[Closed] Steepest trail in Scotland?

the top and bottom of Glencoe are flat.

Yes there are trails steeper than 40

Great!

trails steeper than 40 can generally be found on similar hills to the ones you'll have found but for the average gradient to be that high they'll straight line top to bottom instead of traversing.. not all that interesting. and I've no idea if any I know have names or are on Strava.

Ok, daft q, but how do you know their gradient? Do you have them logged/mapped on other software?

I don't know the exact gradient. I just ride enough steep trails to know.

What about the path off the Aonach Eagach ridge heading towards the Clachaig Inn. That's insanely steep, i've never ridden down it, i struggled walking down that path. Actually any trail on a Munro are probably the steepest well used trails. Lots of data online for them.

The steepest bit of our local trails is riding down the 5 steps to the pub, 45%. The question makes no sense without understanding the length criteria for the question.

Scottish skiers asked the same question and got to: http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,46205,46205,quote=1

Callum rather than try and put a number on length, I'm fishing for the use of common sense, where locals accept that "X" is a trail and ride the full length and stop at the end afterwards to regroup. Not sure there's any known trails as steep as 40... very interested to know if there are though.

PS Those steps aren't 45%! 😉

Lots of people can't even tell 45 degrees on a protractor never mind on a hill. And of course people are prone to talking it up.

I expect that Clachaig descent fails the criteria of "I mean full trail, with flow, a beginning and an end, and generally accepted as the 'full trail'" on pretty much all counts.

Look up "Angle of Repose" and "slope stability", basically a slope can only be as steep as its constituent material can rest at. Typically for soils and scree this is somewhere between 30 & 45 degrees, find some old mine workings and look at the waste heaps and you'll see that the slopes are somewhere in the 40 - 45 degree range.

The values on winterhighlands are for compacted snow, this depends on the temperatures and wind direction at the time the snow fell - warmer, wetter snow will tend to form steeper slopes especially if the snow is being driven in to the slope, at it's most extreme you get overhanging cornices. Dry powder snow will not form especially steep slopes.

IME skiers tend to exaggerate the steepness of the slopes by quite a bit - I've been on one of the recognised steepest slopes in the world (supposedly the 2nd steepest) and it's 42 degrees over a length of about 300 metres - so when you get someone saying they skied piste X and it was 60 degrees then it's a load of tosh.

So unless you are on a trail that consists mainly of bedrock for its entire length then you aren't going to get anything above 40 degrees. The only area I know of that is bedrock and that angle are the Etive Slabs and if you want to ride a bike down those then you are welcome 😯

Like someone else has said the trail will snake from side to side thus reducing the effective angle so while a trail may descend a slope of 40deg it may have an effective overall angle of just 20deg.

Look up "Angle of Repose" and "slope stability", basically a slope can only be as steep as its constituent material can rest at. Typically for soils and scree this is somewhere between 30 & 45 degrees, find some old mine workings and look at the waste heaps and you'll see that the slopes are somewhere in the 40 - 45 degree range.

Most trails i've ridden on have vegetation roots holding the soil in place so slopes can hold up steeper than the angle of repose would suggest.

Oops, did i fail, oh dear. Well, what about the Craigvinean downhill at Dunkeld. Top section is very steep and bottom sections steep. It has a beginning, an end and if you're awesome, flow.

Not Scotland but we have [url= https://app.strava.com/segments/8683660 ]this[/url] trail which is 43% average incline. It is single track and has lots of turns as well. Its nice 🙂

My steepest local segment is 26% and that's in a wood on the rolling chalk South Downs. Some of the natural stuff cut through the conifer plantations in Wales looks much steeper and I presume there's similar in Scotland.

Ralexd dunkelds nowhere near 40 degrees 🙂 maybe it doesn't exist? Although it should do given that sections of trails I know are steeper. Top 100m of a trail I've built is 36 so not far off that short sectio, but the full line is only 28% so fail.

Not Scotland but we have this trail which is 43 degrees average incline

43% is 23 degrees.

Not Scotland but we have this trail which is 43 degrees average incline.

That's percent [b]not[/b] degrees. 100% = 45 degrees, i.e. 1 in 1

43% = 43 in 100 or roughly 1 in 2.5 which is just a little steeper than Rosedale Chimney Bank at 1 in 3 and [b]that's[/b] a road.

Quarries are good for 40+ chutes but if you want to ride slopes of 45+ head to the coast. I grew up on a cliff and rode plenty short but mega steep trails from my door.
it's why I'm not phased riding steep stuff on ropey bikes.

Is Dunkeld top section only 28%?

Well, i have failed. To steep at the top for me, i'm out.

I grew up on a cliff

the two chutes at the top of Dunkeld are well over, but the short blast through the trees from the start, wee pedal across the felled bit, the long rock gardeny traverse and the rest of the singletrack to the fireroad are all pretty flat.
Bottom half of Dunkeld is flat as ****.

ha ha... That pic is ace! luckily someone thought to build a nice big house at the top of mine 😆

Caderg (Glen Isla)? Have only ever heard of a couple of people riding down that.
Bottom of Gold and Cresta Run at Inners are pretty steep.
Always eye up the path below Cat's Nick on Salisbury Crags...Finlay Mickel skied it in 2010 (was on Youtube).
Some bits of the Golfie are about 38deg (staircase angle).

Mdk is pretty consistantly steep with steeper technical chutes Good fun though .

As is crack cleaner , longer more traverse though but the steeper bits are steeper...

Bottom of Gold and Cresta Run at Inners are pretty steep.

They aren't really, no where near Golfie steep as you also mention

Mdk and crack cleaner? Some chutes at golfie may be steep but the steepest full trail isn't mega steep, steepest I can see is 24%

CS is about 35

if we're all using acronyms here 😉

Oh aye forgot that was one of the 30-35 ones. Doesn't feel as steep as shirleys though but there's a bit of traversing top and bottom there

Acronyms or trail names....but then if yer no local yell no ken.

Its cool, Banchory, looked it up!

At least you have the power of free thought unlike mr obvious troll 😉

I think strava is pretty useless for comparing gradients by value, especially any trails that aren't pretty long. Strava uses pretty coarse grid digital elevation data in the UK, in combination with other factors like error in the data and fluctuation in gradients over the trail I wouldn't put too much trust in it. It would be a lot better for road descents. I keep meaning to compare strava elevation values against a higher res OS dataset but never get round to it.

https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/20965883-Elevation-for-Your-Activity

"the power of free thought"?

😆

NS at walkerburn is pretty steep if you discount the traverse to the top of the descent..

double post

I haven't done it but strava says pumphouse at the golfie is 39.2%? Sorry, PH.

Chickenman - caderg in glen Isla? I can see it on a map, but what else can you tell me? Is it ant good, and any recommended loops taking it in?

Cheers

PH is the STRAVA name for "pumper" NW

Burnwarroch off the south of Dumyat is 50% (171m in 347m), but when I rode it Strava gave it a distance of 1.5km and a gradient of 19% due to all my zigging and zagging to try and stay alive.

https://www.strava.com/segments/3978582

Dan - if you're going to come and straight line this one do let me know so I can come and watch.

This is a less steep bit as it drops into the void:
[img] [/img]

Is that 347m oer the os map or the length of the trail?

Pumphouse, also forgot that! It's a very rideable 39%, though I find it a disappointing straight line.

If PH is what I think it is, I heard the man responsible for it built as he'd just got a 29er.

[img] [/img]

In my experience, anything over 50% (26°) feels way too steep.

Interesting graphic. I was just thinking on the commute - is there a convention whereby roads are given a grade in percentage terms and, shall we say, natural features are given an angle?

So a hillside gets given 11deg whereas the road gets 20% (except in UKIP la-la land where it gets 1 in 5)

I think all we're talking about here is the way strava refers to gradient, where 1:1 is 45 degrees/percent or whatever you want to call it.

Pumphouse is the one that comes off the top of jawbone.

Yep, skills required to ride stuff 35% plus (see what I did there?) are very different and it becomes a case of front wheel control, momentum and confidence.

I think all we're talking about here is the way strava refers to gradient, where 1:1 is 45 degrees/percent or whatever you want to call it.

does strava do it differently? degrees and percent are different, as diagram above.

Burnwarroch off the south of Dumyat is 50% (171m in 347m), but when I rode it Strava gave it a distance of 1.5km and a gradient of 19% due to all my zigging and zagging to try and stay alive.

I think even if you straightlined it strava isn't going to give you the actual gradient in such a short trail. You should be able to test this by creating a mock up straight line.

Always been confused by Pumphouse. Strava says it's steep but it doesn't feel steep. It's fairly short and direct though. I always think bits of other Caberston trails are way steeper.

As bigjim has already highlighted Strava has poor vertical resolution over such short distances due to the altitude data used. Think of it as being very large "pixels" only instead of being different colours they are areas of "average" height.

Agreed Bob, pump house isn't anything special, but is quite short again so probably just suffers from the same effect that scotroutes mentions

Always been confused by Pumphouse. Strava says it's steep but it doesn't feel steep. It's fairly short and direct though. I always think [b]bits[/b] of other Caberston trails are way steeper.

on the road Strava is a decent wee tool for judging the steepest climbs and can be used to find/compare hills whether for training or a challenge. Off road it'll give a decent idea of what you're in for in certain areas but there's no need to get all number autistic about it.

Do yourselves a favour and ride BMX at some point in your lives. For a BMXer there's either kickers or flat, Vert, tranny or invert.. no none ever talks about angles except to describe how far they've spun.

I did this awesumz 50ft double on my BMX once!

if only son, if only... 😥

I did this awesumz 50ft double on my BMX once!

strava or it didn't happen

I did Strava it but it makes it look easier than it actually is

lolz

I already explained this to you in my second post

I didn't bother my arse reading your second post. Or anything beyond that line in your last one.

mtbel - Member

Why care so much about what Strava says? I know what steep is, I don't particularly need any kind of measurement device to know I've ridden down steep trails. and certainly don't need to know the average steepness of any one trail.

What are you doing on this thread then? That's exactly what I'm looking to use as the basis of THIS discussion. Not argue of the merits of such. Just wondering what trails people ride that STRAVA says are steep. I guess you can't handle that.

Without some objective measurement (e.g slope angle, Strava gradient) it all comes down to perception. Unless, of course, someone reckons they've descended [i]every[/i] trail in Scotland and is therefore in a position to be the ultimate arbiter.

it all comes down to perception

As already mentioned, people (myself included) are piss poor at judging angles. Heck, some on this thread clearly don't even know what an angle is.

A useful yardstick would be the angle of the slab at Laggan. Not that steep but because it is short and at a consistent angle it will give a good idea of what an angle really looks / feels like.

I have cycled down my step into the back yard, its a foot high and slightly less than a foot wide so at least 45 degrees 🙂

Ignore last post I dont live in Scotland, so claim is null and void

Whats pumphouse?

Wee trail at innerleithen

Ok Dan. I do apologise. it must be Pump house.
glad that's sorted.

Yay! I've ridden the steepest trail in Scotland 😀

except it isn't! 🙁

Wheres it go? Theres a good chance ive ridden it and have no idea that its called pump house.

Edit: Found it. Near Jawbone. I see.

Headdown Jawbone, turn off to the right around a third of the way down. It's not really worth doing, over and done with very quickly

Portydave: The only info I have about Caderg are posts from the late Messiah (used to post on STW). He described Caderg as almost unridable (+ I gather he was a pretty competent rider).
The route incorporating this I fancy this summer, is to start at Fergus in Glen Isla, ride up via Craig-lair, Bawhelps (don't need any help with mine, thanks!) to Mayar and a decent of the Kilbo Path to Clova. Glen Clova, Bachnagairn, Broad Cairn, Carn Bannoch to ride the awesome Carn an t-Sagairt Mor track down to Loch Callater. Up the landytrack to Cairn of Claise to reach the path that circles the boggy plateau via Druim Mor to the top of Caderg.
A shorter variant would leave out Mayar, do Finalty Hill, Tom Buidhe then Cairn of Claise.
I can see myself getting to the edge of Caderg, turning tail and riding down Monega Hill instead!
All the blank bits on the map in this part of the 'Gorms have tracks (sometimes tiny); all you need are good visibility and a dry spell to ride up there.

Similar ilk perhaps to the Dumyat route is the descent of West Lomond Hill down to the Bonnet Stane; via the straightline path used by fell runners, not the one further NE traversing the fence. Don't know if it's been ridden; looks well steep!

The average angle on that will be quite low.

Surely a descent off dumgoyne could be made pretty vertical

Similar ilk perhaps to the Dumyat route is the descent of West Lomond Hill down to the Bonnet Stane; via the straightline path used by fell runners, not the one further NE traversing the fence. Don't know if it's been ridden; looks well steep!

I've climbed up the route you mean, directly up from the bunnet stone up the face of west lomond. I'm not sure of the gradient but I'd say it's unridable downwards...not just out of steepness but because it goes straight down, no traversing at all, and there would be no traction at all with braking being completely ineffective!

In a similar part of the world, there is actually a very steep trail on the south facing slope of benarty hill. Was dug out by some local rad downhillers about 4-5 years back and is very overgrown as of the last time I was up there....but it exists, and is certainly steep for the vast majority of its length.

Cheers Chickenman, I'll check it out. I knew Brian (or messiah) and he was indeed handy so the challenge has been laid down!

Those big slag heaps out near newbridge ish area at Edinburgh have some pretty steep sides to them.

[img] [/img]