[Closed] Swapping XT brakes for Hopes - worth it?

lots of discussions on this very subject, quite a marmite outcome.

you seem to be doing well with the XT m8000, i warranty replaced 2 pairs,
tech 3 E4s have been great, just put a 200mm rotor on front of the new bike and the braking is superb. i definately prefer the feel of hope modulation, power maybe not as good as XT,
although i re-bled my rear on winter hardtail (after 28 months) a week ago, i'd left the old pads in too long, pistons pushed out too far and levers had gone squishy, simple bleed process and my word, they have far more power than i recall

i've not tried V4.. guess depends on your total weight and riding style if v4 over e4s

I do like the on/off nature of XTs

Hopes may not be to your taste unfortunately, they have very good modulation, but don’t tend to have the on/off instant power of Shimano.

That said, I know a few folk who have converted, in both senses, so you never know.

If you're not having the usual problems, I wouldn't bother. Mine were great when they worked, but shat themselves so often that I swapped back to Hopes (X2 race), no major differences other than not replacing levers and calipers on a regular basis.

I do like the on/off nature of XTs

Hope's even the V4's are the complete opposite.

Heaps of modulation, which means the more you pull, the more power you get - give them a proper pull and there's eye popping power when needed. The XT's would feel like a switch (on/off) in comparison.

By all means give them a try, with 3 caveats

1. there's a 6 week lead time on Hope brakes at the moment
2. they need to be set up correctly
2. please don't go complaining they have no power because they have a different feel to XT's.

I just found out thanks to Google this morning that i made the swap from XT 2 pots to E4s 4 years ago.

i honestly didn't think it was that long ago, brakes still look and work like new, despite having been ridden on 3 bikes now.

bloody love them. almost fit and forget, pads seem to last forever.

just do it if you are questioning it.

I went from xt m8000 to hope e4 on one bike 2 years ago and from xt785 to v4 3 months ago.

I changes from the m8000 as they had a frequently wandering bite point I couldn't cure as in every ride multiple times.

The m785 also have a wandering bite point but is very occasionally and a bleed sorts it for months.

The seals have started drawing in 3 out of 4. Hopes now. I made an absolute hash of fixing this and have an e4 on the front and xt785 on the rear of one bike.

Last ride this lead to dragging brake on the front making irritating noises and the xt785 bit point wandered a coupe of times In a 3h ride.

So I'd go hopes again for 2 years of fault free service. Hopefully I won't make such a hash of fixing them next time.

Interms of power they are all great. I've never failed to stop due to the brakes. The hopes were fine for me for a week of whistler a couple of years ago. They did deliver their power differently but you will just get used to it. It was a bit odd with the mismatched pair for 5 min the. I got used to it.

If your brakes work, just stick with them! Clearly you have an excellent set. Swap them If they brake ( pun intended)

. I do like the on/off nature of XTs

Keep the XT's, I like my Hope E4's but they definitely aren't like any Shimano brakes. I've had various Shimano brakes over the years, most have leaked from the caliper or had the bite point issues, Hope's feel totally different but also feel the same every time, haven't had a single issue in 3 years now

I wanted to like the t2e4s. I bought a whole hope bike and every bike I have owned has at least something hope on it.

I found the brakes terrible. You had to pull the levers really hard to get the power. Over repeated long techy runs with lots of braking (my natural local trails) you got sore hands and I no faith they would stop me. Tried all sorts of pads, bleeding, all the tweaks and setting up. Sold them, bought slx 4 pots and never looked back. I have loads of modulation and my bike now stops....

They are very marmite and depends totally on what you ride and how you ride it. If you like the feel of shimano you will likely hate them. They do look very good though and spares seem amazing but if they dont do what you need from brakes i.e. stop you, then thats no use!

On the flip side, I have a Hope bike (HB160) and have no issues with braking with E4's.

And a set on the hard tail with no issues.

And M4's on the boy's bike that i used to have with no issues.

I find how they're bedded in with new pads makes a massive difference.

Exactly the same debate I'm having. My XT M8000 have been great to be fair. But if/when they go I'm all in with Hope brakes.....I think.

Thing that confuses me is the mounts I may need (I just don't understand the Hope website on these) and whether I need Hope disks. My understanding is that the disks are more than likely going to be OK. The mounts is try em before buying Hope if needed.

I am a big hope fan but given what you say don't do it.

Given the replies I think I’ll stick with the XTs until they cause issues - other than a sticky rear piston once they’ve been superb - never even bled them or had to top them up. Not done a proper Alps day on them mind but if I ever get back out there I might review them before going! If there was an overwhelming consensus that the Hopes are significantly better that might have swung it but this being STW there was never going to be a unanimous answer 😉. A mate of mine has the V4s and has offered me a go on his bike when we’re allowed the play again so I might try them out of curiousity.

I swapped XT 2-pots for Hope E4's. Have been happy I did.

XT are slightly more powerful, but Hopes modulation and control are the key factor and you always know what you're getting when you pull the lever even in the alps and they will last you years being fully rebuildable, compared to the disposablity of shimano.

Xt or Deore four pots paired with your current shimano levers?

Was about to ask if you knew you can get 4-pot XT’s?

I have them, they’ve been great and trouble free. They’ve taken all I can throw at them, even had the discs at ‘rain evaporating on impact’ temperatures.

“I’ve currently got 2 pot XTs which TBF have been pretty faultless in the 3.5 years I’ve had the bike”

Leave them alone! I’ve got Hope V4 on one bike, Hope E4 on the other and had some Hope M4 on another bike. Also had Deore 2 pot (didn’t like them but they were cheap and going on a bike for gentler riding) and Avid somethings (nightmare). Very much a fan of Hope brakes.

But if you’re liking your Shimano’s and they’re proving reliable then I think you’d be crazy to mess with them.

I think it’s a really tricky one to answer and is very subjective to you and what you ride. I’ve had slx on my hard tail and used to have some xt on my full suspension and never liked the on off nature nor the fact that spares don’t exist. Busted seal? New calliper! Always been a hope fan before so switched to e4s and was happy enough for a few years. I then went to BC for the second time riding double black diamond and doing a lot more tweed valley trips and realised I had found the limit of their power and actually it had been a problem for a while. Interestingly my fella is 6ft 3 and built like a body guard and he has found and realised their power fade isn’t good enough, I will say though that because he’s not the same level as me so he does brake A LOT though. We’re both now SRAM code rsc users and so far I’m happy but time will tell and the places where more power is needed.

Bit of a mini update. Having deciding I’ll stick with the XT 2 pots, I can’t stop thinking about changing them 🙄. Brakes are a fkn mare to choose between without actually being able to try them. Hope V4s win on looks and desirability but that’s not the best reason to buy brakes...Marmite reviews on performance etc. XT 4 pots seem good. Magura MT7 sound excellent but a PITA to bleed and not keen on the plastic levers....MT5 similar performance but levers sound clunky and ‘unrefined’...arrrrggghh! So not so much an update as a sigh of confusion and indecision...

You can run the magura calipers with Shimano levers if that appeals

I've hope on one bike and magura trail sport on the other. I love hope brakes almost as much as I hate Shimano brakes. In the past I've always bought hopes. Decided to try the maguras this time and so far I'm very impressed. That said either piss all over Shimanos (I am not a fan of the grabby feel).

Both are reliable and powerful. If you need to yank on the lever both will do what you expect them too, ie stop you quickly

Shimanos are disposable, as in i dont think you can strip them down and effectively make a near new brake, you bin them and buy new.
Hopes can be stripped, cleaned, pistons, parts etc easily replaced and again back to about new.

I did find my saints weep a little in winter, but Hopes ive not had that problem with.
Hopes come in a wide range of colours should you be a complete tart, shimano its black or silver.

Resell value.
OK not something that many would consider, but should you not like them(Hope) there are lots of people wiling to buy them, more than id say shimanos, which most are aware should they go wrong, cannot be fixed and given the choice of 2nd hand between hope or XT, the majority i think would opt for the hopes

For an alternate view, I've found that Codes RSC are pretty much faultless, and everything I need. The lever action is light, they're infinitely adjustable, powerful, last all day on steep techy terrain, pads last well (although like all SRAM brakes they can be a bit loud in the wet) without the fade of Hope or the leakiness of Shimano. Hopes are pretty though, so perhaps you're just jonesing for something shiny to go on the bike!

Hi Rascal mate. I've been in your predicament a couple of times.
Now have Hope E4 tech 3 on the FS and Zees on the +tyred hardtail. Both 200mm front / 180mm rear discs.

Possibly chalk and cheese if ridden back to back but love them both.

There is something about the Hope lever feel that once you've experienced it, you will have an irrational desire to own some. You'll not be happy until you do. Almost to the point of the brakes themselves being secondary.

Hope do take a fair bit of faff to set up but once done I've not had a problem.
Shimano are a bit bighty but once used to them I really like the Zee power. Was a bit much for a regular width tyre on a lighter bike though.

I'll probably change the front calliper on my FS to a V4 from the E4 but as I've not ridden that bike in nearly a year it's not at the top of my thoughts.

As an aside ,I have 3 bikes with XT brakes. I bought another bike that had Shimano 6001 brakes. Fully intended to take XT brakes off my rarely ridden fatty and fit them on new bike.
The 6001s are better, not swapping.

I'm still with if your brakes are fine, just leave them be!

My rear hope 4 was sticking so I stuck a xt on while I got around to fixing it.

They both worked fine.

The front e4 was sticking.
The rear xt bite point was wandering about.
The V4 on the other bike are also sticking and I've got the seals to redo them.

I've got the bits to do the seals of the e4, and some new oil for the xt. Shed time is non riding time.

Why not just put new brakes off until they stop working?

If it's the V4 you want, spend the time saving up the extra.

Ages ago I read a bit in a car magazine about why the writer always wanted more. He said first launch in a veron was like and explosion, tenth had him thinking, hmm needs more mid range.

Any of the brakes you can buy will do the job well. You will get used to the braking power of anything. Swapping between xt, e4, V4 and road bike calipers- they are all different and after about 5min they all work well.

So if any brake works well, why not get the one you say

Hope V4s win on looks and desirability

You will get used to the performance of any brake.
If you ask on here someone has had faultless performance out of any brake and someone else has had a nightmare with the same brake.

Put £? Aside each month your xt are fine. Whey they are not get the ones you want, with the fancy rotors and bling.

I would run the xts until you need to replace a lever or caliper then swap... but to maguras. I have long been a shimano fan, but the inevitable bad value/ faff associated with swapping either end when a leak occurs means I am phasing them out. My wife has magura trail sports and they are very impressive. More feel than shimano 2 pots and more power too. The short alu lever feels pretty nice imo.

I swapped my perfectly good 2 pot XT's for Hope E4's a few years ago and have never regretted it. Hope are just nicer to have and I prefer how they work/feel.

I’m having a similar debate. I took off mt5 as the lever leaked and got some code r which I don’t like as I have no idea how much breaking is going on until you’re either virtually strapped on the wheel locks. The main thing that puts me off going back to mt5 is the royal blood fluid has a very low boiling point so you need to bleed them more which is a pita

I prefer the hope lever but the way shimano work. Hope need lots of lever pull to stop compared to my saint/zee brakes. They are great if you like that but a pain in the arse if you don't.

East way to decide is if hope were plain looking rather than bling colours would you still get them?

Ran M785 XTs on several bikes with no issues at all, then went to SRAM Guides which were OK until the lever started to stick, replaced under warranty and sold on. Swapped to E4's and was happy enough with them, but had several sticky pistons over two sets of E4's. New bike came with SRAM G2's and plan was to swap for E4's, but really liking the G2 actually. Feels more powerful than the E4 and has similar modulation, but you don't need to properly pull the lever to access the power. Will be flogging the E4's on the hardtail and replacing with a set of G2's I think!