[Closed] Sportive vs Road Race. That was close.

That's bonkers.

What's really interesting though is this link from the road.cc page; I never knew Hora had a signature shoe!

http://road.cc/content/review/117873-vittoria-hora-evo-fluoro-shoes

[i] I never knew Hora had a signature shoe![/i]

he only wore them twice and then said he wanted something with less rebound.

Jesus that's crazy. How is being held up by like 1 minute on sportive going to cause you a big deal? That guy in the Kelme strip must have a death wish.

That is madness. What were those riders thinking? Someone could have been seriously hurt.

Kelme strip must have a death wish

Guy in the stripes is a complete bell end.

Blimey! The guy arguing with the marshal is the bell end.

Jesus that's crazy. How is being held up by like 1 minute on sportive going to cause you a big deal?

Far too many sportive riders seem to be under the impression that they are in some sort of race 🙄

What mrblobby said. Its why i don't want to ride a sportive & will stick to audaxing - plus its a hell of a lot cheaper.

Gosh, roadies know how to have fun eh? If it ain't bad enough sharing with vehicles.

Far too many sportive riders seem to be under the impression that they are in some sort of race

As evidenced by the fact one of the sportive riders when told "There's a race coming through" said "Yes, I know, I'm in it"

As evidenced by the fact one of the sportive riders when told "There's a race coming through" said "Yes, I know, I'm in it"

A proper LOL moment that 🙂 What a knob.

Vittoria Hora Evo Fluoro Shoes

I WANT those. Not the name thing- they are gorgeous. I could dance on the pedals in those 😀

Anywhere cheapish yet????????????

As evidenced by the fact one of the sportive riders when told "There's a race coming through" said "Yes, I know, I'm in it"

Its why i don't want to ride a sportive & will stick to audaxing - plus its a hell of a lot cheaper.

A choice between pretending its a race and pretending its not a race 🙂

My favourite bit was where one of the sportive riders claimed he was part of the race.

The Eastern Divisionals had a triathlon going on in the opposite direction on Sunday on part of the course, they all obeyed marshalls, and kept well left - not that they needed to, Joe Perret had us all in the gutter... We give Triathletes are hard time, but at least they can act upon basic instructions!

I heard a similar story from a Manchester Wheelers rider - their open cat (national open entry) road race that has a lead car with a flashing light, was on the same day as the Manchester 100 charity sportive. The sportive marshall at a minor crossroads who had been told of both events, stood in the road with hand out shouting 'stop' at the car with the flashing light...

What an infant.

"I don't want to argue with anyone else, I'm arguing with you". Brilliant!

I have marshalled a number of road races. A small proportion of people don't really believe they need to stop when you askthem to. When that happens it is absolutely gut-wrenching.

🙁

fricken cyclists 😈

Good job they don't have the Tour de France in Yorkshire 😀

Seems a bit daft to have 2 events sharing a road, particularly in that way.

That said Mr Kelme should have been wiped out!

Not sure about Yaarkshire but our local federation controls both sportive and road races, and it's still quite common for them to clash. Shouldn't cause a problem though, as sportive riders are just normal traffic (on an open road event) so should give way to the race.

Did I hear sheep around the [url=

mark[/url]?

In fairness to the chap that says'i'm part of it', maybe he got a bit confused given there were no other cyclists to be seen coming the other way, and he had no idea that another race was on the same route...

Just saying like...

bob_summers - Member
Shouldn't cause a problem though, as sportive riders are just normal traffic (on an open road event) so should give way to the race.

No, they are racing 😛

In fairness to the chap that says'i'm part of it', maybe he got a bit confused

shouty men in lycra being shouty..... 😀

I said this on road.cc so I might as well just repeat it here:

---

Not wanting to defend the sportive riders too much, but has anyone considered that they simply didn't realise there was another event on?

Imagine you are on an organised sportive and you see road signs saying [i]"Road Temporarily Closed for Cycling Event"[/i] or some such. It would not be entirely unreasonable to think that might be for the event you are doing and just carry on.

No excuse for ignoring the marshal of course, but it might explain the confusion.

Ultimately the organisers on both sides should have been aware of the other event and sorted things out between themselves, not left it to the marshals and mamils.

I've been on a sportive when part of the route was also being used that day by a race/event. The briefing at the start informed us what was going on. Of course some people think they know it all or forget but the signs were distinctly different to those used by the sportive so should have raised some suspicion even for the most forgetful rider. It wasn't a closed road event though so participants of both events were on the correct side of the white lines.

I think it's quite normal for events to share roads. Why those people thought it right to argue with the marshal stopping them I have no idea. I can see maybe there was some confusion with the signs except for the fact that someone was telling them to stop.

Even in major road races, such as Paris Roubaix, riders have to stop if instructed to do so, such as at a level crossing. It's almost funny that these people thought their event was the most important thing in the world.

Being fair to Mr Kelme, so many people had passed through that he just followed through like a sheep. Part of the pleasure of riding is turning the brain down a level or two.

Why those people thought it right to argue with the marshal stopping them I have no idea.

They were probably busy chasing a "gold" time standard 😉

It's almost funny that these people thought their event was the most important thing in the world.

But, but, but.....they're riding a [b][i][u]sportive[/u][/i][/b] donchaknow. That makes them like, you know, like [b]REAL[/b] cyclists. Far more real than anyone else, some of them even wear retro clothing to show how real they are. So much more real than you.

Sportive riders = Boring asshats*

*Yes, that is a massive generalisation. Sue me. Most of those that I meet are neo-roadies, who've all rushed out and bought full crabon fribe Fredvagens, Assos and Sidi just to show how in to it they are, when they only started cycling after Wiggo won the Tour. They're as bad as golfers.

traildog - Member
Being fair to Mr Kelme, so many people had passed through that he just followed through like a sheep. Part of the pleasure of riding is turning the brain down a level or two.

Not really, he rode past others that had pulled in, straight into the oncoming bunch. With the commotion going on, I'd expect a rider to be slightly MORE alert than one should be on an open road, not less.

This is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is that a local Road race in Bristol that has happened on the same weekend for about 50 years had to move their race because a sportive wanted to use the same roads on the same day. As the RR needed police permission and the sportive only had to inform the police the conflict was managed by not giving the RR permission...

Bit more detail emerging on Facebook, sounds like the sportive riders were not told of the road race.

The first I heard about the race was at a checkpoint a little further back down that road (there were three routes; 20+ 30ish and 60miles), and then saw them just after this turning as they sped past on the other side, but there was no mention at the start, so I'm guessing the organisers MIGHT not have known

Also..

The event gets police support with road closures at the start and St John's Ambulance.

So the sportive had road closures too and no knowledge of the race event. No wonder the sportive riders were a bit confused.

Yeah, if your not told there's a road race on it must be easy to miss a lead car with flashing lights and a 'race' board on top, a couple of motorcycle outriders, marshals standing in the road with high vis and flags and cyclists racing in a bunch!

Yeah, if your not told there's a road race on it must be easy to miss a lead car with flashing lights and a 'race' board on top, a couple of motorcycle outriders, marshals standing in the road with high vis and flags and cyclists racing in a bunch!

It's not too hard to get confused after a few hours riding, a bit tired and hungry, when a marshal tells you to stop as there's a bike race on and be absolutely convinced that he's talking about the sportive (after all, you think some cyclists believe sportives are races, and the marshal is probably a cyclist), so you carry on thinking the marshal has mistaken you for a member of the general public and is being a bit of a jobsworth anyway in trying to close the road completely for your sprotive, that makes no sense to you, after all every other marshal and sign so far has said to go this way, this marshal must be a bit confused or just wrong.

Having said that, no one comes out looking good after that argument!

Having said that, no one comes out looking good after that argument!

Yeah, I think there are many sides to this one. Riders were clearly, and understandably, confused. The race marshal was overly aggressive. But the overall organisation is really what led to this chaos in the first place.

They guy in the stripey get up, he isn't wearing a helmet. I've never seen a sportive that allows anyone to ride if they aren't wearing a helmet. I don't think he's part of either event and is just out to wind people up.

^ there might be something in that. He does seem to deliberately move into the centre of the road..

[quote=butcher ]The race marshal was overly aggressive.

What was he supposed to do when riders started ignoring his instructions and potentially causing a massive pile up?

That guy who rides right out in to the middle of the bunch.
Haven't I seen him somewhere before?

[img] ?1396293588[/img]

How about BC who did entries for both events making sure the two didn't coincide?

butcher » The race marshal was overly aggressive.

Is there a version with subtitles?

I need to check the details, but it seems the Sportive although listed seems to have 'skimmed' it's entry i.e listed it but didn't inform authorities, police etc. The full details are there somewhere.

racers when faced with sportive riders get on with it without a word. Sportive riders when faced with racers get all shouty.

Sportive rider that thinks he is in a race, absolute classic.

Exactly why I never ride sportives in this country, most of the participants have no idea how to ride and are a liability to themselves and others, If they joined clubs and were schooled in group riding (even if you don't race) the standard would be higher but at the moment it's mostly bellends in team kit.

That's my mate's brother in the photo racing in Team Cystic Fibrosis kit riding towards the camera, just to the left of the idiot in the stripes. Tho it looks like a near accident it wasn't anything close. He says he didn't even notice anything was wrong as his mind was on the race 🙂

None of the racers batted an eyelid.

The most depressing thing in all this is the outright elitism and snobbery being displayed.

[i]They're not "real cyclists" because they are only doing a sportive?. They should join a club, learn to ride and do a "proper" race.[/i]

Really?

I half expect that kind of bollocks from roadies, but I thought folk on a mountain biking forum might be a bit more familiar with the concept of just going out for a ride with your friends for fun.

Seems to me the motorbike marshall was on a hiding to nothing. His usual role is stopping oncoming cars, the first of which forms a de facto road block and the marshall's job is done. Then imagine a decent size group in a sportive, club ride, STW pootle or whatever. They aren't all paying full attention to what's on the other side of the road, why would you, you get flashy lights on all sorts of things from the RAC to bin lories. A couple of them then get obstructed/stopped/stop as requested by a bloke on a motorbike. (I've never done a road race, so I've never seen one of this particular tabard/bike marking outside of Tour of Britain and most folk won't be expecting to meet one in oncoming traffic.) The following sportive riders simply ride round the obstruction as if nothing has happened(it hasn't, to them). Motorbike marshall obviously gets loud and shouty at this point, but in reality a single motorbike riding into a wide group several abreast isn't an effective way of stopping them. After that it's just handbags.

I've never really grasped the anti-sportive thing either.

That bloke who got photographed falling off on box hill was vilified for being an unskilled overweight numpty but at least he was there doing it and enjoying himself.

The people who ignored the marshall in that video were a bit daft and could have caused a major problem but I wouldn't criticise them for being there riding.

That bloke who got photographed falling off on box hill was vilified for being an unskilled overweight numpty but at least he was there doing it and enjoying himself.

Yep that was equally depressing.

Fair enough, he made a very amusing and embarrassing fumble. He gets a bit of a ribbing and has the good grace to laugh about it himself. All good.

But to see fellow cyclists slagging him off for not being a "real cyclist" and having more than 2% body fat was just sad.

Anyway, the was the stripey bloke part of the sportive or not, given his lack of helmet?

Bloke arguing was not riding the sportive - he was the dad of one of the racers...

[url= http://road.cc/content/news/119457-race-v-sportive-video-marshal-clarifies-incident-details ]http://road.cc/content/news/119457-race-v-sportive-video-marshal-clarifies-incident-details[/url]

They're not "real cyclists" because they are only doing a sportive?. They should join a club, learn to ride and do a "proper" race.

That is a bit harsh. Aren't we just mostly just poking fun at the competitive dad types who enter sportives under the impression they are Wiggins and "race" for a fast time?

We even have riders in our road club who will chain gang a sportive, then after the event download the times into a spreadsheet and work out what "position" they came in. All very silly.

The most depressing thing in all this is the outright elitism and snobbery being displayed.

I half expect that kind of bollocks from the Judean People's Front , but I thought folk on a People's Front of Judea forum might be a bit more familiar with the concept of just going out for a ride with your friends for fun.

FTFY

more familiar with the concept of just going out for a ride with your friends for fun.

If only all sportive riders treated it as such 🙂

A couple of interesting clarifications on road.cc from the marshal doing the filming.

Turns out the shouty argumentative "54 races" guy WASN'T part of the sportive, he WAS indeed "part of the race" (watching his son)

http://road.cc/content/news/119457-race-v-sportive-video-marshal-clarifies-incident-details

If only all sportive riders treated it as such 🙂

Are those the only options? Get a license, join a club and race "properly", otherwise you should only ever pootle and transcend any notions of competitiveness?

I can be on a fun ride with my mates, but I might still want to get to the top/bottom of the hill before them. (Not that I do)

me: [i]Bloke arguing was not riding the sportive - he was the dad of one of the racers...

http://road.cc/content/news/119457-race-v-sportive-video-marshal-clarifies-incident-details
[/i]

GrahamS: [i]A couple of interesting clarifications on road.cc from the marshal doing the filming.

Turns out the shouty argumentative "54 races" guy WASN'T part of the sportive, he WAS indeed "part of the race" (watching his son)

http://road.cc/content/news/119457-race-v-sportive-video-marshal-clarifies-incident-details
[/i]

I don't know why I bother sometimes 😉

If you look closely about 1.50 onwards the guy in the Kelme top seems to have a clipless moment

Sorry wwaswas - I should have refreshed before posting 😀

From the article above:

British Cycling called on the government to act to ensure sportives are better co-ordinated so as not to clash with road races.

Now you can blame many things on the government, but this ain't down to them - and frankly I'd say organisation of sportives should be of no concern to national level government at all.

What they mean is "We want to government to force sportives to [s]give us money[/s] register with us"

http://road.cc/content/news/119437-british-cycling-calls-regulation-sportives-after-yorkshire-route-clash-video

(which is odd since this was apparently a BC listed sportive!)

Seems to me the motorbike marshall was on a hiding to nothing. His usual role is stopping oncoming cars, the first of which forms a de facto road block and the marshall's job is done. Then imagine a decent size group in a sportive, club ride, STW pootle or whatever. They aren't all paying full attention to what's on the other side of the road, why would you, you get flashy lights on all sorts of things from the RAC to bin lories. A couple of them then get obstructed/stopped/stop as requested by a bloke on a motorbike. (I've never done a road race, so I've never seen one of this particular tabard/bike marking outside of Tour of Britain and most folk won't be expecting to meet one in oncoming traffic.) The following sportive riders simply ride round the obstruction as if nothing has happened(it hasn't, to them). Motorbike marshall obviously gets loud and shouty at this point, but in reality a single motorbike riding into a wide group several abreast isn't an effective way of stopping them. After that it's just handbags.

As I commented elsewhere yesterday the video was not able to give the whole story (although the marshal's later comments help a little), but the RACE ORGANISERS should consider whether they deployed sufficient marshals/outriders to stop traffic and deal with any issues. One guy on a motorbike can only do so much...

Bloke arguing was not riding the sportive - he was the dad of one of the racers...

I remember doing the Manc - Blackpool charity ride for the 1st time and getting shouted and abused by fellow riders for.............................. Stopping at a red light!!!!! I was bamboozled as to what the rush was?? The ones that did jump the light, got a cheery "excuse me" as myself and the group I was with went by them further on up the road(feel free to swoon). Some folk are just plain odd.

[img] [/img]

Also:

[img] [/img]

so erm...what was he arguing about then?

I don't speak yarkshir but from what I can gather from the muffled audio he felt the marshal was being overly shouty.

Road riding is ridiculous.

GrahamS - Member
That bloke who got photographed falling off on box hill was vilified for being an unskilled overweight numpty but at least he was there doing it and enjoying himself.
Yep that was equally depressing.

Fair enough, he made a very amusing and embarrassing fumble. He gets a bit of a ribbing and has the good grace to laugh about it himself. All good.

But to see fellow cyclists slagging him off for not being a "real cyclist" and having more than 2% body fat was just sad.

botanybay - Member
Road riding is ridiculous.