most of the time looking for it, if the OP's mate knows then it would be OK but if not then weekends it's like often the M25.

i dont buy the whole “you arent riding fast enough” arguement either, trails dont need to be fast to be fun, they just need to be fun.

What you said is true, BUT that doesn't change the fact that Swinley is much more fun (and technical) the faster you go.

What are these Welsh trail centres like? I presume more rocky than manicured?

Cwmcarn yes, Afan not so much, Llandegla and Brechfa definitely not.

Anyway the OP is going to have to go to Swinley now just to see for himself, I think 🙂

How about another STW Swinley meet up? I always get lost so good to have a local lead the way, especially the off-piste stuff.

Fast doesn't make Swinley cobbles more fun. It's just masochistic.

Has it's charms though, but I date back to pre-gingerfication when the majority of my route would involve soft, some loam and a few roots. In fact if I go there these days... it still does 😉

Of the full official blue/red, I think I've only done it three or four times since it opened.

Swinley has a love-hate element for me as that's where I started properly off-roading and do thank it for getting me in to riding, and does have fun bits. Rode there for couple of years and then was introduced to Surrey Hills and then different game entirely. Realised also that climbing fitness was going nowhere round Swinley. Came on loads climbing the hills of Surrey. Tunnel Hill, Caesars and other places also take far higher precedence than going to Swinley. Even xc-ing round Frensham/Farnham/Puttenham. In fact I prefer that kind of thing and exploring to trail centres these days anyway.

As a Bird owner I can't entirely hate Swinley given the "Born in Swinley" sticker on it 😀 (though being a Zero, it's rough as hell on the cobbles there ).

How about another STW Swinley meet up?

Last one was arranged by Weeksy, who didn't turn up. It rained, I died, etc. But I'd be up for another one! 😀

I'd be up for one. Never managed to wake up in time for the last few

The hub do a Thursday night ride.

It starts at 7pm though, so I have never managed to pull my finger out and get there in time...

Couldn't make it to the last one, but the STW Swinley Snowduro edition back in March was fun. I'd be game for another group ride.

The snow was pretty good fun and the route was great. I really haven'y been out much lately so will be hanging on at the back if we arrange something. Still would like to do another though.

It starts at 7pm though

That would kind of exclude the 2 hours there and back folk... 😉

<div class="bbp-reply-author">deadkenny
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Has it’s charms though, but I date back to pre-gingerfication when the majority of my route would involve soft, some loam and a few roots. In fact if I go there these days… it still does

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Gingercist!

Forgot about the 'black bit' in the trees.  So that's two/three braking points?

None of the ginger surfaced track needs any thought whatsoever.

I did turn up to the one before that in the snow though 🙂

I'm more than happy to arrange another. See incoming thread in 2.

Yo! 😀

(Can you entitle it "The Swinley is Boring Meetup" please)

Forgot about the ‘black bit’ in the trees.  So that’s two/three braking points?

None of the ginger surfaced track needs any thought whatsoever.

You should come along if weeksy organises a group ride, bring protection though we don't all want to get pregnant being in the same space as your awesomeness.

(Can you entitle it “The Swinley is Boring Meetup” please)

Needs more alliteration

None of the ginger surfaced track needs any thought whatsoever.

Well given that it's killed at least one person, I would disagree.

It's what you make it.  If you trundle it's rubbish.  If you're fit and fast it's good.

 If you’re fit and fast it’s good.

No, it's still rubbish. 🙂

would rather stay in bed than ride Swinley.  been a few times as I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt first time round.......nope it was still as dull.

Fine if it's on your door step I guess but wouldn't travel any distance for it.

It’s what you make it.  If you trundle it’s rubbish.  If you’re fit and fast it’s good.

But if your totes amazeballs boom gnarly sick to the power of rad then it's just a waste of your tyre rubber.  Just ask Joe

Thread revival - further thoughts on Swinley, as the first (and only) time I rode there before today was a year ago when I didn't even have my own bike and had only just started getting back into MTB. Now that I've ridden a few more trails, both trail centres and decently built trails in woods, I've got a more rounded opinion. First some pics:

Oct 28th, 2017, on a hire Marin budgetcoilnodropperhardtail:

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And today, on my own Vitus Escarpe:

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For me, Swinley is a 1hr 15min drive, is it worth it? After today, no.

I did the whole blue, red, then blue - I know there's off-piste but I'm not into jumping and this is a review of the main trails.  The surface causes half the issues there, most of the blue route really needs resurfacing, and not with the cobblestone stuff. It saps momentum at every opportunity, there's holes everywhere and it's not going to get any better as the sand washes away and leave the cobbles behind. The blue route has potential to be a decent flow trail, but you can't keep up any flow unless you like your HR at 170-180+ all the time, which for me just isn't fun. Make it more open and flow better with the ability to get some speed, and with a smooth surface, and it would be soooo much better.

Aside from the surface, it seems like there's been a requirement to get as much trail as physically possible with not much thought for flow or rhythm. There's a few sections where it's a climb, that's fine. Then 20m later it's a sharp descent for 10m, then a sharp climb, and repeat over and over. Or sections where off to the right is a really nice vally, you think 'oh, here we go...' only to find the trail goes downhill for all of 30m, then back up, then down a bit more, and finally a 20m short descent, and you end up popping out onto the fire road halfway up the valley. Much elevation, little use. Now, I get there's not much elevation, but it's not been used effectively. The amount of pedalling required is just so OTT as well, you could probably make half the red trail into new blue sections and leave the red with the proper climbs and descents.

I know they've recently re-built the babymaker trail and tabletop, but not all of us are into breaking arms/legs/jaws/collarbones... 😀 And the 'new' drops (can't remember which section they're on) aren't great, you cant get much speed up and they have the lip on them which bucks you upwards.

My local trail centre is Bedgebury, and I can now confirm it's better than Swinley. No momentum and energy sapping surface, the same elevation gain for a few less miles, and half the time to complete it (I can do Bedgebury in under an hour) and although it's not exactly mountainous there's a handful of really good sections which are fun and worth repeating. Swinley has maybe 2 sections on the red, and the 'final' descent on the blue which are good fun.

I'd rather pay the yearly membership to Bedgebury, it's a 40 mile round trip vs 120 and 45 minutes away, I'll use there as my winter trail centre knowing that it can be ridden in all weathers.

So yeah, sorry about the thread revival - but unless it's for a group ride I don't see myself going back to Swinley any time soon. That's my thoughts now I've actually got some experience as a mountain biker. On a plus, the parking is cheap! 😀

Interesting! I rode there for the first time in 6 years yesterday and had a great time!

I used to ride there every week (10 years ago). I fell out of regular riding when the first two kids came along, then they terraformed it and I found it had lost its magic - then the third kid came along and it was game over!  I stuck to only night rides in the Surrey Hills for the last few years - I like the open spaces and generally more natural trails.

However, with a day off yesterday and a morning free to ride I thought I’d give Swinley a go for old times sake. It makes me realise how important it is to have some variety in your riding. I can ride up and down Box and Leith hills all day - but actually felt more tired than I have for ages at Swinley (probably for the reasons you outlined above). It showed me how unused to constant pedalling I am - and I had to think a bit to clear some of the features, (made a right meal of the Labrynth too).

So, I think there is definitely a place for it - maybe not at the weekend though - I suspect I would spend more time letting people past me than riding!

P.S. those ‘new’ drops (the only really big ones) were too much for me! I was glad to take the ‘diversion’.

P.P.S. It sounded like my rear suspension was bottoming out by the end of the ride - which would be fine - if I had rear suspension...

If the flatter sections had more flow and a better surface it would be so much better, you only have to look at places like Leeds urban bike park:

Or the new QECP Blue section:

to see how a great blue route can be. You don't need much evelation change, just a bit along with some well places berms/rollers and a nice smooth surface.

Granted, Swinley is good for improving fitness, this was my HR data for the ride today:

[img] [/img]

Average of 169 and that was only because of the few rests I needed to get the HR down a bit! It would have been mid-170's average if I had no rests!

The drops are OK, I'm fine with drops of a couple of foot so long as they're well designed. The ones at bedgebury are the same, short run up and lip pointing upwards which is the last thing you want when you're going slow!

Couple of foot? Those drops are at least a couple of meters! In fact - the longer I looked at them - the bigger they got - might have been 5 meters by the time I carried on down the trail 😉

On a plus note - I found I can still roll all of babymaker without fear of leaving the ground (and there were no teenagers s****ing at me this time - I guess they all grew up and had to get jobs by now.

Tank traps confused me - I’m sure there used to be a forest there - looks like the surface of the moon now!

Looking at those stats did you take a bike or run round?

Looking at those stats did you take a bike or run round?

I'll admit I'm not the fittest of people, but yeah the average speed is slow, mainly due to a lack of anything resembling momentum through the cobblestone puddle and pothole-fest that is most of the blue and red route! :p

It can be draggy, esp given how moist it’s been but are you really complaining about potholes, riding a full suss bike with big knobblies off road?

Yes, because I love a bit of 'gnar' - roots/rocks etc that can be taken at a bit of speed, or technical sections. But this is neither - it's (mainly) the blue route on which the surface has broken down, and that combined with the cobbles make what should be a smooth, flowy trail into a slow, boring, hard work, mess.

Just to add, these are my thoughts and obviously some people love it there - but for me, as I have another all weather trail centre that's got a better surface, just as much descending/climbing but in a shorter distance, and is closer, Swinley loses to it. Bedgebury is pretty far from the pinnacle of MTB trails, and some people will hate it, but it's the best (only!) place guaranteed to be ridable through winter here, as any 'natural' trails just turn to a flint, chalky, muddy mess. (Still yet to see how Surrey Hills rides after days of rain). It's a shame the parking/annual cost is so high, but it's only 18 miles away so vs swinley at £25 per visit (fuel + £2 parking) the annual £87 membership with use of the bike wash isn't so bad. Go 8 times per year and it's cheaper than Swinley.

Swinley is chattery by the standards of some trail centers, but its not that bad, I'm quite happy on a rigid bike. They're limited to the ginger cobbles as the material has to come from within the forest and the whole area is made of that alluvial sand/pebbles.

Rode GT last month and even that's no longer quite the big bmx track it once was.

As always, if you find Stickler boring, try riding it at ten tenths.

It's not worth £25, where are you driving from South Wales?!

The surface is fine when it's new, the newish blue last downhill section is great, one of the best bits IMO - likewise red 25, those are great. It's the flat sections where the water has nowhere to go where the surface has gone to crap.

Stickler, that's the last but one red section, right? Before you go down the fire road to 'tank traps'? If so, I just kept thinking 'when does it end?!?!?!' on that section. My fitness is not good enough to ride that at five tenths, let alone 10.

Ha, not south Wales, why the hell would I drive to Swinley if I lived in south wales!? 😛

Maidstone, Kent. 60ish miles down the M20/M25/M3, so 120 mile round trip which for me at 30mpg (3.0l AWD car) is £23, plus the £2 parking.

The blue route has potential to be a decent flow trail, but you can’t keep up any flow unless you like your HR at 170-180+ all the time

I'd agree with that.  As I said earlier, it gets better the faster you ride it, and the converse is also true - ridden slowiy the blue at least isn't great.  But I actually enjoy how hard it is to keep flow, because it makes for a great physical workout.  A bit like lifting heavy weights off the ground - it's hard, but satisfying.

I rode it a lot on a rigid bike a couple of years ago, and yes it was rough - but I started to learn all the lines for the bad bits so I didn't have to slow down.  Of course, we all have different skill and speed levels and we are free to like or hate any trail, all our subjective opinions are valid.  Mostly though I take exception to the people who consider themselves good riders but say Swinley is too easy to be fun 🙂

My fitness is not good enough to ride that at five tenths, let alone 10.

Stickler is designed to be ridden fast, and test your pumping/ berm  riding skills and to get as much trail as possible into the small space they are allowed to build on.

I have the same issue as you, I can do some of it properly, but usually I’m blowing out my arse by the shortcut and take a rest.

Stickler, that’s the last but one red section, right? Before you go down the fire road to ‘tank traps’

Stickler is one of the last blue trails, pancake flat with lots of berms and a bridge, fun fast but dull bimbled.

I think I know the red trail you mean and I don’t like it either, short annoying climb at the start.

I ride there a lot but Its usually on my way home from work, so as you say it’s a cracking workout. A few repeats of the trails around Clubhouse, (Labyrinth, Deerstalker etc) a couple of runs on Red 15, absolutely none of the off piste near it obviously and you can cut out the bits you don’t like to save the legs a bit.

I usually include the bits I’m not keen on for the excercise as it’s still better than being on the road

Ahh, yes - blue 10. There's a point where the trails converge and you can go sharp right which cuts out a fair bit of the trail, that's where I ended up going today. That was one of the sections, I seem to remember, that wasn't holding up too well under the water.

Stickler is designed to be ridden fast, and test your pumping/ berm riding skills and to get as much trail as possible into the small space they are allowed to build on.

Was designed to make the most out of crap all for Gorrick races (I believe) with berms on the flat chucked in. Has to be pedalled fast to make them work rather than testing your skills and providing berms to flow at speed. Tedious. And used to be a trap for pools of water.

Disagree deadkenny.

I don't particularly enjoy Stickler as I'm too old and unfit to give it 10/10 to get the most from it.

However it takes a very fit and very competent rider to post a top time round Stickler. It's not 'Enduro' or 'Gnar' (obviously - it's flat!!) just a different type of off road ability. To be faster round Stickler I'd get more benefit from being a 'better rider' than from improving my fitness

Ta11pau1.

Thing is about this sport in my opinion is that you get more out of it as you get fitter. Places like Bedge and Swinley are way more fun when you’re going fast and then can get even more exhillarating if you get really fast. Neither trail centre is much cop done at a bimble but both can be a hoot done flat out.

There’s rideable natural stuff near you by the way, but winter will always involve a fair bit of mud.

As always, if you find Stickler boring, try riding it at ten tenths.

As said before, nope, still boring.

Swinley are way more fun when you’re going fast and then can get even more exhillarating if you get really fast.

Nope, they really arn't. But we're all different.

I have ridden at Swinley pre and post the ginger and given the limitations of the terrain and ownership still think its a good venue for the area.

The issue with the blue trails is their erosion and the lack of maintenance on the bits between features. When 1st opened there was a lot more flow, now the cobbles make it less rewarding esp on a hardtail (however much effort/speed you put in).

I think its a shame that lots of effort went into the over ambitious free ride area to cater for a minority, rather than more basic maintenance and improvements that would have benefited the majority...

Ta11pau1.

Thing is about this sport in my opinion is that you get more out of it as you get fitter. Places like Bedge and Swinley are way more fun when you’re going fast and then can get even more exhillarating if you get really fast. Neither trail centre is much cop done at a bimble but both can be a hoot done flat out.

Agreed, but I still think trail centres should be fun even if you're not super fit and can do the 12 miles at a constant 9/10ths.

There’s rideable natural stuff near you by the way, but winter will always involve a fair bit of mud.

Yep, only problem as you say is mud. There's some local singletrack within a few miles of me but it turns into a flinty muddy mess over winter. Same for the (excellent) trails at Friston forest.

The issue with the blue trails is their erosion and the lack of maintenance on the bits between features. When 1st opened there was a lot more flow, now the cobbles make it less rewarding esp on a hardtail (however much effort/speed you put in).

I think its a shame that lots of effort went into the over ambitious free ride area to cater for a minority, rather than more basic maintenance and improvements that would have benefited the majority…

This is one of my main gripes, it's great that they've rebuilt babymaker, but I doubt 80% of riders visiting will use that bit of trail. The blue bits, especially at the start, are in a dire condition, if I was a family with little ones and it was my first time there to ride the blue trail, I wouldn't be impressed with the state of the trail. Multiple times my rear wheel got kicked sideways due to a big exposed cobble, on what's meant to be a nice smooth, flat trail. If that's a kid riding the trail they're likely to crash, and why? Poor trail maintenance.

Right, today's job: check how much of my drivetrain/brakes I have left after the ginge has worn them away! 😁

Yep, only problem as you say is mud. There’s some local singletrack within a few miles of me but it turns into a flinty muddy mess over winter. Same for the (excellent) trails at Friston forest.

Consdiering it's rained every day for 3 weeks, i'm not exactly sure what Swinley can do to resolve the mud issue ?

Poor trail maintenance.

There's only so much a team of volunteers can do - they obviously spend most of their time working on stuff they want to ride, plus the clubhouse was trashed by forestry work earlier in the year, so took priority.

Ginge is a constant problem, but goes with the territory!

Also, I saw there's an Xmas ride out with a BBQ on the 16th.

Consdiering it’s rained every day for 3 weeks, i’m not exactly sure what Swinley can do to resolve the mud issue ?

In essence, the popularity/accessibility of the venue coupled to the need to make it more weatherproof is what led to the ginge in the first place. The old trails never used to become properly muddy due to the soil (and sandy base) - not claggy clay that stopped your wheels and ripped your mechs off, it just spattered and made you look like you had uncontrollable dysentry and surreptitiously ate your drivetrain at the same time.

But as more rode them, and in particular the less experienced who maybe weren't as conscious of eg: erosion issues and so rode round rather than through the puddles, the trails got wider, and wider, until it was no longer feasible to 'repair' what was there using the local club's volunteer labour and if it was to remain sustainable as a venue, an armoured trail* was inevitable.

* with the proviso it had to use aggregate from the onsite resource.

And the rest, as they say......

"Multiple times my rear wheel got kicked sideways due to a big exposed cobble, on what’s meant to be a nice smooth, flat trail."

I know what you mean about the surface being annoying but this is mountain biking, not BMX!

Consdiering it’s rained every day for 3 weeks, i’m not exactly sure what Swinley can do to resolve the mud issue ?

I was talking about the other trails in Kent near me which turn into a proper mud fest which is why I tend to avoid them during winter - Friston forest is brilliant, much better than Swinley and Bedgebury combined, but they are the 2 nearest trail centres which can be ridden year round pretty much regardless of how much it's rained.

Swinley doesn't have 'mud' but then I'm not sure the alternative is better! I've just washed my bike and I think I could make a beach out of the sand that was on it! 😁

“Multiple times my rear wheel got kicked sideways due to a big exposed cobble, on what’s meant to be a nice smooth, flat trail.”

I know what you mean about the surface being annoying but this is mountain biking, not BMX!

Well, obviously for anyone on here or anyone with a tiny bit of riding time it's not a problem, but I'm thinking of all trail users - it's a blue trail which means it's going to get used by everyone from 3/4 year olds to 80 year olds (because honestly, who would ride the 'green' trail?!) which means it <i>should</i> be in decent condition to allow it to be ridable by all ages.

It all goes back again to say the blue trail is lacking in upkeep - and seeing as it's the first bit of trail probably 75% of users will see when they come to swinley (and the most used), you'd think they'd want to keep it in tip top condition to make a good first impression. Hopefully now they've finished babymaker they'll start to look at other parts of the trails which need attention. But hey, what do I know - I don't run a trail centre 🙂

I know what you mean about the surface being annoying but this is mountain biking, not BMX!

This 100%.

Multiple times my rear wheel got kicked sideways due to a big exposed cobble, on what’s meant to be a nice smooth, flat trail.

From the BC Trail Grading System :

Blue - Moderate : The trail surface may be loose uneven or muddy at times. Trail surface may include small obstables of roots and rock.

Try looking ahead more and steer around things you don't want to ride over...

See above - I think it's pretty obvious I can handle a ****ing blue trail, come on. 🙄  There are other trail users, not just us. It's a blue trail which is the first level above wide smooth fire roads which means it's going to get used by everyone, and quite frankly the first blue sections before you reach the red are in a shocking state. If I was a normal cyclist taking a child round there for the first time, I don't think I'd bother coming back.

Blue – Moderate : The trail surface may be loose uneven or muddy at times. Trail surface may include small obstables of roots and rock.

I think the CE descriptions pitch it as intermediate, it's got some fairly substantial jumps in it, they're rollable, but they're big if you're gunning for it.

See above – I think it’s pretty obvious I can handle a **** blue trail, come on. 🙄  There are other trail users, not just us. It’s a blue trail which is the first level above wide smooth fire roads which means it’s going to get used by everyone, and quite frankly the first blue sections before you reach the red are in a shocking state. If I was a normal cyclist taking a child round there for the first time, I don’t think I’d bother coming back.

It's not meant to be groomed though. That's like saying people will be put off sailing because water is cold and wet. It's [s]mountain[/s] off road biking.

It's rideable at a bimble pace, just not fun as you found out. If you read the trail descriptions I think it fit's them probably better than a lot of trail centers manage, blue's are meant to be a challenge for intermediate, the red is actually described as "advanced" that's possibly stretching that somewhat, it's not much of a step from the blue unless you start doubling the rollers.

Now those "drops" on the red aren't the best designed in the world, but if you can't ride those, and complain about the surface of the blue (which meets the description of having rocks and roots), maybe the problem isn't with the trail? Either it's your expectations of how easy a trail should be, or you're overstating your skill level (because let's be honest, those drops are a bit of a joke).

 If I was a normal cyclist taking a child round there for the first time, I don’t think I’d bother coming back

Well for a start, i wouldn't be doing it in December.... I'd be doing it when it's warm, dry and sunny.

I'd also start with the green...

That's how my first trips to Swinley with my 6 year old went anyway.

I rode the green on Monday (I have no pride)! Actually, having not been there for so long I wanted to explore everything they had done and also see what would be suitable for my kids if I do take them there.  The Green is OK actually - very short, but enough variation to keep it interesting for a kid just starting out.  I think my 9 year old would clear it with derision, the 7 year old - probably - given enough time, the five year old - well he'd have a go - but probably not be able to do the little climb.

As for the blue - I'm not sure any of them would be able to do the whole thing - but the 9 year old probably would if we didn't take it too seriously.  It's all relative - I know there people on here whose kids compete at these ages - but for mine the most off roading they normally get to do is across the park or along the river from Windsor to Maidenhead.  Hills are an abstract concept to them!

I saw that the tabletop on Babymaker had been redone but what are these large drops being talked about? Are they on one of the official trails..?

It doesn't have to be groomed, just maintained. As others have said, over the years the sand has eroded away leaving the cobbles behind.

I do think a lot of UK trail centres have the gradings a bit wrong, most reds are really blues, but from what I understand it's not the volunteers/trail builders that set the grade, it's the FC. I know Bedgebury had issues even getting berms in and convincing the FC that berms are not dangerous! For me, a good blue trail is one that can be ridden by anybody, including beginners - but then ridden by a decent MTB'er other 'features' appear, jumps, rollers, drops etc. If it's flat then let people keep the speed up to enjoy the trail, not rob speed at every opportunity. Swinley does that really well in some areas, you only need look at the newish blue final section, it's just a shame the rest of it lets it down, IMO of course.

In all, it's 'OK' but could be a lot better with some maintenance. But for me, it's not worth the extra distance over closer trail centres.

I saw that the tabletop on Babymaker had been redone but what are these large drops being talked about? Are they on one of the official trails..?

Yeah they're on red 9, 2 drops followed by a mellow table top. 'Large' is pushing it a bit, they're 1-2ft.

Yes - 'large' was tongue in cheek - more a reflection of my inability to deal with anything I can't roll comfortably on my 120 Reba's!

Are you still allowed to ride the off piste stuff. Thought one of the reasons for proper trails was for the nesting of rare birds.

Yeah they’re on red 9, 2 drops followed by a mellow table top. ‘Large’ is pushing it a bit, they’re 1-2ft.

That's pushing it, 6-8" more like!

I wondered if it was those two being referred to but they're not even a foot high so didn't think it was - thought that the black freeride area had finally been opened or something!

thought that the black freeride area had finally been opened or something!

Looked like it had been bulldozed / felled last time I was there.. there did seem to be a more progressive set of tables emerging, but they may have already been there.

I think it was the dire signpost warnings of 'New trail feature ahead' and 'DROPS' hanging from the trees that freaked me out - must try harder next time! Although....