[Closed] Steve Jones off of Dirt - is it just me?

No its not just you, I struggle with enthusiasm to continue reading alot of it be it wording or layout. Yellow text on white background was my fav.

Yes, in a word, however when you understand what he's saying it's usually pretty spot on IMO, have you read the 29er article in this months edition 😀

The 29'er issue this month could have been really good, but I just gave up in the end.

I don't know what you're trying to say Steve!

EDIT: Ha, beaten to it. I don't doubt he knows his stuff, but it's like he makes it overly complicated. The bike reviews are horrendous, I just don't bother any more..

I subscribe to Dirt and ride an Orange Alpine 160...

...and I also struggle to read articles/reviews written by Steve Jones. As one friend put it; "Reading Steve Jones is guaranteed to make you illiterate."

No, the articles in general are utter drivel. They desperately need a sub to go through it all and fix it. One article that jumps into my mind is one about a Commencal Supreme - they swapped the stock fork for another fork, and spent roughly a third of the review debating their relative merits, without mentioning at any point what forks they were on about.

I thought they'd gotten a bit better on the text/background colours, but I haven't bought one in a while.

Whole magazine is an unreadable mess.

Saying 'off of' like that queefmeister scott mills puts you even more 'on trend', well done!

I was given Dirt sub as a gift, i don't think i would have bought it being your average bloke fast approaching middle age.

I must admit that I prefer the mag now to where it was about 12 months ago, in that it used to be nothing but DH bikes and flouro pyjamas or Dirt jump bikes and skinny jeans, alienating 90% of the MTB'ers that don't dress that way (but wish I guess was there niche).

The mag now seems to have a lot more emphasis on trail bikes, Alp style riding and these "new" Enduro style events that more people can relate to.

But I do agree, a lot of what he writes is tosh and why they feel the need to have half the font so that it is only readable by 15 years old and half the font vertically up the page so it is only readable by drunks is beyond me..

I stopped reading the articles a couple of years ago and now just buy it for the photos/ kit reviews.
I just don't think Steve Jones has the writing or language skills to write what he wants to write.

Saying 'off of' like that queefmeister scott mills puts you even more 'on trend', well done!

Wait until I start quoting TOWIE....

It's a shame there isn't a magazine slightly more 'jumpy' than STW but a bit less....shite than Dirt. I like the fact Dirt is going more 'traily' - its not all 180mm bikes anymore but its just unreadable. Which is a shame...

Aside from Steve Jones waffling on about a load of nonsense and not getting to the point, he's actually technically wrong quite a lot.
I also hate the fact that every bike they test must have a 50mm stem. as anything else is wrong and rubbish. That's fine for you Steve, but some people actually ride their bikes for more than a couple of hours...

I think the heart of Dirt is in the right place, but it has such poor execution that it's very hard to read.
Usually gives me a headache.

I used to love Dirt when it came out about 10ish years ago. Decent writing, good products and plenty of technical info. Very readable, even though it had a DH "bent" it crossed over quite well. Got a bit too MBUK after a bit and I stopped getting it.

It's weird, when I flick through Dirt it looks like a totally unreadable mess (all-be-it with great photos). But when I sit on the bog and actually read the articles, I really like them.

Know what you're saying about Steve Jones, but I think I sort of "get" him..

[edit]The stem length thing is the same in MBR!

I have the same opinion of Jones, his writing is utterly atrocious to the point where it is largely unreadable. 90% of the time I'm not even sure what point he's trying to make, and there's times when I've started reading an article without knowing the author, but I soon realise its another Steve Jones special.

Its getting to the point where I may cancel my sub, which is a shame as I think the content is spot on.

abarthchris, you might want to read the thread title....

I agree with a lot of the comments on here - Dirt has the potential to be a great mag. I actually quite like the variety these days and I love the racer's perspective given to a lot of the pieces. The reviews are very hit and miss though and my biggest problem has always been with the editorial "style". I'm no English language expert but the typo's and grammatical errors do make it hard to read. I think Steve Jones (amongst others) has some good stuff to say..he just doesn't make it easy on the reader.

And as for the fonts/colour schemes..... I've got a head ache just thinking about them!

Shame really as it could be great.

abarthchris, you might want to read the thread title....

Dammit! threadtitlereadfail! I shall hang my head in shame, and edit my post before no-one else notices...

Flange - You need to be beaten with a spoon for talking like that douchebag Mills!

It came out over 15 years ago bigyin. Each editor has had their own unique style of typing fashionable bollox with their own misunderstanding thrown in for good measure.
some of it is worth reading but you need a decent knowledge of the subject in the first place to know what. 😉

I can cope with content that I deem to be bollocks, but its the fact that I cant even decipher Jones' writing enough to form an opinion either way!

There's no flow or sentence structure, and they're often too short and the paragraphs are disjointed. If you handed his article to an high shool English teacher, he'd probably get a C-.

I also hate the fact that every bike they test must have a 50mm stem. as anything else is wrong and rubbish. That's fine for you Steve, but some people actually ride their bikes for more than a couple of hours...

i don't read dirt, but that advice is so absolutely spot on that i may well start doing!

why does a 50mm stem prevent you from riding more than 2 hours?

It came out over 15 years ago bigyin. Each editor has had their own unique style of typing fashionable bollox with their own misunderstanding thrown in for good measure.
some of it is worth reading but you need a decent knowledge of the subject in the first place to know what.

I wish I knew everything...

Dirt do a 'letters page' debate on this sort of thing about once a year... Their view is that for everyone who writes in saying they hate the format/ layout/ text size/ colours etc, someone else writes in saying that they love it.

I know what people mean about Mr Jones' writing, it can be rambling. I remember one recent review where he spent the article giving the bike a real slating - then summed up saying how great and perfect for the UK it was. BUT he does bring a fresh perspective and speaks his mind, take his swing towards 29ers based on his own timed run testing.

Horses for courses. In any debate, you will find people who like one style, dislike another. Me, I like Steve Jones articles and dislike ones by Jen in ST; it probably isnt just me, but i wouldnt expect everybody (or anybody!) to see it the same. The beauty of choice.

GW - Member

It came out over 15 years ago bigyin. Each editor has had their own unique style of typing fashionable bollox with their own misunderstanding thrown in for good measure.
some of it is worth reading but you need a decent knowledge of the subject in the first place to know what.

I also hate the fact that every bike they test must have a 50mm stem. as anything else is wrong and rubbish. That's fine for you Steve, but some people actually ride their bikes for more than a couple of hours...

Maybe, or maybe not, they do tend to ride medium or large frames for tests whereas a lot of mags ride smalls and mediums, which gives them a longer top tube and so shorter stems are a better fit.

some of it is worth reading but you need a decent knowledge of the subject in the first place to know what.

No, you just need to have the same ideas as the editor. Just because you disagree with him doesn't make him wrong and you right, it just means you prefer different things, if you wrote a magazine he's probably diagree with you as well.

It's not that I find it rambling and I don't doubt he knows his subject. My mate used to race with him and said he's pretty handy on a bike. Its just the structure of his sentences that I struggle with.

As mentioned further up, you never need to see who the author of the article is if its Jones. About two paragraphs in, I'm normally completely confused and at that point I know its been penned by Jones.

I've test ridden and subsequently bought 2 bikes on the back of his reviews.

2005 Specialized Enduro
Cannondale Prophet

Both fantastic bikes.

Although sometimes difficult to read, the enthusiasm for riding is apparent in his writing rather than describing in painfull detail the shape of the hydroformed down-tube or some nuance of the suspension that only a Formula 1 mechanic could begin to understand.

his bike reviews are laughable.

of course the bike with custom tuned shock and forks is great. what about hte crap it comes with for the person who will actually buy the sodding thing?

also the zesty/spicy thing. why are they 'great bikes' when you need a shock/fork tune and offset bushes and headset? surely they are shit bikes that need alot of work to get them good?

i used to like his rambling articles but now even they are getting a bit thin. he needs to put some effort in to an article rather than just riding loads then blagging it.

his articles can be a bit rambling but i appreciate the fact that hes saying exactly what he thinks

reviews are only an opinion after all, at least with jonesys stuff its very clear that its his opinion, even if i do disagree with it.

That's fine for you Steve, but some people actually ride their bikes for more than a couple of hours...

he seemed very capable of riding for more than a couple of hours at the brechfa enduro, he came in a respectable place (10th?) and he seemed fresh as a daisy after it, whereas i was destroyed!

and the stem on his 29er was tiny, doubt it was even 50, looked like 30mm to me!!

anyone who writes "of off" can hardly comment on anyone else's writing ability!

though Dirt is a bit shit.

using the same size stem to test all the bikes makes a lot of sense. it's called minimising variables.

steve jones articles may be hard to read, but he can ride a bike better than any of you, and at least the reviews are based on his opinion and not the bribery that is rife in most other magazines.

The layout issues are from back when Dirt was first launched by 4130. The looks and feel is / was similar to that of its sister title, Dig. There are reasons for this - mostly to do with the target readership.

It's got a new owner now (Magicalia, which also owns BikeMagice etc).

The spelling and grammar is a 'feature' as much as the layout, which is a bit of a follow-on from the mid-90s layout styles adopted by Raygun.

In part, it's an editorial policy of 'never mind the spelling, here's the enthusiasm'. It continues to work well, even if it makes ex-journalists like me squint and mutter.

Oh, and having spent a fair amount of time with the Jones on Welsh hillsides and muddy car parks in the Valleys and at Metabief a few years back, I'd say he's a very nice guy who knows a lot about riding a bike. I'd trust his reviews over plenty of others.

his guitar playing on this is legendry....... 8)

using the same size stem to test all the bikes makes a lot of sense. it's called minimising variables.

For the record, I'm not questioning whether he's a nice guy or not. He likes bikes, therefore he's clearly a good bloke.

I just struggle with his writing style and the grey on black text.

Isn't it Ride BMX thats on 4130?

I seem to have a sub.
Reckon GW is about spot on, I think of opinion and test stuff in Dirt as being about as authoritative as conversations you have with mates at the urinal at closing time in the pub.
Doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong or right, they're just someone's thoughts.

Good on him for making a career out of writing despite any handicaps he might have. Most of us are restricted to airing our opinions in places like this, without getting paid for it.

"[i]steve jones articles may be hard to read, but he can ride a bike better than any of you[/i]"

you forgot ... "SO THERE!" 😛

Flange, you're right - it's Dirt. Apologies.

If Singletrack's writing ability and editorial could be combined with Dirt's subject matter and attitude (less whimsical contemplation, more gnarr and shredding 😉 ) I'd be a happy camper.

So is this what happened to that Drit magazine that used to be talked about on stw all the time?

Also, is it just me waiting for a user called 'SteveOffOfDirt' to come onto this thread and chip in?

I doubt we'd understand what he was saying anyway 😉

Seen him about a few times here in the FoD with the Monmouth crew.
He sure can ride a bike way better than most and drink like a fish 🙂
Top bloke then if you ask me

steve jones articles may be hard to read, but he can ride a bike better than any of you, and at least the reviews are based on his opinion and not the bribery that is rife in most other magazines.

Ha! I bet his dad is bigger than mine too! *shakeshead*

No one is questioning his bike riding talent, nor his testing abilities, but for god's sake, he gets paid to write for a magazine! He should at least be able to write an article that is decipherable!

I've flicked through many Dirts on mates' coffee tables, struggle to even complete one article. No doubt many think his writing style is "da bomb" or whatever, I think it's lame.

But I am an off-trend Radio 4 type.

[i] I think it's lame[/i]

Yes, they do use far too many Americanisms, don't they? 😉

I've no doubt the guy can ride a bike at all and i don't actually mind his articles so much, for me it is the fact that they will put yellow type on white background, or so small you have to squint or going up the page so you have to keep turning the magazine (making it difficult to read on the toilet groggy eyed in the mornings).

I like Dirt and I like Jonesy's articles - his photos aren't half bad either

With SJ's articles you have to get the gist of what he's saying. I trust his opinions even if I have to work a bit to interpret them!

I reckon acid would help the copy make sense. Only mag with what I call true 'sports' photography as opposed to landscapes with a bike though. Makes me want to ride more than any other mag.

I subscribe to ST and Dirt. I quite like Dirt and Jones' articles at the minute. The typface thing was a problem a while back but its mostly okay of recent as far as I remember.

But what do I know? I've got max 50mm stems on all my mountain bikes including the ones I ride for longer than two hours! 😉

I like them in general, his articles come over as being written by someone passionate about bikes and riding. I am not really that bothered if his sentence construction is a bit off, in fact I never really notice it. The writer I cant abide in dirt is that Cunny guy with his egotistical, pseudo intellectual claptrap. Horses for courses I guess.

Personally I would buy dirt over any of the other mags out there, makes me want to ride, whereas the others just stop me being bored for a bit.

His writing style used to get my goat too, but now I've kind of tuned into it.

Strangely he seems quite straightforward in his video pieces, even though he talks a bit like his magazine reviews.

Like ianv I prefer reading his stuff to the posturing by a few of the more up themselves regular contributors.

Only mag I've subscribed to (stopped now) and thought it took a turn for the worse when it went monthly.

I should say there is a lot about the mag to like, it has a "road-trip" feel, nice pictures and has a genuine and unique spirit - does make you want to ride.

I don't think it suffers from any "cornering was a copy adn paste affair" style writing either.

There's a surprising amount of people who subscribe to both Singletrack and Dirt. Billy Bragg used to say he subscribed to the Economist and Socialist Worker and by reading both, he got a very balanced view of the world. A bit like that then 🙂

I subscribe to both, somewhere under the old pile of vinyl I think there may be some Billy Bragg too ... 😉

I like Dirt. I think Steve Jones has realised that magazine reviews don't really make a difference, especially since Dirt don't use any sort of '4 stars' metric, so writes accordingly.

It is fun to play Jones bingo though: 'Cockpit combo straight in the bin....OEM tyres swapped for sensible rubber....high tempo riding....hungover.....needs a single ring to silence the beast....increasingly cut up trail centre...angles all wrong, shock needs tuning, ride a size larger, buy this bike.'

I subscribe to Dirt and really enjoy the read. I find Jones enthusiasm and knowledge quite refreshing.

Good comment from Chipps!

I just wish they would get someone to proof read his articles... Silly spelling mistakes and the wrong word that sounds the same (sure its called something, but bear/bare, here/hear, etc etc) might make it slightly less frustrating to read ! Surely 4130 must have someone who reads the magazines before they get put out?!

it could be worse. does anyone remember dirt when jerry dyer was in charge? he went on to start grip 😀 magazine if that helps.

Another Dirt and ST reader here. Different mags, but I like the writing style of Dirt. Yes, there are a quite a few typos and whatnot, but that lends to the sense that it's written by bikers for bikers. I read, write and publish for work so it's refreshing (poetic?) to read passionate words written by someone fully immersed in the kind of biking I [aspire to] do. Saying that, I have lefty tendencies and subscribe to The Economist.

OwenP - Member

Dirt do a 'letters page' debate on this sort of thing about once a year... Their view is that for everyone who writes in saying they hate the format/ layout/ text size/ colours etc, someone else writes in saying that they love it.

Which sounds reasonable... But it's not "like" vs "don't like", it's "like" vs "struggle to read it at all".

But there's really not much point discussing that, they're not very interested. I really like the mag but every so often, along comes an article printed in dark blue on a pink background, or something similiarly idiotic, that might as well just be blank, for me. Not clever.

There's one page I never read in Dirt - the letters page!

I subscribe to Dirt and ST (and MBUK but don't tell anyone).

They are not so far apart as all that, especially since Dirt made more effort to embrace trail riding and enduros.

Dirt is in a very good position in that it is the acknowledged authority on the gravity side of mountain biking - which seems to be where all the attention and money is going.

It has a clear editorial focus and produces some brilliant features (eg. the recent Chris Akrigg piece and Mick Kirkman's interview with Brendan Fairclough) - and the World Cup coverage is superb.

It's definitely the bike mag I look forward to reading the most and Steve Jones' idiosyncratic prose style is a price worth paying I reckon.

I'll pass your feedback onto him, if you would like me to?

I don't know if anyone here used to read Car magazine (at any time from the '60s to the turn of the millennium) but I sorely miss the brilliance (journalistic or any other) of [url= http://m.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/sep/19/guardianobituaries.pressandpublishing?cat=media&type=article ]the late, great LJK Setright[/url]. To quote from a couple of obituaries:

"He peppered his writing with classical allusions, or quotations in Latin or Greek. He once wrote in blank verse about a Citroen. And when, quite recently, the editor of one of Britain's best-known magazines suggested he "tone down" these flights of fancy to suit a more modern audience, his response was to submit a column entirely in Latin (before offering a translation a day later)."

Yet as highbrow his literary flight may be, he got right down to the engineering essence:

"Setright's fame stemmed primarily from his deep love for automobiles and engineering, about which he wrote most consistently and for longest in the monthly magazine Car. He was mostly self-taught on engineering subjects, but his erudition allowed him to meet the motor industry's best engineers on equal terms. It also enabled him to explain complicated concepts to his readers with a rare clarity."

He was also a terrifyingly quick driver - I read an anecdote recently from someone who took their new sports car out for a burn along some great driving roads (back in the days when you could drive fast 😉 ) and was shocked to find some great big saloon car coming up in his mirrors, piloted by the man himself.

His output represented the zenith of magazine writing in my not very humble opinion! But where to find a journalist that actually understands engineering?

I read STW and Dirt like many of the above. Really enjoy Steve Jones. Can't read some of the type but I put that down to being old and so not target audience.

(Also used to read Car and LJK above in the 80s)

chiefgrooveguru, same goes for John Robinson in Performance bikes, proper old school engineer

I'll pass your feedback onto him, if you would like me to?

I'm sure he will lose loads of sleep over the fact that 30 blokes on stw don't like his mag. 🙂

Happy Valentine's Day! I'll reply when i've wiped the tears from my eyes x
steveoffofdirt

Happy Valentine's Day! I'll reply when i've wiped the tears from my eyes x
steveoffofdirt

Another Leonard Setright fan.

Along with Mark Williams, Mac McDiarmid & Brecon Quaddy of 'Bike' magazine, he warped my taste in transport completely. 😀

Setright was always readable though (well, I might have failed with the Latin). You can read a Steve Jones article and come out the other end not knowing if something is good or not.

This review of the BOS Vip'r is one example - I was really keen to find out waht it was like, was considering buying one myself, came away none the wiser.

Running double air amounts to what we would in a similar Fox shock ITS otherwise business as usual externally with compression and rebound adjusters consistent with other air shocks right now. We were interested in the usable range rather than the amount, something we have found on other Bos products and whether the characteristic control gene that runs through the range continues here. Nothing seems to panic the French shockers, monitoring the terrain and consistency through the range.

Heading out onto the trails it was interesting to compare this out of the box Bos to a custom tuned Monarch built for the Zesty and hard dry conditions similar to what we were riding. Having the benefit of a Deville fork up front is a clear advantage when attempting bike set up and instantly there is familiarity front and rear.

It’s easy to get carried away. Taking a 140mm bike onto a track which is in patches beaten up downhill root territory obviously rides the edge of what the bike is made for – we rode it but used as a comparison the newer red route that’s about to open up in the Forest of Dean.

Working alongside Roger Estrada of R53 engineering highlighted the time needed to get near to comfort. On that blown out root tracks we quickly found a good setting in terms of grip yet experienced that more extreme high speed hit support needed work. An instant call to Toulouse confirmed that the Zesty was similar to a couple of other bikes and an evolution of this shock will follow in the next week or so. In terms of traction on shallower root however the Bos is better than what we have ridden on this particular bike.

The Bos has superb consistency and an ability to manage terrain. We ran rebound quite open – about seventeen clicks – this appears similar with other Bos units we have tried in the past. The most noticeable and positive experience came on the recently made trail in the Dean about to open. Although still pretty fresh, the coarse rock material yet to be weathered still produces a grip challenge in isolated places and it was here that we found small changes in the dials transferred to subtle yet definite grip improvements on the bike very, very quickly. And it’s on that type of terrain that many people will be using the VIP’R.

First impressions? In terms of numbers sold like I said it’s probably here on man made forest trails that riders will most use the new Bos damper although I’m sure there will be keen followers in the 160mm range of enduro bikes in the competitive environment. We found it a very easy item to work with in terms of dials. Trying to quantify its value? Very difficult in the short space of time we had. It’s definitely a different feel, the range is more in the middle rather than at the extremes on many air shocks, particularly rebound, and it’s always miserly in the use of inches. In this respect it offers a balance advantage but you really need to spend time on it to extract the real benefit.

Never mind Steve JOnes,what about Alex Jones on the one show ????,HMMMMM lurvally,oh btw i'm fat tooo,& got n Orange 5....lol..

It is fun to play [s]Jones[/s] [b]Hora[/b] bingo though: 'Cockpit combo straight in the bin....OEM tyres swapped for sensible rubber....high tempo riding....hungover.....needs a single ring to silence the beast....increasingly cut up trail centre...angles all wrong, shock needs tuning, ride a size larger, buy this bike

FTFY

I'm sure he will lose loads of sleep over the fact that [s]30[/s] [b]29[/b] blokes on stw don't like his mag.

But I am an off-trend Radio 4 type.

Pretty much only listen to Radio 4, and I read Dirt. I must be a right wrong-'un!

Agree about dirt and st being a little closer than in years back: it was a good few years ago that 'fish out of water' in ST did a downhill race, and a good few years since Dirt reviewed a 'proto' on-one 69er (and raved about it).

I quite like Jones' writing. You can tell Rod Fountain uses his language to win folk over and get them fired up about stuff in his day job too, he is well funny, and I am increasingly liking James McKnight's pieces and fwiw I always thought Richie Cunynghame's column was well writen: he has certainly read a lot of flowery old novels in his time! On the other hand Bryceland's column is rarely anything but complete drivel. (apart from the photo on the one where he tries spd's 😆 )

with all the strong opinion on how rubbish the writing is in the various mags that are discussed on this forum it always baffles me why the god's of quality and class never get their shit together to do a better job of it. 😕

i mean how hard can it be?

Dirt is visually interesting, stimulating even. The design, whilst not always the most clean cut or legible is always visually distinct and exciting. The photographs are generally stunning. In contrast STW, for example is crushingly dull in my opinion, coupled with grimly uninspiring photos and it makes for an uninspiring package.

The enthusiasm, passion and general love for riding that the contributors of dirt have is evident in their articles, even if their writing might not always be shakesperean in quality (although to their credit some of their contributors are fantastic scribes).

Jones' stuff might be irritating, head frying to read some times but if you just read it in a welsh accent it all makes sense and.....

duffmiver .
he can ride a bike better than any of you

As much as some of you might try down play the importance of that, deride the poster, or generally take the piss it is very relevant. Basically speaking if you're a 2 out of 10 rider, how the hell can you tell whether a bike is a 2/10 or a 10/10? even if you are "an engineer".

In the past when I've seen videos featuring some magazine contributors and I've found it laughable that they review bikes. I can ride it along a fireroad myself thankyouverymuch. At least with Jones you can be sure that he's pushed the bike to limits most average riders won't.

I agree with all that - I wouldn't take him away, I enjoy the enthusiasm and passion. They just need s sub editor to parse some of the random thoughts into sentences that people can read.