[Closed] Support Your Local Buke Shop They Said!!

Take it back to the shop - failing that drill the heads off, take it easy and the stem should be fine, once the tension is off the remaining stud should turn out easy enough.

Took my bike to LBS to have forks serviced/warranty work.

If you took the bike to the shop, why were you taking the stem off.
That's their job Shirley?

Next time try a bike shop.
Not a buke shop.

HTH. 😉

Thomson bolts? 😉

It happens mate, a lot more than you'd think! Hammer a slightly oversized Torx bit in, then remove them that way. Then buy some better bolts to replace them!

and some better hex keys

Nowhere near Woodford Green are you? LBS told my technically naive mate, that his notchy hope headset needed changing rather than just swapping the bearings out. Then banged in a the cheapest of pos FSA headset's, and tighten the stem bolts to destruction. Oddly whilst miffed they robbed him on the headset, I was more annoyed about the stem bolts,I just couldn't see why anyone would do that.

An LBS is only as good as the mechanic working on [b]your[/b] bike. There are certainly good ones out there, but damn there are some muppets too. Frankly, my experience is that the ratio of muppets to awesome is at least 4 to 1...and maybe even higher 🙁

Personally, when I do need something specific, I'll always use a one-man-band outfit, where I know the name of the person working on my bike, and trust them explicitly. If the bike is going to vanish into the "mysterious back room", then I'd be supremely nervous.

Of course, the solution is to learn how to do this yourself... 🙂

Ask if they have a torque wrench. I torque all 4mm bolts with a preset tool, 5mm are tougher and generally on cheaper bikes so I don't bother, but some stem bolts are cheesy as hell, 4mm especially.

the basic problem is no one wants to pay enough - so we don't pay the lbs enough so the "mechanics" don't get paid enough to attract decent folk much of the time. How much per hour do you pay to have you car serviced? How much for your bike?

In response to a couple of the above points...

I could not carry out the service on my forks as there was a suspected warranty issue. The issue was an issue and warranty carried out by SRAM/Rcokshox.

The bike was take into them to service the fork they've completed the work, I'm now in the process of stripping the bike to sell the frame form wheels and transfer the rest of the build onto a new bike.

I'm going back Monday and THEY WILL sort the problem. There is no way on this earth they used a Torque Wrench, think it will be as case as above, I know there are some good guys working there but if we probably done by one of the other spanners.

I know some have issues with Thomson but I have 3 stems and had Thomson stems since 2008 and NEVER ever even come close to rounding a bolt, in fact I've hardly as much as marked the bolts!!

If the LBS installed the bolts that tight but didn't damage them and then when you tried to loosen them you rounded them off it suggests that their allen keys are better than yours or you didn't get them fully inserted .

Not going to claim that I have some Parktool Allen keys but the fact of the matter is that I've had Mtb's since 2008, before then I was an avid BMXer and had been building my bikes for 10 years before then since the age of 15.

I quickly learnt about how to avoid rounded bolts in the early days and since mountain biking I've rounded on torque bolt some years back on a disc since I've been mountain biking!

The stem should be tightened to 5.5nm...it's only been a week and 1/2 2 weeks top...I will not accept that I am at fault.

Today I've knocked a larger torx in and tried that and it's just got worse...there is no way in gods earth that said bolt was torqued to 5.5nm!!!

Have they put loctite on the threads?

(Which is still a strange thing to do).

earth that said bolt was torqued to 5.5nm!!!

Prob set it to 55 by mistake :p

How do you want them to sort the problem? Unround the bolt?

Pro tip, maybe think about your tone when you go in tomorrow, this may come as a surprise but reciting your whole mechanical history/length of time riding, demanding/shouting how you cannot possibly be at fault are not always surefire ways to a positive solution...

does the bolt head protrude? two hacksaw blades in a hacksaw and cut a slot in the bolt then undo with a big flat screwdriver. and / or tighten the other one to take the tension off that one.

Sorry dude - but the rounded head is not the LBS fault. Their fault for overtightening but your fault for rounding it

To address a couple of the above I understand I rounded the bolt...but guess what!? had it not been over tightened I wouldn't have rounded it.

What do I want them to do...remove the bolt with out damaging the stem...should it be damaged I'll be expecting a replacement.

As for how to approach it I'm very good at being polite but assertive...as angry as I am I will not go in with a poor attitude or shouting the odds just politely, quietly and assertively getting it resolved!

Very common since Thomson reduced their bolt head size to stop monkeys over torquing and damaging faceplates and steerer clamps.

Have both bolts rounded or just 1

What do I want them to do...remove the bolt with out damaging the stem...should it be damaged I'll be expecting a replacement.

good luck with that. they didn't round it - you did. Not their problem. If you had taken it back before you rounded it fair enough but once you rounded it - your problem.

To address a couple of the above I understand I rounded the bolt...but guess what!? had it not been over tightened I wouldn't have rounded it.

This is why I'm so angry...I know I have no way of proving it was above the recomended 5.5nm.

For those saying ... You rounded it, it was the tool, user error etc, if you'd have taken it back to the shop it wouldn't have happened.

Can I was how much force should I apply to the Allen key/bolt before thinking...Ill take it back to the shop? 5.5nm is very little force, should I have just given it a little squeeze and those this is tighter than recomended torque I'll take it back to the shop, no I applied a little more force, and a little more force and a little more and a little more.

No top bolt has come loose it was stupid stupid tight though, I had to give it everything I could, even after it moved (with a masive creak) it was still stupid tight and happened again with a massive creak, even then it was tight enough in my opinion.

You were turning it the right way I guess 😀

tjagain - exactly the attitude of today that pisses me off...someone can create a situation through shoddy workmanship but are able to wriggle out of it but putting the blame on the people affected by their shoddy work!

Please explain to me why over a corse of 9 years I've never had issue with undoing these bolts and suddenly the two on a stem fitted by said LBS are very very very tight become a problem, tool was good, my technique was good as I was able to undo the top one but even that was punching TV's limit. In fact a 5.5nm I'm not sure it's even enough force to round a bolt!?

zanelad - assuming it's the same way as the one above that came loose following a ridiculous amount of force being applied!

So if any bolt is rounded by a user, is it the fault of the person who tightened it?

You should have stopped attempting to undo as soon as you thought something was up, rather than carrying on regardless.

'I applied a ridiculous amount of force to a bolt and it broke, that's your fault' doesn't seem like a strong starting position on your part.

If you had left it stuck but unrounded I would agree with you - their responsibility to fix but you rounded it - not them therefore its your problem.

YOur hamfistedness / poor tools led to the rounded bolt.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the Mr Angry Hamfistychops, the OP, takes his bike into the LBS...

I do wonder why he took the whole bike in when he was planning on selling the warranty repared forsk anyway, especially as he's such an expert mechanic.

I reckon it's actually quicker remove the forks than stick the bike on/in a car, plus if the forks have to be sent off, half your bike isn't hanging around at at the LBS.

So if any bolt is rounded by a user, is it the fault of the person who tightened it?

Same goes for garages that blast on wheel nuts with unlimited torque, air-drivers and then walk around with the torque wrench going "click, click, click, click" and think they've done a good job.

Without actually seeing it, it's hard to say. Personally, if I'd rounded one off, I'd check the torque on the other and if it's more than, say, 6nm, would return to the shop and explain what happened and that you think they've over-torqued the bolts.

Mr Angry Hamfistychops

Doffs cap, I'm stealing that.

OP- You sound like a dick. Your fault. Soz.

Tbf.../\ he's got a point.

If this had gone;

"Jesus that seems tight, where's my torque wrench? That's been over torqued it's going back to the shop"

then I can see you having a case, as it is, you have no proof that it was actually over torqued, other than your word after having already rounded the bolt.

I've been working on bikes for years and years and years, and I almost rounded an allen key recess on my mate's pedals using a big extension bar to tighten when I thought I was loosening...

That said, I would hope that if you explained reasonably to the LBS what had happened they would at least help to sort you out, particularly as the whole point of having a set torque is to get a level of tension that ensures things will stay together but without damaging stuff - other things could be damaged, including the rest of the stem, if it's been over torqued.

I would have probably taken the forks off myself to deliver them to the LBS if I was bothered about torque wrenches being used etc - but then this is part of the reason why I prefer to do my own servicing.

As usual the levels of condescension on this thread are disappointing 🙁 . If the bolt that came undone gave of a big crack when it was unloosend it was massively over torqued. The op as as a home mechanic isn't expected to have torque wrenches or professional level tools. As a freshly tightened bolt should come out with less effort than was used putting it in, it should have come out with any normal quality hex key. Ignore the "dicks" on here Op, go back to the shop, calmly explain the situation and tell them what they can do to sort it out.

I had this in a shimano crank arm when I stupidly used a ball ended Allen key. To get it off I used a Dremel with a thin cutting disc to carefully cut the bolt in half. Once cut both halves of the bolt came out easy. The non-allen end just needed a score in the end to get a flat bladed screw driver on to it .

To those calling me a dick...go look in the mirror...to me going on a media forum calling some one a dick is well the action of a dick at best! 😆

Secondly glad you lot don't work in customer service! Assume you don't anyway otherwise you probably wouldn't be able to buy all these expensive bicycles.

So the outcome...yes I was having a rant on here but I know how to approach a situation like this when face to face...

The shop was golden, I explained that I tried to undo both and that they seemed overly tight to me, the top one gave way with much force and the lower rounded.

They managed to get the lower one out and replace the bolt. They informed me that it was way too tight and that no grease had been applied, pretty sure that's an acknowledge that I was correct and NOT being a dick.

Despite me not being happy their afterservice was superb.

Have a good day all...I will! 😀

[i]As a freshly tightened bolt should come out with less effort than was used putting it in, it should have come out with any normal quality hex key. Ignore the "dicks" on here[/i]

Agreed. But someone already offered a solution (mboy) - bang a Torx key in.

On an unrelated, but similar note, my seatpost bolt started to round off, due to the number of saddle changes, trying to find the right saddle and positon. I got it out before it was borked and contacted Fizik for a replacement --- £17! £17 for a bolt! 😆 found one that fitted in my tool box.

[edit]Just seen post above mine... Good result OP! Torx not needed 🙂

P.S than Dearn...someone who sees sense and where I'm coming from.

DezB - Member
As a freshly tightened bolt should come out with less effort than was used putting it in, it should have come out with any normal quality hex key. Ignore the "dicks" on here

Agreed. But someone already offered a solution (mboy) - bang a Torx key in.

He tried that .
Well done to the OP sounds like you went in with the right attitude and got the result you wanted .

The stem should be tightened to 5.5nm...it's only been a week and 1/2 2 weeks top...I will not accept that I am at fault.

So if you thought they were at fault, did you get straight in touch with them to say you couldnt get the bolts out, and would they be awfully so kind to resolve as they had clearly over tightened them?

No you decided to have a go yourself, at which point you damaged them.

<cough>

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No you decided to have a go yourself, at which point you damaged them.

But as the stem had only just been fitted it's reasonable to assume the bolt would come out without rounding. It takes a lot of experience to "feel" exactly when a bolt is just about to round out, even then it can happen to professional mechanics. Especially if the hex head has been stretched by over tightening.
In any case it sounds like the LBS stood up and it's all sorted.

To right, shop acknowledged and put it right. Willing to forgive this time based on good after service.

The difficulty is, at what point do you stop and think, this is too tight for me to do?

So many smutty answers, so little time...

The difficulty is, at what point do you stop and think, this is too tight for me to do?

It's all about experience. When you've rounded and snapped a few bolts and not rounded and snapped a few thousand you sort of develop an internal torque wrench.
Personally I reckon I'd have noticed the first bolt was tight, then stopped before I rounded the second one, replaced the top bolt with a brand new stainless steel one, and tightened that as hard as I dared to take pressure off the tighter second bolt. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but if you carry on you bugger it all up!

pretty sure that's an acknowledge that I was correct [s]and NOT being a dick.[/s]

FTFY.

Well done on getting a good resolution though. You clearly put yourself across better in person than you do on the internet, which is not hard.

Good news for the OP.
Im not passing judgement on his methods, as its something we could all have easily done.
One thing I would suggest, if the shop was able to get the bolt undone (he didn't say how, so apologies if I've misinterpreted), perhaps invest in some new allen keys.
I thought I'd written off a crank using a cheap crank remover tool (square taper, tool pushed itself out of the extractor threads). Purchased a decent park tool and the threads were a bit deeper and pushed the crank off.
Tools do wear and with allen keys its definitely worth replacing with some "sharper" ones now and then.