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SS DH bikes do make a lot of sense.
Comment section interesting as usual.
Love it!
If I were making bikes I'd be ashamed to let one go out with the gaping voids in the braze that are clear in the headtube here:
Nice. Almost inspired me enough to go out to a cold shed and finish making the hardtail frame that has been stalled as a front triangle for months.
Not sure why the half link chain - they weigh a ton and if you pedal up too many hills they end up fatigue cracking where each link is bent.
Looks a great platform for a gearbox...
Ha, just read the comments, seems mr starling and I have similar opinions on sick 😂
What makes you think there's gaping voids. The welds are just not filed. And this bike was never cleaned up post brazing, this was deliberate to give a raw finish for Bespoked.
The brazing is damn good, can you do better?
Have a look through Starling social media, it is indeed a good starting point for a gearbox bike...
Not sure why the half link chain – they weigh a ton and if you pedal up too many hills they end up fatigue cracking where each link is bent.
Not to mention stretch like hell as you're always straightening the bend out but I'm sure Joe has his reasons even if it's just that it looks funky and is easy to get the length just right.
Phut - would you mind me asking about the vertical tubes you use at the front of the rear triangle / swingarm? Is it a flattened plain gauge tube or something that was already a rectangular-ish cross section?
What makes you think there’s gaping voids. The welds are just not filed. And this bike was never cleaned up post brazing, this was deliberate to give a raw finish for Bespoked.
The brazing is damn good, can you do better?
Yup. he can 😉 I've seen it.
I'm sure it's strong as hell on that headtube, but it's not that pretty.
I'm no expert (though I was taught by Mr Brian Curtis himself) and this is what some of my unfiled brazing looks like....
It's the top quarter of the downtube to headtube junction with the distinct lack of filler rod. Not structurally unsound or a void exactly, just not an even braze of the kind that I would choose to clearcoat for publicity were I in your place.
Good luck with it all though.
Have a look through Starling social media, it is indeed a good starting point for a gearbox bike…
I see! Does the effigear mean that you have a constantly moving chain? I, and my carved up leg, can tell you that this is a sub optimal set up, unless you plan on covering it
So those
gaping voids
Have been revised to
Not ...... a void exactly
Thanks for the tube info. Good to know as I like experimenting with oddball frame layouts
I'll be staying well clear of the braze debate - I'm stuck with paste not gasflux so always seem to find the odd divot on what looked good before cleaning off the flux.
Arghhh! Where is that Denzel gif from? It’s driving me mad!
I’m stuck with paste not gasflux so always seem to find the odd divot on what looked good before cleaning off the flux.
Gasflux is so nice to use isn't it 🙂 I've used it a few times (first time when being schooled by Mr Curtis), and since I've mostly had to use powder/paste. It's harder to get a really nice clean braze that you can leave unfiled.
I'm certainly not saying that those joints above would be weak, and having seen some of his work in the flesh he can do some really nice fillets. I'd say that looks like a proto (which it is) with some of the brazing done in a bit of a hurry. Brian would probably say 'Too hot, more rod.'
Great looking bike. Will never buy a DH rig but it makes me want to!
Tom,
I never can really understand what your problem with us is? I work for Sick! You have never once enquired about a bike ? What makes you think our products are so bad?
James
Please don't derail this into yet another sb discussion.....
If I were making bikes I’d be ashamed to let one go out with the gaping voids in the braze that are clear in the headtube here:
This, absolutely shoddy workmanship as usual, and from the photos worse than what was being punted at steel demo day. If curtis had made that it would be almost perfect, To imagine thats in the same league fit and finish wise is delusion.
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/review-curtis-am7-not-just-a-pretty-face-pretty-fast-too/ for reference and their FS bike is equally as well crafted.
I enquired about one of these a few weeks ago:
£3,250 (£2,954 without tax applied for sales outside of EU) for frameset without shock. But it does include: Rideworks eccentric BB, Profile cranks, chainring, two Profile Jackshaft cogs, chains, rear cog and Hope singlespeed rear hub. Basically all the running gear.....
I wont be getting one but cool though!
@howsyourdad1 I seriously doubt many will.
DH racing has somewhat died here in the wake of the resurgence of XC. albeit full day XC stage racing (Enduro sportives).
The bike is hella ugly and incredibly niche.
I do like the idea but not really the finished product.
Plus buying a S/H DH bike and SSing it yourself makes way more sense at about 1/6th the cost.
Yeah.. yeah... high pivot idler awesomeness.. but in reality that makes no odds at all and is actually detremental to rear braking characteristics.
What does it weigh? Either fully built as ridden in the vid or as frame only (with shock and idler hardware, rings and cranks)
Never wanted a DH bike before but I want one now.
It is a two-stage drive I think, not a single stage with an idler. If that's what you meant geex. Though there is an idler gear doing chain tensioning duties (presumably) on the rh chain. It would be interesting to hear the thinking behind that.
i think it's kinda cool and appreciate the need to get out there and get exposure etc. DH bikes are already pretty niche and as GEEX says this is niche on niche. all good though!
Though there is an idler gear doing chain tensioning duties (presumably) on the rh chain. It would be interesting to hear the thinking behind that.
Brett uses either a 13T or 15T cog maybe its to save having to swap chains? I dunno.
I’m no expert (though I was taught by Mr Brian Curtis himself) and this is what some of my unfiled brazing looks like….
More than one way to skin a cat though. There's a good video on the Bicycle Academy Youtube of Tom Ritchey and Brian Curtis comparing their brazing techniques, they both do it very differently, you can even TIG braze!
Speaking of stuff we don't like, over sharpened, over stabilized, 60fps 🤢🤮, the sooner that trend dies the better.
@cyclessouthwest
do you have a personal axe to grind with Starling? It’s just that you come across as a total t**t that is going out of your way to rubbish their work. You quickly back-pedalled on your statement when challenged, why is that? Are you a rival frame builder and if so you ought to come clean about your biased opinions.
This, absolutely shoddy workmanship as usual, and from the photos worse than what was being punted at steel demo day. If curtis had made that it would be almost perfect, To imagine thats in the same league fit and finish wise is delusion.
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/review-curtis-am7-not-just-a-pretty-face-pretty-fast-too/ /a> for reference and their FS bike is equally as well crafted.
Curtis bikes may well have pretty brazing but that’s totally useless if they can’t be arsed to ever answer your inquiries about a frame. No amount of artistic welding will ever make the rear end of the Curtiss full suss look less hideous but if their work is so good why is considered by you to be only “almost perfect”?
Same question to you, what personal beef do you have with Starling that you are willing to write slanderous comments against their business on a public forum?
do you have a personal axe to grind with Starling? It’s just that you come across as a total t**t that is going out of your way to rubbish their work. You quickly back-pedalled on your statement when challenged, why is that? Are you a rival frame builder and if so you ought to come clean about your biased opinions.
This is the first time I have mentioned Starling frames online. I moderated my statement based on "Void" being a technical term that is incorrect here and also to add the point that structurally it will be perfectly sound. My point was not to insult and re-reading it I have made my initial comment too flippantly and too strongly.
I do make frames, not commercially. My opinion, though poorly and flippantly expressed earlier is unchanged. If I were building a bike for publicity and leaving it raw and exposed like this I would be all-out to make it faultless, especially given the others in this industry - Shand, Coconino, Curtis, etc.
If I were building a bike for publicity
I saw the Starling bike at Bespoked and it was the bike that stood out most to me as one that was both interesting and I'd most like a go on.
I don't care what all the frame building legends on this thread say. That bike looks amazing and I'd ride the wheels off it.
Brazing snobbery means nothing to people like me, to me Joe’s bikes look stunning, ride fantastically and get rave reviews. On top of that they are designed/built by an engineer you can speak to in person.
Most of us would recognise a great bike most would not recognise great brazing. Then again I suppose it’s a matter of opinion as some comedian once pointed at the welds on my Nicolai and told me they are appalling and amateurish.................some people are just too dim to try to explain things to!
@thisisnotaspoon – now that is good work!
Not mine, and done with a TIG torch rather than a flame so the heat is more directed, so not a fair comparison, it's certainly welding porn though!
I don't know how TIG brazing compares to doing it with a flame in terms of strength.
Where are these gaping voids? I zoomed in on the head tube not sure what I am looking for?
Wow, Philxx is even more of a bell end on PB than here!
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Yeah.. yeah… high pivot idler awesomeness.. but in reality that makes no odds at all and is actually detremental to rear braking characteristics.</span>
Think it's a 2 stage drive with LHD crank and a transfer shaft through the pivot, like the Brooklyn Machine Works of yesteryear...
I like it, bit out of my price range/needs though.
What's that got to do with braking characteristics?
What’s that got to do with braking characteristics?
Who mentioned braking characteristics?
Wow, Philxx is even more of a bell end on PB than here!
He doesn't shower himself in glory does he.
I did Speeder. Then amongst the pish forum software enduced text vomit cookeaa quoted my comment about it.
Doesn't really matter tho. No one here is ever going to buy one.
Oh yes. Braking will be fine, ok it'll the rear will dip under breaking but that's a good thing as it'll lengthen the wheelbase and stabilise the thing. It will possibly be a bit skippy but to be honest not much worse than any single pivot and the rearward axle path will more than make up for that.
It's possible to fit a brake arm to reduce the dipping and smooth things out but it's not worth the weight penalty or faff. I used to have a Balfa with an optional arm and it was a major pain with no appreciable benefits and rattled like hell. Bike rode much better without.
Yeah, I already knew all of that Speeder. You don't see it as a negative. I've ridden enough single pivots to know I do. Massively. I'd always go for a bike with braking characteristics I like over the square edge hit performance of a high single pivot. We're not all the same. and that's fine. Choice is nice to have.
@Philxx come on mate spill the beans, why do you hate Joe and Starling so much? Did he cop off with your wife or something or are you just jealous because you are a frustrated frame builder?
Intrigued to know why you are so vitriolic in your posts on here and on Pinkbike it appears very personal for you?
Maybe he'd prefer it if it were painted. Blue perhaps 😉
I know it's Halloween but WTF?
Brooklyn Machine Works SuperTrucker. All 70 glorious pounds of it! (its not a single speed though, hub gears y'see)