[Closed] Swinley, best 2quid I ever spent

Second only to Whistler Bike Park.

I think they've done a good job with what they have. Fair play to them really

Indeed, it's exceptionally hard to build a mountain bike trail centre without any real hills.... they've done a cracking job. Whilst the politics are open to debate etc... Whilst the longevity of riding the same trails week in week out are also open to debate.... it's still a bloody good bit of fun within their geographical constraints.

£2 a bargain. I hope people are happy to repay the effort and hard work.

Politics?

Agreed, I had a great time there yesterday.

Politics?

Crown Estate, BoB's, Ryan Sorrell, walkers, etc etc.

Must have missed it. Seems in hindsight that there was a lot of ill-informed aggro at the start. Fortunately ignored and a good result at the end. Walkers will be educated surely? I doubt people are deliberately walking on the trails in protest.

Oblivious joggers on the trails wearing headphones is fun....

I only managed time for the blue trail on Saturday, but was impressed at how good it was and they've kept and improved on the good parts of the original trails. will try the Red trail soon, must have missed all the walkers and joggers... deffinitley worth the £2 parking fee 😀

Things aren't what they used to be. Wistfully remembers all the Forum rides we had there, happy times.

I was there checking out the new trails on Saturday as well, and had an awesome time (rain and hail notwithstanding).

I've only ever found the good stuff there once before (last November when I was shown it by the STW collective!) so to have it all marked out makes for a much more satisfying ride. Well, I say marked out, some of the navigation on the red trail was still a little curious.

So - anybody local organising a Super Sexy Swinley Mass Ride?

Rode the blue/red for the first tie last week and agree, they've done a great job.

A couple of us took nippers over yesterday on balance bikes and hit the green run. It was fantastic for the little'uns, they had a ball. 3 laps and a run around the playground afterwards and my eldest ate 2 plates of dinner and was asleep about 30 seconds after going to bed.

ate 2 plates of dinner and was asleep about 30 seconds after going to bed.

That was me on Saturday night after 2 laps of the blue and 1 of the red.

Went there last week, did blue twice with a detour to do a few red sections and session deer stalker/labyrinth.

Don't get to go that often so the changes are pretty dramatic since I was last there. Very impressed with the blue route, pretty easy for anyone to ride but great fun if you give it the beans. The whole place was riding beautifully in fairness, perfect conditions.

And paying for the carpark? No problem with that at all if it keep the trails there and a much better system then the old permits.

[url= https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kxZn3LhAacd0qAxCz-OJfweP16zClpJ6FF8R7eap-XZeVKCnhkgSEl2mGNd6/edit?pli=1 ]I take it this is the new map (blue and red loops)?[/url]

Haven't been for 3-4 years and was beginning to sense the changes were being deemed negative. Am now quite looking forward to venturing over there again.

[url= :large]I think this one is more accurate.[/url]

The bit that I was unsure about was between 4-5 on the red. Is the correct route a rather vague and (by the look of it) at times boggy narrow section on the RHS of the forest road. I rode about half of it and then decided that I was off-piste. Went back to the main FR, which was pretty poor and wet.

I think that part of the red loses the flow. The second section is much, much better IMO.

I agree - the blue is fun, plenty packed into a shortish loop, but the red definitely loses the flow. Some really great bits over by the reservoir, deerstalker etc but very disjointed getting there. Still a good effort considering what they had to work with.

The bit that I was unsure about was between 4-5 on the red. Is the correct route a rather vague and (by the look of it) at times boggy narrow section on the RHS of the forest road.

Was that section marked by red and white tape on the trees? If so I think that is the way, but it was a bit vague.

I got confused by a climb towards the end (I think between 25 and 26) that seemed to be the wrong way round, I was worried that someone was going to come hurtling out of the trees in front of me.

Yep the Red 4-5 is a boggy mess at the top end - there seems to be a new-ish unmade trail winding through the trees at the start now which joins up with the original route that is/was closer to the fire road. I've been in hub deep puddles at the top end in the past so it'll be interesting to see if that gets sorted out in the future.

That's such an obvious miss that I'm wondering if it got cut from the work due to BoT having to re-visit some of the stuff that got ridden while it was still officially closed.

Yep, I followed the red and white tape, but having just done 2 blue laps, it felt as if I was on an unofficial bit. Hence having got half way along, I turned back in the hope of finding the "correct route." Ended up on the FR and actually deviating onto bits of seagull (I think) coming the other way 😳

The lack of flow with that middle bit may lead to people just cutting that bit out all together. I though the climb up to reservoir was a neat versions and the next bits (the decent after the reservoir) and the old fave's around deerstalker etc were the highlights of the red. But as a whole ride, it links good sections without the (better) flow of the blue IMO.

unfortunately only a small fraction of that parking fee goes to the trails, most goes to closing the hole in Bracknell councils budget.

That boggy mess red trail is a bit weird - reduces the all-weatherness of the trails.

Too much fireroad, my old loop was fun and had hardly any fire road on it but covered most of the trails, but then they weren't so accessible as not marked.

Too many air ambulance visits and no enforcement of helmets, etc. I don't regularly contribute to the air ambulance to see it p1ssed away on idiots who get concussion because of no helmet.

Signage is woefully inadequate, not keeping runners and walkers from the trails, which the bikers are confined to now (2% of forest).

This was reported on facebook:

"New one today. Blue section 3 a family had pushed two baby pushchairs to the top of the first climb. They were changing one if the babies nappies at the trail side with the buggies left on the trail, one with a baby in it. "

"how did the conversation go?"

"The usual. Why do you have to ride here, there's the whole forest. I pointed out the berms. Oh."

Never been there,how does it compare to Bedgebury?

Dunno, never been there 🙂

and no enforcement of helmets

Does Llandegla, Cwmcarn, Afan etc enforce helmets ?

I got confused by a climb towards the end (I think between 25 and 26) that seemed to be the wrong way round, I was worried that someone was going to come hurtling out of the trees in front of me.

Looking at the map and reading comments on the facebook group, either I'm very wrong with the post numbers, or I was very wrong riding that section the way I did. I hope it was the former, as when I came out the top there was a post all ready and waiting for me. I need a map with contour lines...

spacemonkey - Member
Haven't been for 3-4 years and was beginning to sense the changes were being deemed negative. Am now quite looking forward to venturing over there again.

I think it'll probably be carnage through the summer, but then it was always stupidly busy during peak months and as far as I can tell this is an attempt to control that to some degree (one way trails eg). In the winter though I think it'll really come into it's own. Don't get me wrong, I used to quite enjoy slogging through the mud for a couple of hours on a cold and wet Thursday night, but this will be so much better.

Serious question - would people be happy riding those loops week in week out?

I've been cycling down there for a few years now and I must admit I am impressed. Work is still going on with the guys coming back soon for a few weeks work and there will be continuous improvements and new trails. Down side is that it does get busy and hence I now only go down there early morning or in the evening.

Red 4>5 is a bit pointless at the moment and so I just go down the fire trail to the the left (but that still has a couple of swimming pools in it). I start at seagull normally and so finish of the red loop 3>7 I think and these are probably the worst parts of the trails. They are devoid of anything interesting and seem like an afterthought just so they can get people round seagull and not back up it as it used to go both ways.

There is also a black run marked on the trail map at the start of seagull which is only black I think because there is no real trail there.

New trails are running pretty sweet, but already showing signs of damage which is a shame. Agree about the red route bog, we got confused down there and have been riding Swinley for a few years, sure there are better cheeky trails to get down that part.

Anyone know the outcome of the Air Ambulance attending on Sunday around lunchtime? Think it was section 25-26 on the red route. Think a lass was hurt on a set of doubles. Hope she is ok. So much for the new route reducing casualties, never seen Air Ambulance out before yesterday.

CG - jury is out for me, but it's a few years since I had the time to ride anywhere week in week out! While it's pretty big, Swinley was never really big enough for a decent day out anyway (IMO). I/we always rode it as it is convenient and good for a 2-3 hour blast. Generally we had a fairly set route and wouldn't deviate from that too much anyway other than repeating a section for example.

For bigger, longer days I'd venture further afield. But if you need a quick fix it's ideal and with year round armoured trails even more so IMO.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Serious question - would people be happy riding those loops week in week out?

That's where it becomes a choice... you could say the same about Afan, Llandegla etc... "would you be happy riding them when you could ride the other stuff around the area"

Well, it's not quite that simple is it...

If Swinley allow people to ride all over, they are then hit with many many cases of "we're suing you as we crashed into a tree..."

The trails at Swinley are designed and built in accordance with MTB regulations, the signs tell you the direction and the route. Therefore it's deemed 'safe' within the eyes of the law. The signs that explain the risks also take this into account. Therefore if you crash at Swinley now with "i crashed ....." they say "the trail fullfills all legal requirements and is deemed safe, it was checked today at 10am by Ranger Dan and he's happy it's still within currently legislation. The signs informed you it could be dangerous..."

Therefore the oppertunity for people to sue the Crown Estate goes away.

Lastly, you say this like WE have any right or requirement to be on there at ALL !!! We're only allowed on because the Crown Estate allow it... it's their land... not ours !!!

Does Llandegla, Cwmcarn, Afan etc enforce helmets ?

Llandegla certain says ALWAYS on its web site.

The air ambulance seems to be out to Swinley every day.

Wearing a helmet is a small price to pay to guard against easily preventable injuries.

There could be a serious crash on the motorway with life threatening injuries, and there is no air ambulance available as it is dealing with some numpty at Swinley.

And the air ambulance has no funding from the government now, it is all charitable donations.

I really don't see why the air ambulance goes out there so often - I think they use some golf cart type thing to actually retrieve the rider, so it is not like the ambulance is landing within the forest.

How does it compare to Bedgebury? Very different, much more 'groomed' at Swinley compared to Bedgebury which seems to have been let go a bit recently (not a dig at Bedgebury BTW).

weeksy - Member
Lastly, you say this like WE have any right or requirement to be on there at ALL !!! We're only allowed on because the Crown Estate allow it... it's their land... not ours !!!

+1

It great to be able to ride there, great to have an alternative when the rest of the area is boggy, great to have the option of a TC with berms etc.

Thanks to all involved.

The signs informed you it could be dangerous..."

However the signs are pretty inadequate - the no-entry sign is pathetically small and I am not sure if there is anything that says no runners and no walkers.

So the new trails have been built to carry a lot more speed than the older trails, but there are extra hazards of walkers and runners. I reckon someone could spin an accident with a walker or runner into some form of incompetent signage by CE, and still sue them.

The air ambulance seems to be out to Swinley every day.

Swinley's accessibility is IMO part of it's appeal. Sure for those MTB gods amongst us it might be frustrating getting held up by someone slow on a Halfords special, but it's also nice to see so many people participating in the sport we all love.

If you want to go fast, go early!

Anyone know the outcome of the Air Ambulance attending on Sunday around lunchtime? Think it was section 25-26 on the red route. Think a lass was hurt on a set of doubles. Hope she is ok. So much for the new route reducing casualties, never seen Air Ambulance out before yesterday.

from facebook:

Dislocated shoulder and as yet unknown damage to hip/pelvis is all I've heard so far

Ouch. Some of those doubles towards the end of the blue (I think) deserve a bit of respect if hitting with speed.

Dislocated shoulder and as yet unknown damage to hip/pelvis is all I've heard so far

Didn't get to ride that section in the end so cant comment on how likely it is to catch people out, but I am amazed at the amount of people to hit stuff far too quick and then claim it wasn't signed or is dangerous. I've always been taught to ride to what you can see, and everything (that I've seen) in Swinley is rollable and should be rolled the first time around. When it gets a bit touch and go is when you can do it quickly but not quite clear it comfortably as will be the case with a lot of people at Swinley and a few of the doubles.

ChrisI - Member
When it gets a bit touch and go is when you can do it quickly but not quite clear it comfortably as will be the case with a lot of people at Swinley and a few of the doubles.

Very true - this and tony's comment - I think I fall into that camp (not enough speed/bottle/skill to ensure clearance at the moment). 😉

Anyone else think the Red is a bit boring? It didn't seem to have the fun or flow of the blue.

Just seemed like they put some single track for the sake of getting over to the labyrinth and back. I think I'd rather just take the fire roads and get there quicker go up and down a few times then head back an continue with the blue.

Maybe I got lost and missed all the good bits?

Re C_G - would i be happy to ride there every day?

That'll be the test for me. I've been riding in Swinley and surrounding areas for 15+ years. At the moment these new trails are fun, but I'm not sure if that's because of their innate fun-ness or their novelty value. I guess if I lived in Afan i wouldn't just ride the waymarked trails either, whereas if you don't ride there often, the ability to turn up and know what you're getting is part of the benefit of a trail centre.

I'll admit, before the work started I understood and accepted absolutely why it had to happen but wasn't in favour, if that makes sense. When the blue opened, I was impressed. I thought it would have been a lot tamer but there's enough on the blue to keep the more proficient riders occupied while at the same time being suitable for less experienced. On that basis, I became quite excited at the prospect of the red.

But on the hope that the red would be another improvement over the blue - it was a bit of a letdown to me. There are a few great fun sections for sure, but there seems to be an awful lot of fireroad and flat / traversing singletrack just to connect them up. I don't remember the numbers, but the whole section from the end of Tank traps to the start of Seagull is dull. Fireroad, swamp, and then st through the trees but it seems as if the trees have been cut so far back it's a 4m wide swathe with a half metre ribbon of trail in it. Is this a feature of the machinery used, would have been much better if it had remained densepacked like the last section of Seagull?

So overall - better than i thought it might be, but not as good as I'd hoped it would be.

Serious question - would people be happy riding those loops week in week out?

@ weeksy - btw it's rowan 😉

Would I ride it week in, week out?

Probably. But in the same way I used to ride old Swinley - have a session around Labrynth area one visit, maybe a couple of blasts around the blue on another... Mix and match kinda thing but I would get bored of riding the whole loop time after time.

Does seem a bit excessive to get the Air Ambulance out for that

Was actually fractured collar bone, ribs and hip, so not so excessive after all. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

dashed - Member

Would I ride it week in, week out?

Probably. But in the same way I used to ride old Swinley - have a session around Labrynth area one visit, maybe a couple of blasts around the blue on another... Mix and match kinda thing but I would get bored of riding the whole loop time after time.

I hope they build more red route sections as there were points on it that are so boring, but then others that are really good. Seems to be much bigger extremes than the blue route which is pretty good all the way around just not techy at all.

Just a note that your £2 hasn't gone towards building these trails 😉 . It's all come from Crown Estate money.

Very little of it will go to the Crown Estate in the future though a small amount is promised, but the primary reason for the parking charges is stated by Bracknell Council as a source of income to help deal with deficits in their budget (Bracknell Council are responsible for the car park / Lookout area, but nothing else in the Swinley estate).

But aside from that, yes great job Back on Track & Rowan, especially given the limitations of the land and restrictions placed on them 🙂

Ridden all the new routes a few times and I can’t make up my mind about them.

The trails are great fun to ride fast. But unless you like jumping over those table tops (or doubles or whatever they are called) there is nothing on the new trails that you have to really worry about (apart from loosing speed before the jumpy bits).

So quite often the new routes feel like a cross between a velodrome and a theme park ride. Seems very odd to me.

And somebody ought to get a burger van at the red/blue meeting point – they could end up making a fortune

So is Labyrinth haunted? Every time I have ridden their (on my own) I can clearly hear other riders close by. But they never appear. Last week, their voices made them feel very close and I felt that they were about to fly past me at any moment. I waited for several minutes at the end and then kept looking back from the FR - no one.

So were the voices merely the ghosts of labyrinth? 😉 It would take quite a bit for me to ride that alone at night!!

And somebody ought to get a burger van at the red/blue meeting point – they could end up making a fortune

we were talking about this on facebook, came to the conclusion that bikini-clad bike washers would be a better idea:

THM - those voices were likely from the bikini bike wash (they serve cold beer while you wait). You must have missed the turning.

😀 They were happy voices!!! It explains a lot, plus the riders who I saw skip deerstalker and dive straight in towards the start of (what I stupidly thought was) labyrinth!!! Next time.....

OK, Am I the only saddo that is going to keep displaying the last couple of years permits - just in case I get a chance to strike up a "I used to ride here before it was famous" type conversation?

If you take the permits off and then ride anywhere in the forest or on any trails closed for maintenance/nesting birds, then you can just say 'it's my first time here' when challenged, and everyone will just laugh.

This seemed to be the policy for all the riders that rode the trails before they were open and it worked for them. One even had a few years of permit bands hanging from his stem.

OK, Am I the only saddo that is going to keep displaying the last couple of years permits - just in case I get a chance to strike up a "I used to ride here before it was famous" type conversation?

The trails are great fun to ride fast. But unless you like jumping over those table tops (or doubles or whatever they are called) there is nothing on the new trails that you have to really worry about (apart from loosing speed before the jumpy bits).

errmm doesn't that apply to any obstacle? If you're not going to ride it properly then of course it'll be easy.

Trying to do the jumps is the challenge and provides the rush.

OK, for me anyway, riding Swinley now resembles bad sex. I've ridden both trails a few times now and there's a distinct lack of smiling. 😐

I know I know I'm coming across as a miserable old cah but really pleased that I had many years of fun there before the changes.

Possibly my tyre choice/pressure was wrong but the surface felt pretty unforgiving on a hardtail.

C-G, i know what you mean about the HT being unforgiving. That was quite a shock for me last week. And first time round the surface felt very odd and I wasnt sure how to ride it. I was stupidly slow first time round on the very first bit. It just looked a bit weird.

But what are you missing? Isnt the Deerstalker area pretty much in tact? Tank traps, seagull, corkscrew (I assume) ditto. And there is a better way home now.

the surface felt pretty unforgiving on a hardtail.

I thought that as well. Pretty sure my tyre pressures were too high and my seatpost was too low.

I haven't ridden the new stuff on a HT yet but a lot of the older manufactured trail was very similar in construction and I didn't particularly enjoy riding that on a HT. Too many unnecessary little bumps here and there for a groomed trail, and too hard a material with no natural 'give' to make it pleasant on a HT.

Given the softness of the natural forest floor (apart from all the nasty slippery rooty bits) the Swinley of old was a great spot for HTs, seems like you're just pining for days gone by CG. Wake up and get with the program 🙂

Edit: And the 'softness of the natural forest floor' was actually more down to the 4 inches of mud you were riding through!

[i]If you're not going to ride it properly [/i]

Sorry, I didn't realise there was a "proper" way. Will I be laughed at because i like to keep my wheels on the ground?

[i]Trying to do the jumps is the challenge[/i]

Not for me it isn't.

[i]and provides the rush[/i]

I'm quite happy rushless thank you.

I'm looking forward to visiting Swinley, possibly over the upcoming weekend. What are these jumps like though? I've been over the ones at Llandegla at full pelt but I have to admit that after getting a jump majorly wrong once and knocking myself out cold for several minutes, getting airborne isn't my favourite pastime.

Cheers

Don't understand how why anyone moans about the new trails. As someone has already stated "Isnt the Deerstalker area pretty much in tact? Tank traps, seagull, corkscrew (I assume) ditto".

Regarding the bumps etc - I heard people moaning about this a couple of weeks back. If you keep your speed up and rider big wheels then you fly round. Much prefer a firmer surface.

Regarding the bumps etc - I heard people moaning about this a couple of weeks back. If you keep your speed up and rider big wheels then you fly round. Much prefer a firmer surface.

What do you ride out of interest?

I only get over there once or twice a year and I have to say I'm really impressed with what they've done - I just see it as a better way to get over to what is now the "red" section and back again.

I think the blue route has been really well designed to accommodate fast and slow riders. I rode it on a hardtail (which I don't normally do) and I think I took the right bike in the end.

They could definitely do with some signs to keep the walkers off though. What looks obvious to us must look like something else to them.

theotherjonv - completely understand what you're saying! I've tried to be open-minded but fear the charm and character has gone for good. 🙁

tony - I don't deny it! Used to ride to Swinley from home and had lived in the area for decades. Local knowledge was needed for knowing what trails to use at what time of year. My routes were random with huge possibilities especially if you include the RMA side.

Another observation is that by having the blue giving access to the red, it can be rather intimidating having people flying past you. There's a shortage of 'lay-bys' for a spliff and cider so that potentially makes for tired riders. 😉

I'm running Nobby Nics, possibly tyre pressure was too high, but always found a hardtail/ss perfectly acceptable there.

Scott Scale 29er pro

that's my problem - I am on a Turner Flux Amateur - I think I need to upgrade to the Pro model 🙂

[b]somewhatslightlydazed[/b] - I wasn't having a dig at you. I don't clear many of the jumps either and am far from being a riding god, so I'm in no position to laugh at any one myself.

Its a blue trail in an area where you will get a lot of people new to riding bikes. Meaning you can't build anything too steep or with mandatory obstacles. You need to build things that can be rolled over by a novice. But at the same time, a more advanced rider can choose if they wish and have the skill, to go much faster round the berms taking a higher line or try to clear the jumps.

Different trails have different challenges. Just happens the challenge at the new Swinley trails is taking berms as fast as possible and doing the jumps.

If you don't like the challenge laid out by the trail that's fair enough, different people like different things.

But to say I didn't try to the challenges and found the trail a little unchallenging is a bit silly.

[i] What are these jumps like though? I've been over the ones at Llandegla [/i]

From memory there are only four sections in 14 miles (two on the blue and two on the red). If you know what you are doing I'm sure they are no problem. Although if you're not careful, I think the second bit on the red route (where the pink bridge used to be) has the potential for something to go seriously wrong. If you are in to that sort of thing, best to try it once then go back up for a proper go.

EDIT: just checked the route map. Its section 25 - 26

[b]jairaj[/b] - I wasn't really talking about the blue route. I know thats meant to be fairly easy.

I mean ALL the new sections taken together. Its seems to be either berms or jumps, which are fine taken at whatever pace you feel comfortable at.

Its suppose my mixed feelings are because last weekend, I rode 14 miles there with no dabs, no falls and only one involuntary dismount(and that was on the black bit). I'm a slow crap rider and it just doesn't seem right that a route should provide no challenge unless you ride fast.

Ride faster then.
I followed one of my mates round swinley, and you can double up a lot of the rollers.
It has to be easy to ride slowly, otherwise beginners would crash, and never ride again.

[b]somewhatslightlydazed[/b] I know what you mean. I'd like some lower speed technical sections in there to act as a change from the fast bermy jumpy bits. I've not tried the reworked Satan's Grotto yet (is it even open?), but that might be a start. There's plenty of scope for more technical routes coming off from the reservoir near the old Twisted Sister/DH bit but I guess it's a question of priorities, time, money and effort.

However I'm not sure which super-sexy old tracks CG is missing - Watson's Wander is a good riddance, a few of the other bits have been bisected by the new trails so aren't rideable any more but all the Crowthorne side and a lot of the other off piste stuff is still there. I live practically next door to the place and think I've only done a handful of rides that have solely stuck to the signed routes since they've been open.

C-G, i know what you mean about the HT being unforgiving

I wasn't really talking about the blue route. I know thats meant to be fairly easy.

And if you don't think the Blue is technical, try getting round in sub 28 minutes of an evening, once the crowds have dispersed.

Missing the bomb craters - my collarbone nemesis 😳

try getting round in sub 28 minutes

[i]It has to be easy to ride slowly, otherwise beginners would crash, and never ride again. [/i]

I teach beginners.

What you need are a lot of technical features close together on a trail where its hard to build up much speed. So when they fall of, they don't hurt themselves.

I used to use a bit called (I think) "New England Switchbacks" It had a steep down, a drop off (with chicken run), a bermy section and a loose granny ring climb, all in about half a mile. But apparently there is some rare lichen there so its been closed 🙁

I ride Swinley on a weekly basis and wasn't a fan of what they were proposing, but have been open minded since the trails started to open

The trails are good fun - not my kind of thing to be honest, with both the traffic and surface resembling the M25 at times

However, i also understand that this type of riding does suit a lot of people and is good to get newbies into the sport

I know that i'd get bored of it pretty quickly - so i haven't attacked it with some of the vigour of some of the other local riders

I do fear that Deerstalker and Labyrinth will be armoured before long, as the breaking bumps are getting to Les Gets depth already - this will be a massive shame as the Labyrinth is probably the best trail west of London for 100 miles

It's interesting to see how many visitors its bringing into the area, but also worrying how many are getting airlifted out.

Change is change - so i'm using the non-Swinley routes a lot more and sometimes venturing into our new trail centre for a quick blast