[Closed] STW Zwift Autumn Race Series 1

I do like the difference we are getting in each event

It's a shame bologna isn't available really, would be a nice one for another something different

Looking at past results think I will be about 1:10 next week, closest on my ZP is 8 laps for 56 minutes at an NP of 281W.

Good luck trying to get organising rights on Zwift... Its nigh on Impossible. Even British Cycling only got limited access.
Newbury Velo are one of the only real Cycling Clubs on there, and thats mainly because the Chap in charge headed up Zwift Power (until Zwift took it over last month).

When I did my series, I was lucky enough that the team at 3R allowed me a slot and then set the events to my choosing. However, this means ANYONE can enter. If you have enough riders you will dominate and all is ok. but if you split the categories out and only 10 turn up in each race it looses the community appeal.
Private events are very rare, most invitational stuff is unavailable to normal organisers.

The race element was added to Meetups for pretty much the reasons we are using it. But it needs tweaks on the start procedure and would be much easier for Robbo if you could download results no doubt!

Oh and 10 laps of the Volcano should be acceptable.
Its the Royal Pump Room 8 you want to fear in a race situation! (especially with the non race aerotuck)

Its the Royal Pump Room 8 you want to fear in a race situation

I'm quite looking forward to 10 laps of that. I figure attendance alone will give me a good chunk of points.

I did 10 laps solo, not racing in 1.12, in that I had a couple of interruptions so knock a minute or so off. I'm a mid pack Cat C at best.

Racing with draft that should come down a chunk. It'll be 42 km ish but only 200m climbing, pack speeds will be high.

We've obviously missed the boat now and everyone is committed to zwift but RGT is much better in terms of creating events etc.

thanks for last night everyone, had a great race, and surprised to see I got some points on the board. it took me to my limit!

Annoyingly I am out in Finale Ligure next week, so will miss the next race.

Think I'll slowly die, 10 laps is definitely more than an HR for me. Happy to slog away and get the 10 lap badge, think Robbo will be waiting awhile for me at the end.

Annoyingly I am out in Finale Ligure next week,

Happy to swap if that helps

I'm doing the badger divide next week - looking at the weather I'm also happy to swap.

For the 10 laps of Volcano, there should be plenty of opportunities to jump into passing packs to get a speed boost/shorten the overall time and it'll unlock the 'Hothead' Zwift achievement.

8 laps is a common race length on that circuit. Yesterday's 3R race had a reasonably good showing, and it took them...
a 45-50 mins
b 45-55 mins
c 50-60 mins
d 65-75 mins
( https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1051094)

I'm happy to ride a couple of extra laps for the badge, and also because robbo1234biking's choices have been spot on so far and the contrast with the other rounds in the series is nice. But I think it's true that lots of us are going to be out there longer than an hour next week.

I did the 10 laps once before, back in April, not in a race situation and it took me 1hr 11 minutes. So I'm hoping of an improvement but it will be over the hour mark for me. I remember it being longggg...

I’m doing the badger divide next week –

TB or no TB, that is the distinction.

Thanks for yesterday's race

I started by stalling and falling off my rollers in the neutralised bit, I was the one in blue stopped just after the start/finish gantry.

It was a hard sprint, but I managed get back to the front group before the hill, then a bunch of people who were clearly out of my league pulled away when the proper climbing started.

I settled into a rhythm riding by myself about 10th, but then for some reason my power was intermittently cutting out and I fell back to a group of 4 setting a good pace up the hill - I was falling off the back of that group every time I had a cutout and then pushing hard to bridge back to the group each time. On the downhill that group quickly pulled 15s ahead of me during another power cutout.

The power cutouts were getting pretty frustrating and I was contemplating throwing in the towel, but I persevered and ended up with not just one but two points, yay.

Just got an ANT+ USB stick, hopefully that'll fix things.

For the 10 laps of Volcano, there should be plenty of opportunities to jump into passing packs

The power cutouts were getting pretty frustrating and I was contemplating throwing in the towel, but I persevered and ended up with not just one but two points, yay.

Just got an ANT+ USB stick, hopefully that’ll fix things.

Getting a cable and placing my ANT sensor under the bike fixed power dropouts I was having a few months back.

After listening to feedback on here and looking at a couple of races on the circuit I think it is best to reduce it to 8 laps (from 10) for Race 3. 10 Laps would have some of the slower riders out n the circuit well over an hour and I think only 20% or so would complete it inside an hour from my estimates.

This is a difficult one to judge as the effect of the draft will be very relevant here so the time gaps tend to be more grouped this time. FTP rather than weight is key on this course although there are a few small kickers to try and get a break from the group.

We spawn on the bridge before the volcano. I will give a bit more time for the group to form this week. I will be saying go after we enter the volcano but before the start/finish line so will be about 300m on which I will say go.

Looking forward to it! See you all Tuesday.

Handicaps here

Conveniently there is an 8 lap volcano race starting now. Nice bit of practice.

If I stay on the course after the race, will it keep me on the volcano lap, in case I fancy doing another two laps to get the badge thing?

Yes stumpy so if anyone wants to get the badge just stay on for a 2 lap cool down!

Cool, thanks!

Lol that went ok nixie

Yeap I'm happy with that. Wasn't a high pace meaning I could try some attacks. Took the lead on the line. Haven't won a sprint for ages!

I'm in. I reckon be doing the extra 2 laps after the event also. 👍

I just can't get my head round zwift racing. Did a b race today, came 18th out of 27 yet had 5th best power to weight ratio. Fair enough, I assumed everyone ahead of me had far more power. But a good few had way less of both. The guy that came ariund 12th for example put out 30 less watts and 0.5 kilo per kg less less than me.

The obvious answer is hes using the draft well, however when I'm sitting in the pack I'm still having to put in a good effort. It doesn't seem to make that much difference to me, yet others seem to be able to sit there doing bugger all.

^^ Where did you come on Zwiftpower mate?

The sticky draft can mean you can get away with a lower effort than you think to stay in a pack. You have to pay attention and occasionally ramp up to reposition however you can get away with a lot less than you think. E.g. I've stayed in A packs before putting out 2.5wpkg. If you then never hit the front I can believe the number differences.

@robbo1234biking - I tried to PM you but not sure its working. I've never done any racing on Zwift before but I fancy it... is it possible to join? How the heck does it work?

(Apologies if I'm asking questions already answered but I cant see any 'guide' anywhere)

Who's tapering then, whos ready, who's tired ?

I'm 50-50. Legs should be getting there now, but the fitness isn't where i'd like it to be. So i'll need to position myself well and then basically hang on till i die within group2. I don't expect to hang with Nixie, phil etc, so G2 for me i think. I'll likely be in trouble as Dangerbrain will go with the As, so will be the usual B/C crew of LAger, Oop North, Dobski etc for me, but not sure how they're handicapped as to our overal positions.

@snotrag

Follow me on Zwift R. obbo1234biking. I will send you the meetup invite.

Let me know your FTP and weight (think you will have to post on here as the messages don't seem to be working). I will work out your handicap.

Other than that turn up tomorrow evening. It is a neutralised start so different to normal zwift races but once I say go race as hard as you can. Tomorrows is a circuit race so a little different to the first race. There should be bigger groups, attacks as a faster group comes round and people try and stay on the back etc.

@robbo1234biking I've added you on Zwift, (Simon). 79kg, 288FTP last time I tested it a month or so back.

I'll try work out how to join and give it a bash !

Cheers - will get you added thanks!

Dangerbrain will go with the As

If he feels tomorrow like he does today he'll be struggling to go with the Ds to be honest.

I hate my weak pathetic constricted skull tubes. 🙁

get out of it... we both race enough to know, when the gun goes even if you only last 5 mins, you'll be going with the As, in exactly the same way as i'll be trying to go with the fast Bs.... for the first lap until we hit that kicker to the line anyway 🙂

I'm tired. 3 blocks of 13x 30/15s last night. Didn't feel that bad during or after but this morning my legs are tired. Not sure how to approach it this week. There is nice cluster of us with 15/16 mins handicap. Seems like a better idea to try and take advantage of the larger group speed than trying to escape off the front. My money is on one of the powerful Cs taking the win this week.

when the gun goes even if you only last 5 mins, you’ll be going with the As

Not true.

I've been me long enough to know that despite my inability to make it stick on a good day I'll still be trying to go in front of them 😉

Again...i'm looking forward to this..but flats ain't my forte...

I'm leaving my DT swiss wheels on, but switching to the tarmac sl7 frame...

Hopefully will get home from work early, so as to be able to have a nice long 100-150w warm up... honestly, 40 minutes of leg spinning before last race and I felt so much better than race 1.

Will try to get the twitch stream working again also..

DrP

I'm not sure on this one, yesterdays Sunday ride took a bit out of me, followed by a day reconstructing an old brick shed and roof, got some aches.

I can see handicapped with the usual crew, but I know all of them have more in the flatter races, I'm comparing to the first race of the series in France. Sometimes the hills help me, even though I'm no lightweight, as it gives me a break from the all out speed and I can pace myself.

I'll see how it goes and if I'm struggling I'll just drop in with a group accordingly, for me the fun outweighs the results!!

You can pick up with me on about lap 4 when I plow through your group a missile suddenly transformed into a whale.

@dangeourbrain - Can you update the GoFundMe link to state that all money raised from the series will go to Cardiac Risk in the Young Charity?

It should be on the description already but...

It should be in the description at this point but, in aid of Cardiac Risk in the Young

It was suggested we raise a few bob for Robbo as a thank you for organising all this but he's very kindly requested any funds raised go to charity.

So if you've a few pennies to spare and you're enjoying Robbo's efforts, chuck a few quid in the pot and it'll go to CRitY on Robbo's behalf at the end of the series.

Done!

Oh and Brian, I don't believe you! I'm sure you will be plowing through, one or two laps ahead of us 😉

Balls, midday Crit race has bumped my FTP up to 282W. 12 W increase since last Sunday.

Well I'm planning on running home from the office this evening which will either make or break me Craig, I'm hoping for the former but given I hate running at the best of times and can't remember the last time I did more than 10k let alone 10 miles I'm not expecting much.

That said I've got it easy tomorrow, lose no more than 8 seconds a lap to Mr revel and keep up with Phil and nixie to the line, sounds like a walk in the park, I might even have a few beers before hand.

Well done Chris, good increase! Your now 10 FTP ahead of me, looks like you are in for a handicap change!! 😉

I'm rooting for you Brian, I know you have it in ya!! And if not, then come and join me in a pootle.

Keep up? Don't you need to beat us to the line :D.

I’m rooting for you Brian, I know you have it in ya!! And if not, then come and join me in a pootle.

Fortunately I'm working on the theory it's a win so long as I enjoy it, so, assuming I can crawl onto my turbo tomorrow I'm happy.

Keep up? Don’t you need to beat us to the line :D.

Yeah, but I'm assuming my winning the sprint is a given...
I mean I've got to be better at something, right?
(that and I'm saving a hilarious joke for the final 100m in the hope you'll be laughing too hard to breathe properly so I can sail past)

That said I’ve got it easy tomorrow, lose no more than 8 seconds a lap to Mr revel and keep up with Phil and nixie to the line, sounds like a walk in the park, I might even have a few beers before hand.

8s... jeeeez that's not a lot... I'm thinking around 5:50 per lap will be about ball-park. My PR round 'Mariokart' is 5:26 i'd generally average 5:45 for an 8 lapper back in the day

https://www.strava.com/segments/14037363?filter=overall&gender=all

The fast STWers are 4:52 with big Phil at 5:07 for it... Howlett at 5:12

Cheers Brian - that will be a good result if we can raise some money for charity!

mrhoppy - you need to stop trying so hard! You seem to be really growing at the moment. I will double check but I don't think that will change your handicap this week as I have grouped them more (if we were in the mountains however...)

midday Crit race has bumped my FTP up to 282W

Full Zwift FTP test lowered my FTP by 1W does that change my handicap 😀

Think my strategy tomorrow will be to try and hold Brian's wheel. 🙂

I think we'll be doing more like 5.30 tomorrow at the front. There aren't enough to go much faster than that. The race I did on Sunday was in that ball park and we had a bigger group of As and an A+.

Yeah, but I’m assuming my winning the sprint is a given…

Is that before or after you kill your legs with a 10 mile run :D. I suck at sprinting so that's not actually a bad plan (and hence why I don't intend to be there for the sprint).

I will double check but I don’t think that will change your handicap this week as I have grouped them more

Feel free not to change it, I'm quite liking my handicap this week compared to the pack I finished round 1 with. 😉

(and hence why I don’t intend to be there for the sprint).

I feel your pain there, especially as it's an uphill finish. But whether i can gap whatever riders i'm grouped with when i need to is very much open to debate.

Robbo, we got power ups ?

The fast STWers

In fairness I think the flat course sould be alright for me on paper*, I've not gone stalking but imagine nixie, TP, Charlie et al probably have the harder time of it as I'm guessing they're all quite a bit lighter than Phil and I (and some of others) so unless their ftp is huge that's a lot of w/kg to keep up with those of us at 300W plus.

*one of these days I'll live up to my paper billing...

Is that before or after you kill your legs with a 10 mile run :D.

If I make the start line I'll make the finish, admitedly I might be averaging 3w all the way round and 8-10 in the sprint but I *will* sprint the line.
(also running today will ruin my legs on Wednesday, tomorrow will be fine and I'll think I've gotten away with it, that's how running works)

I suck at sprinting so that’s not actually a bad plan (and hence why I don’t intend to be there for the sprint).

And I've never seen Phil sprint so I'm making the obvious logical leap he doesn't.

Charlie might be the greatest sprinter ever but he's like schrodinger's cyclist. I can't see him so I can't know.

Yep power ups are available!

Not keen on the flat in Zwift, despite my 96kg. Might try pushing trainer difficulty right up, might help with the MTB gearing?
Its a 7 speed Dawes, I was tempted to use my road bike but that would mean dragging it upstairs etc.

A quick search suggests it only affects gradient changes so if it's totally flat, I guess it'll make no odds.

@snotrag - your handicap is 13:30. You should have the invite now.

I expect a C to potentially take this win - there are some decent power outputs in the C cats but weight holds back on the climbs. On this course this shouldn't be as much of an issue so if they can hang on with a B pack gives a good opportunity.

Might try pushing trainer difficulty right up, might help with the MTB gearing?

Trainer difficulty shouldn't effect the flat, it's a % of difficulty of % gradient essentially so regardless of how high or low it is it makes no odds on a 0% incline. Its not supposed to increase the out and out resistance.

That said, it is zwift software so it likely doesn't work as you'd expect nor as its supposed to.

I have no idea what to do this week. Last week I thoughted I'd pretty much aced it for what I can realistically achieve - I set a pretty quick pace from the off to try and discourage a few of the climbers, I set a PB on the KoM (347w average!) and then chased down Brian's group on the decent and dropped most of them on the kicker at the end - all for 27th place!!!!

I think I need to dream up a Plan Z - none of the others have worked so far!

looking at the average wattage up that innsbruk climb is interesting...
Phil was 346, Gary Larger 335, and me 301...

I'm assuming you guys are in the 80kg + mark??

DrP

all for 27th place!!!!

It's a shame but the series thus far has not been favourable to faster, heavier riders. What is different about this week is laps - is it a viable strategy to ride as hard as possible i.e. unsustainably fast, until you can lap the slowest riders? At least that way you'll be able to start drafting groups of riders as you pass through them, which is where the biggest gains come from (and which AFAIK Robbo's algorithm doesn't really take into account)?

I am a mere slip of a man at 93kg. Was looking forward to raging some Watts tomorrow but unfortunately have come down with the back to school ague, so don't think I'll be fit for it. Have a good one - will be a hard race.

looking at the average wattage up that innsbruk climb is interesting…
Phil was 346, Gary Larger 335, and me 301…

Look at the race average for a real giggle.

Phil managed 284 average to my 300 and still beat me.*

I made 324w up the hill @ 79kg, Got my pb but only managed to beat Phil over the top by 13 seconds.

I think roughly the same power and weight gap between you and me DrP and you put a huge chunk into me.

*I thunk there's something very odd with the numbers, that or zwift really does hate me

I think I need to dream up a Plan Z – none of the others have worked so far!

As it goes I've a suspicion that - assuming I can manage the effort - I'll do OK this week as it's the course I like least. Tends to be the way.

is it a viable strategy to ride as hard as possible i.e. unsustainably fast, until you can lap the slowest riders? At least that way you’ll be able to start drafting groups of riders as you pass through them, which is where the biggest gains come from

I'd guess not - I'd guess that's worse not better, getting stuck in the wrong draft could see you dropped completely if you're unlucky. I'm thinking it's going to need a bit of welly to leapfrog groups rather than risk getting stuck. I'm not expecting to be doing any lapping until at about half way either as the big bunch of C ish will be moving pretty quick because of their numbers compared to those out front. going all guns for 20 min or more would see me falling off way before the finish.

I’m not expecting to be doing any lapping until at about half way either as the big bunch of C ish will be moving pretty quick

You just need to look at the London Hare and Hounds we did, eventually we started getting wound in but it took a good long while.

My own tactics will be the same as every Zwift race, go like the clappers and try and stay with the leaders until I’m 95% cooked then drop to the next group that I can hopefully sustain for the duration and try not to get gapped on any kickers.

From my fag packet calculations, I’m no great mathematician,I can’t see a strong mixed B/C group doing 250/260w (lead) being lapped until towards the end of lap 7 or start of 8.

If it’s further into lap 8 a few strong riders may jump on and even if they get dropped up the hill to the finish will create a nice gap and a decent combined time.

I thunk there’s something very odd with the numbers, that or zwift really does hate me

Have you not turned off the "zwift bully me" function? DO that first... 😉

Do you think different wheels/bikes make a BIG difference too?

I was reading on zwiftinsider about the different frames etc..and they hark on about "frame X had 16 seconds over frame Y, on a 90 minute flat ride" etc etc... I eman, YES, that is faster, but it's not ground breaking???
I guess every little helps!

DrP

Do you think different wheels/bikes make a BIG difference too?

Probably less than whether my lunch consisted of pie with salad or pie with pie.

Have you not turned off the “zwift bully me” function? DO that first… 😉

Whoa, you can turn that off? Every time I mouse over the slider the damn thing moves to somewhere else on the screen

Pretty much there is one attack point where it kicks up for a little bit on each lap from the strava segment. Is that pretty much it. Sorry didnt do much homework

Yeah, essentially speaking that'll be where the light guys go. The heavy guys will go 1.5km earlier when leaving volcano on the run down to the S bend and Spanish galleon

Two surges per lap. Presumably Downhill less than up woth aboutba k in between. Got it cheers weeksy

Is that before or after you kill your legs with a 10 mile run :D.

Well I took the slightly less flat short cut as I definitely didn't have the extra in my legs so a bit over 9mi in the end. It hasn't actually killed me or my legs but I was slow may have been over confident thinking they'll be fine tomorrow.

Proper enjoying the series and looking forward to tomorrow. I'll be implementing my usual careful strategy of slogging my guts out until I get dropped, then repeat with the next group, and the next, and so on.

I tried something slightly radical last night and jumped on a road bike for it to test handlebar position. It was better in some ways worse in others, but i do like the way i can seem to respond to surges better on the roadie over the MTB. However i still had issues at 11km with the pace, i just couldn't hold it and didn't want to totally fry my legs before today, so called it a day.

It was lucky i tried the bike as it's a mates bike and i found this.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50343697073_2c212dd437_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50343697073_2c212dd437_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jGGBc8 ]2020-09-15_07-53-33[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

Properly seized headset, but happily one of my spare headsets was a nice flush fit, so installed that and it's silky smooth again.

However, i'll be back on the 29er tonight.. But may fit a new tyre on the turbo as the Tacx one is very much worse for wear. I don't think it'll help anything in a perofrmance context, but it'll be a nice shiny one.

Don't think I'll be racing tonight, woke up feeling rough, jumped on the bike to spin the legs and I had no energy, felt empty. So I binned it.

Think I need a few days off, a lot going on with 70% redundancies at work which isn't helping. I definitely don't have the energy to keep up with you lot! Maybe some time off will get the fire back.

I'll see how I feel later and if I dont ride I'll see if I can watch live.

Remember race to the blue banner – the meetup distance countdown is accurate in this respect – it is just under the level indicator bar. As I have to plug in the distance it may not correspond with the actual banner which is typical on the Volcano circuit.

Race start - neutralised as below but more time to congregate this week. I will say go at some point between entering the volcano but before the line so be ready. Congregate on the beacon prior to this (I may be behind you based on last week!)

STW Series Rules/Information

1. This is a handicap race series. The race will be a mass start with the handicap applied to the results at the end of the race. Your handicap can be found at link a few posts back.
2. Any bike is allowed – choose what you think best suits the course. Also wear what kit you want. Traditionally we have worn the bumblebee for Zwift meetups on STW so if you are unsure that would be a good choice.

3. Race starts – as the meetup function is being used we will have a rolling neutralised start. Once the meetup starts I will gently pedal at about 100W. You should adjust your position to congregate on me (I will be very visible with a bright yellow beacon if you haven’t used the meetup function before). As soon as everyone is in a swarm/peloton I will type GO GO GO which will appear across everyone’s screen – then race how you want!

4. Race finish – the race ends when you cross the blue banner. Make sure you race until the blue banner not any other finish lines/sprint line etc on course. Because meetup view is being used this may be a few hundred metres past a sprint line or similar. It is clearly visible on both the map, the distance countdown on the top bar and in view on the screen. Once you finish you will get a results screen displayed. Once this happens you can choose to leave the game, cool down etc. I will stop short of the race finish to remain in the game (my time isn’t counted anyway to any points finish) and provide encouragement and ensure everyone gets across the line (I might just be last anyway!).

5. Results – I will publish the results on the forum within an hour or so of everyone finishing. There will be the overall results. Top 3 from A, B, C and D and then the handicapped results. Points for the series title (and prizes) will be based on the handicapped results. Zwift Cats are based on the cats from Zwift and the FTP and weight you provided me so might not match historical data in ZP etc.

6. Points – points will be awarded for 1st through to 30th so the series will award consistency and hopefully give everyone an opportunity to score results.

7. In game comms – It is a meetup so only messages sent in the race will be seen. I will prob type some messages etc and reminders for encouragement during the race but feel free to join in with any banter, let us know you have fallen of your turbo, the cat has run through the spinning rear wheel and got its tail caught in the chain, you need another frozen sausage etc!!

8. HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOURSELF!