reading some of the 'which bike' threads and it seems that most steel hardtails are now being run with 120-140mm forks.
Why ?
I have a RL853 with 100mm Reba's on it (and a 5 for bigger days)and it has always seemed like a good combination, and I rarely feel underbiked (presubably 'cos I have the full susser for big days out/trail centres).
Often wonder whether updating to something like a Soul with 120ish travel would make much of a difference (apart from maybe make the 5 a bit redundant..)
100mm HT is fine for 95% of UK riding, IMO.
infact, it's fine for 95% of alpine riding.
they seem to be ideal for sat down all the time type riders who can't afford a decent full sus bike.
a decent aluminium frame with a 100mm fork will be faster.
Mine has only got 80mm - I'm doomed...
F90RLs on Decade Virsa here with no problems.
"reading some of the 'which bike' threads and it seems that most steel hardtails are now being run with 120-140mm forks.
Why ?"
Because people are told to aspire to more travel, afterall it means they are more Gnarrr and a better rider right?
100mm is fine, and in a year or two when marketing has gone full circle and the rad riders have all bought super long travel bikes the marketeres will then suggest that 100mm is the new 160mm travel and people will follow like sheep because afterall riding with less travel means you are more Gnarrr... see where I'm going?
Our guide in the alps this year was riding a steel hardtail with 100mm. He rode down everything. He was one of the best riders I've ever seen though.
i run 100mm on my inbred. the front end gets thrown around a hell of a lot. but, my previous 100mm forks were the original Z1 bombers. i find myself wanting 120mm, just so they ride like the marzocchis...
The first time I rode a quality 100mm fork I was amazed how bottomless it felt.
I ride a 130mm Recon right now but might go down to 120mm which might suit my Genesis frame better. I used to ride around a 456 with 150mm coil forks. probably wont go back to that now
seems like there are quite a few of us 'shorties' out there 🙂
I reckon I would quite enjoy more travel sometimes, but it would be too like the FS and it might be a bit less lively than currrent setup on local trails
I rode Gibbet Hill on a 100mm hardtail the other day....didn't die or anything! Would probably have been faster and more comfortable on full suspension but I like the simplicity of hardtails.
Gibbet Hill is where the Whyte bikes video that is currently on Bike Magic was filmed and short travel forks were fine.
Got 100 mm on my Kona and I prefer it to the 120mm on the other hardtail at the moment. Ride a lot of singletrack and rocky stuff and it flies. Then again, used to do the same riding 15 odd years ago on fully rigid bikes and had the same amount of fun, so hey ho.
Same here GG, rode more difficult stuff back in the 90s when I was a brave (stupid?) teenager on a fully divine GT Avalanche!
*double post*
Still rockin 80mm on the race bike, though I've had 140mm on the DMR for 5 years. That still rocks as well.
reading some of the 'which bike' threads and it seems that most steel hardtails are now being run with 120-140mm forks
Yeah,so why hasn't it brought the price of 100mm forks down ?
Me too deviant, used to ride some daft stuff I wouldn't even consider now, all on a rigid steel rockhopper. A lot of people worry too much about their kit don't they. Me and my mates used to have an old bmx we'd use as a spare bike, in case one of our mountain bikes was broke, just so we could all go out riding together. Good times 8)
Just got in from a 70 mile 6 hour ride round the N Downs on a 0mm travel steel hardtail. It's the future.
GB
i have a 100mm tora on my duster.once it is worn out,am planning on going fully rigid (trying to relive my youth/get my fitness back 🙂 truth is,i don't need suspension for the riding i do (the same terrain as i used to do on a fully rigid ht marin eldridge grade 1992 😉
I'm quite happy with 100mm of travel on my Boardman. I have toyed with the idea of a Carbon 456 frame as it'll be lighter and a bit slacker and I could run the Rebas at 120mm but the extra travel is the least important of the differences.
The only bike I can ever recall doing jumps on was a Puch folding shopper.
I use all my 140 coz I'm super gnarr
I use to have an inbred with 100mm forks and loved it, currently got a 456 with 140mm while I like it I much preferred the inbred.
I run my cotic bfe at about 100 - 110mm, perfect for everything. Any more travel just doesnt make sense, unless all you're riding is downhill courses.
they seem to be ideal for sat down all the time type riders who can't afford a decent full sus bike.
A troll surely?
Naaa, 100mm hardtails are ace, so are hardtails with 120mm forks, 140mm forks and 160mm forks!
And to re-dress the troll, 'decent' full sus's are for riders who dont ride often enough to develop a backside upto the riggours of a few hours in the saddle :p
Nope! just an observation.
I don't sit down much at all when I ride
Nope! just an observation.
I don't sit down much at all when I ride
Nor do I - I got a dropper post to put the saddle up, not down! And I much prefer my Soul with 140mm rather than the 100mm forks it had previously. Just ride what you like!
they seem to be ideal for sat down all the time type riders who can't afford a decent full sus bike.
I'm sorry but that comment is complete bullshit. I ride a steel hardtail because I choose to, I've ridden expensive FS in the past and could do now if I chose to do so.
Had 100 mm fox rl's on my old inbred.
Fitted to my new chameleon now, went out today and did all the stuff I usually do on my full susser.
Quicker too 😀
doubt there'd be a dropper post in existence with enough drop to achieve slammed to full height on my bike.Nor do I - I got a dropper post to put the saddle up, not down!
😉I'm sorry but that comment [s]is complete bullshit[/s] [b]hurt my feelings[/b]. I ride a steel hardtail because I choose to, I've ridden expensive FS in the past and could do now if I chose to do so.. [b]so ner ne ne ne ner[/b]
Does it have long forks? and do you sit down a bit too much? 😛
I broke my rigid, my 63mm ht, the 80mm ht, the 100mm, etc etc... currently seeing if the 150mm hardtail can take it. Your riding and your trails will decide which is right for you.
TBH it's as much about the geometry as the travel, for me... I'd really like a slack, light, 100mm hardtail. Stick a set of maxle rebas in it, sorted. But instead I end up using more fork height to add slackness.
456 lives at 120mm almost all the time though, and works pretty nicely. And my 120-150mm uturn Revs barely weigh more than a set of Rebas anyway.
It's all relative.
I like my Revelations and PA, it feels sturdy and supple all at once. It can be nice having a fair bit of bike between me and the obstacle/ground/impending doom ahead.
Ride what you like, if it happens to be trendy or common so what? I'd much rather see a happy rider pushing it on a Carrera than a grumpy rider pootling on a 5-spot.
ThatNorthwind - Member
TBH it's as much about the geometry as the travel, ...... I end up using more fork height to add slackness.
Slack geometry is probably good for downhilling, i dont mind having steepish geometry for everything else though. After riding a road bike and a bmx, a cotic with 110mm forks feels quite slack anyway. Long travel forks on a hardtail seems to go against all the good bits of a hardtail.
i used to run my P7 at 80mm, was forced to strip the forks due to a leak, decided to take the spacers out and run them at the full 130mm, and, tbh, it just feels better.
i didnt expect that to happen though.
Using a set of 120 DT Swiss for extra slackness on my Ridgeline and it seems shweet; the half way lock down on the fork tightens everything up for the climbs rather nicely too..
TBH it's as much about the geometry as the travel, for me... I'd really like a slack, light, 100mm hardtail.
for a few years I had 2 hardtails, both had almost identical geometry and both had the same 100mm fork but one had a 70deg HA while the other had 63deg. rode exactly the same stuff just as fast on each but the 63deg one wasn't as versatile as it was ropey as **** hitting a proper steep DJ (slower) lips.
DT will know what I'm on about, Druidh won't have a ****ing clue 😉
try 100 & 120 before you lambast either.
most hardtails designed to take a 120mm fork feel more capable with one fitted, frames designed for 100mm dont feel as good with 120mm fitted. funny that.
personally, I feel more confident on 120mm when going downhill. and I feel faster uphill on 100mm.
horses for courses.
one thing im certain of, the marketing conspiracy will not happen. going back to 80mm or less will never happen (or ill eat my Reba Maxle).
Just ride!
Own both:-
Inbred with 440mm Carbon (100mm sus corrected) fork + 80mm stem
Inbred with 130mm travel menjas + 60mm stem
both 18" 26er frames, and the slacker 130mm forked version feels more responsive and is better handling on twisty singletrack, which is the opposite of what I thought would happen in all honesty
reading some of the 'which bike' threads and it seems that most steel hardtails are now being run with 120-140mm forks.Why ?
Fashion?
I'm due to take ownership of a steel framed bike with 150mm forks soon. I plan on using it for general hooning about on - a bit of DH, plenty of xc and maybe a spot of jumping. Might even sit down if it comes with a seat. 😆
It's supposed to be fairly slack, so might not be ideal for all it's intended uses, but i'm sure i'll manage.
Fashion?
Nahhh, definately function (IMO)
The difference between my sanderson and my 456 is the line choices, the sanderson makes anythign but the smoothest lines a challenge, not unrideable, but it does like the well ridden/smooth line. The 456 will happily take a more agressive line. Partialy that's geometry, partialy travel.
peanutmeerkat -
I use to have an inbred with 100mm forks and loved it, currently got a 456 with 140mm while I like it I much preferred the inbred.
Upgraded from an Inbred with 100mm to a 456 and running u-turn pikes 95-140. Run it at 95mm 95% of the time!
steel hardtails - is 100mm travel soo last year ??
yes.
and it's the future.
someday soon, we'll realise that we don't like long* forks, we like the slacker** head angle that fitting longer forks creates.
and then we'll realise that we have nice slack head angles, and sensible 100mm forks (lighter, stiffer, cheaper).
it'll be ace.
my ragley blue pig has 140mm pikes, but they're silly soft and divey if i set them up soft enough so that i use all the travel. so i pump them up a bit, i only use about 100mm of travel, and they feel great.
(*for sake of argument, long is more than 110mm)
(**and slack is 69 or less)
Soft long travel forks. Shite on a hardtail. If you want to do a jump or bunnyhop over something you have to wade through loads of travel to do so. Fairly stiff short travel forks are where its at, everyone'll be using them soon.
someday soon, we'll realise that we don't like long* forks, we like the slacker** head angle that fitting longer forks creates.
Isn't that what the 456 Summer Season does - gives a slack head angle when running shorter forks.
Davidtaylforth's ongoing obsession with pigeonholing specific bikes and insisting they have the One Correct Fork Size fitted...
I'm riding a Pha5e with Fox 140's on and I'm loving it. Reduced to 100's and it feels really wrong, all the frame obviously...
A well set up 100 fork can handle anything a 140 can though, it's all about fork set up I reckon.
Stay safe everyone!
avdave2 - Member
Isn't that what the 456 Summer Season does - gives a slack head angle when running shorter forks.
yes, why more bike-designers haven't done it is a total mystery.
obviously, not everyone wants a slack frame - but those of us that do have had to make-do by fitting silly long, largely innappropriate forks.
my next bike may well be a kona honzo, which has a slacker than average head angle, and i'm thinking that i can shorten the fork, which will steepen the seat angle and lower the bottom bracket. maybe we're close to seeing fork-shortening as an 'upgrade' - this idea amuses me.
Its why i bought a Kona Caldera frame....not niche or glamourous but lightweight aluminium and a 68.5 degree head angle on a 100mm fork...only £150 from CRC too...superb.
since whe was 69deg considered slack?
well, for the sake of simple conversation...
(and it is - compared to the 70/71 that most hardtails still feature)
Most hardtails are still being made with 70/71 degree head angles so anything that kicks the front wheel out a few more degrees is welcome....especially as it means long squishy forks dont have to be fitted to achieve the same thing....its all relative anyway, an old Saracen i once owned had a 73 degree head angle, a lot of cross country specific mountain bikes still do.
the Rebas on my steel hardtail are reduced to 100mm. I might try them at 80 some time soon, it's closer to what Mr Dekerf intended, and I'm interested to see how much difference it makes to handling and what I feel like riding on it.
I'm a massive jess/incredibly gnarly but incredibly smooth* so I should be fine with 80mm.
*delete as you feel appropriate.
Currently running a 120mm Reba on my 29er Inbred. It does feel like an awful lot of suspension. It ploughs its way through just about anything that my Ventana FS would have done.
I found that 120mm travel on the 26" wheel Inbred I had before was just about perfect for that bike, for me.
I find hardtails with anything much over 100mm very odd to ride, there's nothing at the back to balance it out. My jump bike is 100mm the other two mtbs with longer forks have rear suspension...
I have to say I agree with GW, it seems that long travel hardtails are popular with riders who sit down too much...
I have to say I agree with GW, it seems that long travel hardtails are popular with riders who sit down too much...
Are you talking riding style, or lifestyle?
Run 200mm on my DH bike, 130mm on the geared 456, 100mm on the SS 456
Horses for courses
Most hardtails are still being made with 70/71 degree head angles so anything that kicks the front wheel out a few more degrees is welcome..
Isn't this what the Charge Blender does, and it got a bit of a slating in the mag? Might be thinking of the wrong model.
so 70deg is steep and 69deg is slack? had no idea the transition from steep to slack was so acute 🙄
You're being a pedant with the example of 1 degree.
....my previous Trek had a 71 degree head angle, my current Kona has a 68.5 degree head angle, the 2.5 degree difference is noticeable and i think its fair to consider the Kona to be a slack hardtail.
even 0.5 deg is noticable but my most ridden hardtail has a 69deg head angle and is not slack in the slightest and an extra 0.5deg would not suddenly make it slack.
if you think 68.5deg is slack you need to ride a lot more bikes.
GW - Memberso 70deg is steep and 69deg is slack? had no idea the transition from steep to slack was so acute
like i said, for sake of an easy conversation...
don't like the number 69? - pretend i said 68/67/65/64/63 (pick the one you like)
but i think my waffling is valid, one day soon (maybe it's already happened and i didn't notice), you'll be able to buy frames/bikes, which have slackish headangles, with cheap short* forks.
(*100mm ish)
even 0.5 deg is noticable but my most ridden hardtail has a 69deg head angle and is not slack in the slightest and an extra 0.5deg would not suddenly make it slack.
It's not going to be slack with your 100mm fork - whack a 160 on there, and see how that rides.
Manufacturers stated head angle means nothing without taking into consideration the fork length you're running.
[url= http://cotic.co.uk/geek/ ]http://cotic.co.uk/geek/[/url]
er.. read back through my previous posts on this thread, that 100mm 63deg HA hardtail I mentioned? the frame was bought off the shelf back in 1999/2000.
(it's still going strong but barely used anymore, as my Ex has it now)
adstick - MemberI have to say I agree with GW, it seems that long travel hardtails are popular with riders who sit down too much...
Can't make any sense of this comment, long travel hardtails are just as awful when ridden sat down as short travel hardtails.
Davidtaylforth's ongoing obsession with pigeonholing specific bikes and insisting they have the One Correct Fork Size fitted...
I thought most people knew the only correct fork length was the one I/they use.
😀
Went out yesterday on My Genesis Altitude with 120mm on the forks and [i]shock horror [/i] a longer stem.
Not so long ago I had a 150mm FS which wore me out just for the advantage of getting some extra confidence on the tiny amount of rough stuff I encountered. For my riding and my local area, this bike is ACE! Turns really well and quickly , the front picks up easily, it climbs nicely and I can ride it for much much longer.
The short travel revolution 🙂