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thinking of building a ss cx bike...are them eccentric bb any good? They look nice any tidy.
Can i use any front ring (as opposed to narrow/wide)?
Yes, brilliant.
Yes, you can, however, last time i was looking narrow wides were by far the cheapest option atleast if you want steel for max bulletproofness.
Great...they cost 110quid! Don't mind aslong as they work and are well made
Oh hang on.
Do you mean an eccentric BB adapter thing into a threaded standard shell?
Sorry i though you were talking new frame. I can't comment not tried them but if they aren't, the second cleanest look is a bb mounted tensioner that pushes up, like a stinger but one that goes in place of a bb spacer.
My Sanderson has an EBB but it's designed for it and has a bigger shell to allow for more movement. If you are thinking of the Wheels Manufacturing ones you need a frame designed for 30mm crank spindles and then you run 24 or 22mm cranks to give you the movement you need. If your frame has a threaded BB I don't see how it could work.
If your frame has a threaded BB I don’t see how it could work.
They do exist, its not an adapter its an eccentic external BB.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bottom-brackets/trickstuff-excentriker/
That kind of thing? I think you may need a half link aswell potentially. If you do then you CAN'T use a narrow wide.
I'd be quite interested in how well they do work too actually.
propper ebbs are fab things, the adaptors like the wheels manufacturing, team beer, problem solvers arent bad and the ones that screw into traditonal threaded bb, like the trikstuff excentriker are also pretty good. take your time with set up and they can be spot on. the only issue is that you dont get as great range of movement so its worth getting a couplenof cheap cogs (or take an old casette appart) to get the ratios that work, then buy a nicer ss cog once your size is sorted.
They do exist, its not an adapter its an eccentic external BB
Cunning. And spendy.
The manual
does suggest that you may need a half link.
Its a regular pf30 frame. I dont even know what a half link is...totally new to this singlespeed stuff
I've got an EBB that works with a PF30 frame if you're interested?
I used it for a few weeks on my commuter then went back to running gears.
Halflink replaces a complete link by having kinked plates so over one half inch segment it goes from narrow to wide.
If tazzy says they are decent you're on to a winner.
Regardless of what you choose you should definitely build a singlespeed.
Could be a hairbrainer as my commute had 1000ft of climbing each way
I think a proper EBB is the most sensible way to have adjustment for a SS or hubgear. You're guaranteed perfect wheel alignment every time and quick adjustment.
The only flaw with EBBs is that they are susceptible to ham-fisted types who overtighten them resulting in an ovalled BB shell (in some bikes) and then whinge the EBBs are no good because they don't stay in adjustment.
I've got 2 different types of EBB that work on standard BB shells with BSA thread. They're trickier to get adjusted perfectly, but are still much better than sliding dropouts IMO.
The other advantage of an EBB is your rear wheel has a fixed position so proper mudguards can be fitted closely with no need to allow for fore and aft movement in the wheel.
Singulars had a very nice EBB set up.
I already have the frame. I dont really want to fit a tensioner. So that leaves me with either just a halflink chain or a eccentric bb. Happy to pay the money as long as they work well
So that leaves me with either just a halflink chain or a eccentric bb
A half link on its own isn't a great idea as when you chain wears you'll end up with a slack chain and no adjustment.
Get the adapter even better take not my real name up on his offer. If it all comes undone you can reinstate and shift it on.
Oh, I missed that post.
Which one is it?
I've got a Trickstuff EBB for sale if anyone is interested. No longer needed as I have a GT Peace SS.
I've been running an outboard eccentric BB for ages - I can't remember the brand, it was a German thing, I think, that's no longer made. My take fwiw is that it was slightly fiddly to get exactly aligned, I didn't need a half link, but that was mostly luck / juggling ratios and when you have to adjust chain tension, you have to adjust the BB, which is more of a faff than sliding drop-outs. Mostly though it works and looks very clean - much neater than a tensioner set-up and no issues with wheel or chain slippage. It's currently on an old ti mountain bike frame, but I may build a ss steel cross bike for winter.
The White Industries one looks good bar the special tool needed for installation. They come up on eBay occasionally.
I have got a Phil Woods languishing in a box
Bought an Indy Fab with a Philcentric; had the grub screw bosses removed, holes filled and had a Bushnell fitted.
Much neater and, IMO, a better performing EBB.
I'm with joshvegas on halflinks. They're an excrescence.
Instead of a halflink, which is a very temporary solution, simply use a rear cog one tooth up or down.
There's no such thing as ideal gearing on a singlespeed, so your ratio is going to be wrong 90% of the time anyway. Your legs adapt to whatever ratio you choose anyway.
If you're willing to play around with cog sizes*, and/or chainrings, you can set up a SS with no adjustment. If you use steel chainrings and a good quality chain you're not going to have adjustment problems for a while, and they can be taken care of by simply changing a cog or chainring size.
*eg buying 3 cogs is way cheaper than an Exzentriker, and use wax rather than oil (aka grinding paste) to lube your chain.
I have the Cannondale EBB and it is hideous to adjust.
On my BMC I have a mystery EBB that is stunning.
will any chainset/crank work?
If you've got a PF30 frame, then the Wheels Manufacturing EBB is a great solution. I've got two, one on a hardtail, the other on a CX bike.
They're just a pair of cups that take a 24mm bearing, same a Shimano hollowtech BB, so any 24mm chainset fits. When the bearings go, you just pop new ones in.
A pair of long bolts connect the cups and hold them in place. To adjust the chain tension, you need a lockring remover tool; just loosen the bolts off, use the lockring tool to rotate the cups then tighten the bolts. No need to remove anything.
Grease the cups properly, keep it all clean, keep an eye on the chain tension and they're grand.
buzzin!
There’s no such thing as ideal gearing on a singlespeed, so your ratio is going to be wrong 90% of the time anyway. Your legs adapt to whatever ratio you choose anyway.
Don't agree. I am very specific on my gearing and a few inches too high or too low doesn't work for me and my legs won't adapt to grinding a gear up all the hills on a gear that is 5 or more GI too high.
However, just need to get you calculator out and based on the gear inches that you want find the suitable cog and chainring combination that also gives the required chain length for wheel position or EBB position. Each tooth changes distance between axle and BB by 3mm so if for example you needed to shorten by 3mm and had gearing of 42/18 you could just change to 43/18 where the higher ratio is negligible. (Yes I have been riding fixed gear for too long)
kerley
I am very specific on my gearing and a few inches too high or too low doesn’t work for me and my legs won’t adapt to grinding a gear up all the hills on a gear that is 5 or more GI too high.
Hills? I thought you were a flatlander living down there. 🙂
will llspd chain work ok?
Provided you use 3/32nds cogs and chainrings then literally any chain you will find will work.
8speed is my chain of choice for much cheapness but 11 will work.
its just because I have an 11spd shimano grx chainset
ah old used stuff is even better cheapness.
I save all my ofcuts of singlespeed chains.. nearly got a whole one.
Hills? I thought you were a flatlander living down there.
I did say hills not mountains and it is "rolling" where I live and not really flat in many places at all so getting a gear that is good for flat, up hills and not need to spin above 200rpm on downhills requires a range of around 5 GI for me between low and high. I suppose SS is not so essential though as you can coast down the hills.
its just because I have an 11spd shimano grx chainset
That will take any chain btw
Hi, for some reason it wont let me reply to your message or send you a new message? please could you try messaging me again?
@kerley I did say hills not mountains and it is “rolling” where I live...
I was tongue in cheek. Not so obvious now I've looked at it again.
One of my vivid memories is is hitting the Hampshire Downs on a trip down from the far north of Scotland loaded with far too much gear (olden days, heavy tents, brass stoves etc). I rated them as worse than the grind up the Shap because there was no time for a rest on the down bits before you hit another up.
Don't know why they're not called the Hampshire Ups. 🙂
Hi Sefton, you've probably worked out from all the replies that there are various standards and sizes for eccentric BB's.
PF30 BB shell will take a Problem Solvers or Wheels Manufacturing BB. The advantage of this type is that it clamps between the faces of the shell so if you overtighten it, it will not ovalise the BB shell. I'd recommend a torque wrench for the bolts as they need to be a bit tighter than you'd normally be comfortable with. Also, make sure the inside of your BB is the same size all the way through, if there are lips behind the existing cups the two EBBs are unlikely to fit.
I found if I have the BB orientated towards the front of the bike for maximum chain take-up, it can slip a little, but I was able to remove a whole link and have the BB at a different angle. It will occasionally move a tiny bit, the only reason I notice is the chain can then ting on a bolt under the rear chainstay. As with all PF30 style BB's, the sealing is not up to much cop, but its easy to change the bearings. Finally, if you have a carbon frame or large holes in the BB shell where the main tubes join up, they recommend to have the bolts towards the bottom of the shell so they are not compressing the shell where the holes are. (not like in my photo) The only time mine has creaked was when I experimented with using carbon assembly paste on the faces.
The size in the photo takes standard Shimano et al Hollowtech II cranks.
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I have the Cannondale EBB and it is hideous to adjust.
I have one on my tandem and its simple to adjust and does not go out of adjustment. Great thing
magic ratio will only work if you hardly ride as the chain wear soon makes it go too slack. I have tried. Perfect setup, 1000 miles later ( with plenty of life left in the chain) saggy like old knicker eleastic
tjagain
magic ratio will only work if you hardly ride as the chain wear soon makes it go too slack. I have tried. Perfect setup, 1000 miles later ( with plenty of life left in the chain) saggy like old knicker eleastic
That's why you should use steel chainrings and cogs with Magic Ratio. You get much more than that.
Also by 1,000 miles usually the rider will have discovered they like SS and bought a proper SS frame (benefit - stiffer chainstays) or moved back.
will a rotor 3d chainset 30mm diameter work with one of these pf30 eccentric bb?
I wouldn't think so. The 30mm diameter crank won't leave enough space to fit bearings and still move them around as the EBB does.
The only ones I've seen work with Shimano or GXP cranks.
Think White Industries do one that's made for 30mm cranks. Squid bikes use them.
I have the Cannondale EBB and it is hideous to adjust.
I had one in a 1-FG, it required a club hammer to free it each time I needed to adjust it!
Absolutely loved that bike....
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/28/42784599_dcec7ba1e2_3k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/28/42784599_dcec7ba1e2_3k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/4Mhnv ]Singlespeed heaven[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
...just wondering...I plan to fit one of these onto a Ridley x night carbon frame PF30
normally the PFBB's sit inside the frame and the crank arms are flush with the BB.
...how will this now all fit if part of the eccentric shell extrudes the BB?
…how will this now all fit if part of the eccentric shell extrudes the BB?
The chain line will be slightly out, but it will still work.
Will it? Is there enough length in the cranks spindle to compensate?
yeah this is my worry
..also its a full carbon frame - doesnt seem like any metal insert in the bb void
Has anyone used one with a 100percent carbon frame?
When I said White Industries on the previous page, I meant Phil Wood. That's brain fog for you 🙁
Sorry if it confused anyone else. It confused me when I read it again.
Oh, the outboard eccentric BB I still have from way back is, I think, a Forward Components one like this. No longer made. Seems to date from at least 2009:
http://cyclic-bikes.blogspot.com/2009/02/forward-components-eccentric-bottom.html
Sefton - if you email Wheels Manufacturing they're pretty responsive.
Cheers will email them tomorrow.
Also noticed niner make one too
I'm not sure the Niner (Biocentric II) is the same size, happy to be corrected though as it takes a properly sealed BB rather than push fit 🙂
No reply. I've tried sending a few messages on Instagram to them and some other manufacturers too.
Has anyone used one with a full carbon frame?
I think you'll wait a long time for that question to be answered.
I can't really see why it will make a difference though. Its designed to fit in a specific sized hole, i can't think why the material makes much difference or where the ebb will exert additional forces?
Were either of your WheelsMFG bottom brackets tight to fit?
I just cracked the drive side cup on my Problem Solvers version. That one fitted fine.
So I bought the Wheels MFG one.
It feels like I will need to press it in, won't go in by hand. I know it's got the notch so you can rotate it using a BB wrench but I can't help thinking I'm not going to be able to rotate it to tension the chain.
Then I'll bash it out and it will look decidedly secondhand so I won't be able to return it!
My PF30 shell ID is about 45.7-45.8 and the new EBB is 45.95mm. I wonder if PF30 reaming is a thing, however I don't want to risk a standard push fit being too loose in future.
The old BB was torqued correctly, must be my legs! Worryingly, it's marked as discontinued with the distributor and I can't find it on the Problem Solvers website now, I wonder if others have cracked...
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I had exactly this problem with a Wheels Manufacturing EBB. Tried it in two different frames, both way too tight a fit.
I'd bought it from Starbike who were great, if a little slow and got a full refund after I sent it back.
Could try Beer Components as an alternative.
Thanks guys. I'll send the wheels one back I think rather than messing with the frame, I can't find anyone with the reaming tool anyway.
Was going to buy a cheap pf30 and run a tensioner but they are £30 and not sure why most of them say they are for road. So I've bitten the bullet and bought another Problem Solvers from the only shop I can find stock.
The biocentric 30 is my pick of the bunch, but they are not shipping internationally at the moment, and Origin 8 and Beer have big shipping charges.
spooky_b329
Full Member
@2tyredWere either of your WheelsMFG bottom brackets tight to fit?
Definitely snug, not possible to insert just by hand. I grease the cups up and use a homemade bearing press, or when I'm too lazy to look for it, carefully tap them in with a rubber mallet.
Once fitted, there's no issue backing the tensioning bolts off a bit and using a lockring remover to rotate the cups for setting tension.
Thanks 2tyred. I've just bought one of the last of the Problem Solvers one from Bikemongers. Now discontinued... Interestingly/annoyingly, Problem Solvers responded immediately by email when I had a fitting query last year, but when I emailed them about the cup cracking (hoping they might resolve rather than sending back to a retailer and distributor with no stock) they have ignored me.
Shand have just told me they have switched to a BB that didn't come up during my Googling, and it appears to be a bit like the Biocentric in that the two cups are linked to avoid misalignment and would be my first choice if I hadn't bought the Problem Solvers a day earlier...
It also looks like they manufacturer their parts in the UK which is nice
I can see Kerleys point on being picky about gear inches. But TBH that's more than offset by changes in gradient/surface/headwind. You're always in the wrong gear to a greater or lesser extent. Swapping between a 32 and 33t chairing isn't noticeable at all (although you have to remember it's a 2t difference to get roughly the same chain length change as a half link).
Even gurning up steep hills in too high a gear still works, as long as you can maintain some momentum and a cadence (even if it's in the 30-60 range) then your legs are pretty good at just applying more torque to generate the same power as your mate on his geared bike spinning away at low torque high/cadence.
I've ridden the same trails with the same group in 32-14 and 32-21. Aside from spinning out on the flats they both kept up just fine (the high gear just needed a bit more body English to get it up climbs as you had to rely on momentum rather than being able to grind up the steep bits).
Also Kerley and I ride fixed gravel bikes, not MTBs. Which is a completely different kettle of fish to gear as you're dealing with the downhill spinning and braking power as much as climbing.