The gravel bike never gets ridden, only bought it for fitness really and now run for that and fun so thinking of chopping it in for an xc hardtail.
Reasoning is that it will be as fast, more comfortable, and probs get ridden a touch more. I could always put gravel tyres on it too so win win.
The gravel bike has a nice build so could sell whole it part out - it's a large so should be sellable.
Max budget for a 29er ht is £900 or so.
Any less than agro hardtails to look at second hand or even new that fit the bill of ht, 130mm travel, 29er, space for frame bag and bottle, relaxed geo. Not heavy!
Been thinking the same recently. But pulled out my 2014 hardtail and a bit of a lump.
The new 2025 Merida Big.Nine 300 might be worth a look (not the old one).
Used On One Whippet? I was quite tempted to get a rigid carbon fork version recently but got a road bike instead. Not sure if it was the right choice tbh!
Definitely do it.
Remember that a modern 'XC' hardtail is waay, waaay more capable than they were a few years ago, due to geometry.
Said it loads on here, but my Sonder Camino barely gets a look in since I got my. Carbon Scott Scale.
Near as damnit as fast on tarmac but one billion percent better off road and on Singletrack.
I saw a group of 3 riders on gravel bikes with huge tyres today but they were wearing road style clothing.
Not sure what was going on but perhaps I can see why if you're a roadie and want a bit more fun and a little less traffic it's a solution.
Just buy a MTB FFS 😂, it looks like the worst of both worlds!
A Specialized Chisel 29er Hard tail would fit the bill perfectly. (It's also what I have)
I saw a group of 3 riders on gravel bikes with huge tyres today but they were wearing road style clothing.
Not sure what was going on but perhaps I can see why if you're a roadie and want a bit more fun and a little less traffic it's a solution.
Just buy a MTB FFS 😂, it looks like the worst of both worlds!
I like my gravel bike for longer rides where there's a chance of some light singletrack, forest paths or actual gravel. They make stuff that would be boring on a MTB quite fun too, and they're definitely comfier and more efficient if you're doing distance or more road riding. I did a 45 mile (long for me) mixed surface ride last weekend on it with ease, which would have killed me on the MTB. That's all to say, they definitely have their place. All IMO of course.
I still wear baggy shorts, mtb jerseys and my trail lid though, and it has flat pedals... so I'm sure I get funny looks from the more roadie gravel riders.
For those of you who intend to return to Mtbs I can really recommend these…
https://togs.com/products/new-flex-togs?srsltid=AfmBOorV7eM5RNXO9VgUbBcOckIqpWE1c3KlmyfvD_3bLlM6FLgwwVfj
They’ve turned my rigid Scandal into my bike of choice.
I saw a group of 3 riders on gravel bikes with huge tyres today but they were wearing road style clothing.
Not sure what was going on but perhaps I can see why if you're a roadie and want a bit more fun and a little less traffic it's a solution.
Just buy a MTB FFS 😂, it looks like the worst of both worlds!
Just worry about your own appearance FFS?
I have a gravel bike on order and I'll be using roadie clothing when riding it most of the time, why? Because I have to ride 15+ miles each way to decent gravel trails (unless I drive) and I'd rather do that without wearing baggies or loose fitting tops etc. And yes I also have an MTB but pretty much only use that at trail centres or other places I need to drive to.
It was my Trek Superfly that got me into gravel riding and I still come back to it now and then for longer and hillier rides
Ironically when I miss the gravel bike most is the flat, fast and twisty singletrack sections where the narrower bars and faster handling makes it much more fun.
Even the relatively 'dated' geometry of the Superfly feels clumsy compared to a gravel bike but for fast flat out descents it's great fun.
I like my 'do it all/monster cross/gravel' Genesis Vagabond.
But I am still not convinced by curly bars, however I am convinced by phat tyres because I can always pop skinny fast rolling tyres on it...
I'm very tempted to look at a flat bar hybrid / adventure style bike, with ability to take 2.1/2.2 tyres with guards, a light enough build, but a good few mounting points.
Definitely the way to go. Canyon Exceed with the right tyres (Racing Ray/Ralph) is nearly as quick as the gravel bike on tarmac and much more comfortable and enjoyable everywhere else...
there's a distinct difference between my Trek Top Fuel 130/120 and my Nukeproof digger with a Rudy fork, granted the Top FUel isnt a true XC bike anymore.
I generally wont do more than 25 miles on the Top Fuel, the digger will still be the pick for any further distances or if there's a decent amount of road/fireroad involved. I'd very much like a 1 bike/ 2 wheelset option for road/gravel, rather than the 2 bikes I've got, a somewhat aggressive 2x gravel bike that's happy with a suspension fork. but I digress.....
£900 doesn't give you the greatest options, but I'd be looking at Sonder Dial's perhaps, the Merida mentioned above, perhaps the new Whyte Sekta (however you spell it), i think you'd want to get a few more quid together and try and get something like a Chisel if possible.
130mm fork and XC hardtail don't usually go hand in hand.
That's what I did OP. I had a Nukeproof Digger I bought in lockdown assuming I'd use it for lots of local exploring. We have woods 15 mins ride away that have some easy tracks I could ride a drop bar bike on. I hardly did that, and barely rode it at all. I took it on the 4 day Marches and Castles tour, and every day I would have preferred an MTB.
So I sold it and bought this Nordest Britango. The only way it'd get into your budget is the way I justified it by using lots of spares I already had. Frame landed in UK was about £650 I think. I've only ridden it twice due to busted collarbone, but so far it's exactly what I want. And running 2xXC tyres that weigh less than one Magic Mary makes a massive difference.
It'll be more than competent enough for loads more trails that I'd have taken the digger down. Until it rains, then I'm back on a bike with some proper tread on the tyres.
The comfort thing is subjective, <40miles I'd agree, beyond that having multiple hand positions starts to trump other factors.
The speed difference is also debatable, you can build an XC bike up with 100mm SID's, 50mm semi slick tyres, carbon seatpost, push on grips, close ratio cassette, etc and end up the same weight as a gravel bike. But you know it'll end up with 2.4" and a dropper after a while.
saw a group of 3 riders on gravel bikes with huge tyres today but they were wearing road style clothing.
Not sure what was going on but perhaps I can see why if you're a roadie and want a bit more fun and a little less traffic it's a solution.
Just buy a MTB FFS
, it looks like the worst of both worlds!
Are you just upset they were on the same trails as you in your enduro pajamas?
Sonder Frontier or On One whippet are looking right
Someone has a large Stanton Sherpa in the classifieds for £850, would that work?
https://singletrackmag.com/advert/stanton-sherpa-853-gen-2-large/
I did similar recently, mainly driven by a wrist injury which made holding on to drop bars painful for more than a few minutes.
Ended up parting out my gravel bike and buying a Specialized Chisel FS (which I've since changed a lot of the parts on) with Racing Ralph/Ray tyres it's almost as quick as the gravel bike was but far more comfortable for me and more versatile.
https://www.stifmtb.com/collections/stif-squatch/products/stif-squatch-v1-1-am-kit
Stif Squatch then change the frame if it's too heavy?
When did the same as you I picked up a second hand Cube C62 Reaction with upgraded parts and 120mm forks for around £600. It was just the job. Moved on from that to a full suss XC bike.
Trouble is, although XC courses have been getting more rowdy, and most FS bikes followed suit, the HT's seem to have been left behind somewhat? Cannondales Scalpel HT was ahead of the curve 4 years ago, but still stands out as one of the few really slack + light bikes? The Voodoo Bizango Carbon Pro was very similar, but seemed to be out of stock for a very long time after it's launch, then seems to have been discontinued. The best of the rest still seem to be hovering around 68deg, which would still have been normal for a 120mm travel bike 20 years ago, we just went backwards due to some pointless worrying about 29ers not steering quickly enough 😂
Stif Squatch then change the frame if it's too heavy?
I's a bargain, but which components exactly do you see as being XC?
i forgot about the bizango carbon
been on sale, a while
Voodoo Bizango Carbon Mens Mountain Bike - S, M, L, XL Frames | Halfords UK
Stif Squatch then change the frame if it's too heavy?
I's a bargain, but which components exactly do you see as being XC?
Are there any reasonably priced 130mm HT's that are much more XC? Anything around that price is going to have just as heavy and probably worse forks, the same or worse group set and cheap wheels. The Squatch finishing kit is decent quality so once again, probably comparable in weight to what you'd find on another bike.
That leaves the frame, which covers the bases except in weight so worth trying them swapping if no good?
As you said, most XC hard tails are still 100/120mm with old geometry.
I'm not convinced there is a right or wrong on gravel bikes. For me there are two significant factors - your local geography and your personal mindset. I suppose you could add the size of your shed to that too. I was a very early adopter of 'gravel', using a cross bike like people use a gravel bike now over 20 years ago. I've got a roadie background and have always come to off road cycling as a journey rather than necessarily a route contrived to hook up as many down hill orientated swoopy adrenaline sections as possible. My eyes are mostly up and looking around me. Gravel bikes are great for that. Also geography - I am lucky to have countless tens of miles of estate track and forest trails straight out of the door. None of them need more bike than a gravel bike or would be better on an XC. That's kind of what gravel bikes were intended for and I'm not convinced too many people in the UK live somewhere that gives them access to that. If I lived somewhere else and I was basically doing a road ride with a mile or two of bridleway thrown in to make it a 'gravel ride' or I was doing rides where the gravel bike was mostly 'under-biked' linked together with a few bits of gravel, I'd probably think differently.
Buy second hand, £900 isn't much budget for a mountain bike. I bought a second hand Cannondale Scalpel HT and it is perfect for highland off-road cycling.
Buy second hand, £900 isn't much budget for a mountain bike. I bought a second hand Cannondale Scalpel HT and it is perfect for highland off-road cycling.
second this
you are right at the budget where you can get a really decent quality used bike inthe current market, or a spec-sheet-compromised new one. especially with the OP's technical knowledge to assess and repair any minor snags on a used bike.
I’m with convert on this; it all depends on local conditions and style of riding. I started in MTB but usually with wheels on the ground. And I lived in Hertfordshire - a land of lots of farm tracks and isolated steeper stuff but nothing technical (perfect for me!) - anything more than a 120 HT is over-biked. Having got introduced to the road and enjoying that, I found gravel bikes the perfect half way house for minimising the boredom of joining up the off road bits and making them a little more exciting, but I can see it being more challenging in many other parts of the country.
I went from 35c panaracer gravel kings on a. Cross bike to 50c panaracer gravel kings on a rigid MTB to a. 2.1 mezcal on the rigid MTB.
I'd rather ride road on the road bike and off road on mountain bikes.
I'd suggest an on one Vandal or scandal with or without a rigid fork. Must be some in budget new or lighter/ better speced secondhand.
Are you just upset they were on the same trails as you in your enduro pajamas?
No idea what enduro pajamas are but whatever turns you on is fine by me 😂
I was in the car and on the road but admittedly I was wearing my full track day gear Inc helmet and race boots as we were on our way to a posh lunch.
My gravel bike. It also takes plus wheels. Multi dimensional biking.
For me there are two significant factors - your local geography and your personal mindset
You can remove local geography from that also, because it just does boil down to mindset... and what type of bike you really want to ride. If you want to ride MTB you'll ride MTB and make the best of what your geography provides, which sometimes entails looking out for and riding things other people don't notice or consider. My local geography (and watching too many Ali Clarkson videos) lead me to take up trials riding.
Nah, m8 lives up in the mountains and dreams of flat roads and spends more time on zwift than expected after moving to Sunny Spain 🙂
But yep mindset, at the end of the day I’ll ride whatever’s not broken and wear whatever’s clean.
A few years back I bought a Giant Revolt " Adventure Bike " 🤔 £500 brand new ! After a year of not using the drops I converted it to a flat bar bike . Eventually I worked out that with a carbon rigid fork it wasn't the most comfortable thing 🙄
Now I just use my 2012 Kona Raijin with 50c Gravel kings and a 120 mm travel X Fusion fork comfort compromise, geometry is pretty much identical to the latest gravel bikes 👍
I picked up a cheap secondhand XC bike this year and have now sold my gravel bike.
The hardtail, which was about a third your budget, is now my most-ridden bike. I've definitely found it's limit, but that's part of the fun.
Not sure if moving to a more modern geometry HT will lose much of that fun on mellow trails.
If not going for a used HT how about a Sonder Dial Deore build? £150 over budget, while the SX build is on for £950, but SX will not last half as well as Deore...
I built this twitchy little b*tch for around £300 (the hope mini mono's were in the spares box). Orbea Alma frame (2012?), Manitou r7's, needs some lighter pedals or spd's really and I think tyre wise a pair of 2.2 Mezcals would be the sweet spot.
[img] 
[/img]
The bars are a touch wide for road work but it's comfy as.
Great for cruising fire roads and gravel tracks and way more capable on rougher stuff than anything with drop bars. Gearing (32 and 11-42) could be lower for techy climbs but fine for anything else.
Also have a Titus El Chulo which is much more capable on techy stuff with a 130mm fork but only marginally slower on the smooth stuff. Can only run a 30T ring on these though
I was in the car and on the road
Hang on, so you saw roadies, on the road, in road kit?
Whatever next!
As you said, most XC hard tails are still 100/120mm with old geometry.
Yea, but I still think if the aim is a gravel-XC hybrid then even an old-school frame is going to feel more nimble in that regard.
Leftfield suggestion, one of the early rigid 29ers like a Singular Swift, there's the occasional 2nd hand bargain. Or On-One Lurcher.
I did just this, had a gravel bike to go alongside a Nukeproof Scout and Full Sus Enduro bike, thought I would use it from the door and bash local lines, bridleways and pebbled heaths.
Turns out it was terrifying on anything downhill, I really didnt like having to be in the drops to cover the brakes, tried a few rides to get used to it, but also the skinny and somewhat hard tyres just pinged around off ride and didnt offer much grip or comfort!
I ended up swapping the DHF and DHR2 on the Scout to what tyres come on the Spesh Epic, think its fast trak an renegade and it feels great. First ride on the Scout with XC tyres was 10mins quicker then my best on the gravel and 60% off that route is tarmac!
So, dont even rule out a slightly aggro hardtail as the right tyres would bring it alive!
Turns out it was terrifying on anything downhill, I really didnt like having to be in the drops to cover the brakes, tried a few rides to get used to it, but also the skinny and somewhat hard tyres just pinged around off ride and didnt offer much grip or comfort!
You tried a few rides and didn't get on with it? I reckon that I spent most of 1996 getting to grips with handling a cross bike, and I've been fine ever since. You should have allowed longer. 😀
I'm with the "gravel bikes are terrifying" crowd.
I love my Pinnacle Arkose as a commuter bike, specifically that I can take it on flat gravel towpaths and fire roads without worrying about punctures etc.
But it's terrifying on even the mildest of MTB trails.
I'm not convinced there is a right or wrong on gravel bikes. For me there are two significant factors - your local geography and your personal mindset. I suppose you could add the size of your shed to that too.
I'm ditching my FS bike Right now and building up a "Hardcore HT" instead, mostly because my opportunities and capability for "gnarr" are much reduced now, so why cling onto the idea that I absolutely need a bouncy bike. At the same time I do still have an "XC HT" as well as a Gravel bike. both of whch very much much suit my local geography... I have room in my life and shed for both Gravel and MTB (and Road bikes too)...
My I put quotes around the "XC HT" because that's not really what it is, it's an old Commencal Supernormal 29 frame which I got off Flea bay several years ago for £50, and it has had several builds over time, ranging from a 120mm forked Lightweight "trail-ish" setup to it's current rigid forked, 1x with a short travel dropper incarnation. it cost me very little and is (currently) great for "grab and go" local loops, at the same time my most ridden bike is my Gravel bike (currently more on the Road).
I do kind of think there's a few people who are just that bit too "ideologically constrained" to countenance riding Gravel bikes, the distain for things with curly bars and any lycra associations are just too deeply engrained, and that is fine really. I'm less bothered about Gravel evangelising these days myself, people either get it or they just want an MTB, and the fact is either is choice is infinitely better than no bike at all.
Hang on, so you saw roadies, on the road, in road kit?
Hang on Herr Rommel, surely you knew where I was as you saw my "Enduro Pajamas" (what are those btw? Never mind your forensic investigation, I really want to know that first, sounds great).
I use a modern XC bike as my main bike for most things off road, and I moved away from using the camino. That just gets used as a road/light gravel bike now. It kind of depends on the terrain and mindset, but after years of trying out various builds on the camino and the XC bike, i've arrived upon my ideal build range to cover my spectrum of riding. It's a light 29er that can be either rigid or up to 120mm xc fork. It's a balance of the right compromises for its intended use, you just need to keep that in focus when choosing. A few points i'd make based on comments above:
- HA isn't the only measurement of modern XC. I still much prefer 69-67 degree HA to keep steering quick and not floppy, but it doesn't make it sketchy, because the frame still has long reach, a dropper, and steep enough SA for good pedalling. It's very capable off road, but not too much for it's intended use. The Squatch above would be a horrible replacement for a gravel bike. Think long, low, slightly slack. That's a really good compromise and where lots of modern XC bikes are at.
- Don't fit 50mm tyres to an xc/mtb. Keep the float but go for fast rolling. I keep a 2.6 mezcal on the front most of the time, because it is fast, but provides comfort and grip when needed, and is better when I run it rigid in the winter. If too-fat tyres are a compromise too far on drop bar bikes, then the opposite is true of skinny tyres on an mtb. It's the wrong combination of compromises.
- Weight matters a bit. You don't need to go crazy, but remain mindful that trail components and tyres will add up to a sluggish feeling XC bike. Keep the forks XC, keep the tyres light-ish and fast rolling, keep light-ish wheels, 2-pot brakes are all you need.
I've been aiming to have a bike that feels light and responsive, but that is capable and fun on a variety of off road situations. It's also fine on the road, I'm lucky i don't need to ride big distances on tarmac with it, but when I do longer sections, it's pretty good. I'm really happy and having lots of fun on the XC bike, and it's where i'm staying. The gravel bike has its uses, but it's just not the majority of my riding, nor the source of most of my enjoyment on a bike.
I too my not really XC Britango out on the kind of ride I bought the gravel bike for. Being limited to road/gravel/easy singletrack it was still way more fun/comfortable than the Digger it replaced. I also ended up doing lots of exploring (okay getting lost in woods I've ridden in for 15+ years!) to the point where I had to reign it in due to increasingly sore shoulder.
It took me 1 min longer to get to the woods (18 rather than 17). It's probably less "fun" on the road as you don't keep the speed you do on the drops, but road riding for me is just getting to interesting places with more fun surfaces.
Also when I am fully healed, I know this bike will be great for lots of trails i found very scary on the digger.
Google has been pushing these at me:
www.saracen.co.uk/products/levarg-fb?variant=41513168240780
Seems like a pretty good deal, none of it is particularly great spec wise, but 11-42 10s will be lighter than 12s, 650b will be lighter than 29". So without spending a lot more to get over the compromises, its a very sensible spec if what you want is a gravel bike that fits the brief of "an updated 90's MTB".
I use an old 29er as a do it all bike, though it's mostly setup for lanes, gravel paths and fireroads.
It's a 2006 fisher 29er, so same design they'd been using since 2002. I think its a 71 HA, 73SA, 70mm BB drop, short stays etc. it’ll only take 2.1" tyres comfortably so I have some lightweight dry weather XC tyres, 11-36 10 speed with 36T oval ring and flit between a rigid fork and an old 100mm reba, flat bars and bar ends and a low rise riser, but I always keep my USE suspension post, so I can manage decent pressures in the rear tyre (somewhere between 35-45 psi) so roady and hardpack sections are quick.
I guess this is the essence of gravel, something quicker than a MTB, geared up for fast tracks but with the ability not to shit it too much when you decide to turn to the singletrack.
Now that most 'MTB's' are focussed on what would once be the remit of the hardcore hardtails and enduro, on normal trails that don't point down much, they are quite slow.
I think it's only a matter of time before a lot of gravelliers realise that most of their regular trails suit a rapid XC hardtail better than a gravel bike. Of course, if you live somewhere like Aberfoyle for example, then a gavel bike will certainly tick the box.
however, if you do swap out for an xc bike, you've either got to go full skinsuit, or baggies. no roady threads allowed 😉
I do wonder if it's like a gravel superhero suit, when you don the rapha you become the hero-who-cant-smile..
what are those btw? Never mind your forensic investigation, I really want to know that first, sounds great
Ever noticed how brightly coloured baggy MTB clothing looks like brightly coloured kids pyjamas? We all like to think we somehow look cool whilst wearing it, but we don't. Thus was coined the phrase DH / enduro pyjamas.
This was brought to a head back in the early days of the internet (well, around the millennium anyway) when some some poor idiot thought it would be cool to post a photo of himself wearing his new full matching 661 kit, in his bedroom. The internet being the cruel and unforgiving place that it is turned this into a meme. This was probably on somewhere long gone like southerndownhill, which would explain why despite my best googling it turns out that maybe the internet does forget*.
So now whenever someone criticizes roadies in roadie kit, that is the image that immediately springs into my head of the poster.
*RIP the gloriously un-woke DMCA'd Moots seat post picture, probably a bigger factor in why I like Ti bikes than any perceptible ride quality 😂
I had a previous model of that Saracen above.. was great fun.. really was... only really used it for commuting.. then decided it would have been better 2x... bought a 2x bike and hated it (Vitus Mach 3), for that price its very good value.
I still rate my cheap road bike and Nukeproof Digger over both the above flat bar bikes for their chosen usage however..
one of my favourite 'gravel bikes' of yore, was my specialized corssroads (I think it was a crossroads) steel frame, steel fork canti brakes, full mudguards, 700x35c michelin worldtour tyres. 600mm flat bars and barends wrapped in bar tape.
it was very comfortable, weighed a bit, was stable, steady and way more capable than I thought it would be. great for fireroad tracks, walking trails and most of the west highland way.
