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Hi there.
After my very, very old Orange Gringo finally died I am in the market for an adaptable hardtail. I really like the Surly Karate Monkey. It will be used for general thrashing about and maybe two week bikepacking/tours/trips but I really wanted something that isn't quite as heavy. I own a 2017 Troll and its a brilliant touring machine but as with all Surlys, its a tank. The KM fits all the requirements I need to be honest, loads of mounts, capable of running a 27.5 plus tyre, rigid or sus forks too, its just the WEIGHT......
Does anyone have any alternative suggestions?
Cheers.
Massive Surly fan here but get where you are coming from.
Not sure of the weight but have you compared the Ribble Adventure?
One alternative suggestion might be to embrace the weight and get fitter/ stronger instead .I actually often ride an Ogre with loaded panniers ( packed with stuff I don't need) ..just to get stronger.
Not sure a lightweight steel version of the KM exists?
Titanium Stooge
Brother cycles Big Brother? No idea on weight tho.
Chameleon?
Does the frame weight make that much difference when it's loaded up with bags and gear? I have a Genesis Longitude that is no lightweight but rides fantastically well. Light rims and fast tyres can make a big difference but the most important thing is fit/comfort for long days. If the KM has all the features you want then I'd agree with others and say not to worry about the extra lardiness.
Thanks a lot for all the ideas, really helpful. I did look at the Chameleon, and as nice a machine as it is, it unfortunately lacked a few mounts and the triangle was really small for running a frame bag. I've just been out on the troll (all my other bikes are knackered) and to be honest, once your out you just get on with it rather than stressing about weight. The Big Brother looks really nice but its rather too similar to the Troll in that its more set up for just touring rather than trail riding with the possibility of a shortish tour.
Agree with the above, just get the grand you want. I’ve owned some portly bikes and it’s never really transferred in to the ride quality. Unless you’re racing for a living or at a highly competitive level I don’t see why it would be of much concern. Just get some light(ish) wheels and enjoy.
The Brother Big Bro is much lighter
The Brother Big Bro is much lighter
How much lighter? Brother website lists frame and fork as just under 3.85kg, Genesis list the Longitude F&F at 3.88kg - Surly state 4.1kg for the KM frame with the Krampus fork, so unless the component choices are very different it's going to end up about the same. Just have a big poo before your ride, problem solved.
I think you are over thinking it. If the rest of the build is the same between two bikes the Fram weight alone will make minimum difference. Especially if bike packing.
What are your list of requirements for a frame?
Travel, tyre width, boost? Threaded BB? Bottle cages, panniers, racks, anything else?
List your necessities and we can make some suggestions.
Are you wanting steel? Or is weight more important?
What's your budget?
Are you wanting a matching frame and fork? Or full build?
Surly always equals overpriced and overweight!
Buy an ebike.
After that the KM will feel like race bike when you lift it.
I’m talking from experience here 😂😂
Marin Pine Mountain at Tredz looks nice?
Salsa Mukluk, carbon for light weight. Run any wheel size you want, lots of bottle/bag/rack mounts, fun trail bike.
Surly bikes are heavy. Lots of people seem to like the way they ride. I've often wondered if the two are related.
Stanton Sherpa? Or Stooge
I could be wrong but I think a Kona Unit frame only comes in around 2.2kg for a medium? That seems pretty good for a cro-mo frame. Maybe an owner here can enlighten us.
Trek 1120 looks interesting.
I've had my KM for about 7 years now and I love it. I don't consider it to be overly lardy at about 14kG with a fairly tight-budget build. Oddly, a friend had a CrossCheck that felt a lot heavier and difficult to see where the weight was. It does have a Knard on the front, and the thick, cheap one at that, but the ride quality more than makes up for it.
Are you looking at the new KM or an old one? As others have pointed out though, the UK price of Surlys has gone sky-high, whereas I think they used to occupy a niche of good value, versatile bikes, they're now priced into fancier territory.
If you're buying steel there's always going to be a weight penalty. I know nothing about the Brother Cycles Big Bro, but it certainly looks the business!
There's also meant to be an update Swift coming out soon; previous Swifts had 3 bottle mounts on the L & XL frames and a touring fork available (not sure if this will still be the case). I think that the new Swift is meant to be boost.
my KM frame in size large (2018, purple) weights 2.92 kg..
the fork 1.41 kg..steerer not cut
more than I expected, frame is not build up so far,
but last year I borrowed the KM from a mate for a weekend and it was just brilliant
with 27.5x3.0..
didn`t notice the weight for a second..
If I was goingto be doingany distance I'd be looking more at fit and function than weight. Just upgrade with lighter /wheels kit if really required. No matter what the weight (and as others have shown, the differences are really marginal) you'll be happier on the bike that feels right.
For comparison between I've tried a Longitude and it felt lighter and sprightlier than my old Raleigh Apex-based camping/bikepacking mutant made from Reynolds K2-girdered gravity-sucking goppingness that I (very happily) used to winch fully-loaded up West-Country inclines. Why happy? Because of perfect fit, strength, loaded well, ran quietly and worked well at carrying me and my stuff in comfort.
Pretty sure I'd have been happier still on either a KM or a Longitude. You really can't 'lose' in that territory, and I'd put 'weight' way down the shopping list with fit and function at the top.
fd3chris
Subscriber
Surly always equals overpriced and overweight!
It's not really though is it? It's a gnats chuff heavier (there's about 5% in the frame weights) than the genesis or Brother equivalent and has bolt through axles to explain it.
Window shopping result just in:
Krampus Ops + Firestarter fork.
That'll do nicely 😎
Take a look at the Esker Hayduke.
The 19"? I think, the large anyway, frame and fork belonging to a riding friend weighed 4lb6oz. Believe that was a 2015.
The full build is chunky but a lot of the stick stuff is heavy. Iirc his was just over 21lbs built, but he went fairly weight weeny.
I've got a KM. I find getting the rear wheel out of the dropouts a massive pain with a rear mech though to the point that I'm considering a change of frame.
Roach I used to find that with my old one so I swapped the car for a 10mm bolt thru and it dropped straight in and out mate
Swapped the car? Bit drastic! 🙂 Would I need a new back wheel?
What are your list of requirements for a frame?
Travel, tyre width, boost? Threaded BB? Bottle cages, panniers, racks, anything else?
List your necessities and we can make some suggestions.
Are you wanting steel? Or is weight more important?
What’s your budget?
Are you wanting a matching frame and fork? Or full build?
One that runs 27.5 to 29 inch wheels. Preferably plus sized. 72mm threaded BB, 3 cage mounts on the frame, preferably capable of a rigid fork with Salsa anything/Blackburn cage compatible mounts and also suspension corrected.
Steel or Alloy but not Carbon.
Ive got about £2200 for eveything.
I would prefer frame and fork, I'll build it up myself.
Im surprised at the price of Surly stuff at the moment, they are pretty interesting/innovative/adaptable bikes and used to be built to a really affordable price but they do seem to be getting more expensive.
I had the same issue with getting the rear wheel out of the Troll, it is a massive PITA but after touring the Americas on one and having about 40 millions punctures you eventually get used to it. Eventually.
Thanks for all the advice, and that Krampus does look nice.
Im surprised at the price of Surly stuff at the moment, they are pretty interesting/innovative/adaptable bikes and used to be built to a really affordable price but they do seem to be getting more expensive.
I think they struggled with distribution for a while and qbp aren't the biggest company in the bike industry so a lot of the prices are basically USA prices + import and vat.
But then ~£700 isn't that much more than cotic, Stanton, singular, bird etc when you consider you get a fork as well.
PSA There's a fully-fledged bikepacking-outfitted ECR on fleabay at the minute
Dunno how that came out as car lol I meant the rear qr
The 19″? I think, the large anyway, frame and fork belonging to a riding friend weighed 4lb6oz. Believe that was a 2015.
The full build is chunky but a lot of the stick stuff is heavy. Iirc his was just over 21lbs built, but he went fairly weight weeny.
Should probably have included the one important piece of info. That's for the Unit.
Another option could be the new generation Krampus. I have run mine 29+ 27.5+ and 27.5 using a Manitou Magnum Pro 120mm which runs A-C of about 550mm (still OK from a warranty perspective - I checked with Surly on that). It runs a high enough BB to get away with using smaller wheels and handles really well. BB height with 27.5 x 3.0" tyres and Magnum fork is about 325mm so no real problems with pedal strike although it may be an issue with the standard steel fork.
fd3chris
Surly always equals overpriced and overweight!
Which you come to appreciate years later when you want to sell it and can still get a decent price for a bike that refused to break when overloaded with bikepacking gear and ridden hard.
Well after some deliberation Ive decided to buy a medium monkey with a Reba fork, ill keep the solid forks for touring trips and the sus forks for day rides.
I just need more space in the shed. And more money.
Thanks for all the advice people.