[Closed] Stanton to sell cheaper Taiwan frames

Same here don’t see a problem, an affordable price point for running a second bike or getting started in mtbing.

So long as people are up front about what they are doing it's all good.

Don't get this? Bar the new full suspension frames they have never been built in the UK?

All the steel hardtails are now painted in the UK but made in the Far East

Nothing wrong with that, just trying to sell more bikes. Im really gettting a bit of a stanton itch.

Bonus points for hipster use of VW transporter spec levels...

Correct me if I'm wrong and I might well be, but don't a lot of these steel bike makers start off with full 853 bikes then slowly reduce the quality of the tubing until it's 4130 whilst still singing how great it is?

I appreciate they make a posh bike still but £799 for a steel frame is bonkers I picked up a Whyte 909 for £700 more.  I like cotic and stanton, but they aren't any better than the Alu/carbon offerings out there. in fact after CERN I think they feel a little dead. Compared to the earlier offerings I've owned.

I'm  surprised at the lack of interest in Curtis bikes he's been doing all this and more for much longer.

Im sure 1000s of people will buy and enjoy riding them and the custom colours are cool.

but they aren’t any better than the Alu/carbon offerings out there

I prefer steel bikes. Everyone is different and it’s nice to be catered for or have a choice. I’m shallow and thing the majority of carbon and alu bikes look s bit shit. Love my Flare, loved the Stif Morf, Escapade etc. Steel bikes look pretty and I just prefer how they feel. YMMV

Like Rik says, surely the other ones are also UK made? Doubt they'd make a big noise about "finished and painted in the Derbyshire Dales UK" if they were UK made..

Isn't the story that the "usual" models are now made in the UK, and that a "new" model has been made in Taiwan (but painted in the UK) to keep costs down.

That's the thing funkmasterp, I always get suckered in by the thin tubing and chunky suss fork combo. Then when I ride it just think I should have stuck with what I know works for me.

I would be surprised if all the frames other than the new Startline are going to be made in the uk. If that’s the case £700 for a uk made frame seems very reasonable. Would imagine they will all be Taiwanese made but different tubing and no yoke to keep costs down to make a slightly cheaper frame.

I have had a 26’’ slackline and a 27.5 Switchback which was hands down the best hardtail I have ridden. I would love a gen 2 Switchback for the versatility of different tyre widths as the original was tight on clearance but can’t afford/justify £700 for one.

Im interested to see if the 29’’ version of the new Startline would take fatter 650b tyres (say 2.6/8) and what the geometry will be.

after CERN

did they find the higgs boson

Im pretty sure that hard tails are all made in Taiwan, iirc there were fb posts about factory visits by Dan/Stanton.

Unless things have changed in the last couple years since I got my Sherpa...

£500 seems a lot though for a 4130 frame, they probably still use nicer parts than on-one, DMR but that's a big jump in price.

 I’m  surprised at the lack of interest in Curtis bikes he’s been doing all this and more for much longer.

Curtis moved production offshore ages ago. Don't known if they still do. That's why at one point you could get them in the CRC sale for peanuts.

I believe all the Switchback and Slackline frames are now being made in the UK rather than Taiwan.  Could be wrong though.

I paid less than £500 for my Tange Prestige tubed NS Eccentric very recently.

Still a bit steep isn't it?

Does 853 breathe with the trail better than 4130?

It's interesting - company makes big noise about VFM offering that's built and painted overseas and yet a lot of people don't know where their current models are made and/or painted. Bit of a marketing fail, imo.

Things cost lots more in the UK than when when I were a lad… (even if that was only 2015)… many people just haven't accepted that yet.

I don't know where Stanton's other hardtails are built… website just claims they are moving to UK paint for some… no suggestion of any being UK built.

Yeah, I think putting Taiwanese in the headline has confused many.
Their hardtails were always Taiwanese. So this is just a cheaper tubeset.

They've added 'UK' to the names of lots of their other frames, but no mention of what the 'UK' bit means.
All a bit odd.

I assumed I'd find lots of mentions of the full sus being made in the UK on their site, but I couldn't find it mentioned - compared to the press articles where it's always mentioned. More oddness.

Stanton’s Facebook says they’re going to be making most/all of their current hardtails (bar this model) in the UK now they have a manufacturing facility set up here. But yes, everything up until now was Taiwan made and apart from this Facebook post, all the press I’ve seen from Stanton has been about a shift to UK painted for the hardtails, not full UK made.

Regarding £499 for a 4130 hardtail - you can’t really compare to On-One with their hit and miss quality control. But loads of Taiwanese 4130 frames are around that price, Stif, Production Privee, Chromag, etc. Not a lot of steel hardtails use fancy Reynolds steel.

£800 for a Stanton makes a custom built Curtis seem a no brainer, no silly CEN standards making them overly stiff either!

£800 for a Stanton makes a custom built Curtis seem a no brainer,

I've ridden both, the Stanton wins hands down. It's not always the case that a man with a brazing torch in a shed produces the best handling frame...

But any framebuilder inc. Curtis will have to reach CEN (think it's ISO now) standards if they are to be sold in the UK

I'd be fascinated to read a back-to-back test of this frame versus the 853 equivalent, all the same compnents on each frame.

Is it not more a case of what’s done with the material rather than the material itself? The Stif Morf for example is 4130 but has some fancy pants work to the seatstays and other areas. As a result it (IMO) rides beautifully and I’m assuming costs more to make than your average, standard On One frame.

My mk1 Switchback is the best bike I've ever had, I love it, and this new frame looks pretty similar apart from some of the nicer details. It's still not 'affordable' by any means though and no ISCG mount is a bit bobbins. Even Cotic learned that lesson with the new Soul 😉

I had a really nice 4130 frame a few years ago so +1 to the what's been done to the tubes rather than just poo pooing the material as 'cheap'.

"I’d be fascinated to read a back-to-back test of this frame versus the 853 equivalent, all the same compnents on each frame."

I suspect the chainstay length will be shorter on the 853 ones because of the complex yoke allowing more clearance. That'll be pretty obvious and once you've realised that then placebo effect will probably get involved...

"Is it not more a case of what’s done with the material rather than the material itself?"

YES! And this could be applied to so many threads on here, not least the one about steel full-sus frames.

I suspect the chainstay length will be shorter on the 853 ones because of the complex yoke allowing more clearance.

The mk1 Switchback (no fancy yoke) has the same length as the mk2 with the fancy yoke, the only difference is the tyre clearance.

But

That’ll be pretty obvious and once you’ve realised that then placebo effect will probably get involved…

This 😆

I had it in mind that the original frames were from Japan for some reason. Something to do with welders. Had no idea they were making them in the UK.

it's an old article, and about road bikes, but here's a case where a group of bike testers rode 7 different tubesets "blind"

http://www.habcycles.com/m7.html

Taiwan-

https://www.stantonbikes.com/2016/05/19/stanton-bikes-trip-taiwan/

But any framebuilder inc. Curtis will have to reach CEN (think it’s ISO now) standards if they are to be sold in the UK

Pretty sure that's not the case any more with the caveats they introduced for competition and extreme stupidity categories which you could say some of these fit into and still provide a limited warranty

It's possible to build a super light super flexible bike and still pass iso anyway.

Interesting read the road bike test of 7 identical bikes(different) steel. I’ve owned lots of steel MTBs/cx/retro steel road and they have all felt samey !! As article says geometry and fit trump material

Havent Stanton been quite vocal about how they are aiming at bringing All their frame manufacturer works within the UK. They had an order due to be made around the time of the brexit vote which lost them several 100k in potential profit when the £ dropped in value as a result. This prompted a move to UK manufacturing, hense painting all their frames in-house.

Recently bought a Stanton and have talked with them a fair bit.  From what they said - all their bikes bar this new entrant are moving to their UK manufacturing facility.   This includes future Ti frames too.

A good thing for the UK bike industry IMHO.

I don't think people have a problem with it, more they are just surprised especially as Stanton have always promoted their frames as almost `money no object' when it comes to their  design first principle.

Anyway, Stanton have just announced a life time warranty on all gen 2 frames backdated, which is great and really reinforces their already good customer backup.

Is it just me, or does the Startline actually look nicer than their premium bikes? A lot less fussy.

But any framebuilder inc. Curtis will have to reach CEN (think it’s ISO now) standards if they are to be sold in the UK

There's an allowance for custom framebuilders, otherwise they would need to build two of everything to test! Some make tweaked versions of a standard frame (size to fit, angles etc) and submit the 'standard' one for testing but I think that's for marketing/peace of mind rather than a rule. There's ways around everything anyway, the same way lots of places sell "show" number plates (or plenty of other car parts) that ostensibly aren't for road use.

All their frames are now built in the UK. Hence the 15% off sale on the second gen Taiwan frames on the site.

I have the second gen Sherpa frame and its great so much more supple than carbon or aluminium. would love the Ti version but it £1850 for the frame

its interesting the value people put in a tubeset. With the same outer diameter, the different grades of steel make a difference to the weight of a frame, but not the flexibility, and thus not how it handles. All of the stiffness characteristics are driven by the tubing diameter (which is why steel is more forgiving than alu).

This does seem pricey compared to others. But people will probably pay the badge tax.

With the same outer diameter, the different grades of steel make a difference to the weight of a frame, but not the flexibility, and thus not how it handles.

Really? I always thought the grade of steel made a difference and am pretty certain my Soul rode better than my BFe and my Slackline feels better than the Switchback I tried...

When both the BFe and Soul used 3 853 front tubes, they felt quite different because… shock horror… they used different tube profiles, wall thicknesses and butting. Ride bikes to see how they ride… don't just read the tubing badge.

Anyway… are we at the point where the new "uk" named Stanton hardtails are made in Taiwan, and finished here… or are they made here? I still don't know where "plans to build hardtails in the UK", and "hardtails you can buy now with UK in the name" crossover, or don't.

tube profile makes a difference, but (from what I know) tube thickness and butting makes no difference at all - it affects the overall weight and strength of the tube, but not its resistance to flexing.

Digging out a "tubing rigidity for dummies" type link…

£799 for a steel frame is bonkers

It really isn't, or it may be. Depends.

With the same outer diameter, the different grades of steel make a difference to the weight of a frame, but not the flexibility,

Same tube dimensions = same stiffness, only the strength varies as the alloy changes (assuming by grade you mean alloy eg 853 vs 4130 etc. If by grade you mean butting, that does affect flexibility as well as weight).

Anyway. I'd rather have a well designed 4130 frame than an 853 (etc) frame that uses duff tube dimensions for the use I'd give it. Basic Cr-Mo in the right dimensions is brilliant stuff for a bike frame.

The outer tubing of all different steels maybe the same, but with higher quality steel the thickness can be highly reduced. For example, the top tube on my Sherpa which is Reynolds 853 steel is only half a mm thick, but is 1.5mm thick at the head tube. could not do this with cr-mo 4130 which is more of a basic steel.

Despite being one year off my 30 year MTB anniversary I don't think I could tell the difference in ride qualities between steel, alu or carbon let alone different types of steel.  However, my Slackline (in red) looks the nuts in a way that only a skinny steel frame can to someone who also saved up his pennies to buy a '93 Kilauea.  It's the same feeling that was skirted around in the steel FS bikes thread, they just look cool and no amount of engineering know how or deflection discussion can change the fact that a lot of carbon FS bikes are starting to look like a H R Giger fever dream.

In my humble opinion of course.

I got a lifetime warranty email today.

nice touch to apply it retrospectively to all 2nd gen frames.

Anyway… are we at the point where the new “uk” named Stanton hardtails are made in Taiwan, and finished here… or are they made here? I still don’t know where “plans to build hardtails in the UK”, and “hardtails you can buy now with UK in the name” crossover, or don’t.

I'm waiting for a Stanton Ti frame and have been in touch with them on and off over the last few months. As I understand it, they are transferring all production of the existing range, both steel and Ti, to the UK. This shift is what's holding up my frame, which is still a couple of months off

I wonder if moving production to UK will allow them to do smaller runs of more niche bikes due to not having minimum orders. I would have one of those 29+ Sherpa they prototyped a few years ago.

This does seem pricey compared to others. But people will probably pay the badge tax.

Really? It’s the same price as a Morf or a Trailstar which are both 4130. It’s not On One pricing but it’s comparable to other frames.

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Geeky fact, that only applies to small changes, so add 20% to wall thickness and stiffness goes up 20%. But if you go so far that the hole begins to be significantly closed up then stiffness drops and it acts more like a bar.

Most grades of steel have comparable stiffness so a thinner 853 tube is less stiff than a thicker walled 4130 tube.

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