[Closed] stumpy fsr to a 5 spot... pointless swap or not?

Would a 150mm fork be ok on a 5 spot?

150mm would be spot on!

If you got one would you ride it more than the Stumpy? If so, that's a good enough reason.

To be honest I wouldnt ride it any more or any less!!

I would just ride it...

If you like riding more than changing bearings it'll be worth it

Ah now then davosaurus didnt you have an xl for sale a few weeks back??

What sort of price do they fetch second-hand then?

How did the xl ride aswell?

Sold mine for £800 with a CCDB with Ti coil. Merlin selling them new for a bit over £900 doesn't help. Bubs on here has it now, dunno what he thinks of it yet though

I'm 6'3" ish and it rode like a champ, not unwieldy at all, loads of stand over so easy to crank it right over and bury it deep into the belly of turns before firing out the other side like an exocet missile (copyright MBUK). It rode really well, only sold it to scratch a 29er itch, which is another Turner. I'm a fanboi/homer so my opinion is biased though.

Pointless...?
Nope.
More of a step backwards I'd say. 😉
Stick with the FSR

PP can I ask why you think that please mate!

He rides a spesh........
I've ridden both and the spot is certainly a step up, but how much of a step? Depends on what it'll cost you.

how are you getting on with your new one Daveosaurusrex?

Waiting for the X Fusion Trace 34s to arrive in the country! Due end of Feb - if the ground freezes it's going to kill me!

Didn't your last Turner experience result in a massive whine-fest on here and MTBR over a warranty claim?

Stick with Spesh.

Doof doof that was down to the narrow q factor of the xtr cranks which it came with.

Was fine when the cranks were swapped.

Turner were kind enough to send out a new rear end for it!!

I went from a 2009 FSR to a 2011 5 spot and the difference if like night and day. I find it hard to explain exactly why its better but it just seems to do everything so well. DWLink means it climbs with no pedal bob. It descends so well its unreal. So confidence inspiring. i have coil lyriks on at the moment which makes out a pretty perfect bike for everything Scotland can throw at it.

trust me Renton, go with the 5 spot mate. Be aggressive with it and you will see why so many people rave about it. I've done xc, trips to Basque and big mountain days in Scotland and it been bloody amazing.

got to find a secondhand xl first !!!

@Scienceofficer - you still glad you made the swap?

@renton - I know Spesh are a good firm but you cannot beat Turner CS as you know. That and the reliability of the bushings in UK conditions is worth a lot even leaving ride quality to one side IMO

I take it you've seen the last one on Merlin for £990?

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/frame-forks/frames-mtb/turner-frames/2011-turner-5-spot-dw-frame.html

Yep seen that mate thanks but out of my price range!!

Want a second hand one I can get powdercoated!!

What sort of price should I be looking to pay for a used 5 spot either full build or frame??

cheers

Steve

PP can I ask why you think that please mate!

Well, lets see....

Turner used to license the FSR design, but when they refused to pay the fee any longer, they made up all sorts of excuses as to why they changed. IIRC they went to an interim design (see Kona) before they nicked the DW pivot design?
The FSR design is probably just about the most copied design there is. Simple, elegant, effective and very highly developed by now.
Boutique bikes? Been there, done that. Niche manufacturers? Been there, done (Doing) that.
My next bikes will be from major manufacturers who actually have R&D budgets and proper warranties.

As a few of us used to joke Turner = Posh Specialized, then posh Kona and aren't they now posh Giants?
They just don't have anything unique to the brand IMO. And If I was to spend that sort of money, I'd want something that stood out.

Renton, I bought a fsr about 11 yr ago, after a few years i was replacing rear sus bushes every few months, after 4 years the bike had pretty much had it, admittedly it had had a lot of abuse, Alps, Sierra Nevada, Lakes, Scotland etc i bought a 5 spot nearly 7 years ago,(4bar) ridden just as hard, but I've never had to change the bushes once, I have to say the quality of the frame is vastly superior on the Turner!

My pitch felt like it had a hinge in the middle compared to my spot
Plus the bushes last an age compared to Spesh bearings
And iirc Turner stopped using the four bar system because of Ellsworths ****y ICT patent shenanigans not cos of the fsr license fee
Turners are a superb bike for long term ownership in the uk IMO...

I switched from a DW-Link Iron Horse MkIII to a 2009 Stumpjumper FSR.

The Stumpjumper is loads better. It's likely user error, but I never could get the MkIII set up to my liking.

augustuswindsock - Member

I have to say the quality of the frame is vastly superior on the Turner!

Peterpoddy, mate why do you dislike Turner so much, it seems that you are not moaning about the bikes and how they handle but about the brand as a whole.

How much more does the 5 Spot frame weigh? I bet a pound at least.

I forgot to say before, but fwiw Turner developed the DW spot with Dave Weagal, they didn't nick the idea off him..
Unlike Giant...

Khani is correct. Turner didnt not want to pay for the FSR design, they purchased the right to use a superior system (DW link). This has been nicked by the largest manufacturer with the largest R&D budget; giant.
Turners warranty is widely regarded as one of the best in the business.
If you want unique, you won't be wanting a spesh.
The DW link is licensed by some very highly regarded manufacturers such as ibis and pivot. FSR is licenced by KHS and Merida.

Khani is correct. Turner didnt not want to pay for the FSR design, they purchased the right to use a superior system (DW link).

Nowt to do with that, it was only about $1.50 a frame they had to pay for the patent to Spesh I think. It was a row with Ellsworth that they stopped using the 4 bar set up.

Specialized suspension is pretty much spot on but if you haven't ridden 5 spot I suggest you do

It was over the ICT (instant centre tracking) design, even though Turner were using it before Ellsworth Mr Ellsworth got the patent in first then demanded a fee for it's use, so Mr Turner effed them off and went foobar then DW
And also fwiw Turner used the Horst link with ICT, not FSR which uses a much lower more active (and bobby) pivot point with a Horst link

wrecker - Member

Khani is correct. Turner didnt not want to pay for the FSR design, they purchased the right to use a [s]superior[/s] cheaper system (DW link).

Ah, there you go. That's more like it. However, the patent on the Horst link has expired as of this year, it's now become public. Que lots of brands abandoning convoluted modifications of 4-bar set ups in favour of traditional horst link formats. Don't be surprised when Turner revert to a horst link layout when their agreement with DW runs out.

wrecker
If you want unique, you won't be wanting a spesh.

Not unique, no. But think of a stumpjumper as a Nissan GTR, it doesn't have the uniqueness of say, an Aston Martin but it's much better made and much faster than something twice the price.

The DW link is licensed by some very highly regarded manufacturers such as ibis and pivot. FSR is licenced by KHS and Merida.

You forgot Nicolai. And Norco. Titus. Cube. And Lapierre, and you could argue Knolly. And many many more.

Knolly was designed from scratch. Spesh aren't interested, and we all know what their corporate behaviour is like....

Not unique, no. But think of a stumpjumper as a [s]Nissan GTR[/s] Vauxhall corsa, it doesn't have the uniqueness of say, an Aston Martin but it's much [s]better made[/s] more efficiently mass produced and [s]much faster[/s] not quite as high a quality than something twice the price.

Yep I forgot Titus and norco.........

Its utterly pointless to compare suspension based on it being 4 bar, faux-bar, DW link or whatever.

Within each envelope there are multiple iterations. DW for example, is tweaked differently for each of turners bikes depending on their intended use which is in turn different from how mojo use it and how nicolai or anbody else use it Progression curves, leverage ratios, chain growth can all be quite different, but here are fundamental similarities in the suspension kinematics, which is why they're all called 'DW' but thats really as far as it goes.

Owning a Turner over a spesh does offer benefits, but how much benefit I think, depends greatly on you and your attitude to bikes and riding.

IME Turners are stiffer than speshes, have longer lasting suspension pivots and in use seem to generally be tougher. They age well compared to spesh and of course carry the cachet that is important to all of us to one degree or another.

As has been alluded to, Turner HL was based on ICT rather than FSR. IME FSR needs more interference from fancy shocks to stop its wallowing and IME of DW turners, DW is way ahead in terms of suspension performance.

None of my ramblings really matter though, because it all really depends on whether you like it.

Seems to me you're happy with the spesh, you just want validation to get the pimpy bike.

@Daveosaurusrex - Yes, very pleased. Grip in corners is something to behold. I still haven't managed to detect this supertanker-like back end that everyone goes on about - seems as nimble as the 5spot everywhere except for popping of the ground which takes a bit more effort in some circumstances. When it does leave the ground its hugely composed and lands like it was always on the ground in the first place.

My only other wish is that is was a bit lighter. Mines got pretty sensible trail kit on it and it comes in at 29.6lbs, which is basically 1.5lbs heavier than the 5spot it replaced. there a little over a pound extra between the wheels and just under 0.5lb extra from the 2x10 instead of 1x9 drivetrain.

wrecker - Member

Knolly was designed from scratch. Spesh aren't interested, and we all know what their corporate behaviour is like....

Pivot on the chainstay, below and in front of rear axle. It's been debated ad-nauseum on plenty of other forums but in my opinion it's a needlessly complex system to circumvent patents that have now expired and/or appear to be unique for the sake of marketing. A rich, stupid mans specialized, since they are now made in taiwan too.

wrecker

Yep I forgot Titus and norco.........

And all the other brands.

wrecker .

Not unique, no. But think of a stumpjumper as a Vauxhall corsa, it doesn't have the uniqueness of say, an Aston Martin but it's much better made more efficiently mass produced and much faster not quite as high a quality than something twice the price.

Mate, if you really believe that a stumpjumper is in bike terms, a "vauxhaul corsa" then I feel a bit sorry for you. If you want to spend extra because a bike is made in the U.S.A then good for you, I've ridden Santa Cruz, Turners, Foes etc. A specialized full sus, with a comparable build will be as good, if not better than any boutique bike. There's really no denying it.

The only boutique bike worth a damn extra over the big mainstream brands is a Nicolai. Horst link, custom geometry. Insane attention to detail, build quality and after sales support.

Lol. Feel sorry for me if you like. I couldn't care less.
Enjoy your corsa, I've owned a spesh FSR, intense VPP, Santa Cruz vpp2, turner DW, giant maestro and have ridden many many more. The spesh was the weakest bike of all. In fact the only bike ive ridden and genuinely disliked was a camber. coulnt wait to get off the thing. if your opinion really is that the FSR is the best system then crack on. Someone needs to feed the huge corporate machine. If you honestly think a stumpy is the equivalent of a GTR, you need to put the pipe down.
There is plenty of denying what you say and the majority of MTBers do.

I used to dislike specialized, especially having only ridden bone stock versions with awful set ups. It was a long time ago, and I felt as if they were mass produced crap, as you seem to think. I experimented with many other brands trying to find bikes that were magic, for want of a better word. In retrospect, despite the fact I'd been riding for years I didn't have the skill to push bikes to the point where their character traits, good and bad were really apparent.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

muddyfunster - please could we have your opinion on 29ers?

A very reasonable approach muddyfunster.

and I felt as if they were mass produced crap, as you seem to think

davosaurusrex

muddyfunster - please could we have your opinion on 29ers?

They are the future. Pretty much everyone should ride one, whether they want to or not.

@muddyfunster - ha! Touche.

@wrecker - I don't think he's serious about 29ers......

@scienceofficer. Nice one, cheers. At nearly 6'4" on an XL I doubt I'll notice chainstay length at all TBH

My 5 spots ten years old, it retired a year ago and now hangs on the wall scratched and faded but still sound. it was wellied round the peaks for years and always made me smile unless I was too busy screaming for dear life!
And I still miss it sometimes 😥 best bike ever!...

More anti-squat on the DW. More active suspension on the FSR. More modern frame details on the Stumpjumper. Cosy feeling of owning a small brand with the 5 Spot.

You pays your money...

All the stuff about less robust bearings and other parts on the Specialized is probably true, but they're such fun to ride, whereas I never took to the 5-Spot I test rode a couple of years ago........so Steve, you take your choice. But hey, why not split the difference and go for a Mojo? Awesome bike, and you get the DW link thrown in (feels much much better on the Mojo for me at least).

not thought of a mojo to be honest.

Thinking about it, its going to be a lot of hassle trying to find a used xl frame for the right money when there is absolutley nowt wrong with the stumpy which is a very capable bike !!

whats the mojo like though.............

AM I TURNING INTO THE NEXT HORA !!!

Putting aside the debate about boutique brands, Vauxhall Corsa's etc... I'm sick to death of having to replace squeaky, creaky stupid bearings every 6 months on my SX Trail, wife's FSR Myka and son's FSR.

I've been riding 5 Spots for 6 years now.. how many times have I changed the bearings? Er.... not once!

Renton you really need to try a 29" Stumpy. It'll be so much more balanced for your size due to the longer stays. You'll have a lot more front end grip and I promise you it'll feel like it's got 20mm more travel than your 26". I know it's a faff having to buy a new fork etc but you'll get a lot more for your stuff now than in a year when everyone realises the industry has killed off 26".

Odd - not had any issues with the bearings in either of my FSR'd bikes. Epic's been on the same bearings for 8 years now, and seen a considerable amount of mud.

Probably could do with a change after the last dusk til dawn it did, but they're still not awful.

They do get washed after rides, though. And not with a pressure washer.

Putting aside the debate about boutique brands, Vauxhall Corsa's etc... I'm sick to death of having to replace squeaky, creaky stupid bearings every 6 months on my SX Trail, wife's FSR Myka and son's FSR.

Are you power washing the pivots? Do you keep the bikes in a pond?

Seriously, that sounds ridiculously excessive. Your family must ride a lot.

Ive got to say that with all the spesh fsr's Ive owned (which is about 9 over the past 5 years) Ive not once had to change a set of bearings ?

Also the 5 spot I had (09 dw link) which had had an easy life needed new bushings straight away ?

@wrecker - I don't think he's serious about 29ers......

You always read these suspension arguments on the internet and i always think they miss the point of bikes. The Turner being a posh FSR is case in point - I had a horst link Turner and it rode like no Specialized I ever rode and before that I had an Intense Tracer and that rode like no Specalized or the Turner which replaced it.

I honest think it doesn't make that much difference to how a bike rides - the geometery has far more affect. After that, what is the bike like to live with? How solid does it feel, how long do the bearings/bushes last etc. There is no best suspension system, it all depends on shock tune, riding style etc.

I think the person who said will it make you ride more hit the nail on the head. You'll either ride more because it's less maintanence, or because it's more fun, or because it renews that spark inside you. Otherwise, what is the point in changing?

very fair analogy traildog.

To be honest I think I would ride it more than the spesh.

however finding a seconhand frame at a price im happy with is proving to be hard.

I may just keep the stumpy as its a fantastic bike and for some reason I always end up on them (this is my 4th stumpy !!) so they must be doing something right.

Its as I said in my first post, I had an 09 5 spot in large and whilst it rode fantastic I always felt I couldnt get the best out of it as it was to small for me even with a long stem.

There is a chance that if I make the move to a xl 5 spot that I will regret it and if Im happy with my current bike I am already asking myself whats the point ...................

traildog - Member

You always read these suspension arguments on the internet and i always think they miss the point of bikes. The Turner being a posh FSR is case in point - I had a horst link Turner and it rode like no Specialized I ever rode and before that I had an Intense Tracer and that rode like no Specalized or the Turner which replaced it.

I honest think it doesn't make that much difference to how a bike rides - the geometery has far more affect. After that, what is the bike like to live with? How solid does it feel, how long do the bearings/bushes last etc. There is no best suspension system, it all depends on shock tune, riding style etc.

I think the person who said will it make you ride more hit the nail on the head. You'll either ride more because it's less maintanence, or because it's more fun, or because it renews that spark inside you. Otherwise, what is the point in changing?

Well put our lad. I think that's the view of a proper trail dog 🙂

I bought one of the first kona sex-too-s in the country after riding one of the first spesh fsr-s. The spesh was a revelation but the kit for the price was rubbish. The kona was almost as good with really good value kit for the money. It made me want to ride more cos everything was easier. But I started from motorbikes, knowing that I had to set up the suspension for my weight !

After both my wife's and my bikes got stolen I bought a GT LTS1000XC as the closest to the spesh I could find at the time. It too took some time to set up, but I've only just retired it after finding that I cant get the rear shock serviced any more, and tbh the beautiful but thin gold anodised frame is getting on a bit too.

So I started looking for replacement 4-bar bikes just before xmas - and isn't there a lot of choice now !
I found a 2010 fsr expert for herself quite quickly, and a 2008 fsr comp popped up locally so I snagged that cos it was a good price.
They have taken some time to set up, as the 'modern' lower bottom brackets give a lot of pedal hits that just never happened with the LTS-es, and I was trying to make mine feel like it has the RS 140 Dual-Air that is fitted to my LTS !
(Incidentally, both bikes were set up very stiff when we got them, and would have ridden terribly)

However, the acid test came a couple of weeks ago when we did a loop round the south downs near us which involved a long (~1km) gnarly downhill (didling hill) when herself commented that she couldn't have ridden her LTS down that quickly. Result ! She enjoyed that modern 140 travel front as much as I liked the one I put onto my LTS.

What point am I making ?
Well, simply that you have to know what you're aiming at when you are looking to buy something to make you enjoy your riding more.
Just buying the 'best' frame can make no difference at all to your enjoyment.
The quality of the machine welds on the modern stumys is better than it was last century, but still not as good as the hand-welds on my old LTS1000. But it doesn't matter.

(I'm still looking for a 2010 fsr though 🙂 )

I take it your not interested in mine then mate after our email exchange about it???

[There is a chance that if I make the move to a xl 5 spot that I will regret it and if Im happy with my current bike I am already asking myself whats the point ...................]

Keep the spesh and invest your cash in a proper biking trip. You will get far more enjoyment from a week or two of lift assisted, dusty singletrack than from a life time of polishing your boutique bike. It should be about the experience rather than the ownership shouldn't it?

bubs I already do trail centre stuff and the likes of cannock etc.

I'd rather ride up hills and be sick at the top than get an uplift, but thats just me !!

I know what you are saying though !!

JCL - Member
Putting aside the debate about boutique brands, Vauxhall Corsa's etc... I'm sick to death of having to replace squeaky, creaky stupid bearings every 6 months on my SX Trail, wife's FSR Myka and son's FSR.
Are you power washing the pivots? Do you keep the bikes in a pond?

Seriously, that sounds ridiculously excessive. Your family must ride a lot.

A figurative 6 months maybe... but certainly FAR too often.

If Specialized and others didn't cheap out and use such crappy skateboard bearings then we'd all have a lot less maintenance, less cost to deal with.

As someone else said: my Horst Link Turner rode very differently to my Specialized FSR. It's about what makes you motivated and what makes you smile. Turner's do that for me - AND there's a lot less bearing maintenance required.