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Well, I thought I'd follow up my [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/strathpuffer-24-2014-who-is-in/page/2 ]questions in the other thread[/url] with some science facts, since I have now done the Strathpuffer.
Where we left off:
[quote= nikk]Can anyone tell me about the brake pad thing?
I can't get my head round the stories of people going through pads every 2 laps.
Does this happen to EVERYONE? or it is a case of poor brake setup / wrong pad compound / low quality pads falling off their backing?
When we can normally get 1000 miles out of a set of pads, how are they getting all used up in 14?
Am I really going to have to buy 10+ pairs of pads? Looking at £120 for that...
[quote=Phil_H]The last 2 years I've got through on one set of sintered pads (7 laps & 9 laps). Suffered from pad munching on the second year the event ran though.
The only noticable difference was when my pads got munched it was pissing it down & cold compared with cold & damp when they didn't.
[quote=breadcrumb]It is very abrasive, I'd recommend sintered pads prebedded in before you go. I done about 8 laps as a quad on one set of pads, might of got another lap out of them if I was lucky.
[quote=richdirector]I can't get my head round the stories of people going through pads every 2 laps.
Does this happen to EVERYONE? or it is a case of poor brake setup / wrong pad compound / low quality pads falling off their backing?
I used 3 pairs last year (could really have done one and a half - in snow and ice they last longer but if its a wet race with all that silica soil then wave goodbye to pads no matter what the compound
Ok, so I rode 14 laps this time round (2014 Strathpuffer). Not fast, nor a big number of laps, a bit below average. But I didn't hold back on the downs nor on the brakes.
I had 6 complete sets (12 pairs) of pads with me. I had bedded in a new set and was running those. I had another bedded in set ready to go, and I also had two new sets (unbedded in), and old set (nearly done) - these are all original Hope sintered pads. I also had a set of new organic Hope pads.
As it turned out, I didn't need to change pads for my 14 laps. I was washing the transmission and brakes every 4 laps.It was muddy, and the bike was covered in the gritty Strathpeffer / Contin / Strathpuffer mud.
I have just taken a set of calipers, and measured the pad depth in the various pads. Here are the results:
[b]0.169" Brand new pads
0.1655" bedded in rear
0.164" bedded in front
0.1635" puffer 14 laps rear
0.163" puffer 14 laps front
0.113" old pads, nearly done
0.081" backing plate thickness[/b]
Worst case wear = 0.002" for 14 laps
Bedded in pads have about 0.064" pad depth
Therefore, if using till 0.1", pads have enough 'meat' for 448 laps of Strathpuffer course = 3046 miles.
The conclusion is there is something else going on when we hear reports of pads getting eaten in a few laps. Certainly, if you turn up with pads on their last legs, then wear them through to the backing, that will mess up your rotors and that will munch pads.
Maybe using organic pads will see them worn away as well, I don't know, we'd have to experiment with that.
Maybe not cleaning the brakes every few laps would start to wear them faster, but to be honest I don't believe that is a big factor - the bike was covered in mud long before any of the downhill sections, every lap.
IMHO, if you start with new sintered pads, and your breaks are in good working order, you will be fine in this race on one set of pads, easily.
p.s. bedding in is another thing that I feel may be a myth, but I need to conduct a similar test with the bedded in pads vs the brand new pads.
Scientific.... imperial....
Pick one.
I think the conditions have been worse other years.
Scientific.... imperial....Pick one.
Decimal Imperial - I pick BOTH!
I think the conditions have been worse other years.
Not sure about 2013, though it was freezing that year? But yeh, heard some years were a mudbath and the course has been improved. I am still deeply skeptical that properly set up pads can be worn through so quickly.
Mythbusters?
To be honest I didn't use anywhere near as much pad material this year.
This is due to me having a 29er now so the wheels are doing fewer revolutions. FACT.
The course was almost bone dry compared to previous years.
The course is also different now, compared to several years back there's much more 'armoured' trail and much less 'off piste' through the woods.
Brake pad wear ain't what it used to be, but thanks for getting your calipers out ;-D
Surely the trails coming alive helped then? 😈
While we're picking nits, doesn't he mean 'empirical'? 🙂
Good news about the nightmare pad use though!
While we're picking nits, doesn't he mean 'empirical'?
Nope, he really means imperial 🙂
WHO CARES?!?!?!?
I dont think anyone who has done one puffer can claim anything.
Only a fool would turn up to race strathpuffer with 1 set of brake pads
( ive missed 2 i think - was in nz once and possibly equatorial guinea the other.....although thinking back i cant think why........ Maybe it was only 1 i missed )
[quote=andypandy85]WHO CARES?!?!?!?
Maybe people who are going to do the 2015 Strathpuffer and are wondering about how many pads they are going to have to buy?
Thanks for your call!
[quote=trail_rat]I dont think anyone who has done one puffer can claim anything.
Only a fool would turn up to race strathpuffer with 1 set of brake pads
I'd say that one new and bedded set of sintered pads, on a bike with properly functions brakes and not knackered rotors, should easily be able to do one race. But yeh, having a couple of spare is advisable, for sure.
As to my claim... I am providing kinda solid evidence and methods I think. The internet is really bad for hearsay and unbacked-up statements, I am just trying to counter that with my measured findings.
[quote=twinklydave]The course was almost bone dry compared to previous years.
It wasn't too bad, but there was still plenty mud to go about. And I agree it is gritty stuff. I am still trying to get it out of all my kit 🙂
With In a sample of 1 race. , thats poor evidence of anything
Track changes a bit every year , some years ive gone through loads , others not so much, some years wore them out in a lap , others used none.
No really - that was not a muddy puffer.you realise that the lap times posted by the sharp end were some of the fastest ever right - and as fast almost as a summer dry lap - ive seen 27minutes round there in the dry....and i believe dan whitehead was under 29 last weekend.
In the past its been so muddy it stops your wheels , some segments you hit at speed and your bike stopped..........
Sure, ok, this is my experience of one race up there. I still refuse to believe that properly setup and maintained brakes will eat pads in 14 miles, or 100 miles, or much more, of that course, of that mud, no matter what the conditions.
It wasn't too bad, but there was still plenty mud to go about. And I agree it is gritty stuff. I am still trying to get it out of all my kit
That'll never happen. Expect to find bits of glitter in your shorts for the rest of their useful life 😮
Glitter/silica.
I can't trust anyone that spells brakes like that 😀
your breaks are in good working order
Glitter/silica.
Stop trying to butch it up. It's glitter. 🙂
[quote=fozzybear]I can't trust anyone that spells brakes like that
That was on purpose, so the thread can be found on Google by people that spell it that way 🙂
[quote=twinklydave]Expect to find bits of glitter in your shorts
As long as it's no Gary, I'm no bothered 😯
I have the solution . Cme back next year - do more laps see if the conditions are more unfavorable.
Fwiw - on a very similar course whe the conditions have been more wintery - its only been recently we got past the 24 laps in 24 hours record......now jase has smashed it....yes jase is going well , but that course was riding fast.....the mud was sloppy and wattery not gloopy and sticky as it has been in years gone by, in the first puffer the trail was hub deep mud in lots of places - till it froze it was the same 4 years ago- who remembers the slog into the woods - the one where you came off the last descent didnt turnright and pitched into the mud - then your bike stopped.....
Being local to the area and getting to ride here often I was also mystified by such reports of going through so many sets of brake pads. It could easily put people off with just the cost of brake pads, so thanks for your attempt to clear this up. I’m still mystified by why people do this race. Perhaps you could find some scientific answer, I get nowhere when I apply common sense to the question ‘why do the puffer’? Anyway I won’t lose any sleep over it.
I did my first Puffer, indeed my first solo, this year and even though it seems that it was an "easier" year I found that my brake pads are only 1/2 worn for 26 laps. I used a new set of Hope sintered F&R to start with and simply tried to brake as little as possible, which got VERY scary down the last descend.
I did however wreck 2 single speed chains. The chains were both new Sram PC1 Nickel and the tension was set up right. Does anyone have any recommendations for a hard wearing single speed chain as I may have a go at another 24 solo in the future and don't want to have to stop to change my chain again, if I can avoid it. Cheers
Ive always used the pc99 hollowpin chains on my singlespeeds , no discernable wear ever beyond the initial fitting wear
Never had good luck with those pc1s they are worth approximately the 6.99 they cost ..... No more,
Rohloff chains are supposed to be very wear resistant.
This year was the softest 'Puffer yet as far as the conditions were concerned. I wouldn't take it as a baseline for brake wear.
I think the worse times for brake wear are when it is sleeting down and the temperature is just below freezing, so the mud is more gel like. The worst years for brake wear have been like that.
I have a theory about this. The sleet and gel mud combo cleans the rotor spotless and the grit in the gel mud then acts like a grinding paste, but you need that combination of conditions.
The other possibility is simply that the pad manufacturers have lifted their game.
If you're riding solo and unsupported, then pad changes during the race cost valuable time - trying to change pads with fingers like numb sausages in the dark small hours while shivering is no fun.
It's a good idea to not bother taking spare set of pads to the 'Puffer. It gives you an excuse to retire early when it's at its most miserable.
Competitor "Yeah, I was doing ok, but I ran out of brakes, so I had to retire"
Wellwisher "What a shame, hard luck that"
Competitor - secret smile. 🙂
Snapped chains seemed to be the mechanical of choice this year! Seen double figures of folk who had done the same, strange. I used the same pads for the event (cut short by my knee deciding against me pedalling) but I'm under no illusion that as far as puffers go, that was a mild one.
I managed to wear through a brand new set of pads last year, installed at kingshouse, back to the metal at kinlochleven. Wet + granitey powder + unbedded pads = not good.
Anyhow, I'll be back next year as I still have 7 sets of pads to use! 😀
Edit - TR, was Dan howes in your quad?
Yar - you know the mancunian mammoth from escape route ? Peter also did an absolutely sterling job of keeping the bikes clean and us/ the girls cafienated
My brake pad wear this year approx 0.5mm on the rear and approx 0.4mm on the front over 10 laps.
The pads were superstar sintered on hope tech X2. New but bedded in before the event.
Still plenty of life left in them.
No, used to ride with him with walkers cc. Top fella, really good mechanic and a cracking rider too. Met him and Catherine on the start line, hadn't seen him for a while, and was really pleased to see him. His big manc shouts of encouragement for your pit area were very welcome too!.
Meant to ask him, wheres he working now?
Hes in escape route pitlochry working for kev dangerous now
They living up there now. Dans got much much quicker now he has actual hills to ride from the door