[Closed] Starling Murmur - Experiences?

Saw one with a folded top tube at the gusset.Rider was less than impressed given he had'nt noticed doing it until I pointed it out.

Luckily that can be ironed out

Edit. I’ve got a Swoop (27.5) and I’ve had no problems with it. Really nice feeling to the bike and what little bit of “give” there is adds to the feel.

Goes up hill n down hill nice n fast (for me) and it doesn’t suffer from the afflictions of some other single pivots.

Really loving my murmor. I've got it long and slack. Pedals well enough up, descends like a demon. It's not light, especially with the kit I've put on (33lb build) 63deg head angle and 470mm reach is slacker and marginally shorter than a geometron. Prefers sit and spin to mashing pedals. Still fiddling with the x2 to get it set right (need to borrow a shock wiz). I suspect it needs a volume spacer as it feels a little linear, but never bottoms out harshly. You do need to get weight over the bars with it being as slack as mine but that's the idea. Rails turns. Rear tire clearance is decent. I've got a 2.35 Hutchinson toro on a flow with good mud room. If you've got specific questions please ask. With the weight it's not for everyone, but you could build it significantly lighter. I just have a tendancy to break bits. It's my pride and joy and it's beautiful Joe is sound to deal with as well.
*edit* it rides a lot lighter than the scales suggest

Rode a proto for a week in the Basque Country and it blew me away somewhat. Very confident on the downs with lots of room in the cockpit to move around. The more I leaned forward, the more confidence inspiring it became. It was no slouch on the ups either, stomping up a 2000m climb. It really hooked up on silly techy climbs too, where there was enough weight over the back to get loads of traction but it didn’t want to lift at the front. Didn’t feel heavy to ride, coming from a low 20s 100mm hardtail...

it doesn’t suffer from the afflictions of some other single pivots.

Care to elaborate - as it's a single pivot and the pivot looks to be in a very similar location to the recent oranges and it has a similar shock to modern oranges (the few proper single pivot bikes, rather than faux bar linkage)

Thanks for the info so far everyone. My current setup is a 26" 160mm travel weighing in at 34lbs ish so 33lbs doesn't sound bad as I manage to drag that around and have a Ragley BigWig for the not so gnar bigger days out.

I was thinking of the X2 shock (seems to have a DPS on all the pics). However, my current bike has a Cane Creek DBair which I love and thought about getting converted (length and stroke) as it needs a service anyway. Any thoughs on rear shocks?

Care to elaborate - as it's a single pivot and the pivot looks to be in a very similar location to the recent oranges and it has a similar shock to modern oranges (the few proper single pivot bikes, rather than faux bar linkage)

I'd put money on that being placebo syndrome, or comparing to earlier Oranges where the pivot was in a less good location. I'm not saying this as a negative for the Starling, more than people are imagining problems that aren't there (brake jack - ha!)

I absolutely love mine! First and foremost I think they are absolutely stunning, and a breath of fresh air over the uber tubes of the like of trek and specialized. The frame immediately felt fantastic, but I was coming from an older Yeti 575 so the differences were massive.
You've got to adapt your riding a bit to suit, as said above, a bit more weight over the front unless you're heading down the steepest of stuff. For me the main advantage was getting to spec the geometry myself which has pretty much allowed me to create my ideal bike.
Joe's at Starling is fantastic and he's always working to improve the design and spec of his bikes which is nice to see, he's not content just making something and then stopping the design process. I was a bit of a nightmare customer asking hundreds of questions and trying out his bikes before making a decision but he was happy to accommodate and it's great to be able to email a person rather than just a random inbox.

I test rode a lot of 29ers before making the final decision, mainly the Trek Slash, Spesh Enduro, the Yeti SB5.5, and a couple of 27.5"ers and the one that came closest was probably the yeti. The main advantage of the yeti being it's weight but would have had to get an XL to get the right geometry but at 5'9" the seatpost would have been ridiculous.
The Slash felt great but just felt a little dead compared with the Starling; that manages to keep that amazing roll-over of a long-travel 29er, but still feels lively enough to be fun and let you get away with murder on the trail.
I was looking at getting some travel adjust forks too to help it with climbing but after talking with Joe, he recommended just getting solo air as they're just not needed and he was right (almost like he knew what he was doing!). The bike climbs incredibly well, especially given it's pretty progressive geometry and weight, although on really long climbs I do tend to lock out the shock just to save a bit of energy.
The only downsides I've found on the bike are:
The boost rear end gives extremely tight chainstay clearance, and with slightly flexy carbon cranks and crank boots, they rub a bit when sprinting up a hill but are fine all the other time. Joe will no doubt fix this in latter models and he did warn me prior to this, but if it really bothered me I'd take the crank boots off.
The other thing was it doesn't seem to hold the fabric cageless bottles well. I'm not sure if it's VERY slightly off on the bolt spacing or whether the position of the cage puts a lot of downwards force on the mounts but it chcucked bottles, so I've stuck a £3 halfords cage on which works a treat. Other than that I really can't fault it. The weight is far less of an issue than I thought (mine's 15kg on the dot with pedals and hope bits) but you could build it a bit lighter if you wanted.. Happy to answer any questions though about it or the process. One very happy customer here!

this thread needs more pictures

The boost rear end gives extremely tight chainstay clearance, and with slightly flexy carbon cranks and crank boots, they rub a bit when sprinting up a hill but are fine all the other time. Joe will no doubt fix this in latter models and he did warn me prior to this, but if it really bothered me I'd take the crank boots off.

flexy cranks rather than flexy chainstays?

Just to elaborate - I’m not comparing the Starling to any other specific brand of bikes

My previous experiences were with a few different brands...I could never get a single pivot bike that went up and down well and stopped controllably (to my liking)

May be placebo effect - tho I’ve ridden enough bikes for long enough to know what I’m talking about. Some of it is to do with the shock - tho I’ve had three shocks on it (monarch +, x fusion coil and an X2) and it has climbed and descended well without significant pedal strikes or bobbing. Basically the pivot position is in a good place and the flex is not an issue.

Only significant flex I’ve had (where tyres rub on Chain stays) was when the bushes on the shock hardware didn’t fit quite right

I’m running a 2.35 minion dhr 2 on a Flow 2 rim

[img] [/img]
There's mine in it's latest guise...

Mates got the 27.5 bike. Its great but it seems to get through a lot of swing arm bearings.

flexy cranks rather than flexy chainstays?

I think it's a bit of a combination of flexy bits - but the whole stiffer is better thing is really starting to lose it legs, especially in the burly bike market.

Mates got the 27.5 bike. Its great but it seems to get through a lot of swing arm bearings

His is an early prototype and got hammered (it’s older than mine and swing arm is a lot narrower)

Least it’s easy to swap the bearings out!

frood - Member

63deg head angle and 470mm reach is slacker and marginally shorter than a geometron

No it isn't 🙂

I've just got a Swoop. I haven't had it that long but the two rides I've been on have been great. It climbs really well, descends on rails.
It's so comfortable. I recommend waiting for one, I would try and get a test ride on one first. I've have been riding for years so have ridden single pivots before so it was quite easy to go back to one.
Swoop Spec:
460mm reach
64HA
170mm RS Lyrics forks
Ohlins air shock
12-speed X01 eagle
Derby carbon wheels(35MM rim) with hope hubs (normal 142mm)
Hope cranks
There's a picture of it on Instagram. Look under #starlingcycles
It's Red and black I can't get work out how to post a picture.

this one?

edit. dammit. my ninja instagram javascript hack sdoesnt work anymore.

This one?

[img] [/img]

Sweet looking bike, and I recognise that picnic bench 🙂

<removed duplicate picture>

Edit: Ah too slow

@thepodge Yes! that one. The picture was taken on the first ride in Leighwood.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

(brake jack - ha!)

That's mostly about technical definitions- when people say "brake jack" they don't necessarily mean genuine brake jack, it just gets used as a catchall for "braking screws with the bike".

To be honest, I was worried about the whole "brake jack" thing - but all it's made me do is brake less in the corners and on the really rough stuff - it's meaning the bike is carrying a load more speed and the suspension is doing all the work as it should.

Quite like the idea of one of these but as a shorter travel trail bike - like an equivalent of the Process 111.

honourablegeorge - Member
No it isn't [\quote]
We're talking about the Murmor, so you're right, I do apologise. Geometron long is 460mm and 64.2degrees in slack setting for the 29er. So it is longer and slacker. I apologise.

 

I've had a swoop for just over a year now and it's been excellent. Luckily I managed to get in before the Dirt review and the massive waiting list. If i didn't I'd probably be looking at a murmur now too

Joe's great to deal with too, super helpful, even leant me his shock while my x2 was in for a non-exploding air can. Highly recommended, only downside is the waiting list!

I presume his rumoured move to Taiwanese production would have something to do with the waiting list.

Well if that's happening, he must believe there's sufficient demand.

Interested to see what geometry he settles on if this is the case, or whether there'll still be an element of customisation on offer.

I suppose there might be some merit to mass producing all the rear ends, would let you spend more time on custom front ends.

Can’t see why a Taiwanese welder couldn’t do custom front ends too...keep Joe’s input in providing the customer care at the start (as a customer, this was important to me) then get the numbers to the welder and make sure you keep track of the frames

It’ll not be as cheap as “mass produced” but should allow growth. Tho whether or not this is what’s planned, I don’t know.

The Taiwanese model does work for Chromag tho. 50 frames each a year done by Chris DeKerf / Mike Truelove and the rest done in Taiwan

I suppose there might be some merit to mass producing all the rear ends, would let you spend more time on custom front ends.

That makes a lot of sense.

Could even do full off-the-peg frames AND rear ends in Taiwan, with a custom front-end option courtesy of Joe for some extra dosh.

Well if that's happening, he must believe there's sufficient demand.

Couldn't find anyone who would do it in the UK or could and wouldn't pay what they were asking. I actually heard a lot about this at the steel is real demo some mental idea of getting lots of different companies to make lots of the bits and putting them together dumb.

Could even do full off-the-peg frames AND rear ends in Taiwan, with a custom front-end option courtesy of Joe for some extra dosh.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Much as the custom frame idea seems cool, it does make it near impossible to demo a bike to see if it's actually what you want. And it adds a lot of pre-sales time and effort to make sure a custom order ends up with a bike they like, so it should cost more.

I'm thinking of ordering a Starling Murmur. Has anyone got any real work experience of riding one? If so what did you think?

Simple question may be - where abouts are you based? if you're nearby could always have a bounce around on mine?

Simple question may be - where abouts are you based? if you're nearby could always have a bounce around on mine?

Thanks for the offer! I’m in Oldham, north east Manchester. Where a ours are you?

[img] ?oh=0105eb83f94bba39bc5cf54a4269c3be&oe=5A9F1CB3[/img]

Not long now my pretty! Not long now... 😛

Mines on order... but this thread is useless with out geometry spec!

So what has everyone gone for with the custom options and your height?

Interesting... do the new frames not use metric shocks?

I posted already but here's a repeat. There's a pic already on here.
Red front/ Matt black rear
460 reach
64HA
430 ST
110 HTL
Use a 40MM stem
170MM forks
normal 142MM rear axle
no chain device BB thingy (ISCG)
I'm 5'8" (173mm)
I wanted to use an oval ring but couldn't get it to fit
I've got an Ohlins 216mmX63mm shock

Mine was an early Swoop - photos are on Joe’s site somewhere (it’s the dark blue / orange one now with matching fork decals)

HA 66deg
ST 410mm
DT 712mm
HT 110mm
440mm reach
Forks fox 36 160 mm (549mm a-c)

I started with a 35mm stem, 810mm bars and went down to 50mm stem / 800mm bars (tho the new stem / bars raised the position somewhat

Mojo then added 20mm to the forks a-c and increased travel from 160 - 165mm so I dropped the stem 15mm to compensate. I also added an offset bush and I’ve got a -2 deg angleset to play with at some point

So truth be told, I don’t actually know what my reach and HA are now. Just that it doesn’t matter cos it works fine

Shock is 216 x 63 Fox X2

Mines on order... but this thread is useless with out geometry spec!

Mine’s an early Murmur frame, belonged to somebody else before they traded in for a longer/lower/slacker I believe... They didn’t have it long mind, and it now has a fresh paint job.

Crucial numbers with a 160mm fork are 65HA, 460mm reach, 440mm seat tube, 74.5SA I believe. Though I’ll probably run with 150mm forks which will probably mean 65.5HA and 75SA. Which is fine as I want more of a trail bike feel than out and out Enduro sled anyway...

Saw your post on SIR Facebook page - thought I recognised the name (I bought your old Lyrics off you in the summer for my HT)

Good to see you join the Starling murmuration 😉

Btw - for earlier poster, I’m 5’8”

Murmor. 470 reach, 63HA, 160 fork, 35mm stem and 820 bars. I'm 5'10" could probably have added a bit more reach with the stack height as it is but absolutely loving it

My Murmur is great, it's the kind of bike that needs to be ridden fast to get it's full potential. A ride in the carpark won't do it justice. It took me a good month to get familiar with it. I'm 5'11 and went for 480 reach, 440 seat tube and 65ha..I think with a 150 fork.

mboy - Member

Not long now my pretty! Not long now...

What colour is that mboy? I always wanted muine Cadbury purple but they couldn't apparently get a match in the powder and that looks pretty close.

Gary, sorry my powdercoated decided to give a canday a go, but it's been a bit tricky!

Like the purple frame.

Thread needs more pics though.

phutphutend - Member
Gary, sorry my powdercoated decided to give a canday a go, but it's been a bit tricky!

No worries. When mine gets too battered I'll have it done local. The guy that's going to do our first run of BMXs has got quite a wide palette and I'm pretty sure he had an exact match (near as dammit).

chakaping - Member
Thread needs more pics though.

Here's my blue one -ok it's a Swoop rather than Murmur but there's not a massive difference.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

It's:-

440 reach
64° H/A
380 Seat Tube

I'm just under 5'8".

Gary

Very similar geo to mine - except the slackness on yours is a bit slackerer

Do you have any issues with it being slightly too slack? Any issues going up hill? What sort of riding have you been doing?

I like that blue 8)

tmb467 - Member
Very similar geo to mine - except the slackness on yours is a bit slackerer

Do you have any issues with it being slightly too slack? Any issues going up hill? What sort of riding have you been doing?

I could have gone with the recommended slackness of 66° (at the time) but I figured I wanted something that felt like a mini DH bike that I can pedal up. I didn't want to go Geometron extreme as I actually wanted to have some fun riding this at the sort of speeds I do these days. Not to say you can't have fun on those but I'm a bit on the short side so I struggle to get the front end up for manuals and bumping off stuff if I can't get my weight back.

How does it ride?

Considering it's a completely different shape to my old full sus bike (a 2010 Tracer) and I hadn't ridden that for 6 months (stolen) it wasn't completely alien. OK riding down the road the first time with the front wheel flopping from side to side I did wonder if I'd gone to far but now it's been on a few off road rides I've got used to it and it feels great. It's fun and stable and I feel suitably stretched out as you're supposed to do these days so all those boxes are ticked.

No issues going up hill, it's got a pretty steep seat angle so your weight is in the right place so it doesn't feel to bad. I don't get the "it's all wandery" idea I'm doing 2-4mph at best - who cares?! Riding wise it's a mix of trail centres uplifts and razzing about/pushes up in the woods. I'm pretty time poor so big day out adventures don't really feature these days. It's brilliant at what I use it for.

I'm in no way a serial bike changer, I figure I'll get used to anything and I bought this as a bike for life or at very least a long long time. There are a few things I'd change if it were my company for sure but they're very much on the small refinements side of things. The geometry choices I think I got bang on for now at least & I can't see me changing it anytime soon.

Try the angleset. You've nothing to lose other than a few quid it could be brilliant.

Cheers! Really appreciate the response

I’ll have a play with the angleset then - can see it being a bit different from how it rides today though.

Least I can always take it out if it doesn’t feel right...need to get riding down hills a bit more than across dales (or bridleways anyway)

I didn't want to go Geometron extreme as I actually wanted to have some fun riding this at the sort of speeds I do these days

Might be late to the party but my specs are:
470 reach
64.5HA
430 ST
110 HTL
32mm stem
160MM Yari (hopefully getting a Lyrik asa!)
Boost 148mm rear axle
ISCG lower mounts - currently unused
Direct-mount 30t oval ring
aaaand Monarch plus shock

I'd have loved to go full fox, but saved hundreds of pounds going rockshox.

Thanks for the offer! I’m in Oldham, north east Manchester. Where a ours are you?

I'm down in Coventry so might be a bit far away unless you're ever near Cannock Chase.

What height are you mbquerty?

duir - Member
Have you ever ridden a Geometron?

No but 440 reach is about as much as I feel comfortable even riding so a jump to 485 for the Geometron long I feel would be too much for me to feel comfortable on - unless there's some magic in there somewhere. Being open minded I would love a go but I'm not sure I'd get on very well.

What height are you mbquerty?

I'm 5'9", I thought i was playing it semi-conservative and actually for me it feels 'just right'. I could have maybe gone 10mm longer as once I'm actually on it and in the attack position, it doesn't actually feel long at all. It's probably a bonus, but I felt like I maybe played it safe, especially considering the 32mm super short stem

That is nice [b]Speeder[/b] really like the blue colour. Wish I could afford to entertain the idea of a Swoop or Murmur as they look lovely.

bungalistic - Member
That is nice Speeder really like the blue colour. Wish I could afford to entertain the idea of a Swoop or Murmur as they look lovely.

Thanks it was a bit of an afterthought as it was supposed to be Cadbury MiniRoll purple but we couldn't match the powdercoat to it, it's not a bad substitute :D.
I got lucky with a new for old payout on a stolen bike. I was fortunate to get in before the price adjustment and even then I'd not have been able to afford to spec the bike as it is if I hadn't scoured eBay and the classifieds for 6 months.

it was supposed to be Cadbury MiniRoll purple but we couldn't match the powdercoat to it

Ah... You best look away when I post some pics of mine up in the next few days then, cos I’ve almost finished building it! 😆

It’s starting to look the part now to be fair, just gonna have to take it easy first couple of rides still cos my right thumb is still pretty buggered up from a crash the other week, but there we go...

mboy - Member
it was supposed to be Cadbury MiniRoll purple but we couldn't match the powdercoat to it
Ah... You best look away when I post some pics of mine up in the next few days then, cos I’ve almost finished building it!

It’s starting to look the part now to be fair, just gonna have to take it easy first couple of rides still cos my right thumb is still pretty buggered up from a crash the other week, but there we go...

Nah I've made peace with the colour - I really like it though I do think a purple would have looked a bit more moody. I'm sure it'll look great.

We should have a Starling meet up to compare. ;o)

We should have a Starling meet up to compare. ;o)

Well I'm only 30 mins up the M5 from you it would seem, so yeah absolutely! Do you ride the FoD at all...?

Spent most of the evening loosely assembling it and testing everything for fit, then taking some measurements etc.

So, bare frame was 7 1/2lb on the Park scales, add another 1lb for the Fox DPX2 and I reckon it's giving away 1lb at most to a similar ally frame, if that. In fact probably not that much, my Evil Wreckoning was over 7 1/2lb including Monarch shock and that's carbon.

So currently mine has been assembled with MRP Stage forks @ 150mm travel, Fox Float DPX 200x57, E13 TRSr wheels, Eagle X01 groupset, 170mm Raceface SIXC cranks, SRAM Guide RS brakes (200/180), Burgtec Carbon Trail 760mm bars and 50mm stem, Maxxis Shorty 2.5(F) and Minion DHR2 2.3(R) tyres with Huck Norris inside, Nukeproof Horizon CL pedals etc. Forgot to take the dropper to work with me this morning, so currently has a rigid post on it, comes in at 32lb on the nose right now with beefy rubber. Plan is to use my Crossmax XL's with lighter/faster rubber on for more XC/trail riding and the E13's for days out on the bigger trails.

Some crucial numbers as measured...

430mm seat tube
335mm BB height
1245mm wheelbase
65deg HA

Can't wait to get out on it now! 😀

Mine as you see it up there but with a more conditions appropriate 2.3 Shorty on the front is 30.65lb on the happy scales. I've not idea how these calibrate but they seem pretty accurate.
Pretty happy with that for a strong build. I've not been a weenie over it but I have been careful in speccing stuff. Well all apart from the wheels & the gears, the wheels are Flow3s on Pro4s so a but were a bargain that came up at the right time and the gears are XTR - not the lightest or biggest range but I really fancied some XTR just because I've never had any.
Cranks are SixC same as yours just a bit shorter.

Yes to FOD, I was there on Saturday for a slow bimble. No idea when I can do but if you're over there regular I'm sure we can do something.

Looking forward to seeing it built up.

Add me to a FoD ride, PM me if you arrange one please. Ta

qwerty - Member
Add me to a FoD ride, PM me if you arrange one please. Ta

[img] [/img]

So, I sold all my MTBs and only have a Gravel bike these days. But, its bikes like this that have the debit card itching.

That bloke from Pinned TV has one that looks incredible. Love the Murmur and the Swoop.

Actually, if it helps narrow a date down, the only Sunday i can do this year is 17Th December.

So it arrived finally, and I got it built... (click pic for more pics)

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Yes to FOD, I was there on Saturday for a slow bimble. No idea when I can do but if you're over there regular I'm sure we can do something.

I go down there quite a lot, so yes will do mate.

Actually, if it helps narrow a date down, the only Sunday i can do this year is 17Th December.

Ironically, that's the only Sunday I CAN'T do this year! 😆

I'm sure we can sort something Martin...