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Though at 475mm, it's happily compatible with many fat forks out there.
indeed Brant, and this was the main reason i didn't feel the need, anything from Surly, salsa and On-One would do the job nicely, albeit in a different colour. I can't help but feel the bike would lose some of its balance and directness with a balloon upfront, but what i really need to do is try it out and find out for myself. I didn't set out to design a semi fat bike, what i wanted was a 29er that railed and took you over the edge
Not a full 29+ bike then ?! not many of those around?
I've ridden a Krampus and thought it was sweet, but i guess its a BMX thing, the idea of short stays and a skinnier back tyre - spins up faster, feels lighter, a lot more direct. The Stooge is superlight at the front and this would disappear with the longer stays needed for 29+, and all that rotating weight. I did seriously consider it a year ago but decided not to go down that route.
650+ fits in the rear, i'm a lot more interested in that, looking forward to the tyres hitting these shores and having a play, maybe make a few tweeks for the next run of frames.
spectabilis - MemberI'm currently running On-One OG's
I like the look of those OG bars, very tempted to try some on my Krampus.
doof_doof - Member
Bonesetter - out of interest, how does the Stooge compare to your By:Stickel?
The two bikes have a fair few similarities, despite the By:Stickle being designed around a 120mm suspension fork.
Both have short CS's, both are steel, and both share a high front end, which makes for a more upright posture, 'weight back' attitude and therefore lightness up front. I'm 6'2" and have a long body so a high front is what I need, but the whole thing can be taken further
I really wanted to do away with a suspension fork - for the riding I do - 'woodsy' let's say, there really isn't a need for 'travel'. A light front with a big volume tyre is perfect
As soon as I saw the Stooge I knew that was the bike was for me. It's a sort of cheap Jones bike in many ways
The 'stickle hasn't seen much action for a while and the frame is collecting dust. Maybe I should build it with the Niner RDO fork??
Thanks for the insight, the Stooge is obviously very capable if the Bystickel isn't getting any love.
Or,what am I saying - a fat front
I am going to try OO Marys for a while....Lots of other bars in the shed to try if these ain't to my liking
Running a knard up front and yes they aint the best in mud and wet but pretty good overall....Did me fine round the Highland trail. I will put on a Magic Mary on the front for winter duties.
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I can't help but feel the bike would lose some of its balance and directness with a balloon upfront, but what i really need to do is try it out and find out for myself. I didn't set out to design a semi fat bike, what i wanted was a 29er that railed and took you over the edge
Fair enough!
Just out of curiosity, I decided to weigh my fat front wheel(HuskerDu and 65mm carbon rim), it's a whopping 60g heavier than the Knard/RabitHole 29+ wheel.
I am going to try OO Marys for a while....Lots of other bars in the shed to try if these ain't to my liking
Try them a bit more dropped down - pointed more at your back axle than your saddle.
I did what Brant just recomended to the Mary's on my commuter a few weeks ago & it does indeed work. Feels a little weird at first but I like it. Almost akin to something like Woodcutters.
I did what Brant just recomended to the Mary's on my commuter a few weeks ago & it does indeed work. Feels a little weird at first but I like it. Almost akin to something like Woodcutters.
You sort of "sit into" them a bit more? I'd almost use "hunker down" but it's probably wrong 😉
FutonRC - do you use your knard in your jones much or generally find yourself going back to fat? I'm tempted to get a 29+ wheel built for my jones but struggling to think where I'd prefer it over the Bud given my experience with a knard on my swift.
Also still think these stooges would potentially benefit from a stiffer fork given the length and profile with the massive caveat that I haven't ridden one. Swift vs jones and I can't think of a single scenario where I prefer the flexier swift fork when generally dicking around and chasing mates on full sus bikes. Sure, the flex in the swift fork has its place but for me it doesn't tie in with design ethos of the stooge which kind of matches the reason why I bought my jones; great fun to ride on any trail without the hassle of shock servicing etc. Even the guy at field bikes made a truss for his 29er. Downside is increased cost and whacky aesthetics I guess.
Gotama - fat every time!
I've just put the 29+ wheel back on, just to see how it compares to my new carbon setup, which is only 60g heavier. A quick spin around the garden shows that the 29+ wheel still has a slight advantage for acceleration - due to rolling resistance I guess (though the new grippyer 29+ tyres may not have this advantage). I've not had this wheel on for ages - a year maybe, I pretty much dropped it when conditions got wet, so it will be interesting to see how it goes.
So yeah - I hardly ever use the 29+ and with my new 65mm carbon rim, I son't see that changing!
Thanks for the tip Brant.....I will drop them tomorrow.
Took her on a maiden voyage tonight..15 miles of mixed singletrack and fire-road.
The bike just blew all expectations! Just instant love...felt like an old friend. Listening to Andrew(designer) I kept a good stack height under the stem. Front end just pops up on demand. The short stays make it feel really nimble on the ST.Felt very comfy and I cant wait to try it on some big miles and also some steeper terrain.
Anyhow...great job mt stooge!
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FRC - that's interesting and kind of what I expected so I' ill stick with tubeless bud given what I use the bike for. Thanks, you've just saved me the best part of 300 quid on a front wheel........but then again the carbon rim sounds interesting 🙂
Brant,
What are the differences between the O-One Mary and OG bars? I'm looking at the alloy ones as a possibility on my Krampus.
Cheers
Paceman
Gotama - go carbon 😉 the HUDU/carbon wheel is 900g lighter than the Bud wheel it replaced. It really does just feel so much more lively, I won,t need the Bud until it gets really muddy. Still, it's nice to have 3 different wheels to choose from. I've got a 35mm carbon rim in the back as well, so roughly 24lb with a fat front.
I seem to have acquired a SS Stooge which I'll build up just as soon as I can get a headset and will once and for all answer the question 6' 4" yes or no.
Is the Stooge nationally recognised in the biking community now?
Everywhere the bike goes I get interest and comments.
It's like bees round a honey pot
How do you find the big front tyre, it's really comfortable isn't it, I'm thinking of getting one, it's not that expensive is it etc
Only yesterday I called on a mate for a ride and as we came out of his place a couple on cross bikes over the road called over How long you had you had your Stooge mate??
He ended up having a quick spin round on it and said he was going to buy one
Martinh - look forward to seeing your feedback - my mate is 6'4" and is chomping on the bit for a Stooge
MartinH, it was good to meet you yesterday (SSUK14), following our chat/ride it raised a smile when you won the frame. Be really interested to hear how you get on, especially as you already own a Jones. Comparisons would be really cool. cheers.
So, as Mr Stooge has started the Jones/Stooge discussion, let's grasp the nettle 🙂
What are the differences, and as I understand things the Stooge is a progression forward over the Jones
I know Stooges CS's are shorter and the front end is different, in what exact way I would like to find out
Great to meet jonestown @ SSUK - and 3 other Stooges! What is the collective noun?
Stoogi 😉
Oh and I must stop looking at this thread! I've only had my Cotic a couple of months!!
What are the differences, and as I understand things the Stooge is a progression forward over the Jones.
The Stooge is a progressive design but not necessarily an improvement over the Jones in my opinion. The Stooge is a different and interesting take on rigid trail bike design, whilst both have their place in the current market (but neither in my shed unfortunately 🙁 )
Great to meet you Andy and I enjoyed our conversation and my mini test ride. I'd have probably remained Stooge curious without this amazing opportunity to build and play with one.
Somehow missed my chance to finally meet Clink, unless we chatted and I didn't realise it was you.
Soon as I have the headset I'll build it and borrow my Jones's wheels - what better way to compare
Andy, thanks for the brief chat yesterday also, great to meet you.
(Pre-ride, by your car, shifty looking chap on green Niner...
Sorry I didn't manage to get to try one of your Stooges out, had to head off early.
Everything you said totally made sense & is what I'm looking for in a bike.
The bikes looked lovely in the flesh. Angles wise they look spot on.
Now to work on the acquisitions committee... 😉
Somehow missed my chance to finally meet Clink, unless we chatted and I didn't realise it was you.
😯 I saw you but didn't realise who you were until I got home - shonky!
SSUK15?
I've now had a couple of rides on my Stooge - Dartmoor and SSUK. I prefer it over the Jones I had. In my mind is equally good going down but a better climber (ss).
I swung my leg over a couple of those Stoogees (the plural has a double ee - it's an irregular name / bike).
Liked it, particularly with the 29x3" front end. It felt stable, vaguely unstoppable but still manoeuvrable.
Nice.
Sam's Puffins seemed to be the other bike of interest over the weekend.
Also nice.
forgive my ignorance, im not very good at understanding the intricacies of slightly differing geometry. ive got a singular gryphon with ragly luxy bars. can the stooge be built up using these bars or would that be silly and cancel out how its sposed to ride?
what would be the difference between the two bikes (frames) if i bought a stooge frame and stuck all the gryphon kit onto it?
Definitely very Stooge-curious after spending a weekend sleeping near one! (Hi Clink, I was the one with the "normal" bike)
Sorry, what's "normal" at SSUK exactly?
Well I had an inbred with exotic carbon forks and 650b wheels squeezed in, but the guys I came with had a handmade carbon full suss and a canti-braked sharpied karate monkey!
inbred with exotic carbon forks and 650b wheels squeezed in
Deviant. You'll be riding gears next.
Shhh, I might get...
Booed
Sadexpunk, i've built a stooge with woodchipper bars, because i could, i guess, and i use it as my down the shops and round the block hack, it rides well but doesn't even come close to how my main bike rides off-road. Because the Gryphon is designed for drops it will probably have a shorter top tube to take the forward reach of the drops into account. If you're a tall gent then the Stooge would probably feel very similar, if you're shorter then you'd have to run a short stem to take the above into account. Anything goes, i say.
How tall are you, and what size Gryphon do you ride?
Stooges were a bit common at SSUK14, they were even giving them away 😉
Nice looking frame, awful blue colour
Nice looking frame, awful blue colour
Nicer colour than your swift 😉
Sadexpunk, i've built a stooge with woodchipper bars, because i could, i guess, and i use it as my down the shops and round the block hack, it rides well but doesn't even come close to how my main bike rides off-road. Because the Gryphon is designed for drops it will probably have a shorter top tube to take the forward reach of the drops into account. If you're a tall gent then the Stooge would probably feel very similar, if you're shorter then you'd have to run a short stem to take the above into account. Anything goes, i say.How tall are you, and what size Gryphon do you ride?
im 5'10 and a medium gryphon. i like the luxy bars and just wondered whether id feel more 'upright' on a stooge than a gryphon, or whether id need normal risers to go with it.
also, how do they compare weight-wise? the stooge seems to be considered as quite heavy, but everybody loves riding it, so im interested in whether thats the same for the gryphon.
thanks
the size would be perfect for you. I think the stooge will be longer in th toptube and slightly taller at the front, you'd have no problem emulating your current set-up. The best way to describe the stooge is that it's a 6" trail bike without the suspension, and by that i'm referring to the riding position. It will ride better off road with a flat bar, but if you're a fan of dirt drops and like/are used to the lower position, then go for it i say.
I had a set of luxys once and really enjoyed them until i hit a boulder and caned myself. went back to flats after that 🙂
A good bar for you on the stooge would be the jones bend bar, lots of sweep and a very happy riding position.
re weight, my demo bike was built up just shy of 26lbs, so no heavyweight. Once i fitted dually rims and knard the weight went up substantially. Having said that it rides very well with the Big.
Nice looking frame, awful blue colour
Nicer colour than your swift
Equally bad, I hate blue
Sorry it's a bit of a general question but how do you think the Stooge would compare to my Solaris with 120 mm forks ?
Every time this thread pops up I can’t help thinking they look like fun !
I could easily get away without suspension but I would probably only be using a large-ish standard tyre up front with a 30 mm Lite Bicycle rim.
I run mine with a 2.4 Ardent front, 2.3 Ground Control rear, Flow rims. I have got a Knard but not put it on yet, haven't felt the need tbh. It's a great trail bike, but I consider it more of an all-rounder. But it's still a rigid bike. I would echo Andy's comments - works best for me with a nice wide, flat bar.
Are the t-shirts for sale or only for owners?
t-shirts are for sale, £15 with free postage, M, L, XL. Haven't got round to putting them on the website yet, if you fancy one let me know.
What size does the medium measure up at? I'm a racing snake!
Clink - You say you've ridden your Stooge on Dartmoor... Does this mean you live on or near Dartmoor?
I'm thinking if you do, I'd love to meet up to obtain a test ride...
A few miles under my belt on the Stooge and I have to say..its superb.
Very nimble,super comfy and ridiculous fun!
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Clink - You say you've ridden your Stooge on Dartmoor... Does this mean you live on or near Dartmoor?
I'm thinking if you do, I'd love to meet up to obtain a test ride...
Somerset. Where are you?
@Kbrembo: How well do ESI Aqua grips match the frame colour?
Clink- I'm in Buckfastleigh, south Dartmoor. So not too far away from you
miranmtb - Member@Kbrembo: How well do ESI Aqua grips match the frame colour?
Depending on the light...90% match
Depending on the light...90% match
Tnx, so not that bad ... black grips look a bit dull, looking for more colour 😀
julioflo - I'm Totnes based with a Jones if you ever fancy a go on that....
oh, and we may be able to lure Clink and a certain Puffin rider off here down for some exotic riding too.... 😉
I've now had a couple of rides on my Stooge - Dartmoor and SSUK. I prefer it over the Jones I had. In my mind is equally good going down but a better climber (ss).Clink, As a reunited Jones owner and designer of a few bikes now, I wondered what made/makes the Stooge a better climber in your view? My understanding is its shorter at the back, slacker at the front and higher at the BB. None of which, when applied to mechanics of climbing on a bike suggest better climbing but the opposite.
To be clear, I get to ride with a Placid Casual and his a Stooge and I like the look of it, I have no axe to grind or competitive motive, just interested from the position of a geometry geek 😀
My understanding is its shorter at the back, slacker at the front and higher at the BB. None of which, when applied to mechanics of climbing on a bike suggest better climbing but the opposite.
Head angle / slacker alone makes little odds on climbing, weight distribution and actual trail does though. A longer wheelbase can give you more room to move without upsetting your general balance - shorter works for some, less so for others. And when set-up SS, either bike will have a rear end length dictated by gearing, I'm guessing that both bikes will set up the same if the EBBs are centred in a place that allows the usual range of gears and 2.4 tyre room.
Was waiting for the Jones ride-comparisons to surface : ) The stooge seems to be as close to hardtail 29er geo as it is to a Jones but the idea of a higher front and more offset to get your hands behind the f axle is Jones-originated. That makes a big difference over conventional geo imo. There's other bikes with 69-70 head angles and 52-55mm offset forks to compare to also - eg an o-o fatty has those numbers.
Peanut, Let's meet up. Would deffo love to see what the Jones is like.
my email is justin at solidwool . com
Then regarding Clink and the Puffin rider it would also be good to get together as those two bikes are kind of where my next bike thoughts are leading. Or an O-O Fatty...
Peanut, Let's meet up. Would deffo love to see what the Jones is like.
my email is justin at solidwool . comThen regarding Clink and the Puffin rider it would also be good to get together as those two bikes are kind of where my next bike thoughts are leading. Or an O-O Fatty...
I'm up for that - probably have to be a Sunday though. Would be good to see you peanut!
I found the stooge a completely different beast to O-O Fatty I had.
I have ridden the Stooge a fair bit now and I've found the riding position very comfortable. Mixture of a high front, long TT and short stem have made the position perfect. I had the O-O set up similarly but for some reason it never felt right. Possibly lower front end?
Climbing on the stooge is easily better than the fatty, I realise there was a weight penalty. The 'superior'grip, that many claim, of the fatty never shone through for me.
I fount the fatty average all round and not very inspiring however the Stooge is a superb bike all round (mix of trail centre, XC and a little road/commuting so far). It's the sort of bike that makes you smile. It's being used more than the Explosif and it's not even muddy yet!
I'm a serial bike swapper because I rarely get on with bikes but when I find a good one it stays with me for a long time. I think I found one of my perfect N+1s!
Ride 1 completed. Wheels and drive chain borrowed from the Jones for convenience.
My initial impression was that the Stooge delivered the same playful/chuckable feel that I had from my previous Paradox and Yelli but with a classic steel smoothness. With a Thomson layback post, a 70mm stem, 2" of spacers and a low riser bar the fit was fine. I'm guessing the ETT with this setup is around my usual 24.5. If you're 6' 4" and are happy with a shorter, more upright ride you should be OK.
The Stooge with Knard up front rides really well. I like the Knard on my Jones but it raises the front and BB just enough to compromise the handling making it harder to keep the front weighted. It seemed perfect on the Stooge.
I think why it climbs well is the stiffness of the bottom bracket. It feels like the is no flex at all. The front fork is stiff too, tracking well through the high speed bumps. This stiffness comes at a cost. In comparison to a Ti Jones I could really feel the weight difference. But then I feel that whenever I switch to another bike (except for the Yelli). Over some surfaces I did feel more vibration through the pedals too. On the plus side the extra weight gives the bike a more planted feeling, something I expect steel Jones's have too.
For ride two I'll definately change the bar. I liked the 745 riser but it was too stiff. I'll try my Renthal next time.
Interesting, I haven't fitted a 3" front to my Jones partly for that reason. But the Jones has a lower BB than pretty much any 29er to start with, lower than the stooge so I guess it's the shorter wheelbase and reach that makes it more sensitive to the front end lift?The Stooge with Knard up front rides really well. I like the Knard on my Jones but it raises the front and BB just enough to compromise the handling making it harder to keep the front weighted.
MartinH - just wondering what stem/bar combo you have on your Jones.
The Jones was never designed to have a 29+ wheel. But you'd think that the increase in diameter would slacken off the head angle and as you say raise the BB a bit too, it also has a high front end to start with. The new Jones plus has a longer wheelbase doesn't it?
worth noting also that with the knard up front, the head angle of the Stooge is about 67 degrees. With a regular front tyre it's 69 degrees. It's a bit like sites quoting non-sagged geometry but the other way round 🙂
Knard vs an average 2.3 is only a degree max, less than that between an Ardent 2.4 and a Knard. It's more the overall effect on trail the bigger f tyre has (ie greater than just the HA change) that I felt wouldn't be to my taste where the Jones is concerned.
I think its a combination of the huge Jones head tube and relatively narrow Jones bars vs the shorter head tube (even with spacers) and wide bars on the Stooge. I did remove the one spacer I had under the Jones stem when I installed the Knard but there's no more adjustment unless I get a -ve rise stem. The 24" Jones has a even longer head tube than the 23".
The Renthal carbon bar on the Stooge is much more comfortable than the Alu it replaced.
I'll try my Light Bicycle 35mm wheel + Ardent upfront next ride.
The Stooge with Knard up front rides really well. I like the Knard on my Jones but it raises the front and BB just enough to compromise the handling making it harder to keep the front weighted.
Interesting. When I first had my Jones I tried to replicate my normal riding "style!" of weighting the front wheel; then I swapped the Unicrown (which is for sale btw 😀 ) for a Truss which calls for a much higher front end which with the Knard on means weight is further back. I think it's infinitely better as a result.
When I spoke to Jeff about it he agreed, he said he designed the frame/bar/fork so that you were much more centred, with your weight through the pedals, not the bars.
It's only when cornering I look to weight the outside edge. When it's dry and loose failure to do so leads to disaster.
[url= http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/stooge-cycles-back-to-mountain-bike-basics/016855 ]Stooge Cycles: Back to mountain bike basics[/url]
Great write-up featuring interview with Mr Stooge
I am currently running Ardents at about 20psi tubeless on my Stooge but as soon as they wear out I'll be shifting to a pair of 2.35 Hans damphs. Knards just wouldn't work on my trails around Dunkeld and pitlochy. Very natural and sometimes very steep loam and the damphs just work in these conditions. I'm totally addicted to my stooge by the way and I'm an old school down Hiller. #justgetone
I am currently running Ardents at about 20psi tubeless on my Stooge but as soon as they wear out I'll be shifting to a pair of 2.35 Hans damphs. Knards just wouldn't work on my trails around Dunkeld and pitlochy. Very natural and sometimes very steep loam (and usually wet)and the damphs just work in these conditions. I'm totally addicted to my stooge by the way and I'm an old school down Hiller and still love my full bounce but the stooge is addictive and so much fun. #justgetone
Stooge Cycles: Back to mountain bike basicsGreat write-up featuring interview with Mr Stooge
New models planned...any info?
very early days yet, but i'm working on a fork and bars at the moment, very interested in producing a Ti version, and then there's the whole idea of 650+. All i need to do now is sell more frames to fund all the above shenanigans 🙂
ti version mmmmmmmm...... 😀
Or get funding??
I would put my name down for a Ti version!
How about a kickstarter project? You've proven yourself with the current Stooge.
About to settle in for a 'working at home day' while waiting for my Stooge to be delivered.
^ ooh congrats
You're in for some fun 🙂
Do post pics
If all goes to plan, I'll be test riding one this weekend 🙂