[Closed] SRAM Hydraulic Road Brakes - Update

sounds like it's going to be more complex than a replacement seal kit with a different compound rubber in it that copes with lower temperatures then 🙁

You'd think with their mtb experience that sub-zero temperatures wouldn't be a problem.

I feel really sorry for all the people who have bikes they can't ride now. Retailers must be worried as it's going to cost them too.

Just think of the hassle if they choose Royal mail to courier the new brake systems

🙄

You'd think with their mtb experience that sub-zero temperatures wouldn't be a problem.

Despite the reliability issues Avid brakes have, this is the bit I find odd, Avid have been making brakes for a while, so why have they screwed up so impressively?

As an aside, if you use the brakes and it isn't very cold is there actually an issue????

I find it hard to imagine sram have called off the wrong seal. Isn't it more likely that the suppliers have supplied the wrong seal?

I think the thing SRAM are probably aware considering the target market in that the customers who have bought these brakes are quite likely to fit to their Winter road bike/CX bike, the kind of bikes that are more likely to get used in low temperature winter use.

TBF it's probably not that hard to make this sort of mistake, I think the fact that they're taking corrective action, rather than try and ride out a couple of court cases shows some integrity...

This will probably help reinforces some peoples dilike of mixing drop bars and disc brakes, and push others more towards fully mechanical Disc setups...

Not really avoidable though...

mrmo

I guess things like this can and do happen. No one at SRAM set out to make a product that fails. Hopefully, they will be learning from the experience. From my perspective, I've had two sets of Avid brakes fail on me - Elixir 3s and Elixir 5s. The latter resulted in me having an off on a downhill. I was lucky as I ended up with just a dead leg and a small cut in my knee. As a result, I've taken them off my bikes and won't be using them again. The 5s I replaced with XTR Trails - no point in messing about.

It seems to be the case that with my Elixirs that when the pads get close to worn out, air is getting in the system. It's not ideal if you are out on an epic in the middle of nowehere and the brakes fail like that or simply riding home on the road after a ride. I had to ride some ten miles which would have been mostly on road on the way back. I opted for taking it easy and going on the pavement instead.

Their cable brakes are ace but I can't see any circumstances where I would use Avid Hydralic brakes again. It's disappointing to lose confidence in a product and I'm loathe to say a product is a failure but as the saying goes, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you.

SRAM will no doubt recover from this but for the time being, they have a shitstorm to weather.

Sanny, I agree no one sets out to do this, in fact it could be described as business suicide if you did. But to launch what is going to be a very high profile product and to get it wrong in this manner.

Mind you TRP have issued a recall because if you accidentally apply the brakes with no pads/disc in, it happens in transit for instance, as I understand it, the brakes literally fall apart.

Seems to be a bit too much readiness to release without testing. Compare this to Campagnolo EPS which was on bikes for 3-4 years before it eventually was released as a purchasable product after being delayed because the system suffered as a result of being on the top of a Movistar team car in a storm. Likewise Di2 was doing the rounds long before anyone could actually use it.

Sounds they contracted some of the work out to Morton Thiokol.

I wasn't around at the time hydraulics took off on mountain bikes, were there any/many recalls and hassles back then?

No, not that I recall and I was wondering why it's the case with the road stuff.

Possibly that mtb discs tended to be quite overbuilt when they first came out (Think Hope C2s and original Shimano XT), especially compared to today's svelte ones. I wonder if when designing the road stuff, they simply haven't got the operating margins that we had in the original mtb kit and as such small differences have led to significant problems.

Does anyone know whether how the SRAM red hydro pistons in the levers compare with mtb ones? smaller? different orientation?

Re. Morton Thiokol, indeed, we shouldn't make light of such a subject and perhaps the comparison is rather extreme but it does highlight how at times 'schedule' appears to take precedence over 'safety', which in such a 'Health and Safety' mad world is hard to accept or understand.

SRAM have made an error, that much is clear. If the units were not ready for prodcution then they should not have been released.

My concern is now more a case of just what they intend to do about it, at the moment I am told one thing one day and then another thing the next. It really does appear as though they have no idea what to do.

SRAM wrote

look forward to getting you rolling as soon as possible

The cause of the problem is one thing but corrective action is another. I'd expect some information by now but still nothing.

You'd have thought the smart move would be to just take a elixir piston and fudge it into the road lever, with all the same seal kit etc. Probably not that easy though.

We can each make suggestions as to what we'd expect them to have done in the design process and I agree you'd expect Avid to have got it right with their knowledge of the systems (e.g. Elixir) but the fact remains a fix is required. I'd like to see SRAM make an announcement soon, something other than an apology, something more akin to what they are going to do about it and when.

[i]we are working hard to be sure that you as a consumer are made whole.[/i]

this is for those that spent an arm and a leg on being an early adopter?

The cause of the problem is one thing

Do we know the cause?

I remember early mtb hydros being flaky as anything but it was just kind of accepted- after all we were all used to cantis so anything was an improvement. But the riding's different, a failure on a road bike is far scarier than a failure on an mtb back then was imo.

From the SRAM site...

the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure

That's the symptom.

Why is it not holding pressure? Seals breaking, seals not up to the job (hardening/etc), etc?

After moaning/complaining [i](constructively I hope)[/i] about the lack of action this has just been received.

Update from SRAM:

SRAM Road Hydraulic Brake Recall - Replacement Plan

We would like to outline for you our replacement plan. The logistics of execution are being hammered out but are not complete. Our first priority is safety our second priority is to get you back out riding just as fast as we can with mechanical brakes, and then with the new generation of hydraulic as soon as it is ready.

Here is how we plan to handle the recall, and consumers should work through their chosen local dealer for replacement:

1. Through the customer’s chosen Dealer, SRAM will provide a mechanical brake system to replace the customer’s hydraulic rim or disc brakes.
2. SRAM also will provide to the customer an option of either receiving the new hydraulic braking system when the redesign is complete, or a check for EUR 150.
3. SRAM will provide a fair labor cost cash reimbursement to the Dealer for all installs.

Additional updates:

1. We are working hard to get replacement mechanical braking systems widely available in Europe, the US and Asia by January 15.
2. We expect the logistics for getting replacement product and reimbursement payments to be complete within two weeks. Given the global geography, there are differences in how we will need to execute. While we recommend that all customers use their local Dealer, the logistics will accommodate individuals choosing to install the replacement brakes themselves.
3. We continue to make progress on the hydraulic redesign. Our teams are working through the holidays on resolution. We anticipate a technical and production update on Monday January 15.

We apologize for the inconvenience and are trying to get you back on the road as quickly as possible.

That is the latest. Expect more on the 15th January, until then.....

Wow, that's going to be some cost to SRAM to replace hydro systems with mechanical though I guess at least there aren't too many out in the market.

It does look like they're trying pretty hard to sort things out without too much hassle to their customers.

Mechanical disks and levers as an interim solution doesn't sound like too bad an offer?

Sounds like a really good effort, though, I suppose with something like this it'd be reasonable to expect a full refund...

That is a very good considering some of the weasely efforts you hear about. Considering it's their reputation at stake I don't think they had much choice.

That's the symptom.
Why is it not holding pressure? Seals breaking, seals not up to the job (hardening/etc), etc?

I suspect it's a good enough explanation for most. If they'd said seals breaking then you could have said that was just a symptom too, and why are the seals braking, etc.

I'm affected, I bought a TCX with them on and I'm carrying on riding until it drops to -1C then I'll hand it back in to get the minging cable things added then go for a hydro replacement when they get off thier backsides and sort it out.

Cracking bike mind the TCX... 😀

Presumably when they mention a mechanical brake system (i.e. BB5 or 7) that presumably they'll throw in the double tap shifters too?! Doesn't seem mentioned specifically in their statement but I assume it'd have to be included.

150 Euros refund doesn't sound a huge amount as compensation for a £350 set of brakes/levers.

I was all up for these on my next build, hope the cost of all those recalls isn't reflected in the price of the next generation...

The £150 sounds like it's to make up the difference between hydro and mechanical.

A busy time at Sram
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2014/SRAM-Recalls-Derailleurs-for-Bicycles/

Magura have had low temperature problems in the past

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/Magura-USA-Recalls-Bicycle-Hydraulic-Disc-Brakes/