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Cracking stuff.
Im on zwift as Steve Scott.
Thought I'd played a blinder with an early sprint only to be caught right at the line. Not sure who as my 190 HR was making my vision shake.
Can't make next week, but looking forward to 2 weeks time.
Cheers stumpy!👍
Drat, didn't scrape a point, must try harder...and lose some lard.😁
I'm broken today. I clearly needed that more than I realised.
Thanks again robbo
Yeah Zwift riding this morning after last nights efforts was not the best idea, the legs were struggling.
Shows how much we all put into it, looking forward to next week!
i tried but i didn't go all in yesterday that's for sure. If someone had kicked from the group 10km out i'd have gone too, but i wasn't going to try on my own that's for sure. Legs feel OK today but i'm planning on the week off with the dodgy hand and just doing the STW series as rides until the plaster comes off.
Looks like it might have potentially been a wifi drop out that caused my issue. On the PC if wifi drops out it causes the game to freeze completely apparently. So in order to prevent disaster next week I have ordered a network cable and will hard wire the laptop. In addition I will add my wifes account onto the meetup list so if the PC crashes I can use her account to at least send messages!
I made a couple of small errors on the results so if you notice anything let me know. THey will remain provisional for 48 hours after the race when they will change to final.
Will work on the handicap for next week. It worked well and gave close results for the vast majority of riders but I think the fastest riders had too much to make up so I will adjust is slightly for that.
Invite for next week should go out tonight.
I think the fastest riders had too much to make up so I will adjust is slightly for that.
I agree, but that was always going to happen on the flat courses. Zwift is very favourable on the flat ones to slihgtly slower riders who can grab a wheel and hang on, so the As were never going to make up that ground. On next weeks i think they'd be closer.. but yeah, give them a bit back 🙂
Will work on the handicap for next week.
I did the 7 days of tarmac ride on that loop recently, I think a few others did. Happy to drop you my times if it helps you with calibration.
great stuff from all involved last night - it was really enjoyable in a strange way 🙂
i'm hoping that jumping in at the deep end with Zwift and getting into the races is going to have a great benefit on my FTP and general fitness...I certainly need to improve after last nights performance..
U.z.
not going to moan too much about the format given the results 😎 however I still think that a "chase" would be fairer to the faster (and indeed slower) riders as they'd get to benefit more from the draft effect, which as we saw was HUGE. As it was the mid-pack riders could just blob-up to exploit the draft, and even then the faster riders with more of a handicap would have to make a successful breakaway at some point (which is tough!) whereas slower riders just have to keep up with them for the "win".I think the fastest riders had too much to make up so I will adjust is slightly for that.
It was great though, really enjoyed it! Awesome workout. Great that so many turned out too (where were all these people for the Team Time Trial? 🤔😂)
I think the fastest riders had too much to make up so I will adjust is slightly for that.
I wouldn't change it - even though it meant I got pasted!
If A cat riders need a competitive race with a podium place up for grabs there's plenty of options available for that on Zwift already.
The great thing about what you've put together here Robbo is how inclusive it is, with riders making their Zwift debut and joining in the pre and post race banter. Hopefully when folk see themselves further up the leader board than they expected it will motivate them to become regulars - maybe even join our Time Trial Team!
I'm motivated to try and get at least a point next week having dropped thirty places in the handicap this time! I still get a great workout and it's more enjoyable riding with you guys.
This first event was a spectacular success - apart from the start (!) no changes required IMHO.
Phil
I really enjoyed that Robbo despite blowing up on the dam viaduct thing!
Bit of a noob question, but the activity doesn't show up as a race on ZwiftPower - is that because it's not an official / open Zwift race?
Flat courses obviously favour heavy but fairly powerful riders, like me. 9 mins over such a short course did seem a lot though. Anyway, I’m happy with the result, and getting a few points. Any adjustments to handicap to make it easier for me are most welcome, but I don’t feel aggrieved!
Thought it went well, i do however agree that the handicaps for the fastest folk are a bit unfair. Last night's winner on the road came near the bottom of the handicap table. That said it's never going to be an exact science and it's only a bit of fun so who really cares!
I got caught out at the start. This format is punishing when you are on the back foot.
- I tried to bridge to the front group as soon as I realised I had missed the boat. It was impossible. I got a personal 1 minute power record (by quite some margin, 354 or 4.8w/kg --> 414 or 5.6 w/kg) out of it before I sat up and settled back into...
- ...the group in poopscoop's pictures above. that group rolled along nicely. I pushed on as we approached the aquaduct, hoping some of them might follow but ended up on my own. There were some solo rider ahead, but a big gap to the next group so after that I was really always more likely to get caught again than catch another group up the road.
No complaints though - I might have scored no points, but I had a fun workout. And it was great to see so many familiar names in the sidebar. Thanks so much robbo for the immense effort you are putting into this.
I very much enjoyed the race, especially the entertainment with the start. Was nice to not be on my own at the back for a few minutes, until S.Figg realised we had started and then easily dropped me.
Will happily be the back marker for the rest of the series.
Going to do another ramp test, don't think the FTP I originally supplied is anywhere near what it is now (last taken 7th june).
Cheers for organising this Robbo, see ya all next week.
I enjoyed it last night too, thanks for organising it Robbo. I wouldn't worry about the handicaps favouring the weaker riders just yet anyway, I suspect a lot of those used to riding on Zwift (me included until later in the race) hadn't realised that the normal tactic of hiding in the best bunch you can, saving some energy for the sprint to get the best place, doesn't help if the rest of the bunch gets less handicap applied. You need to get the fastest average speed for the whole race you can manage, whether that means constantly pushing your bunch to go faster or launching a solo attack from long range. Placing is irrelevant only average speed matters 🙂
until S.Figg realised we had started and then easily dropped me.
I'll be climbing with him next week matey, so if you can grab our wheel, come join us....
mahowlett
Member
I enjoyed it last night too, thanks for organising it Robbo. I wouldn’t worry about the handicaps favouring the weaker riders just yet anyway, I suspect a lot of those used to riding on Zwift (me included until later in the race) hadn’t realised that the normal tactic of hiding in the best bunch you can, saving some energy for the sprint to get the best place, doesn’t help if the rest of the bunch gets less handicap applied. You need to get the fastest average speed for the whole race you can manage, whether that means constantly pushing your bunch to go faster or launching a solo attack from long range. Placing is irrelevant only average speed matters 🙂
Yeah it's a different type of racing - as I've said earlier, in the little group I was with I tried to split it a couple of times but it didn't happen so we ended up in a sprint finish for position.
Afterwards, I thought that in reality we would have been better TTTing to the finish to get the fastest time but even later I realised by finishing as a group I hadn't made up any time on at least Weeksy so due to the handicapping he beat me to the points.
Ideally I think you need to know who you're grouped with on the road, who you need to (try to!) get rid of or stick to and race accordingly.
Edit - when I say "at least Weeksy" I meant because I knew he had 15 seconds on me and I've ridden with him a fair bit so know his riding style etc. I don't mean "at least Weeksy" as in he should have been the easiest to get rid of - as evidenced by not getting rid of him even though he had a broken scaphoid!
beaten by a 1 armed bandit...
In other news... i've got CT scan on Fri and my arm gets longer term plaster...for 8 weeks !!!!!
To be fair @weeksy, more people were beaten by the one armed bandit than not yesterday!
Hope your wrist is healing OK. Will you still be riding, or will the longer term plaster get in the way more?
The winners in these races, especially the flatter ones, will be the "weakest" (on paper!) rider who can stay with the fastest group. And like @phil56 almost said up there somewhere: the weekly TTT is excellent training for exactly that...
I also ended up in poopscoops group, didnt notice anyone going off the front so have ordered a tablet holder so that i can see whats happening ahead, rather than just focussing on power numbers. As it was my first race i underplayed it a bit will probably blow up next week half way up the hill, i did enjoy it, want some points though....unlikely for Innsbruck, at least i have ridden that course before!
Ideally I think you need to know who you’re grouped with on the road, who you need to (try to!) get rid of or stick to and race accordingly.
This. I'm looking at you Weeksy, DrP and Mr Hoppy 😉
Will you still be riding, or will the longer term plaster get in the way more?
I'll still be riding mate, although next Tues i'll be cruising with Figg as no matter how hard i go up the KOM i can't get a point in it, so will just go up at 2.2w/kg or so with my mate, i'll then put a shift in the week after. There's no reason the plaster will be any worse than the current one i have
Tell you lads what was interesting last night... Should maybe go in the other thread on Zwift, but as it's related to last night, i'll throw in here.
I was riding using the phone and Zwift app over Bluetooth. Hence i don't have cadence or HR on. But weirdly it also seemed to change where i was in the gearing too. Through that snakey section which was i think -1% i was spinning out on 40 11 gearing, normally that's quite a tough gear to grind in even on a slight downhill. So a little strange it was different over BT than Ant+
i was spinning out on 40 11 gearing, normally that’s quite a tough gear to grind in even on a slight downhill.
Not sure that's Bluetooth vs ant+ to be honest. I have odd days [same setup] where I'm pedaling like the clappers to hold the same power.
I usually put it down to needing to calibrate or having left my turbo switched on and just waking it up.
I calibrate most times i use it, certainly before any races of interest.
"I’ll be climbing with him next week matey, so if you can grab our wheel, come join us…."
Don't believe a word of it.
He gives it all of that then clears off. Whatsapp'd to find out where Mr "I'll give you a draft, I'll be cruising at 180w because of my wrist" had got to, no response. Then you see he's smashing the sprints.
Race you for the Lantern Rouge title.
@weeksy Any chance your mobile Zwift app and your laptop Zwift have different "trainer difficulty" settings?
If I'm thinking of the same "snakey" section, very undulating like parts of Titans Grove, it's horrid to get into any sort of riding groove at 100% setting.
The winners in these races, especially the flatter ones, will be the “weakest” (on paper!) rider who can stay with the fastest group
Exactly this..I think after handicaps I was the leading cat A rider, however I'm also the cat A with the biggest handicap as my w/kg is bang on 4. So my plan was bust my balls for first 5 min to stick with the fast group and then hang in for rest, which when you are in the pack is not so hard to do. There was no way the 2 guys that went off the front were going to put 2+ minutes into the chase group yesterday so all I had to do was sit in and I'd score some good points.
That said, when I say sit in I still had to put in the highest watts per kilo of all the chase pack just to keep up with them. So the likelihood of me ever being able to attack off the front is absolutely zero.
Cheers Crust, will try to hang on with you and weeksy but can here the lantern calling my name.
There was no way the 2 guys that went off the front were going to put 2+ minutes into the chase group yesterday
Yeah that wasn't going to happen however if there had been 2 more with us at a similar power we possibly could have.
Where were all these people for the Team Time Trial?
In my defence, I did finish fortieth out of forty-five last night (and fourth-last after the handicap applied). Hardly the sort of help needed in a TTT.
I am hoping to improve next Tuesday if I can find my lucky socks.
The TTT does get a bit spicy for me as a Cat C, generally get dropped after the 3/4 mark or on any sort of half decent climb - I was wondering if there'd be any takers for a Cat C/D team from the STWZARS riders?
I'd have a wobble in cat c. I really don't know what I'm doing though as I not done a race just a week ago. Last night was good fun though
STWZARS riders?
Single Track World Zwift Attributable Respiratory Syndrome?
I really don’t know what I’m doing though
Sounds like you're a perfect fit for our team to be honest. Heck I still have stabilisers on my turbo.
If anyone else wants to join in next weeks event entries are now open again. Send me a PM or post on here with your FTP and weight and I will get you added on to the list.
Thanks
I was wondering if there’d be any takers for a Cat C/D team from the STWZARS riders?
YEah. I'd be much happier being in a TTT where i'm actually able to contribute to the team rather then just dying 1000 deaths trying not to get dropped.
Sorry if that sounds unfair fellas.. but it's a bit demoralising just being destroyed in 2km of hanging on.
Yeah that wasn’t going to happen however if there had been 2 more with us at a similar power we possibly could have.
Looking at the power outputs there was a clear gap between the first 2 riders and the chasing group. Unless we have a couple of very strong riders waiting in the wings who didn't ride this week then I can't imagine any of the rest of the field is going to be able to hang with you in future races.
The winners in these races, especially the flatter ones, will be the “weakest” (on paper!) rider who can stay with the fastest group.
I was very much helped by this last night - I was definitely the lightweight in my group and spent the whole ride clinging onto the back, and then getting a boost from the handicap.
In the flat races a handicap system hurts the fast guys doing the hard work at the front of any group and helps us wheelsuckers - but you can’t adjust for that because you never know how the groups will split up.
It’ll be interesting to see how it works out next week with everyone getting sorted out by W/kg up the long big hill in the middle then scrabbling to regroup later.
Looking at the power outputs there was a clear gap between the first 2 riders and the chasing group.
Not sure on the gap at that end as neither nixie nor his partner in crime (whose name escapes me sorry) are in my followed list but...
Phil was at broadly similar W to me yesterday, finished a good chunk ahead after I lost touch on the descent.
Zilog's group caught the three of us in the middle with about 700m to go. There was a 90W gap between zilog (who beat me over the line I think) and I.
The gap in power is definitely made up for by numbers, 5 or 6 riders in that front group and the weaker riders can rest up a lot and pull in short bits but still hold on until something breaks the group like a hill.
One thing I always struggle with in zwift races is getting on wrong side of splits at start. Yesterday was a prime example, I'm sitting on about 12th wheel in the pack and the group is stretched out pretty much single file. All of a sudden someone in front loses a wheel and a gap appears and then you are goosed. Yesterday I managed to get back on via the biggest dig I have ever pulled, but usually it's game over.
In c cat races the line never gets as strung out but b & a cats it always happens and only way to prevent it appears to be to stay right at the front. Any tips?
I was naughty and carried in a power up from warming up on watopia.
@robbo1234biking Will that be allowed in the future or are we best to dump them in order to make it fairer?
In c cat races the line never gets as strung out but b & a cats it always happens and only way to prevent it appears to be to stay right at the front. Any tips?
Never be at the back 😉
@poopscoop. Power ups are allowed and I can’t really police it so if people get one during there warm up I don’t think I can do anything about it.
Ok matey. I'm guessing most won't have them so I'll bin mine to keep it fair.
Not that me having an extra PU helped me much yesterday.Lol
I need to lose more weight for the coming week/s. That will help. It's going to hurt next week but I like the ups once I get into a rhythm.😁
Not sure on the gap at that end as neither nixie nor his partner in crime
Think it was about 42s in the end.
Right - handicaps for next weeks race are live. Remember this is relative times so look at riders similar/close to you!
Sheet 2 on the spreadsheet.
Results table also added on a new sheet.
24 seconds. I think I can make that up.
Good work Rob, you def deserve a round of applause for all the effort you're putting in to this.
Is the intention to take the best 4 or 5 results to allow for a missed race? I'm in Scotland doing the Badger Divide for race 3 so don't want to scupper my chance of glory! (I've no chance of glory)
Woah, some big handicaps there! Shows how much difference a climb makes 😬
^^ Yeah, 18 minutes 30, I best only have one warm up beer.
Handicap should put everyone’s time over one hour. Fastest riders should complete this in around 40 mins I reckon. There are big handicaps but the majority of people have a large handicap. Look at riders similar to you. W/kg does help but so does a high Ftp as the second half is flat/downhill.
Ivan - the results will be based across all 6 races but I think most will miss at least one race and scoring in every race will be difficult!
If all goes well this series I will do one next half term in the run up to Xmas.
Thanks Robbo, I think my numbers look there or thereabouts to you guys compared to the last Sunday Hills I did with you.
Sounds about right, I just had a look, I've done Innsbruck a couple of times as a solo ride, not a race and it was around 53mins Inc cool down each time, a reasonable effort and I'm heavy.
Hopefully I won't cock up the IT this time.
Thanks for your hard work.
This is really interesting to see how those handicaps will work out, big respect for doing the maths Robbo!
Time to get some hill practise in...
Who's up for some Sunday hills this week?? 🤣🤣
Wow not raced that course for nearly two years!
22 min!😥
Given the climb is in the middle of the route and isnt going to be nearly as much of a factor as if it was at the end, that seems an exceptionally large handicap!!
At some point would it be possible to put people's Zwift name next to their forum name so we know the names to keep an eye on during the race, if that makes sense?
My zwift name is R.M.
I can't race next week due to work.
I think I'll try and ride the race route another day and compare my time to everyone else with the handicap applied.
This race series is great, full credit to the organiser, Robbo...it’s the kick I need to get the fitness back on track.
Hopefully this round I won’t be asleep and fall off the back before the race starts
@poopscoop If people post on the main thread then I don't see an issue. Some people have PMd me there Zwift names so I wouldn't share those. Some of these are there real names and they may not want it associated with an account on here for security etc. I will scroll back through the thread at some point and add the names where it has been posted on the thread.
@tpbiker I calibrated the race against one of the 7 days of tarmac races on the same course. Also you are 'only' looking at putting 6 minutes into the group of C's that contains me. Having ridden with you once on the TTT I think you would be capable of pulling that sort of gap out with the hill. Its how the downhill affects the groupings on the other side but if you can pull out a few minutes gap you will be down the hill before a lot of the group would have got to the summit.
Laughgov= Val Gough (zwift name)
Sorry i know i know its an anagram how clever bla bla bla (apologies in advance)
😂
Question i know you should give it socks up the hill. Is there any point on way down or just chill. Ive heard that theres no point in pedaling over a certain speed in zwift. Is that true.
Obviously back up and lash on when back flats.
In the past I've stopped pedalling on descents (and occasionally stop my wheel on purpose) so you get into the Froome tuck. Seems to catch pedallers pretty quickly.
Andeh here, Andeh there 🙄
Obviously back up and lash on when back flats.
Supertuck is pretty quick once your over 60kmph. I tend to keep pedalling, one because it can be faster, two helps clear crap from the legs and three you can catch supertuckers out with a burst of power. It takes them time to spin up again and if you do it in the right place you can gap them as they loose the supertuck benefit but haven't yet put on enough power to hold your wheel.
Makes sense. Ill give that a go. Hopefully still be in shouting distace at that stage.
Cheers
Supertuck needs 50Kph+ and 6%+ gradient iirc, just stop pedalling, worth doing if not in a blob gunning it down the mountain.
So spreadsheet had been updated with Zwift name where they have posted on this thread already or it matches there forum name.
I'm the opposite, love the supertuck as it's always a much-needed break when I'm dying, if only for a few seconds! You do need to keep on your toes though, as said you have to start pedalling again HARD before it starts to flatten out or you'll get dropped!!Supertuck is pretty quick once your over 60kmph. I tend to keep pedalling, one because it can be faster, two helps clear crap from the legs and three you can catch supertuckers out with a burst of power.
(Having said that I've dropped people a few times by supertucking then sprinting at the end with fresher legs whilst using an aero!)
How long is the climb? And is there a zwift route that replicates the course? I use zwift a fair bit but generally for zone 2 rides, I tend to be watching videos and not paying attention to zwift.
Last Tuesdays race was interesting, I was in a big group with Weeksy et al, we were going at a pace that was just under my comfortable pace, but the group ahead were too far ahead for me to make a solo catch to. Not knowing the course I almost missed the split at the start of the climb, put in a big effort and then stayed in the group. We were then travelling at just above my comfy pace (3.7 to 3.9 W/kg)for the remainder of the race, so was happy I didn’t try a break earlier otherwise I’d have been toast.
The finish line crept up on me, last couple of Km’s were fast, was trying to save some energy for a sprint even though we were going over 300 watts, I was watching my power, checking what gear I was in, checking the distance to the end, checking where everyone else, then people came past me and the race ended! Was great fun and happy with my performance.
I’ve done next to no training this year since outdoor racing was cancelled. In March my FTP was 280 (from a zwift ramp test). Did a Sufferfest 4dp FTP test in August and it was 231. After Tuesdays race Zwift gave me a 241 ftp, but happy to still race at 250. I’ve trained and raced a lot over the years so hoping my fitness will come back to normal fairly quickly.
The climb is 7.4km or 4.6miles at 5.4% average. My fastest time up there is 29 minutes.
You should be a lot quicker.
Sorry completely overdid the end of August and last day off school for the kids and the Tour was on :0)
Handicap for me at 18:30 looks ok. Never raced it but in theory I should be looking at about 45mins during a race. Not certain I'll make it as outside is calling and trying to keep off Zwift for as long as possible.
I'll be back into it in October though.
The cat2 climb segment.
https://www.strava.com/segments/18397965
Best STW time is 17min27secs, 3.22W/Kg from start point to summit riding solo got me just past the summit ~18 months ago, 3.72W/Kg for 23min12secs on the above segment... No way would I expect to get anywhere near that time right now after ~5.5 weeks of very little! 😆
Thanks n0b0dy, I’ve done that climb back in Feb as part of an ftp builder session, 27 mins,average 215 watts. Was an under over session by the look of it and the first two miles as part of my warm up (140 watts).
Think I’ll try and give it a go if it’s available today or tomorrow.
Having purposefully dodged any hilly races for a while now I thought I would have a test ride of the Innsbruck course this morning.
It wasn’t available so jumped on Japan hill climb race. Jesus that brought me back to earth with a bang. wasn’t sure when the first prolonged climb would come so tried to get involved in the usual crazy Zwift race for the lead pack and blew out of my arse to hang in as long as I could. involved a climb up through volcanos then road to ruins, felt like two lap. then with a few miles to go an feeling pretty spent I was hoping the finish line would be in the usual place on the promenade, no it was up the bloody KOM climb with summit finish. after climbing the first few steep switchbacks I hit the wall and the remaining 2.5miles were agony, I actually stopped a couple of times as I lost momentum climbing out of the saddle on the 10%+ parts and several guys I had managed to drop earlier passed me by with ease. nearly just turned around and cruise back down, shaking and close to puking. finished 12th in cat c and despite feeling like I put more effort in than Tuesdays race I only averaged 243w and 3.1w/kg. 9 minutes behind the top 3 cat Cs so can see how the handicap can be easily eaten into next week. They did ride behind their cat though all averaging above 4.1w/kg in fact most of the top 10 were all 3.2 to 4.
Can’t get into Zwift power anymore for some reason to check results after disqualifications. Has it moved or changed?
In summary do I not racing up hill. bodes well for next week, I need a couple of willing domestiques and will avoid a hilly mtb ride next Monday.
Good effort Kirky!! Looks like a good route and will be great practice for Tuesday. I know I will be nowhere near that w/kg and if I was I would be puking for sure haha!
Going back to the supertuck question the Zwiftinsider article strongly suggests its worth doing! https://zwiftinsider.com/speed-tests-supertuck/