SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

[Closed] SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL - please help me solve...

49 Posts
33 Users
0 Reactions
112 Views
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I've some old model Deores.

They have been gutless for a month of so, now squeal like a pig with its knackers caught on barbed wire.

So far I have:

- cleaned pads and discs with muc-off by tooth brush.

- sanded pads and discs

No change.

- changed pads for new Shimano's I had in the toolbox.

MORE squealing, less bite.

Even worse. Now discs and pads are coated in noticeable black brake dust / feel slippery to finger.

Suggestions as I am about to chuck on some new pads - could I have cooked discs? Maybe leaky pistons? Sintered Shimano are sh*t?

They are under warranty, but I am dreading Rutland's lack of interest...


 
Posted : 25/06/2018 10:19 pm
Posts: 7076
Full Member
 

@Mods - should this be a sticky thread?

To match the leaky calipers?


 
Posted : 25/06/2018 10:28 pm
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

I've had this happen with a couple of different shimano brakes, usually the rear, I'm not sure what it is but I don't think there's a fix.


 
Posted : 25/06/2018 10:30 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

^thats what I suspected. I have tried *everything* - had given up on some 5-6 year old ones that did this, but wondered if there is a new 'fix'.

Time to see if Rutland will warranty...


 
Posted : 25/06/2018 10:49 pm
Posts: 9201
Full Member
 

Gt85 should sort it


 
Posted : 25/06/2018 10:56 pm
Posts: 417
Free Member
 

New rotors.

Ive had similar problem and new rotor fixed it.

Make sure u bed it in properly. Or it will glaze and squeal.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 5:38 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I had the same problem and the fix was to ditch the sintered for resin.....been ok since.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 7:31 am
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

Could be leaking pistons in the caliper:

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/help-my-brakes/


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:22 am
Posts: 479
Full Member
 

ime with shimano brakes is once the squeal sets in you need new rotors and pads. i had it once and i tried everything including dishwashering the disks.  i think the disk gets contaminated which contaminates the pads. never use a second-hand pad on a new disk.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:33 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Aye new pads and rotors. Worked for me anyhow. Think they just get to a point when they are unrecoverable. Particularly when the rotors looks discoloured.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:36 am
Posts: 3991
Full Member
 

Sounds like the leaking caliper/piston seal to me. Only option is to return them and get a replacement.I've had this happen to at least two sets of Deores now. When they die again I think I may just bite the bullet and get Hopes. The deores are great when they work but they seem to have a lifespan of about a year.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:37 am
Posts: 27
Free Member
 

make sure all the bolts are tight on caliper and rotor?
copper grease on the back of the pads? I did this years ago on a set of Maguras and it worked.
rough up the surface of the rotor with a bit of sandpaper?


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 10:06 am
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

Check for leaks carefully first: If there is a leak in the calipers it will trash any new pads quickly. Do a quick clean up first then hold the brakes on firmly for a few minutes and see if any new dampness appears.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 10:29 am
Posts: 7540
Full Member
 

Go to Fort William and do an uplift day.

After one run my brakes were as bitey as they've ever been and completely squeal free


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 10:39 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I had the same problem just recently and found a thread online suggesting cleaning pads thoroughly with hot water and neat Fairy liquid (rubbing pads together)... worked a treat !


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 11:52 am
Posts: 3834
Free Member
 

 
Posted : 26/06/2018 12:41 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I cleaned my rotors with cheap diet coke (i.e. brown phosphoric acid) to remove a layer of oxidation. I also tried sanding pads - no joy. New resin pads were OK though. To be fair I didn't do the control of new pads and no coke...


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 12:49 pm
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

ime with shimano brakes is once the squeal sets in you need new rotors and pads.

I did manage to rescue my rotors after the dreaded leaky seal problem. I scoured them thoroughly with cream cleaner, rinsed with boiling water, then dried them in the oven. It's definitely worth a shot as it doesn't really cost anything apart from a bit of your time. The pads were junk though.


 
Posted : 26/06/2018 2:32 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

OK, last chance. A new set of pads has arrived. Oven will be used tonight (that saved an old rotor many years ago for me) on the rotors.


 
Posted : 03/07/2018 10:37 am
Posts: 581
Free Member
 

Hmm good point about leaks. (Sorry OP for jumping in)

I have XT discs.  After the bike has been sitting a while they are squealy and weak. A good 20 minute thrash brings them back to life and they are fine the next day.  But they consistently return to squealy weak.  I also tried new pad/rotor (just on the back for diagnosis).  Leak sounds plausible.  On the other hand it seems strange that front and back seem to be affected in the same way and I haven't had to top them up or bleed in a few 100km aggressive riding.


 
Posted : 03/07/2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 499
Free Member
 

OP - did you try blowtorching the pads then giving them as little sand as well as dishwashering the discs?  That's worked for me in the past. BTW, I probably wouldn't inhale any of the smoke that comes off the pads!


 
Posted : 03/07/2018 10:59 pm
 pdw
Posts: 2206
Free Member
 

twowheels I had exactly the same, including the same reasoning about why it couldn't be a leak (both went together, no obvious loss of fluid).

Stick a bleed block wrapped in a paper towel in them and pull the lever gently with a rubber band. Leave for 12 hours, inspect paper, replace under warranty.


 
Posted : 04/07/2018 8:04 am
Posts: 7915
Free Member
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Success, and an experiment....

Disc as is, quick clean and new non Shimano pads = great.

Old, uncleaned disc on non Shimano pad = great

Old Shimano resin pads on old spares disc = squeal.

New non Shimano pads on the spare disc = great.

Old, old Shimano resin pads on any disc = squeal.

So the running theme is that it is Shimano resin pads - both almost totally worn and about 10 rides old.... FWIW all other pads are either Uberbike or Clarks.


 
Posted : 04/07/2018 9:21 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

So we are back to squeeeling - both with clarks and uberbike pads.

I also have discovered they *are* leaking - oily film on edge of pad backing, on one end of caliper and on frame below....

I was about to click buy on a new set of Magura MT4's, when I then discover that I need thicker Magura rotor's and a matchmaker clamp thingie for my dafty Shimano integrated ispec whatever of the bloody three iterations it is....

FFS shimano.


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 12:42 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

It will be the leaky o seal problem (although last time I mentioned that half the forum told me I was talking rubbish). I had a few calipers do exactly the same thing, no discernible loss of fluid but if the bike was left unused for anything over a week the brakes squealed like mad and had no power. 20 mins of hard braking seemed to cure it until the next time.

I tried everything, cleaning, sanding, new rotor, new pads, eventually always the same squeal.

Eventually I just bought some Magura MT2 and haven't touched my brakes since. I actually took a punt on some Chinese MT2 off ebay but they were spot on and came with new rotors. I sold my old shifter bought a used zee shifter with a clamp and sold the shimano levers.In all it didn't cost much more than £30. Money well spent.


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:07 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I am removing mine - a friend might have an old set I can borrow - and they are going back to Rutland for Warranty.

If they give me new ones, I am selling and buying Magura...


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:10 pm
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

Check the hose join to the callper - had a little leak there on the tripster that a clip of the hose and new olive sorted (new pads and a clean up too to be safe).


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:34 pm
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

Mine were smoking heavily after a pretty short descent which I've never seen before, but didn't squeal and stopped properly for the rest of the ride after. Few days later and they're back to squealing again! These are the very first 'good' xt brakes that I bought when they first came out 6 years ago or whatever so can't complain.


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:37 pm
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Spray rotors with brake cleaner and put a match to it. (wear protective gear don't try this at home always have adult supervision keep out of reach of children etc.)

Tip from my LBS and stopped my Shimano road brakes from honking.


 
Posted : 26/07/2018 2:13 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

It's back.
Last three rides I'm down on power and squealing again.

A few thoughts - a few rides before was Laggan, before that Ben Ledi. Perhaps I'm cooking pads or fluid or seals? See below for my pad (right) and Mrs_oab's on left. Both Shimano resin put in at same time...

https://flic.kr/p/2g4wUR7

So, do I dare go through the rigmarole and lies that is Rutland again or what...?

(Ps, we've four sets of Shimano in the household, three Deore and one Xt, before that three sets of SLX and XT. No issues until they were 5+ years old)


 
Posted : 28/05/2019 9:47 pm
 Yak
Posts: 6920
Full Member
 

Got to be seals again. I don't know Ben Ledi, but I know Laggan and it's not an obvious brake cooking spot. Maybe clean it all up and if it goes again it's seals and you are back into warranty faff.

The backing plate on your pad does look dusty/oily too.


 
Posted : 28/05/2019 11:32 pm
Posts: 3757
Full Member
 

Have you tried the o-ring fix mentioned above?


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 6:48 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Have you tried the o-ring fix mentioned above?

They are new calipers.


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 7:08 am
Posts: 507
Free Member
 

It's a regular occurance with Shimano brakes, sometimes even on brand new bikes. A few years back, I bought XTs to replace ancient Hope Mono Minis rather than doing a full rebuild, two years, two levers, and four leaking calipers later, i'd gone back to Hope for a set of Tech Races, and been trouble free ever since. All the parts were warrantied, but the faffing and uncertainty of how long before it happened again made it worth the swap.


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 7:12 am
Posts: 28475
Free Member
 

They are new calipers.

You should have sold them and gone for Maguras... 🙂

It does sound like you've been unlucky to get two bad ones in a row.


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 7:38 am
Posts: 10225
Free Member
 

Replace Shimano with a brake manufacturer who can make seals that hold fluid in on a more regular basis I reckon. I’d be looking at Sram Guides or Magura MT5’s I think.

I’ve had one set of deore’s which were ok ish (but not wildly powerful) and they went all squealy and lacking in power with very little use so I sold them and bought a pair of Guide r’s off eBay for £80 with a bleeding edge bleed kit. Had been used a few times before being replaced by Hope as the guy preferred them. I know a few people who have had leaky shimano brakes too.

I am Magura curious though next time I need brakes


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 8:23 am
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

one of left looks normal the right not so much.


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 8:34 am
Posts: 2440
Free Member
 

Was that not me Joe? 🙂

I've just sold the Hopes to try the new Shimano 4 pot brakes too! Fingers crossed eh?


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 8:55 am
Posts: 10225
Free Member
 

Ah yes, maybe it was John, they’re still going strong on a different hardtail I’ve built. Now with uberbike race matrix pads in them they’re really good!

Not sure I’d sell Hopes to go to Shimano though......


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 9:28 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I do think Magura is the answer.

Eldest_oab's new bike has them, add did some test bikes at the weekend. Great power, even better control. 5yr warranty.

Time to warranty these Shitmano's then and sell them as 'new'.


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 11:49 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

A question - is it particular models of Shimano brakes that have this issue?

Upping calipers to 4-pot Deores is one option.
Other option is Magura MT4 or Trail Sport.

I'm keen to have new with warranty on this one...


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 6:39 pm
Posts: 2645
Free Member
 

Sounds like you have done everything possible to sort this out . FWIW I had the exact same problem with Deore disc brakes front and rear at the same time on a bike . I kept changing pads , cleaning rotors but every time that I left the bike for a few days and jumped back on it the problem returned . 2 year warranty on them and mine went back and I replaced with SLX and the problem went away . I work in a bike shop so it was easy for me to upgrade it won't be an option that you can do probably . If you don't want to deal with Rutland Cycles any local bike shop will have a Madison account and will be able to handle your claim , albeit they will charge you unless you have a good relationship with them .


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 7:35 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Update - just had an email to say that Madison agree they are knackered.

Apparently they don't have any compatible calipers left ( 🤣🤣🤣 ) to replace them.

I'm getting an £87.50 refund....

TBF, the two year warranty is up in a couple of weeks.


 
Posted : 30/07/2019 9:30 pm
Posts: 10225
Free Member
 

Magura MT5 time?


 
Posted : 30/07/2019 9:55 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I've already bought a set of Deore 4-pots....


 
Posted : 30/07/2019 10:03 pm
Posts: 10474
Free Member
 

I used a chefs blowtorch to burn clean rotors and pads. Works a treat. Or at least did for me.


 
Posted : 30/07/2019 10:07 pm
Posts: 45504
Free Member
Topic starter
 

That's great. Until the caliper weeps again.


 
Posted : 30/07/2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 115
Full Member
 

4 pots came with my new bike (6 months ago) went through all the above new pads sintered resin, Uber Shimano, new rotors but still screeched like a banshee wet or dry all that solved it was changing to Hope. Bike shop sent the 4 pots back to Madison which were replaced and I now have a brand new set which I’m reluctant to use and even more reluctant to sell. To note I have not had this with any previous Shimano brakes just the wandering bite point


 
Posted : 31/07/2019 7:18 am
Posts: 10225
Free Member
 

Wandering bite point not being a particularly desirable trait in a brake either - a few times I’ve had a go on a mates SLX brake equipped bike and it’s scared the crap out of me when I’ve needed to brake and the lever suddenly pulls right to the bar and you have to let off and pull it again.

I’ll stick with my sram brakes that don’t do that - if they ever fail then Magura 4 pots are probably topping the list to try next.


 
Posted : 31/07/2019 8:22 am

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!