[Closed] Steel frames .... Wrong material for contemplating a racier build?

I know it's not entirely what you mean, but Genesis have seen fit to make a steel, pro standard road race bike so it's not entirely improbable. [img] [/img]

Lots of folk racing things like Salsa El Mariachis so you shouldn't necessarily rule out steel. However, those cheap chinese carbon frames.....

I'd happily race on a steel bike if it was less than 22lbs ish.

Good question!! I know that Si at Cotic puts a lot of faith (and research) into the merits of steel

22lbs ish is more than possible I guess. Hmm.

[img] [/img]Quite easily

tthew - Member

I know it's not entirely what you mean, but Genesis have seen fit to make a steel, pro standard road race bike so it's not entirely improbable.

Is there not weight minimums for road though?

Thing is, even if you put in a load of effort/money, or accept a load of limitations to get it super light, it'll still be less super light than it would be if it wasn't made out of steel. And you'll be able to get a nice carbon or alu frame for less than a top end steel one too.

I race on what I have, because I'm shit at racing, but if you want to build a race bike it's not the obvious choice.

@ David - Stop it with gratuitous shots of that lovely Curtis. Now go and sit in the corner and [s]look at that lovely bike [/s] think what you've done.

Is there not weight minimums for road though?

There is but it's 6.8kg and the Genesis is definitely above that by about two thirds of a kilo, maybe a little less.

I raced my Chas Roberts DB with XT Pace RC39s and Hope mini monos for a couple of seasons. The XT-equipped 2x10 Stumpjumper Comp carbon 29er that I ride now is only a couple of pounds lighter: 22 vs 24 lbs.
I'd happily race steel again, probably have to be a 29er tho' 🙂

My Cotic Soul wears Fox 32 forks, Hope / DT XR400 wheels, XTR / XT and nice finishing kit - it comes in at 24lbs. Weight drops below 20lb with rigid carbon forks and singlespeed.

A Cotic Solaris with a similar build would probably add up to 25lbs.

you would need to custom build really to get away from cen testing regs which require overbuilding of mass produced steel frames

What's the weight difference between similarly priced Steel, Alu and Carbon XC frames? Pulling numbers out of my ass, GBP200 might get you a 1.5 kg carbon frame, 1.8 kg alu frame or a 2.3 kg steel frame.

Is that difference going to make or break you? Mean you have more fun? Like the look of your bike and go riding more often?

Of course you could make up the difference by spending silly money on ever more ultralight components but for the same money you'll never make up that hypothetical 0.8 kg difference.

You might have more fun on it though 🙂

In simple terms your throwing away 1kg from the start, that will be 10% on everyone else roughly compared to carbon.

Something like the SC highball comes in at 1.08kg and the On One/Planet X Dirty harry (not really a race bike or is it??) comes in an 1.15kg at the budget end of the market. Cotic can get the Solaris down to 2.22kg.

Will you notice? who knows depends on you and how you ride.

I don't know of that many round our way racing on Alu bikes these days, most are on carbon and happy. If you are planning on a new bike take a look at some of the complete deals around - especially end of line stuff.

But then again I'll be off out on my 140mm full sus as thats what I like riding.

Hey Mark...you know my love for quality steel frames but I have to confess to just finishing building a plastic bike. The frame in question is a Velocite Flux and whilst not being super light the ride is very very good. The handling and balance is superb...it rolls very nicely and it is most comfortable. Then there is the speed and hill climbing.
I have to say that after years of being a steel man or ti man...I think I understand the carbon hype now. But like any frame build quality and design is paramount over the actual material.

Depends on whether you're trying to build a 'race' bike ( ie angles and components inspired by race bikes for ones own enjoyment) or a racebike ( ie a tool to achieve a result)

If its the former and you're content with that, them you'll end up with a lovely bike, If it's the latter you need, then steel isn't the first frame material that springs to mind, no.

to give you an accurate idea of just how light modern carbon fibre frames can be (compared to other materials)

my Specialized Stumpjumper 29'er hardtail frame in 17.5" (medium) is just 1.22kg with seatclamp and water bottle bolts

its actually lighter than my Specialized Tarmac SL2 road bike frame, also carbon fibre!

Back in the day I used to have a Bontrager Race Lite RS (an original one, built by the man himslef, not a post-Trek sell-out model).

It was built from True Temper road tubing, with no frills or bells and whistles (Bontragers were one of the first MTB frames to do away with a chainstay bridge).

The frame weighed a midges' cock over 4lbs, and all up weight for the complete bike, even with RockShox Quadras (remember them?) was about 21.5lbs.

At no point when I'm racing do I think to myself 'I wish for the money I'd spent I'd got a heavier steel frame'.......

Then again the only thinking I do is 'aaaagh I want to die'

In simple terms your throwing away 1kg from the start, that will be 10% on everyone else roughly compared to carbon.

Not when you include the weight of the rider...

Well, if steel's is good enough for the MAMIL's favourite 'apparel' purveyor's team...
[img] [/img]

Steel is simply the wrong choice, just get carbon fiber lightest and stiffest, exactly what you want from a XC race frame. CF has been the material of choice for XC bikes for about 10 years now.

If it's a straight forwards weight Vs cost equation, I suppose you could look at making weight saving compromises elsewhere on your "race" bike to accommodate using that steel frame.

Apply a bit of the [I]"less is more"[/I] philosophy?

1x10 or even SS?

Rigid fork (carbon or alloy maybe)?

Maybe spending more on lighter drivetrain and finishing kit? carbon for seatposts and bars, some XTR bling...

Diddy rotors could maybe shave some grams, but 140mm rotors to slow down a 29er?

I suppose a big part of it is how much (or little) are you willing to spend and what compromises would you accept to get a steel framed race bike down to a weight equivalent to a Carbon framed one....

It can be done, but you'll probably end up spending marginally more to achieve about the same result in terms of weight, so is riding a steel framed bike really that important to you?

Perhaps it's better to pick a couple of off the peg carbon race bikes (Say a stumpy and a whippet XT build) as general benchmarks, and just go from there...

You could find a solaris frame second hand, get a carbon stumpy or whatever full build, ride it, swap the bits to the solaris frame, ride it, sell the frame you don't like as much.

Might not cost you that much, depending on what you buy for and how compatible the bits are.