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Right bear with me on this one. I am going to try and organise a STW Zwift Race Series.
It will be based on 6 races across a 6-week period, with races taking place on a Tuesday evening at 19.30.
You can turn up to any race as the idea is for it to be fun and engaging and not too serious (see below for my attempt to level the playing field 😉) but I will try and determine a series winner for bragging rights.
I have chosen a subset of courses across the Zwift world. There is only one big climb across these. I have chosen routes that should take about 40 to 60 minutes to complete. The courses and dates are listed below:
Courses
1st September - RGV (France) 15 miles (24.1km)
8th September - 2018 UCI Worlds Course Short Lap Innsbruck 14.7 miles (23.6km)
15th September - 10 Laps - Volcano Circuit 2.5 miles (4.1km)
22nd September - Road to Ruins 18.4 miles (29.6km)
29th September - Royal Pump Room 8 17.2 miles (27.7km)
5th October - 8 Laps - London Classique 3.4 miles (5.4km)
In order to equalise things I am going to apply a handicap to the results. Zwift’s method of using w/kg doesn’t really work on flat courses so I am going to be more scientific (I am an engineer) so I will apply a time handicap based on your FTP and weight. I have done an example of how this would apply with 4 different rides below. You can see the time differences on each one and the handicap that would be applied. This would be applied post-race but I would also keep the original results as well. I won’t break it down to the individual seconds but round up to the nearest minute. The time difference are calculated in Best Bike Split based on a 0.9 intensity factor.
Example Handicap
220w FTP 90kg rider
220w FTP 70kg rider
350w FTP 90kg rider
350w FTP 70kg rider
2018 UCI Worlds Course Short Lap Innsbruck Example Handicap
Based on 0.9 Intensity Factor (90% of the FTP average for duration of the race)
220w FTP 90kg rider – 1hr 2 mins
220w FTP 70kg rider – 55 mins (7-minute handicap)
350w FTP 90kg rider – 46 mins (16-minute handicap)
350w FTP 70kg rider- 42 mins (20-minute handicap)
6 Laps - London Classique Example Handicap
Based on 0.9 Intensity Factor (90% of the FTP average for duration of the race)
220w FTP 90kg rider – 10 min 12 per lap – Total 61 mins 12 seconds
220w FTP 70kg rider – 9 min 53 per lap – Total 59 mins 18 seconds (2-minute handicap)
350w FTP 90kg rider – 8 min 32 per lap – Total 51 mins 12 seconds (10-minute handicap)
350w FTP 70kg rider- 8 min 20 per lap - Total 50 mins (11-minute handicap)
How do I enter?
1. Post on here saying you are interested.
2. Follow me on Zwift - R obbo1234biking (STW) (The space is important)
3. Send me a PM with your FTP and weight (FTP can be taken from Zwift or your chosen training program).
That’s it really! I will send out the invites a few days in advance of the meetings.
If anyone has another suggestion for the handicapping I am all ears! As you can see it makes a large difference on a hilly course but not such a difference on a flatter course and should allow people to remain competitive with your peers.
go on then!
you know who I am....
71kg...
259ftp...
DrP
You had me at 'the idea is for it to be fun'
FTP 344
86 KG
PS
Thanks for making the effort to organise this, well done
Interested, 85kg Zwift says my FTP is 304W
Those handicaps look impossibly strong for a short flat road race though, look more like what they would be for a TT.
I'll have a dig at this, even though I never made any of the group rides.
Last tested ftp 297
93 kgs
Oh hell yes!
270W FTP, 98kgs
Yep, I'm in.
Which one is the climb course as of really best turn up for that, I'm assuming France?
It seems we're ignoring the pm thing so I'll put my vitals here!
79kg 339W apparently. Though I think that's unlikely, I suppose I should probably do a ramp test or some nonsense.
Let me know if you need a hand setting this up.
look more like what they would be for a TT.
It's all about the craic though.
(but a TT would be a good 7th stage, unless it's flat, then it would be rubbish 😉)
Yep. I've not raced on Zwift before so this will be a nice way to get into it. 226 at 79kg.
Well, this is a bit like dropping your pants then being asked to cough.😉
Feeling a little inadequate!😳
102kg (been, well, celebrating since doing the SDW) and a mighty 241FTP.
My weight is likely to go down markedly by the 1st Sep and in the following weeks as I'll be back on the semi keto band wagon.
Will it be ok to amend weight as the series goes along?
I doubt my FTP will change much though!😆
Sure, i'll play.
FTP 298w
Weight 90kg...
I won't be winning any even with a handicap as i solo a lot worse than i group ride, but i'll put in a shift 🙂
How about pairing up riders and placing based on the average of their times.
Or setting the handicap for race n based on their split from last place time on race n-1.
Just trying to think of a way the handicap can help with fun racing tactics. The time penalty based handicap system, if not ignored, would motivate the faster riders to split the pelo right off the line and TT to try and make up the time penalty.
Will have to miss the first one but the others look interesting...
64kg
300w
hope that handicap system works as most people above are putting out some very big numbers 😭
79Kg, 255W
hope that handicap system works as most people above are putting out some very big numbers 😭
79Kg, 255W
I hope it doesn't as zwift seems to make up some big numbers!
64kg
300w
OUCH !!!
Can I play too but I may not be able to make every week due to work commitments? I'm not bothered about the winning (let's be honest I won't be anywhere near the pointy end!), just having fun on the days I can join. If not being able to do every week screws up the maths, feel free to tell me to do one! 🙂
88KG
271 FTP
7.30pm is normally a bit touch and go for me however would like to try and join at least some of these. Last 42 days is showing eFTP as 335W @ 75kg.
I’m interested in this, especially as this year’s wonderful summer riding season draws to a close.
My details are 72kg, and 270W.
Due to a calibration issue, my power FTP has been lowered by ZP Mods to 275w.
So i'm
275w
90kg.
Thanks all for the interest. I have tied up most of you to your zwift username but I need to know the zwift usernames for the following:
I have had a couple of follow requests but need to tie these up with the right people and I might already be following some of you but cant associate the username on STW with the Zwift name.
As for handicap - the other way to do it would be to let people go in reverse order. You get given your handicap time and you set of X minutes after the first person. Should bring everyone together for the end then...would have to be self policed but sure we can trust you! This series is to find a way to run these in the future as I hope to do something through the winter months so it might be that we try something else as we go through the series. its about fun so we can change the rules as we go along.
I forgot to mention that the points will be awarded according to the finish on the day so it could be about consistency than being good on a particular course. I will do something similar to F1 so 25 points for fastest time (allowing for handicap) down to 1 point for 10th.
People can turn up to individual races - its about having fun with a bit of structure (I think I have to make every week though for it to run!).
P.S the numbers dont tell the whole story. weeksy is pretty similar numbers to me (I have a 10W higher FTP at the moment but that was the opposite a while back). On a flat crit style course weeksy would beat me all day but on a hilly course (from the one time weeksy turned up to a Sunday hills) I would be faster than him so it depends how you ride certain courses.
David C@DPCT
You get given your handicap time and you set of X minutes after the first person
You mean like the TTT events do. I quite like that as an idea as it would make it more likely that I'd make the start on any given week :D. The Deeside event ran like this last 'series' block. When the handicap is spot on the lead groups from each cat should come together for the last few minutes.
My zwift name is set as "Aaron Barry [BRT]" currently.
Cheers guys I have got you both already!
Starting everyone at the same time would make it feel like a race rather than a time-trial, however a staggered start would probably make it more exciting at the finish as well as making it a lot easier to work out who's winning at any point (you would have to refer to a spreadsheet otherwise 😂)
Sounds intresting, but I'm still waiting for the all clear to get sweaty and start doing meaningful power intervals again on the bike after surgery three weeks ago, plus I will also miss at least one meeting in September due to hols.
I'll check back into the thread closer to September and see if there are any spots left, if I'm given the nod by my GP.
On Zwift I'm Southside Johnny
I'm not sure about a staggered start, I'm all about the draft!! I need it!! 😉
Hi Robbo
i’m in but will do a ramp test To get a new FTP as haven’t done one for about 4 months.
followed you on Sunday when the post was first put up.
currently 219 and 79.8kg
Neil
I’m waiting for delivery of a Wattbike Atom but will be up for this once it arrives at some point next month.
73kg
332w
Username is J Stockton (HPC)
Hi Robbo
FTP 190w
65kg
Andy Robinson STW
Cheers
Andy
Damn it, I've just cancelled my Zwift subscription to change to Sufferfest for a bit or I'd be well up for this.
Chasing start would be interesting, maybe with groupings every 30 seconds to give some split but also some chance for drafting.
This might give me the motivation to start using zwift again regularly.
Simon Collins (STW)
ftp: 214
weight: 78 Kg
Cheers, Si
OK I have plugged in the info for everyone I have details for to date. Below is the handicaps for Stage 1 (dont worry I can update these if your FTP or weight changes before hand). The course is fairly flat so weight isnt the deciding factor on this course. I think if people are able to perform their best then this should be fairly accurate. I have rounded to the nearest 30 seconds. Weeksy and I rode the reverse course of this today with very different strategies and ended up within 3 seconds of each other at the end.
The race will definitely reward you for hanging in as long as you can with a group a bit better than you as long as you don't give up too much and blow up! If this doesn't work we can try something else for race 2 (perhaps Twistys suggestion above). If everyone's handicapped final times are within about a minute at the end then I would say we are fairly close to a decent handicap system that allows for individual performance on the day (good or bad).
Handicap times (to be added to your time at the end) are as follows:
DrP 4 mins
Phil56 7 mins 30 seconds
Twisty 6 mins
mos 5 mins
mrhoppy 3 mins 30 seconds
10 2 mins
Poopscoop 2 mins
Weeksy 4 mins
b1gf00t 6 mins 30 seconds
zilog6128 3 mins 30 seconds
oop north 3 mins 30 seconds
nixie 8 mins
J-R 4 mins 30 seconds
neilarn2 1 min 30 seconds
r8jimbob88 7 mins 30 seconds
tyke 0 mins
undarra 1 min
robbo1234biking 4 min
P.S Algorithm was not provided by Gavin Williamson
Well, colour me impressed.
I've raced Dr P and today finished 2s ahead of Robbo in a race, so us 3 having the same start time seems very fair to me.
Question, are we allowed teamwork/drafting ?
Yeh drafting is allowed. So if you can hang onto a slightly faster group then it should give you a good result.
Forgot dangeourbrain as well sorry! 7min 30 secs for you!
If I wanted to join in do I have to do that FTP test thing first?
I'm interested but between trainers, so will have to do an FTP when I get the new one rolling
Ouch I'm going to have to work hard 😀
No I think Zwift will set your ftp and update it automatically based on your best performance on a virtual ride. There will be a lot of people on here who have never done a ramp test. They aren’t that pleasant so most people prefer to just have a go at a race and see how it goes! When you set a new ftp Zwift will suggest a new ftp afterwards.
Alternatively you can do a ramp test which takes 20 mins but is only 3-5 mins of real effort.
Andeh - no problem just let me know once you have the details.
It's an official thing now cos the main stream meeja says so 😉
So we're setting off together? I think that'll give people like me an advantage on the flatter courses. I thought we were doing TTT type delayed start.
Just to be clear are we chasing start or mass start with handicap added on? And are we on different handicaps for different events?
And is it cumulative time across the whole series or best X results from the series?
Haha I'm not sure that I should be handicapped at a similar time to Weeksy, DrP and Zilog, I know they can all leave me for dead. Will be fun to see what happens, looking forward to it!
Time to get in some races and push myself!
I'm in, 86.5kg FTP 259 from a Zwift ramp test (Strava thinks it's 236 though...)
Right sorry it is getting confusing!
1. Mass start with handicap added on at the end of each race. The handicap will be specific to each course so the handicap will not stay the same. The flatter courses will favour high power riders irrelevant of power. The hilly courses will favour light racers. This also allows some tactics to be deployed as well from drafting etc and encourages riders to break drafts etc and create gaps.
2. Points awarded for the top 10 from each race following the F1 points system so consistency will be key to win the series. Points work better than time as one bad race would put you out of contention whereas points give you a chance.
Mark - thanks for putting it up on the front page and for putting up prizes!
Great work Robbo! Thanks for organising!
Thanks for setting all this up robbo.
The mass start with the handicap added at the end will make everyone go hard and try to hang on to the draft which is just what I need to get fitter.... and feel a bit ill.😉
I haven't done an ftp test for about a year. I absolutely HATE them so my ftp is a Zwift assigned estimate.😁
Hi Robbo
Please can you put me down pls. Thanks for organising!
FTP 222
Wgt 66
Pete B on zwift
We just need to run a livestream of the racing now. STW Pro League Cycling. Or the MAOAM league, Middle-Aged, Overweight, Argumentative Men.
Well this certainly turned out popular...
If you need a hand robbo do shout, looking like there maybe a fair chunk of work involved so I'm happy to lend a hand. (If only as I feel a little guilty as I've a nagging suspicion I might have put you up to it ages ago!)
I'd like to join in.
Zwift name : Rick M
Weight : 78kg
FTP : not sure where to find the figure on the zwift companion app? Occasionally the programme raises my FTP and I see a new number appear. It is somewhere around the low 200's I think?
Not done an FTP test yet but will do one when I complete the pebble pounder training plan.
I might not be able to enter all the races due to working shifts.
I've added you Robbo1234... as a friend on zwift so that might help with the missing FTP number?
Rick.
Stephen Duckworth STW
FTP - 184
80kg
And thanks Robbo, it's appreciated. Do shout if you need any help with it.
@Retrorick if you go to your profile on Zwift itself, or on zwift.com, you can see your FTP. It doesn't show on the companion app profile.
Sounds fun. i'll join in to make up the numbers.
Weight is a hefty 132kg. but with a puny FTP of 243.
Sounds good to me, I'll give it a bash. 69.5 Kg 279 w/Kg, Think I'm Mark Howlett (GNCC) on Zwift.
if you go to your profile on Zwift itself, or on zwift.com
I can't actually find mine on the website. Lots of other useless guff but not my ftp. Might just be me being stooopid mind.
I think I actually gave you the wrong number anyhow, think I gave my best 20min effort instead of 90% of that or what ever it should be.
Ah well, no harm no foul. I might do a ramp test and see how I come out. If it's significantly worse I'll let you know,just make me work harder anyway.
I'll do a FTP test tomorrow. Maybe that'll make the number more visible in my profile when I look at it?
I ended up on Zwift yesterday & really struggled - my fitness seems to have evaporated.
But, I'll be up for giving this a go.
I'll need to do an FTP test or something as my current Zwift value is way high. I'll do that in the next few days & then shove my stats on here.
Robbo - I think I am already following you on Zwift from the previous group meet-ups.
pretty sure you can't see it on the website, you have to load the app, start a ride, then go to the "edit profile name" bit. They are so bad at UI/UX it makes Garmin look like an iPhone 😂I can’t actually find mine on the website. Lots of other useless guff but not my ftp. Might just be me being stooopid mind.
dangeourbrain
I can’t actually find mine on the website. Lots of other useless guff but not my ftp. Might just be me being stooopid mind.
You need to get this in game, I think.
In-game, stop pedalling & go to 'menu'. Under your name is the 'edit' icon.
Select this & you get your user profile up. Your FTP is recorded on the right of the box.
EDIT - whoops, there's an echo in here.... 🙂
Sod it, I'm in.
100kg
290w
Time to reactivate the subscription.
To find your FTP on Zwift I think you need to be in the main app.
If you're not riding this works;
- Open the app and log in
- Click 'Let's Go' on the Welcome screen
- at the 'Paired Devices' screen click 'Just Watch' in the bottom right
- on the next screen click on 'Back to me' in the bottom left
- Then 'Menu' in the bottom left
- Then click on the 'pencil' icon just below your Zwift user name in the top left
- you'll now see your FTP in the middle on the right.
Hi Robbo
Can you add me please. Scopping on Zwift
77kg
285W
Cheers
you have to load the app,
You need to get this in game, I think.
Turns out you can only do it in game. Who knew?
329 apparently, better but still doesn't sound overly realistic.
I can’t actually find mine on the website. Lots of other useless guff but not my ftp. Might just be me being stooopid mind.
My bad, I thought it was there, but it's just weight and height info. Definitely can be found on Zwift itself as mentioned above, or in Zwift Power if you are set up for that.
S avoyad (STW)
74kg
260W
Thanks Robbo.
This sounds like a great idea. I'd be really grateful if you could add me too.
Rich Holland
75kg
FTP 246
Hoping a couple weeks inactivity and only riding uplifts in the alps hasn't crippled me!
Count me in please.
71kg
FTP 250
PeesBee STW
Ha ha! With all these stats being banded about, I am going to be shot out the back like a bad case of dysentry!
Oh go on then. Jules Jordan; 93kg and 285W according to ZwiftPower/312W according to Zwift.
Count me in please
Thomas Clark
FTP - 272
Weight - 79kg
I'll get in on this please!
PM'd you my deets
It's going to be a hell of a peleton, until I get spat out the back as per the norm 🙂
Is there any limit on numbers ? I'm likely to be occasional, possibly never, and wouldn't want to use up a spot for no reason
S caredypants
78Kg, FTP 440
It’s going to be a hell of a peleton, until I get spat out the back as per the norm 🙂
Just wait till Robbo "accidentally" puts on elastic band mode and those of us trying to make a big chunk of time are bringing our lunch up trying to get rid of you all
S caredypants
78Kg, FTP 440
Typo?!😳
Sorry, wrong app - that's from my grindr
FTP about 260
Ha ha! With all these stats being banded about, I am going to be shot out the back like a bad case of dysentry!
You're not kidding. When ever i go out with others i can generally hold my own, but compared to literally everyone else on here my FTP is way off (184). Either something is wrong with how my power is being measured by my Tacx smart trainer or im a useless bag of lard with weak legs.
My max 20 minute power that I've recorded is 233w according to zwift.
I think that number came from the first stage of the maap race series and I was pretty much at my limit during race.
I'll treat myself to an FTP test to get a more accurate number.