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Absof....in'utely, incandescently angry.
Yet again I've failed to get a Stans setup to work properly.
Back in the day I used to use UST tyres on UST rims. Worked brilliantly, but the rims were narrow and heavy. (or wide and REALLY heavy)
So i bought into the Stans hype. In this case - on my big bike, I've got Flow rims and want to run a UST tyre on the front, so yellow tape only and a dual ply non-ust on the back with the rim strip. This is a setup I've run before, and once inflated, works perfectly.
Normally, I can just about get them to inflate with much cursing swearing and heaving on the track pump and using neat fairy round the bead, but it's always a ball ache, I HATE doing it - everything gets covered in fairy and is slippy, and I have to 1/2 murder muyself to get enough pressure going. Takes teh best part of an hour, and I always end up losing my temper over it.
This time, no joy. And at 1745 on a Saturday night, I've just managed to snap the top off my track pump and in the same process take out the low hanging florry tube in my workshop. So i've now got a lake of neat washing up liquid with a sprinkling of glass in it, and a buggered track pump flooding my worlshop, and I can't go out tomorrow on the bike I've just put £300 worth of new bits on (hell, there's best part of £100 worth of frigging tyres!). The tyre was a tight fit on the rim, and I thought it might even go up dry (had to use the big tyres levers to get it to pop on. But no. Defeated by a frigging bike tyre.
It's absolutely destroying me, that something so damn simple as pumping up tyres should be so unbelievably difficult (especially when full UST was so easy). Tubes isn't an answer as I'd have to run DH ones to avoid pinch flats, and that just makes the bike awful to ride (been there, done that). Do I seriously have to spend £100+ on a compressor, just to blow up some damn bike tyres???? (In reality it's going to be nearer double that to get a compressor that's poky enough to justify it's existance in other ways)
(I've seen assorted bodges with lemonade bottles. Not really interested in those, as the idea of it failing in a confined space doesn't really inspire me.)
Is there a simple, clean, easy, cheap way, that just, f...ing works???
(and yes, if you really feel the need, you can roll out the ancient Badger photo)
Co2 cartridges work great
I have *never* had a single problem with stans rims. Apart from a tight fit with some schwalbe tyres. Even that isn't a massive problem!
track pump works fine for me and has done for years takes about 5 mins a tyre max.....I think you are suffering from being a dribbling buffoon with all the mechanical ability of a chimp on PCP. 😀
Make one of those pressure vessels that a few have posted on here, costs a few quid, try a search
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Maxxis UST on Stans. No fairy liquid. No compressor. No fancy pump thing.
Fence sprayer - £12. Works bloody brilliantly 🙂 hose perfect size 🙂 put all my tyres (non ust) on this way.
Never ever struggled with my ZTR rims, just attach pump. Pump. Done.
Even done it with a mini pump once.
How warm is your workshop? I unseated my rear tyre last week to add more sealant and it wouldn't go back up with the track pump as it normally would. Used a hair dryer to warm up the beads and it then went up easily. That's a tubeless ready (Continental protection) tyre on a Flow rim. Did you seat the tyre with a tube overnight?
Calming vibes your way.
I'm a long time mavic UST user, switched to Stans about a year ago with some trepidation and have to say it's been effortless. Everything's gone up first time with a track pump, even moved away from UST tyres recently to TLR nae problems. So I think for sure it does work, but clearly not universally so for all tyre combinations.
You probably know all the tricks anyhow, but the inner tube in to seat the tyre, followed by deflation and careful removal along one side has never failed me for a troublesome case. Had to do this now and again even with UST tyres that are a bit old.
Personally I would never buy a compressor to inflate bicycle tyres. If desperate, though, I would probably give the ghetto compressor a whirl. Can't you wrap it in an old pair of jeans or such like for safety?
Just Buy a compressor...
It's a tool. A tool worth owning if you use tubeless tyres.
Still surprises me that some people will pay three times the actual value of some tools because they have park stamped on them but baulk at £50 for the obvious workshop tool for tyre inflation....
Gonna bang on about on how awesome I am. Swapped my tyres over last night on flows - 2.4 ust RQs which are tight as ****. It's all technique just push the bead Into the middle with the valve last slosh some jizz in track pump to 40 psi - job done. No soap or levers and I do have tiny girl hands
You wouldn't try and get a pair of m/c or car tyres on without a compressor - so why should you expect to get bicycle ones on?
Yes, some do without, but it is far, far easier just to buy the right tool for the job.
And mine has more than paid for itself this week as I've been using it with an impact driver to dismantle some old machinary.
Much easier with a [url= http://www.topeak.com/products/Pumps/jb_mountain ]Joe blow mountain[/url]
Mine went up with just a foot pump, was a bit of a pain, and I ended up having to use vaseline on the bead to get it airtight enough for it to initially seat, but they did both go up without a compressor.
A compressor is definately the right tool for the job, but it can be done without.
As an aside, most of the petrol stations round here have gone to 'digital' compressors, and they're no good for inflating tubeless tyres, they dont supply anywhere near enough flow of air.
inflate with a tube to seat one of the beads. Remove tube, add fairy to unseated bead, core out, pump for your life.
This has worked for me with maxxis HRs, Advantages & Laarsens on Crest & Arch and Hans Dampfs, Fat Alberts & Big Bettys on Flows and Sun Ringles.
I did make one of those compressors from a fizzy drink bottle & duck tape the other day which made the process a lot easier.
Try this...
Get hold of one of those [url= http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_203617_langId_-1_categoryId_165760 ]ratchet straps[/url] that you can use for securing cargo onto a roof rack or truck
With both beads of the tyre on the rim, tie the ratchet strap around the outside of the tyre (along the part of the tyre that contacts the ground.
Tighten it up so that it squishes the tyre in the same way that sitting on your bike does - but the strap does this all the way round.
With the sidewalls (and hopefully the beads) now in contact with the rim, inflate the tyre.
As you inflate, and the tyre starts to seat on the rim, you can gradually loosen the strap.
Pour yourself a beer 🙂
Are they new tyres?
I found tyres stretch over time, so if you take them off then try and use them again they don't seal as easily and can be a pain.
what's the trick with the fence sprayer then?
Co2 cartridges BTW Jon.
Fence sprayer - £12. Works bloody brilliantly hose perfect size put all my tyres (non ust) on this way.
Hey doncorleoni,
How is the valve connector rigged on that fence sprayer?
I've got a garden sprayer that i use for cleaning the bike, and fancy trying out your technique next time I swap my tubeless tyres (If/when the dry weather returns)
CO2 cartridges work, but can have adverse effects on the sealant..
I use a double-barrel car foot-pump. Takes a little technique, but works fine.
Never had a problem just using a track pump with Flows and UST Maxxis and Bontrager Big Earl tubeless ready tyres, until I burped one on the FoD downhill tracks - couldn't get it back up after that for some reason.
That's with yellow tape and no rim strip btw.
So for you perfect people, for whom it is just [i]so[/i] easy, critique my technique please.
Flow rim. 2 wraps of yellow tape, Flow rimstrip.
Brand new Highroller 2.35, 60A twin ply. (this is a good, tight fit on the rim)
New valve core (and the valve stem cleaned out of dry snot)
Mount tyre, Syringe in a load of wheelmilk, replace valve core.
Push it all into the middle, so both beads are touching in the rim well.
Neat fairy round the bead, for lubrication and added temporary sealing.
Pump like **** with a (now ex) Topeak Joe Blow Sport.
I've tried inflating without the valve core in in the past. It does make the initial inflation easier. But then you have to deflate the tyre to put the core back in. At which point one of the beads is guaranteed to break it's seal, and the only way it will reinflate will be to break the second one, so that both are touching in the rim well and start again, at which point you've acheived nothing by inflating without the valve core in.
Possibly, but still one who has been employed in the past because of his bike mechanicing skills...dribbling buffoon with all the mechanical ability of a chimp on PCP
Once the tyre is try squashing the tyre so the beads move (hopefully) closer to rim, valve at the bottom. Pump like ****. I've only got one layer of yellow tape & perhaps get rid of the cloth rim strip..
Expert mechanic here, I can do everything 😀
you aren't doing the tyre smacky routine a la stans instruction video are you? 3 min 15 sec...sounds silly but makes all the difference.
I feel your pain. despite some tubeless ready claims, some times just wont seal up on stans rims. continental mountain king 2s are a bitch to seal. its deffo the choice of tyres. schwalbe hans dampf went up 1st time with a track pump. bontrager & schawble tyres seem to seal up easily too.
Why are you pushing the tyre bead into the rim well? This will prevent an air tight seal.
Try without doing that and it should work.
You wouldn't try and get a pair of m/c or car tyres on without a compressor - so why should you expect to get bicycle ones on?
What? WHAT?
Just. No.
Leave the valve core out, FFS! You get a billion times more air flow with the core out. Pump like **** then once the thing is seated, get the pump head off and your thumb over the valve stem sharpish before doing a bit of fast hand movements swappy stuff to get the core back in using the proper Stans tool. Costs about a fiver, no need for a compressor
Try removing the core. Obviously if it does go up all the air will come back out, but should leave the tyre bead seated.
Never had a problem myself using just a Lezyne Dirt drive track pump.
8)
Take the valve core out, and when you remove the pump put your finger over the end and quickly put the valve core back in. Generally means you lose some but not enough air to lose the bead seating.
Either http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/ghetto-tubeless-inflator-total-cost-9p
Or CO2 cartridges.
Don't spend a fortune on a compressor.
C02 cartridges.
Seat the tyre with the C02, then let the stuff out. That stops the sealant going funny. I put the sealant in at that point and then pump with a track pump which is dead easy once seated properly.
Easy. And you can get 100s of cartridges for the price of a compressor, and you'll only need a fraction of that.
Other option is to be fully UST as apparently the tyres are easier to seat, but they're more expensive and twice the weight.
ZTR flow with 2bliss Spesh purgatory 2.3 tyres
Fit one side of tyre.
Pour 2oz of stans sealant in,
Fit other side of tyre.
Attach joe blow track pump
Pump to 40psi.
Shake sealant around inside of tyre.
Do it right first time and its sooooo easy.
USE THE CORRECT TYRES/RIMS/SEALENT AND YOU CANNOT GO WRONG.
[i]Easy. And you can get 100s of cartridges for the price of a compressor
[/i]
No you can't 🙄
Flow rim. 2 wraps of yellow tape, Flow rimstrip.
Brand new Highroller 2.35, 60A twin ply. (this is a good, tight fit on the rim)
Is the tyre too tight a fit and then won't pop out toward the bead hook and seal? Maybe one less layer will help it out of the well onto the sides and seal. I like motox tyre bead cream instead of fairy for tight tyres that won't quite pop and seal fast enough, like a soap/wax mix.
Also find it's worth starting from scratch and cleaning everything out with soapy water before trying again, bits of half-dry sealant can stop things sealing etc.
Good luck.. The only job that has me 'mo-fo!'ing at my bike is a tyre/rim combo that won't quite seal. Cleaning, bead cream, checking it over and adjusting the fit if needed (layers of leccy tape), then it'll usually pop first time with the track pump.
Edit to add, to fit one side of tyre fully againt the hook from the inside before fitting the other is a good point made above, fiddly but usually helps.
JonEdwards - Member
So for you perfect people, for whom it is just so easy, critique my technique please.Flow rim. 2 wraps of yellow tape, Flow rimstrip.
Brand new Highroller 2.35, 60A twin ply. (this is a good, tight fit on the rim)
New valve core (and the valve stem cleaned out of dry snot)Mount tyre, Syringe in a load of wheelmilk, replace valve core.
Push it all into the middle, so both beads are touching in the rim well.
Neat fairy round the bead, for lubrication and added temporary sealing.
Pump like **** with a (now ex) Topeak Joe Blow Sport.
I've tried inflating without the valve core in in the past. It does make the initial inflation easier. But then you have to deflate the tyre to put the core back in. At which point one of the beads is guaranteed to break it's seal, and the only way it will reinflate will be to break the second one, so that both are touching in the rim well and start again, at which point you've acheived nothing by inflating without the valve core in.
Only one wrap of tape needed. Make sure it overlaps by 2 inches and is pressed firmly into all the contours of the rim.
Warm the tyre.
Take the valve core out.
Don't put fluid in yet.
DO as much as you can to get the bead OUT of the well.... that's there to allow you to get a tight tyre onto the rim in the first place.
Slather with vaguely diluted fairy liquid.
Attach floor pump and pump like Joe Buggery.
Be prepared to do the smacky thing... you'll be able to see where it isn't even starting to seal.
Once it starts to seal pump until you hear the bead bang onto the rim. Retrieve the cat from the top of the kitchen units.
Once it has sealed, take the pump head off and let the air out. Squirt 60ml Stans Jizz in using one of my 60ml syringes.
Replace valve core.
Attach pump.
Pump like f*ck.
Beer/cake.
Put stans in tyre, put tyre on rim, attach compressor, inflate tyre, 5s later bead seats, shake wheel about a bit. Job done.
Belugabob - it's a cuprinol (sp?) fence sprayer, I just unscrewed the head - the bit with the spray nozzle in. The hole at the end of the lance is a tight fit on the valve at first but you can run a small screwdriver down it to tease it out. Literally just pop this onto the valve (with valve core removed)....pump up the pressure vessel, and when you ready, pull the lever on the lance and watch your tyre pop up.
Seriously - for £12 it's a very useful tool! Pumps tyres up and you can use to wash your bike after a ride (keep mine in the car sometimes).
Until I discovered this, I too struggled with tubeless and dont have the pennies or space for a compressor.
Replace the rim strip with yellow tape.
Mount your new tyres using tubes for a few hours. This will press the yellow tape down and more importantly, straighten out the beads in your tyres that presumably came folded up. The folds will stop the bead from sitting evenly.
Buy a new pump, those specialized ones with a triangle base are both sturdy and stay upright when you let go of them 🙂
OP, don't beat yourself up, I've had similar issues. All my problems went away when I started using a combo that worked (Arch / Ralph's for example), and bought a load of those cheap co2 cartridges online. I also have a cheap compressor but the co2 is better at seating the tyres in my experience. Once it's seated, I'll deflate it to purge the co2 (doesn't play nicely with sealant), then reinflate with a track pump.
Doncorleoni,
Sounds like you got lucky with the nozzle size.
I got my spare garden sprayer out last night (yes, I've got a spare - don't ask) and took the nozzle off.
Pumped it up to max, then pressed the trigger - a small plastic tube that was in the line of fire, shot clean across the room!
Need to modify the nozzle to fit the valve, then I'm good to go.
Thanks for pointing out a solution that was staring me in the face (every time I went in the shed)
🙂
[b]b r[/b]
Easy. And you can get 100s of cartridges for the price of a compressorNo you can't 🙄
Box of 50 £20. £40 for 100 therefore.
http://www.tyreinflators.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=262&category=9
Find me a decent compressor for £40 (not ghetto job, not one of those cheap jobs with no reservoir).
I put Bonty tyres on Stans Flows with no problems. Put a tube in and leave inflated overnight, then pop out the tube and no worries.
Getting the yellow rim strip right is the most important part. Don't wrap twice. Once will do with a two inch over lap. To ensure the tape is in right take stans advice and blow up tyres with an innertube and leave for an hour or more.
Then follow your normal steps as you've done. Some very good videos from stans on you tube shows it done right.
Jez www.followingthechainline.blogspot.com
Jon - I feel some of your pain. Getting fat-ish (2.25/2.35 maxxis) onto Arch EX rims was a bit of a performance. But having had them on and off a few times now, it all good. Rear is a LUST, front is a DHF Evo.
Only thing I can add is
a) if new wheels/tape/tyre lob a tube in overnight to really seat the rim tape
b) double check the valve. Sometimes if there is too much tape near the hole, the bung won't seal. I remove ALL the tape from the hole to make sure I get a good seal.
9 times of out 10, it's all fine. 1 out of 10, I have to go outside for a little cry.
What helped me was using a tyre lever to fit the tube into the bead as best as possible.
Was struggling with a Crest rim, Schwalbe "Tubeless Ready" tyres and a Topeak Jow Blow Sport last night and this is what sorted it for me. My fingers are now bleeding, but it is tubeless!
Don't give up.