 You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I have one of these 100-130mm long travel HT's currently with a 100mm fork. It handles fine with a 100mm stem but when I try to put a 80mm stem on it I can't seem to turn. Feels better when I add a bunch of spacers below the stem to lift it up the bars but still have the same problem - to a degree.
So does 'short and high' only work if i run it with a long fork? (in my case 120-130mm).
The fashion has certainly been to use a shorter stem in conjunction with a longer fork, or a slacker-angled frame. The shortness of the stem adds back some steering sharpness that the longer fork takes away.
By today's standards 80mm isn't really that short.
Why change, if it handles nicely on the 100mm fork with 100mm stem?
no bike can handle nicely with a 100mm stem!
I vote that BS Comment of the week, peachos 🙄
Correct. 130mm minimum.
I can't seem to turn
What do you mean by this? Handling? Binding?
Clubber +1
Surely it depends on the bike, the rider's vital statistics, handlebar width etc.
Just stick with what works for you. If a 100mm stem suits your style then don't worry that it's not "fashionable" at the moment. I still run crud guards which seem to be out of favour - but at least I take comfort in the fact that my arse is dry and I don't have to spend ages cleaning my camelback.
Maybe you did the star nut up too tight.
It's possibly all in your head, to be serious. I'm a little sceptical about the normal thoughts on bike steering.
What we do to turn left is give a little pull on the right bar end, pointing the wheel to the right and tipping us to the inside (left) and we spend the rest of the corner "rescuing" ourselves and balancing the centre of gravity in line with our wheels.
Wide bars help us by keeping our arms out, aiding balance, but stem length - I'm not sure about. I do know that riding a friend's Scott Genius with a 100mm and the fork set to 140mm, you need about a minute's notice to make a turn.
clubber - Member
I vote that BS Comment of the week, peachos
thanks!
it's true though, i've carried out extensive research on my own and other people's bikes and anything with a stem over 60mm feels shite. you just can't pick the front end up or steer accurately. short stems may be a bit of a 'trend', but a bloody good one at that. 40mm on my bike currently.
you just can't pick the front end up or steer accurately
Well, [i]you[/i] can't maybe...
Well, you can't maybe...
😆
well i probably could if i wanted to get used to slow, crap steering and having to put tons of effort in to get it in the air, but why would you do that when a short stem makes things so much better?
ok, for XC racing and climbing i admit a longer stem is better, but for general riding i'll sacrifice a bit of weight over the front wheel for much better, direct handling.
My God. I can't imagine how I've survived 25 years of mountain biking with no stem shorter than 90mm!
And you shouldn't pull the front end up anyway.
Good thoughts about double-checking installation. 100mm down to 80 won't make a massive difference, I wouldn't have thought anyway.
And you shouldn't pull the front end up anyway
looks like my BS quote of the week has just been outdone.
My God. I can't imagine how I've survived 25 years of mountain biking with no stem shorter than 90mm!
have you actually tried riding with a short stem? i have ridden with stems longer than 100mm and as short as 40mm.
Peachos - short stems clearly suit you and your riding so you'd be silly to fit longer stems. Longer stems (90-110mm) suit my bikes and my riding better so I'd be silly to run shorter stems, wouldn't I? Yes I have tried.
looks like my BS quote of the week has just been outdone.
Nope - you've just outdone it yourself. Yanking the bars up is not the way to manual.
I have ridden bikes with shorter stems. All were designed with that stem in mind, rather than just slapping a short stem on a bike designed around a regular one.
I have this at home with Peachos every single day! I showed him a 120mm stem once, he still has nightmares about it.
I have a minus 50mm stem. I'm so rad plumbers fit me to walls.
Seriously though, most of my bikes are designed for regular length stems. I don't think 100mm is 'long', its normal; 140-150mm was 'long'. I have 100mm stems on 4 bikes, they're just fine. I have a 40mm stem on the play bike, its good for playing, but no good for anything else.
Altering stem length makes no difference to the various steering angles and trail that are the parameters that decide the quickness or not of the steering. They don't even change the leverage on the bars by anything significant. ( pythagorus) They do alter the weight distribution and alter the arc thry which the bar end travels.
speed of steering is down to the castor angle and trail.
no bike can handle nicely with a 100mm stem!
mine handle fine with 130mm and one runs 150mm
my mate runs his Yeti asr with 100mm flat and it handles fine and he beats pussy downhill rig boys on it wearing his lycra
peachos - Memberno bike can handle nicely with a 100mm stem!
I nearly reported that post to the Moderators.
my mate runs his Yeti asr with 100mm flat and it handles fine and he beats pussy downhill rig boys on it wearing his lycra
Conclusive proof!
speed of steering is down to the castor angle and trail.
And weight distribution, TJ - why does steering get all light and wandery when on a steep climb if your fork is too long/your weight's too far back?
LOL at Edric and KT Tunstall.
[i]"And you shouldn't pull the front end up anyway."[/i]
Er, so if I'm braking down hill, hanging off the back, and there's a log across the trail, what [i]should[/i] I do ?
Levitate like all the best riders do 😉
Yanking the bars up is not the way to manual
who said anything about manualling? i'm talking quick line changes, hopping over obsticles etc (so general trail riding then). all of which can be done with a long stem granted, but a shorter one makes thing so much better. that's a fact.
LOL, yes, on it's own, for a given frame/setup, a shorter stem will mean less weight forward and so it's easier to yank the front wheel up. Which is great if that's all you do when you ride. Most people do other things too so as usual it's a compromise of what works best for all the riding you do, not just one aspect of it.
A short stem on my bikes would make them horrible - short/upright and wandery.
I have this at home with Peachos every single day! I showed him a 120mm stem once, he still has nightmares about it.
yet your stems lengths are gradually receeding, thus conclusive proof that i am right. that short stems are right. 😀
so you have XC race type bikes then clubber?
More likely to be because frame geometry is changing which is the point made. Short stems are good on frames designed for them. They're usually crap on frames that aren't.
Not particularly peachos - just normal bikes for riding on the trails. The set ups are spot on for me.
Short stems are for weaklings and McRiders.
Fries with that lard boy?
If you eat them now you won't get in my way mincing down the trail.
Depends a bit on how big the log is and how steep the slope is, plus what lies ahead. From what you're saying sounds like you're looking for a way to get the front wheel over and the slope is such that the rest will follow, in which case the simplest thing would be not to worry, let the brakes go temporarily and just ride over it. If you do need some loft on the front then driving with your feet with your arms fully extended.
The misconception in general is that getting the front wheel aloft requires pulling up - whereas it is much better, for multiple reasons, to get your hips well back and use your legs to push with outstretched arms. Then the wheel comes up tangentially, rather then jerking up off the trail. This also keeps your head up and you feet behind, rather than on top of, the pedals.
y point is that there is a much smoother way, and it ain't jerking the bars up and down.i'm talking quick line changes, hopping over obsticles etc
ADH **** OFF you xc mincer.
Txt Spk fail al
Nice guy.
cynic-al - MemberADH **** OFF you xc mincer.
Tsk tsk, forum bullies eh..
BTW you left out 'chubby'.
anotherdeadhero - Member
Short stems are for weaklings and McRiders.Fries with that lard boy?
If you eat them now you won't get in my way mincing down the trail.
haha, me and my 40mm stem would woop your ass both up and down!
Oh dear, it's descended into MBUK c0ck-waving 🙄
clubber - MemberOh dear, it's descended into MBUK c0ck-waving
Which on a basic level is far more amusing than the usual STW brain waving.
Yeah, fair point. Carry on.
My 120mm stem would beat your 40mm stem in a scrap anyday.
FAOD: me 'n' said xc mincer are best of pals, it was a joke, did the self-righteous ever think of that? I am looking at you KT Tunstall.
Yeah, fair point. Carry on.My 120mm stem would beat your 40mm stem in a scrap anyday.
Knowing you your 120mm stem is scrap.
FAOD: me 'n' said xc mincer are best of pals, it was a joke, did the self-righteous ever think of that? I am looking at you KT Tunstall.
WTF is a FAOD?
For Avoidance Of Doubt
FOAD I think KT knew that it was a joke.
Just FOAD like 😉
I know. I felt I could not direct humourous venom against anyone else in case they exploded.
FOAD I didn't. So naive.
I knew you knew. I was just FOAD
Just FAOD clubber, I think that al knew that I knew it was a joke and was doing teh ironing, FAOD I believe it is FAOD not FOAD as you have stated clubber.
HTH.
I went form a 65mm stem to a 90mm stem and my bike is better so there 😆
FOAD sounds better than FAOD just FYI like 😉
haha, me and my 40mm stem would woop your ass both up and down!
Would you like me to bring my 140mm, 100mm, 90mm, 40mm or minus 50mm stem to the beating I will deal you?
al - ****in pleats in my jeans again, WTF IRONING?
[i]"Depends a bit on how big the log is ... then driving with your feet with your arms fully extended ... the wheel comes up tangentially..."[/i]
This all sounds way to complicated to me.
I think I'll stick to just pointing the bike where I want to go and hanging on, with the occasional little front wheel hop over the bigger bumps.
FYI and FWIW I agree that FOAD is better than FAOD.
al - ****in pleats in my jeans again, WTF IRONING?
Goes with your white Birkenstocks.
and my side parting.
Plus someone ironed my LOLCOPTER, its now a FFS CARPET 😡
I don't really like the feel of long stems, the front end feels sluggish and it's harder to lift it if you need to. I guess I don't like the feeling of that much weight over the front end. Tempted to try my 90mm back on now I've got a shorter TT frame, it was awful on my Rockhopper though.
Currently running a 50mm stem with riser bars and 110-140mm forks (usually at 110 but wind out to 140 for any jumping or longer descents). Awesome for jumping but feels a little cramped and hanging over the back wheel for climbing.
FAOD a shorter stem makes it easier to pull up on the bars AND to do that wierd shit that Glemp is advocating.
FWIW I don't advocate riding with your arms straight.
With 100mm stem cornering is great but i feel very stretched and not that responsive to popping over logs/rocks also feel very stretched out.
With 80mm + a few spacers under logs/rocks and good again and arms are a bit bent as they should be but when corner it feels like I cant get the curve started and end up going straight then emergency braking to turn the corner. Tried with the stem up and down the steertube but still cant get it to feel right.
Spent a few hours re-riding the same stretch of trail (about 10 times) with one change at a time but still cant get the setup dialled. The frame is built for 60-80mm stem as per website so Im a bit baffled (or just a cr*p rider)
Well I just put my 90mm on. So far it feels alright for flat and climbs but descending and general "fun" riding doesn't feel as good. So I think I'll put the 50mm back on since I'd rather enjoy the fun bits than have a slightly comfier climb. I may reserve full judgement and give it a go at cannock on Wednesday though.
Long top tube/short stem is probably a winning combination though as you should get the length for climbing with the responsive front end (I would imgaine).
ADH does mince.
though Al, why did you crash der ROFL Copter? hhhmmmm????
no problem with 100mm stems on my xc bike. front end comes up easily over any obstacles or for any drops. sort your technique out before your kit.
And i'll join in teh arsewoopin for all y'all.
I am not going anywhere near my bike until I have measured the stem FAOD.. I have been using this stem for a while.. (and have used it on a previous bike) without having the faintest idea of its length..
no wonder I can't ride for toffee
FWIW I will watch the arse whipping from the bushes but I would rather not join in
FOAD =**** off and die, how can you be so nasty over the length of mans front extension? surely boasting about having a short stumpy one is not a good thing, even if it does mean that your frontage lifts more rapidly 😉