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Firstly, let's define on the 'cheap'. It's all relative, but significantly cheaper than it could have been. Bikerr.co.uk have a few OEM XO partial group sets at a decent price. I have never used them before so I was a little sceptical but they have been brilliant. Their groupsets exclude cranks and batteries, but include cassette, mech, chain and shifter. I already had a battery and Wolf Tooth now do a Transmission compatible, 3 bolt SRAM mount, 0mm offset chainring so I was able to achieve a 55mm chainline whilst retaining my current XO1 carbon cranks (making the set up lighter than new XO). Once I sold my previous XO1 AXS it cost a little over £400 to change over.
Got it built up this afternoon and just back from a shakedown ride. A few observations vs SRAM's claims:
- Installation and setup are indeed very easy, but you only do that once and I have never really struggled to get limit screws and b-tension sorted. Nevertheless, it was very straightforward but you need to follow SRAM instructions sequentially as there are some differences to old style systems.
- Shifting under load is indeed incredible. I didn't believe the marketing about it shifting better under load, but it is true.
- Shifting is indeed slower but better. Down the cassette towards the smallest cog is about the same as before, but back up happens in a more deliberate way but not so slow as to be disruptive and the quality of the shift is worth it.
- The new shifter is indeed easier to live with. Compared to the old trigger which tried to emulate a cable shifter, this makes more sense and you can position it better for your needs.
- It is indeed quieter under all conditions. Even with a freshly waxed chain which is usually noisier until the wax wears in it was weirdly silent. The wax in the photos looks messy but that's how it looked after the 1st ride ride and a quick brush will have it looking clean again.
- The mech is indeed more secure and a very stiff platform which definitely contributes to the shift quality, but I do still have nagging doubts about where the energy contained in a crash might end up if the mech hanger isn't the sacrificial lamb.
So far so good. There are some definite improvements over AXS, and it leaves Shimano in the dust. They have a serious amount of catching up to do, at least off road.
Worth noting that even thought they ship from the US, I ordered from Wolf Tooth directly on Friday and the chainring arrive this morning.
Would I rush out and buy it if I have AXS already? At this cost to change, absolutely.
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Nice report. I'm tempted myself.
but back up happens in a more deliberate way
Like Linkglide. This is what designing for e-bikes first looks like.
Thanks e-bikes!
Whatever the reason, it makes a discernible difference to shift quality.
Should mean much longer lasting cassettes for the rest of us. And with the price of some of ‘em, that’s to be doubly welcomed! There are solutions that don’t need batteries though.
How’s the chainslap on it? Does it literally remove all chainslap?
that was a huge deal breaker on the old axs for me
The clutch is super strong. Apparently the resistance in the clutch has been increased but at the expense of battery life. I have ridden it enough to tell that there is no chain slap but not enough to judge the battery life.
In fairness I never really experienced chain slap with the old AXS but I do understand that some people did. Because of the way that the mech is tightened in a fixed position on the bike, the mech itself does not rotate so chain slap is virtually impossible. Unlike a traditional mech, it does not rotate around the anchor point at all. It is tightened to a not-inconsiderable 34nm so other than in a crash it ain’t going anywhere
Second ride this evening and I would say that it is appreciably better in a number of small ways that add up to quite a big benefit - the biggest of which is shifting up the block under pressure.
Worth the full groupset asking price? Probably not unless you need a new groupset anyway. But for £400, I am happy with the cost/benefit.
Good to see 3 bolt zero offset rings becoming available.
I've ridden it a few times, and yes shifting under load is great. It's fairly obvious that it's aimed towards cassette destroyers on E-bikes. I don't know how many standard Eagle cassettes we've had to throw in the recycling bin this year due to broken / bent teeth....
Shifting is certainly sloooooooow. The first time I went to shift through a few gears at once, I thought I'd killed the derailleur. But no, it was just changing gear when it felt like it, rather than when I wanted it to. It's quite comical putting a bike in the workstand watching the derailleur. For example if you are in second gear and you hit the shift button quickly 5 times to get to 7th I'm almost tempted to put the kettle on while waiting for the shifting to complete 😉 It reminds me of driving a car with a million driver 'aids' that stop you from driving the car how you want.
I also bent the derailleur cage on the third ride. Clipped a rock on the inside of a corner. I can't remember the last time I bent a derailleur. The people standing on the derailleurs in the marketing videos aren't standing on the cage.... In the 'good old days', the hanger would have bent a bit. Luckily I managed to straighten the cage with my hands, which is kind of ironic.
This did lead me to do some nerdy measurements off the back of the impact as I thought the derailleur was close to the ground.
Bottom of derailleur cage to ground. All bikes in 28 tooth cog. Same tire dimensions.
GX T-type derailleur / 27.5" rear wheel - 11.5cm.
GX Eagle derailleur / 27.5" rear wheel - 12.8cm.
X01 Eagle derailleur / 29er rear wheel - 15.7cm.
My next bike will be set up as a full 29er with mechanical shifting 😀
Although to be fair, if I was buying a full power E-bike I'd be getting Transmission. The under-load shifting is worth the trade-offs in this case.
Interesting about the cage. I wonder if they have moved the sacrificial part from the hanger to the cage either deliberately or inadvertently. The fact that the cage assembly is now a tool-less replacement and really simple to do makes me wonder if they knew that making the attachment to the bike and the upper assembly so rigid would just transfer the energy of an impact to the cage instead - it's a simple law of physics that the energy has to go somewhere.
Perhaps making the cage easily replaceable has either weakened it, or they knew that they had created a greater risk so needed to make it easily replaceable, although they have made lots of the parts replaceable too, so it is difficult to conclude either way.
Time will tell. I have never been a mech destroyer and I am pretty kind on parts, so I am hoping that it will last well, and the performance is definitely better than anything else on the way up the cassette. The speed trade-off is worth it so far. I am not racing for an Olympic medal so the split second delay is worth the buttery smooth shift for me. For some reason what seems like an age in the workstand relates to something barely perceivable on the trail.
Your measurements are interesting. I wonder what the difference would be at the extremities of the cassette (52t and 10t). Because the derailleur is fixed and does not rotate, the shifting arc is quite different. I wonder if it closer to the ground relatively speaking vs old AXS in different gears. In my experience, it is the clearance in the smaller cogs that matter most as the speed tends to be higher on impact. I am sadly never going particularly fast in the 52t so an impact would have very little consequence!
3 rides in and no gripes so far. On the contrary I would say that there is a definite performance benefit.
This is how I'd change to Transmission too. Keep my cranks, different chain ring, and change the derailleur, cassette and chain.
I've found that as I've started going faster down steeper tech trails, the more damage my derailleur is getting. Something that prevents having to replace a hanger every couple of weeks dose appeal.
The groupset I bought already had the shifter and was basically only a bit more expensive than the rear mech on its own aftermarket. Otherwise I would have kept the old shifter too.
You can get away with mech, chain, cassette and 0mm flat top compatible chainring. Makes the upgrade cost quite palatable if you can also sell your old gear for something.
No. I have ordered 3 in the last couple of years and never been charged. They use a fully paid express service which is remarkably quick and relatively cheap.
Thank you - that’s good to know
still running smoothly and consistent on your Bronson? Gonna take the plunge this week I think
Yep, 3 decent rides this weekend. My opinion hasn’t changed. It is very quiet, the shifting is smooth and the compatibility with the Wolf Tooth ring is spot on.
I am not totally sold on the shifter pod. Think I might actually prefer the old AXS trigger style. But maybe I just haven’t got the position just so.
No sign of premature battery wear but after 5 rides I would hope not. The green light is still on.
On balance it is definitely an upgrade. So a chap out at Leith Hill yesterday who had the XX SL and he had similar glowing things to say.
many thanks for the write up/follow up - good to hear it’s going well still usually start to see a few teething troubles after a few rides in so it’s good to know your still liking it with no issues
im tempted to mix gx (mech/shifter) with x0 (cassette/chain), from a shop as it’s not much dearer plus I’d get 2 yr proper warranty too
i know the new shifter can be used with the 'old' AXS system, but do we know if the old shifter can be used with the new Transmission system?
I am on the cusp of ordering a GX Transmission groupset via Cycle2Work, so its good to hear feedback.
Also i notice that with the chainring fitted bash gaurds, it looks unlikely that you can run a chainguide... I know thats not applicable to the OP, but anyone know if this is the case.
Yes, the old shifter can be used wit the new Transmission kit.
Nino Schurter was using the old shifter earlier this year with the new drivetrain.
Does Transmission work with "standard" ie not the new Transmission cassettes?
The shifters are backwards and forwards cross compatible, but that's the only part of the groupset that is. The chains, cassettes, chainrings and mechs are not interchangeable at all. To be honest even if they were, you would be missing out on the biggest improvement in rear shifting if you didn't use the new cassette.
The chainring mounted bash guards wouldn't be compatible with a frame mounted bash guard or chain guide from what I can tell. They would interfere on every revolution of the cranks.