[Closed] Steel or aluminium cyclocross bike?

Pros:
Steel frame. I have a Soul and really like
steel frames

I'm afraid that's a silly statement as is the one about aluminium. steel frames can be massively different and especially cheap steel is often not springy at all.

9 speed is no better in mud.

Choose the one you like riding best, not the one that mag stereotypes say.

I presume you mean the cheaper CDF rather than the Croix de Fer?

I have a CDF, a few months old. Not had any problems with it at all, great bike. Ive only ever ridden MTBs so bought as a commuter instead of a road bike. The tyres that come on it (Conti cyclocross) are fairly decent, only had 1 puncture (3 months of 15 miles/day 5 days a week), but bought some Gatorskins recently for lower rolling resistance.
Some reviews say its a bit flexy - it is slightly flexy sideways when you hold the brakes and push down with full body weight on one foot (and I'm far from lightweight!), but I haven't noticed it when riding (although I cannot compare to an alu road/cross bike). Ridden it fully loaded with panniers too, feels fairly stable.
The steel really takes away the harshness of the roads as well, saves the wrists!
Hope some of this helps, I can't compare to your other suggested bike, but I'm glad I chose the CDF! If you have any questions about it, ask away!

Yes, it's the CDF that I am considering. Let's say if the Croix de Fer is £1000, I would have gone for it straight away and wouldn't be asking questions here.

I think I am swinging towards the CDF but it's difficult to get a test ride as these are not usually in stock.

The designer of the Pinacle Arkose used to work in Genesis as well so apparently the ride is comparable to steel.

I think the CDF has decent-ish steel (Reynolds 525) so should be a fairly good comparison with a soul. I wish the Cotic X is under £1000 as well.

Not got one but if I was back in the market for a disc cross I'm pretty sure I'd be getting my local Halfords to get a Boardman Team CX Cyclocross in.
They are under a grand for the Cycle scheme, look the part and get great reviews.

Unfortunately, Halfords is not on the cylcescheme's list. Otherwise, I would have considered the Boardman Team CX.

Don't worry, whatever you choose won't change your riding or boredom threshold. Any one will do. HTH 🙂

fred williams in wolverhampton sell boardman bikes and do cyclescheme. I'm thinking about that route myself

Scandium

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Alu for me. £300 ebay and a few selective second hand upgrades.
Just the job for a mix of racing and 3-4 hour on/off/singletrack rides. 🙂
put some CX50 brakes on it last week, good improvement on the cheapies shown here.

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikes_and_stuff/8170625391/ ]cross[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikes_and_stuff/ ]bmclynskey1[/url], on Flickr[/img]

If your looking at the Pinnacle then i'm guessing you've been looking at Evans cycles, at the moment they also have this which imo is a steal

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http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/caadx-6-tiagra-compact-2012-cyclocross-bike-ec031484

nicholas_yiu - Member

Not as good to ride due to aluminium frame

what does this mean? do all aluminium frames ride badly?

I must have got the wrong message across.

I had plenty of aluminium MTB frames in my time that are great to ride.

Just that I happened to have a Soul as well and in my opinion, it would be better for commuting than aluminium.

I am only assuming this is the same with cyclocross and I am unsure if I am correct or which is why I am asking this question on here.

If I am to race cyclocross, I would probably have gone for an aluminium frame with rim brakes.

why is aluminium not good for commuting?

It's difficult to advise on what is essentially personal preference. The difference between alu & steel is well known, so what is your choice - the weight saving of alu or the "feel" (and in most cases aesthetics) of steel?
Personally, i'd go for the weight saving and get alu (though not the Pinnacle, cos it's ugly 😉 )

For me tyre width can go along way towards the comfort/ harshness.

On 23c tyres on a road bike you can feel an awful lot of the road beneath you. Regardless of the make of the frame.
When you move up to 38c the cushioning effect is far, far greater.

I have never ridden a road bike that I've felt has been unrideable due to harshness of ride.

Just choose the one that fits and the one that gets you a little excited like only a new bike that you really, really want can rather than the one that you 'should' buy, and I'm sure you'll be fine.

The difference between alu & steel is oft repeated folklore

i've ridden steel frames that have the harsh and stiff character so commonly attributed to aluminium bikes, and aluminium bikes that a skippy and slightly compliant, just like steel bikes are supposed to be

frame designers are doing interesting things to both materials now to dial in certain characteristics so saying that a certain frame material does a certain thing, or is bad, is mostly pish

Frame design has more effect on how it rides than simple alu or steel debate.
Plus the obvious tyre choice ... 23mm at 120psi against 35mm at 50psi .. Lots more important factors than simple steel or alu.

That's the kind of comment I would like to hear.

I completely understand what you said, when I had my On-one 456, it didn't feel that much more comfortable than an aluminium frame.

However, when I bought the Soul, it's more like riding a FS with very short travel and I am happy to be out all day on it.

When I had my Roadbike, it was an aluminium frame with 23C tyres at 110PSI. My worry is a cyclocross is going to feel similar and a steel frame is going to make it bore bearable.

From the comments above seems like tyres are going to make the difference and I might well be wrong with the steel vs aluminium idea seeing the frame designer of the Pinnacle said they have taken comfort into account by having a skinny chainstay.

I think I will have to try both before I can make my mind up. Luckily, I just went into Evans and they agreed to get both of the bikes in when I give them the vouchers. I think that's the only way for me to make a proper decision.

[i]The difference between alu & steel is oft repeated folklore[/i]

🙄
if that Genisis frame is not heavy than the Pinnacle one, I'll eat my Handjob.

Ps. just ordered a CAAD X from my LBS 😀

Unless your commute is hundreds of miles, I dont think the stiff nature of an alu frame would really matter. Get an alu one. The CAAD

I love the look of the Pinnacle - great spec too.

If Surly don't pull their finger out and make a Cross Check disc, I might just go for the alloy option and buy one.
That Pinnacle frame has had some very good reviews.
Would love to know who makes them - could even be the same people that make the Cannondale?

Don't fancy the CDF - rear caliper in the wrong place and don't think it's great value.

That cannondale is a blimmin bargain and should be at the very top.of your list. The frame will almost certainly ride more nicely than the cheap steel frame of the cdf.

I might be missing something but what is special about the CAAD?

Saying that, I am not keen on a bike with rim brakes for off road commuting.

I might be missing something but what is special about the [b]CAAD[/b]?

Thats whats special about it.

Ive never ridden one myself though, I just follow suit as to what everyone else on the internet says.

When you say "off road" commuting, do you just mean bimbling along footpaths and tow paths and the like? If so, rim brakes'll be fine.

Pinnacle said they have taken
comfort into account by having a skinny
chainstay.

Yes, you'd think so, wouldn't you. Thing is that's largely folklore too... splay in the frame/fork (eg wheels actually getting sprung away from eachother) actually accounts for a large portion of the spring in frames and iirc from a uni project on it, top tubes were most influential there... So really, have a look at how big the top tubes are.

I have just replaced my Ribble winter bike. I had planned on buying a Genesis Equilbrium but changed my mind after the date got pushed back again. A colleague suggested a good aluminium frame wouldn't be too bad (he changed from an Equilibrium to a Synapse and thought the Synapse was at least as comfy and lighter). I opted for a CAAD X 105. I have put road tyres on and the bike is mega smooth and comfy. More so than my Genesis Day One singlespeed (520 steel) with road tyres. Ergo I think the CAADX 105 will ultimately be a comfier lighter bike. Oh and the Ribble was shit - can't believe I put up with it for long.

Conclusion - buy a good alloy frame....

[u][b]way[/b][/u] more important than the material (or tubing dimensions) is whether a road / CX bike actually fits you and the position you have on it, and then the tyre width/pressure

@studuck. Do you run your Day One with guards. If so, what size tyres can you go up to please? Hoping I can get 32's in?

When I say offroad, I mean bridleway with muddy bits in between, the bloke in the LBS also said rims will probably last about 1 year on the route that I plan to take. That is not what I want on a commuter bike. In fact, if budget allowed, I would have gone for hub gears as well.

“I’m a steel fan as you know, but a good aluminium frame can be very close and the Arkose has slim stays, thin walls and an all-carbon fork so comfort levels are good. It’s not a race bike, but it’s closer to being raceable with an aluminium frame. We can also spec a better value for money part list on aluminium frames now.”

That's what the frame designer said.

Was what you did in Uni computer based or physical or both? I did something similar but on car chassis which I thought was quite fun.

Off topic but I am a great unbeliever of FEA without physical backup as you probably know how wrong they can go. Some of the analysis the equipment "engineers" at work did with FEA is scary. I asked how he learnt FEA and cannot believe his answer was Google. I still worry every time I walk past that piece of equipment he designed and built.

@boblo - I had up to 28s in with full length guards. Probably will struggle to go any bigger to be honest. Something like a Surly Cross Check will give waaaay more clearance (and is available as a single speed this year). Plenty of space in the caadx to go big too....

@studuck: another question for you - what size CAAD X did you get? And how tall are you?
I only had a quick sit on the bike, but it seemed like the 54cm was a good fit. But I'm coming from a 58cm roadbike, so having doubts!

Sorry for the hijack.it is kinda relevant .... Day One Alfine 8 - new owner here. Deciding what to do for winter.... 28mm Marathons with guards then changing to 35mm Marathon Winters without guards for the 2 days of snow/ice we get here. Did think off Contis Top Contact Winter 2 to cover both but I think the two sorts (for the same money as the (Contis) is a more flexible approach.

I was hoping I could get a 32mm in for a bit more bounce on the local bridle path.

@DezB - I am 5'7" and went for 51cm (which isn't as small as it sounds. My Day One single speed is a 54cm and is a perfect fit. I ride a small Giant SCRC2 and my Ribble was a 54cm - but was definitely a bit on the big side. I may even shorten the stem on the caadx by 15-20mm

Cool, thanks for that. Seems to be a case of going for a smaller size with these particular bicycles 🙂

Was what you did in Uni computer based or
physical or both?

both. FEA and a strain gauged frame. what it showed was that the rear triangle flexed as you'd expect but being very well braced, produced little verticle movement in comparison to that from frame splay.

empirically you'll also see that road bikes targeted at comfort (Spesh Roubaix is a good example) have noticeably profiled top tubes particularly around the top tube/seat tube area.

I've always wondered if you could design a fork that could flex significantly forward (eg help smooth out bumps) but not backwards (so it'd still brake OK) or side to side/twist (so it'd ride nicely)

My two penn'orth. The design, geometry and manufacturing quality of the frame is way, way more important than the material in terms of how the bike feels. I've had various steel and alu frames over the years. Currently have a Rock Lobster (google them) cross bike and it is one of the best frames I've had full stop and is springy and responsive like the best steel frames are purported to be. That said I've also got a Cannondale CAAD8 roadbike, which is superb. Cannondale were the first bike company, way way back in the day, to successfully make performance bikes out of aluminium. They have been refining their designs and techniques for nearly 30 years and their alu frames were winning the Tour de France a decade or so ago. Pinnacle and Genesis on the other hand are the in-house brands of Evans and Madison (UK based bike kit importer incl Shimano - also own Saracen and Ridgeback) respectively. So the choice is between two companies that sell bike kit for a living and also produce a few themselves because they can make a few quid out of it and win on margins and a company that (like or hate them) have been relentlessly making the best aluminium bikes that money can buy (you won't find many people contesting the fact that the CAAD10 is the finest alu race bike currently available, and indeed one of the finest race bikes full stop) for the best part of 30 years. No disrespect to Pinnacle and Genesis, there is nothing wrong with their bikes per se, but nobody would pretend that they're in the same ballpark as Cannondale. Given that everything else is upgradable, the most important factor in any purchase is the frame. For me the CAADX at the price Evans are selling it at is a no-brainer. And if I wasn't already on the edge of the equation that states that the ideal number of bikes to own is one less than the number it would take for your missus to throw you out, I'd probably buy it myself.

I rode a Croix De Fer and a Boardman back-to-back.

The Croix was comfy, but it was also dead. I didn't like it. It felt like hard work keeping it at a nice speed too.
I like steel hardtails, but this didn't give the same ride quality that I like in my hardtails (Kona, Bontrager and Independent Fabrication). By all accounts, the Surly Cross Check is more like a lively, yet comfy steel frame than the CDF, but I haven't ridden one.

The Boardman was much more what I was hoping for - Not as comfy but also not dead. It was really fun offroad actually. I didn't like SRAM, but that's personal preference probably.

I haven't bought a bike yet, but I've definitely ruled out the CDF. I don't see the point (this is for me) in buying a road-going bike which is heavier than my mountain bike with slicks on.

How you found the CDF pretty much describes how I found a Charge Duster a few years back. Wasn't even comfy. Nothing like my Handjob.
But a lot of people have Dusters and rave about them, so as I said previously, it's a personal thing.

Who won the T de F on a Cannondale Funkrodent?

I might have guessed that someone with the name Colnagokid would pull me on that 😉
Fair enough though, perhaps got a tad carried away. As clarification then, Cannondale bikes have not won a TdeF, but have won numerous stages, including a number of consecutive ones for Cipollini in the late 90s. Their bikes have, however, won 5 Giro d'Italias. Everything else I said stands.
With regard to the Surly Cross-Check. Had one for three years (until it got nicked). Great bike, if a tad heavy, but lovely to ride, fast and comfortable and totally bombproof