[Closed] Sportive hell

Because roadies are all spazzos?

Because roadies are all spazzos?

I guess some roadies may have cerebral palsy, your point is?

Sportives are not races but should be closed road or rolling roadblocked.

weeksy - Member

Because roadies are all spazzos?

A spazzo roadie:

[img] [/img]

Rolling road block would seem reasonable, and safer than the mayhem they produce now. I imagine it would be expensive, or just put extremely clear signs up so other road users can divert?

I'd hate to think what would happen to a skittish horse being surprised by a load of cyclists coming around a blind bend.

Too much delusion and too little observation in those groups IME. Slightly scary to ride with (or towards 😯 ) them

[quote=AndyRT ]Rolling road block would seem reasonable, and safer than the mayhem they produce now.

Tricky given the length of road a sportive takes up - road races which use those tend to be far more compact. It also requires some sort of traffic order which they don't currently need.

Until somebody gets hurt

I think the bizarre thing is that residents on the routes block closed road events without considering that they are even more inconvenienced by having 1500 mamils waddling down the street en masse.
It'd be better for all to have the road closed and just plan ahead a little bit.
Local residents wanting to get their copy of the Mail on Sunday screwed up the Etape Cymru. Selfish twunts!

snake of riders in both directions

I thought that and it was because they placed a feed station at one end of a lane. Bikes going to and from. Not clever.

Dorset Bimble didn't have feed stations, but did deliberately go past at least 2 excellent pubs with fine cider. Very clever

It's about time to restrict entry to these things to e-bikes only. That way participants can keep up with traffic and not hold anyone up.

I asked this a bit ago: http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/road-sportives-should-we-ban-them

I think it was a fairly unanimous "yes!"

I did one on closed roads. Terrifying.

Oh, and my personal favourite: riding 1m behind me whilst I'm gingerly trying to get past the snake of riders in both directions, with other traffic and parked cars, leaving me with the choice of either letting him smash into the back of me or for me to drive into others for his benefit.

Why were you trying to overtake cyclists in an area that sounds massively unsuitable for overtaking? :-/

It is a national forest not a motorway. Going slowly and being patient so that others can enjoy their day out is just part of the deal if you chose to drive through it.

Spoken like a true grockle atrthanks.

Contrary to your point some roads are straight and vision is clear ( as the heathland presents only dips in the landscape as a threat to visibility), but as the peleton stretched for about 8 miles with no alternative routes I tried to make progress respecting the safety of all other road users. Is it somehow a faux pas to overtake slower vehicles when appropriate?

The issue with the cyclist riding far too close to me happened many miles later, as I did not wish to cause injury to other users of the road.

Anyone else fancy making assumptions that I'm an impatient, dangerous driver?

getting frustrated to the point of aggression.

there's no excuse for aggression. They're still road users who are less safe than you, if you can't accept that (even if they're behaving like numpties) review your anger management technique

Anyone else fancy making assumptions that I'm an impatient, dangerous driver?

I'd hate to think what would happen to a skittish horse being surprised by a load of cyclists coming around a blind bend.

https://twitter.com/forestcyclist/status/781800725806518272

[img] :large[/img]

Lets have special days when cars can use the roads.

Well done to the wiggle riders on that day. Not same riders I saw.

To answer others, nope not impatient and in regard to anger management; please reread my first post.

Go for a poo and treat yourself to a Horlicks, tomorrow's another day.

Not same riders I saw.

They may have been 🙂

Anyone doing the Velo Birmingham thing? Bargain at £75...

Is the simple answer to the OP's last question:

"Because it's mainly choppers that ride sportives"?

Its people riding bikes ffs calm yourself. I drive to work every morning with roads chock full of brain dead ****wits in cars but I dont spout off on the interwebs about banning them. Some people are ****s, oh well life goes on.

I didn't say anything about bans! I think etiquette lessons by the organiser.

I'd echo some of this. Saw some utterly baffling, and at times scary, riding from people on the "Tour de Test Valley" recently, including several riders turning across oncoming traffic (Self included) and causing emergency stops from said traffic (Self included). I was the third car, all evenly spaced and all travelling at around 50mph on a two lane, fairly straight stretch of A road with clear visibility. About four riders turned right, across the front of the leading car. There were no cars visible behind me. Lead car had to slam on the anchors, second car and self had to come to a needlessly sharp stop.

Presumably all so they could "win" their "race".

I think etiquette lessons by the organiser.

All the ones I've done(which is about 4) have had talks at the start about not riding like a bell end...some people cannot be helped!

Anyone doing the Velo Birmingham thing? Bargain at £75.

Was but then decided I would rather have £75

The people who bothered you whilst they where riding bikes will have got to the finish put their bike in a car and driven like bellends- speeding, driving too close, parking on pavement, texting, not indicating, knocking one out over Jeremy clarkeson etc.

Just people, the bicycles are incidental.

Not all Sportives are the same.
Is Fred Whitton a sportive? It's one of the best rides I've ever done.

Anyone doing the Velo Birmingham thing? Bargain at £75...

Was really interested but can't justify £75 on a race on a date that I won't know whether I can have as leave for another six months.....

can't justify £75 on a race

Would it be easier to spend £75 on a ride rather than a race?

mikertroid - Member
Was really interested but can't justify £75 on a race on a date that I won't know whether I can have as leave for another six months.....

You should look at Audax.

Sportives are a cruel joke aimed at mamils.

I don't think having your head up your arse is the exclusive domain of "roadies". All human beings clearly have that capability as witnessed by this forum and this thread.

It's about time they got serious and did them on closed roads, nobody seems to mind that every major city closes roads so that people an go jogging or celebrate a historical event that probably didn't happen why not for a good bike ride/race?

The thing with Sporives is, that they don't need closures, as they aren't races.

This - and very high numbers of entrants in some cases - is where the problem lies.

My personal opinion is that the promoters and any other bodies involved need to think carefully how the proceed. No matter how you try to avoid it, they are going to need safety legislation soon, which would be a shame for the sport as they are very important at grass roots. Beginning to ban events is a slippery slope, too.

I have concerns at the size of the fields and the standards of riding in some sportives these days, but now many accidents are there on these events per mile ridden? Do we need control - the cost of which will make such events unaffordable, thus making the point null and void - or do we need a sense of perspective?

Audax UK publish annual figures of incidents, their type and severity, and it is amazingly low given the miles ridden and the average age of the riders and their bikes. And don't tell me an audax isn't a "pseudo race" like a sportive. Have you seen how quick a 70 year old can ride when he thinks he'll be at the back of the queue in the next cafe control? 😉

The one big-group ride I did was a shortish audax. Atmosphere was fantastic, cake and massive feed-up at the end was great.

Even in this though there was at least one rider in my group who (admittedly on a fixie for 200km 😯 ) was doing everything to keep going - cutting into traffic at junctions, using paths round junctions etc. We were nowhere near the front and he didn't seem to be worried about his "placing" but his riding at pich points was pretty questionable and I reckon would make nearby drivers fairly nervous/hostile

vincienup is Maureen Holding and I claim my five pounds.

vincienup is Maureen Holding and I [s]claim my five pounds[/s] tug my forelock, know my place and will never venture into the forest again

Sportives are a cruel joke aimed at mamils.

Increasingly true epic.

Each to their own, but can't see the appeal of paying to ride with lots of other people. Used to work with a lot of Bokkers who were constantly nagging me to ride the etape or the Cape Argus to which I replied, "sure, any time except during the events."

A bit like London marathon. Ok for a one-off but much better to pay a fiver to the LDWA and have a nice 30 mile XC run with a plate of beans and toast at the end

Oddly my last HIM-distance tri was in the New Forest. And I asked myself during the rather unpleasant swim, "why have I paid money to swim in a dirty river, with lots of jelly fish and surrounded by lots of other people?" The ride was pretty crowded too!!

MoreCashThanDash - Member
...Have you seen how quick a 70 year old can ride when he thinks he'll be at the back of the queue in the next cafe control?...

Sprung... 🙂

but can't see the appeal of paying to ride with lots of other people.

As I said "each to ther own" - but no, the idea paying to ride on crowded roads (plus traffic) doesn't appeal, correct.

As I said "each to ther own" - but no, the idea paying to ride on crowded roads (plus traffic) doesn't appeal, correct.

Yeah, but then you also mentioned L'Etape - I've not done it, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't run on closed roads. I've done a few Spanish sportives, and while expensive and not something I'd want to do every week, they are fun with a good atmosphere, and a nice reason to try some different routes away from home.

Yeah, but then you also mentioned L'Etape - I've not done it, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't run on closed roads.

Closed road sportives just removes the bellend drivers. Unfortunately it also increases the bellendery of some of the riders who treat it more as a race, feel much less need to look or indicate and have very little race etiquette.

I did Etape du Tour and found it incredibly frustrating attempting to ride in groups where there was zero attempt to actually work together - someone would hit the front, drill it for 3 minutes or so at 25mph then gradually the speed would go down, down, down until someone mid pack would get bored at the concertina effect of it all, swing wildly out of line, smash it up to the front and the whole train would jump on his wheel.

Reapeat ad infinitum.

In one of these wild swings out of line, a rider took out a friend of mine (in another group, I was nowhere near it) but she broke her new carbon fibre bike. The guy who took her out never even stopped.

The best Sportive I've ridden was the Philippe Gilbert one in Belgium, the riding standards over there are SO much better. That was on open roads but with motorcycle outriders and the group riding is amazing. Although you do get bollocked in Flemish for any transgressions.

As someone who has previously enjoyed a number of both good and bad events, the trouble seems to be that it has become such a large money making cash-cow, that the organisers do not limit numbers and few have marshals at important junctions or crossings anymore. As the market gets busier, standards seem to have dropped.

I note that people above are saying they should be closed road, the trouble is that many of those that were, have stopped or no longer run as the NIMBYS will not have the road closures. The brilliant Etape Cymru suffered this fate, one of the things made it stand out was being able to ride down a great Welsh hill at 45mph knowing that you weren't around traffic.

There still some great events, the Dragon Devil, Fred Whitton etc, that are a real test, in beautiful scenery and because they are challenging tend to attract better riders. I also have some good local events where numbers are restricted to 500 and the route is great as it uses local knowledge and the feed stations are at schools or rugby clubs, giving funds back.

On the flip side, there are a lot of companies now, where you pay £50, ride a very uninspiring route, and are surrounded by people who have never been taught how to ride in a group or any real road craft and think because they have paid there money they have a right to use the road how they see fit. There are also too many organisers that just see £ signs and have little regard for the local road network or other road users.

Adding to my comment above and reading Crazy-Legs too, i'd definitely recommend travelling over to the continent as it can often be as cheap or cheaper than UK.

Some of the longer distance or interesting UK sportives can be £75-100 to enter now. Yet the Paris- Roubaix last year was 30 Euros or thereabouts and only a 90 minute drive on the other side, and the ferry return was about £90 divided between four of us.

There was a big Sportive passing through the Surrey countryside y'day. Great to see so many obviously non-regular cyclists out having a good time. However, there were a few who seemed to think it was the Le Tour and the roads were closed, with some quite frankly dangerous manoeuvres. Almost as bad as impatient fellow drivers beeping their horns at me as I evidently was not making quick enough progress past loads of inexperienced riders on country lanes and blind bends. The number so riders was mind boggling and I'm surprised there were no accidents.

There is a general issue with group riding these days, the sport has become so popular lots more people are riding decent mileages but not going through the traditional club scene. Not everything about the traditional clue scene is/was good but it did teach you how to ride in groups. And traditional roadie group rides are actually easier to be part of (everyone running at a similar pace, familiar people, familiar roads etc.).
A sportive is like the worst possible scenario for group riding (big groups, different speeds, strangers, strange roads, big egos), it needs a lot of focus to stay safe even for an experienced club roadie but you throw someone new to road cycling into that mix and it's asking for accidents.
I'm pro-sportive (and pro-audax) but I tend to just ride with a couple of people when doing them and assume every stranger is going to do something dangerous and give them far more room than I'd give a club mate.

Did the Etape 180km in London the weekend before and it was the most dangerous event I have ever been involved in. The first and last sportive I will do.

I have honestly felt safer racing DH bikes through rock gardens at 30mph, the standard of riding and complete lack of common sense / respect for other riders was breathtaking.

4 very near crashes from being cut up without warning, and then having to hop over 2 riders who crashed in front and run out into the grass I was getting worried!

The disgusting behavour of riders along the route was eye opening - openly urinating by the side of the road, urinating on walls and on houses in villages, dropping gel and food litter, jumping red lights, cutting up pedestrians on crossings, cutting up motorists, riding 5 abreast

It was on open roads, and I saw no real support / policing, just a marshal next to a road junction from time to time.

After 60km I'd had enough of being associated with it, ditched my plate and transponder and dropped back to support my missus.

We then made it all the way round, only for her to get taken out in the last 1km by another rider who suddenly hopped up onto the segregated cycle lane we were riding on in front of her, causing an over the bars crash, nasty shoulder injury, torn saddle, first aid and a trip to the hospital to get x-ray.

No apology and he disappeared very quickly at the finish line...

I was driving the other direction to the Evans sportive along the a25 yesterday. Within about 5 miles along the a25 I had 3 close calls with oncoming traffic over taking cyclists and then having to squash back in amongst them to avoid a head on with me.
Personally I don't see the appeal to it at all and the roads are far too busy around here to be safe.

I was driving the other direction to the Evans sportive along the a25 yesterday. Within about 5 miles along the a25 I had 3 close calls with oncoming traffic over taking cyclists and then having to squash back in amongst them to avoid a head on with me.

That's down to bad driving rather than the cyclists though, surely? (Sorry, THEIR bad driving in doing dangerous overtakes, not yours!)

Yeah that's what I'm saying, it's too dangerous. Too many people on the roads all trying to get to their destinations as fast as possible.

along the a25

There's your problem, right there. It was shit to drive and/or ride along when I lived down there, and I left 16 years ago. Any organiser sending an event along there needs their head examining.

Cycling for me at its most basic level is about freedom of movement, so whilst I appreciate the appeal of sportives to people and anything that gets people on bikes is a good thing, paying to ride unless its exceptional (RL say) is not for me.
Theres also a question about the commercial nature of these events and way they associate themselves to charities without actually giving any money that needs regulating.

All the OP is suggesting is that cyclists obey the rules of the road - which unless the road is a closed road they should. Consideration, due care and attention is all that is required. Some were clearly not doing so when the OP was there. There is nothing in his post to suggest he was not behaving appropriately.

People can be idiots. Some people happened to be on bikes. Some people on bikes are idiots. People on bikes are not automatically in the right.

Captainflasheart

Would it be easier to spend £75 on a ride rather than a race?

Shows how much I know of the road scene! £75 for a ride? Might start paying myself that each time I head out!!

Epicyclo

should look at Audax.
Sportives are a cruel joke aimed at mamils.

Might research that then!

Not a roadie by any stretch but occasionally I find it fun. Some of the above stories (esher) sound horrendous though.

I've only ever done one sportive, the first Bealach na Bah.

Can't complain about the organisation or the riders, but I was a bit naive back then.

I thought a sportive was more in the line of a personal challenge than a race, but a lot of the riders looked very race oriented to me which spoiled the feel of it until they disappeared into the distance. There were however lots of people who did treat it in a more relaxed manner, after all, we just nominated our expected times, so there was no need for urgency unless you'd been a bit optimistic.

It's a great ride and I did it in plenty time, but I found the imperative to keep moving annoying because there's lots of places on that route that merit a decent stop, not to mention the tempting trails off to the side.

Too restrictive for me and I've never done another, but maybe turning up to ride the Bealach on a singlespeed was not my smartest decision. 🙂

That is basically my view of sportives; too restrictive. Done a couple, mostly recently in France (which was nice). And a lovely Norfolk one.

We have loads of them around us, both wiggle and Evans. Both off road and on road. Three hundred people on narrow country lanes with no idea of road craft. Having said that, they're not that much worse than the big clubs in packs of 50, all wearing the same top, and all acting like bellends.

Road cycling to me is getting out there and exploring. If you see a new road, or feel fine after a certain distance, change your plan. Discover the country. Explore.

I'm lucky I live in a quiet part of the south east. It's incredible rural one side of the river. The other side is more popular, but still busyish If I lived in a city, I may be more tempted to get out and do sportives, and I may not have the skills on country lanes. Also, city cycling probably makes you more assertive and aggressive than you need to be out here.

Epic, changing the subject slightly, but I've done the route of the Bealach sportive and if anything is epic it's that. Just thinking about it makes want to go back. Kudos for doing that on a SS!

Another one in Surrey yesterday going through peaslake. Started the ride at 11 with them riding through and they were still going through at 5!

Must be the biggest cash cow in cycling. With the sort of numbers and money being made I don't see them stopping anytime soon.

Great to see people out but can understand locals frustration.

Not sure why I'd ever pay that sort of money to ride on a public road, not as if it is even social!

Great to see people out but can understand locals frustration.

For a couple of days a year and a couple of roads in a local area ? It's hardly like they're closing the M4 for a month.

In Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World', the population was conditioned from birth to enjoy being in the countryside.

However, the problem with that was that the people were not spending money. So they modified the conditioning to make people enjoy activities in the countryside which they had to pay for, like golf.

There's no mention of sportives in 'Brave New World', but maybe Huxley felt that suggesting that people would pay large amounts of money to cycle on roads which they could already use for free, would be pushing the bounds of credibility.

The problem being that it isn't a couple of days a year, it's once or twice a month, and it is a massive pain. I'm also sympathetic to locals.

There we also so many houses with for sale signs. Maybe the two things are linked?!

The roads of south west London are chock full of cars driving up from Surrey, day in day out. So I have little time for those who want to prevent cyclists enjoying the country side at weekends

Here's an alternative perspective on one particular sportive. I've only done a few of these over the years, mostly quite long ones and have (only rarely) ridden with club groups.
At the end of May this year I rode the first Tour of the Highlands 3 day sportive. Limited to 200 riders for days 1 & 3, several hundred more riders joined the middle day for the classic 3 Pistes route. Happily, pretty much all of the riders doing the full 3 days were thoroughly experienced in both riding and being in groups, so discipline was generally excellent. No shortage of respect from everyone around but I guess this was a side effect of the tougher nature of the challenge, which seems to appeal to hardier folk. The atmosphere was enthusiastic and supportive; I guess most folk there were keenly aware of the extent of the challenge and that being a selfish dick would not be the best tactic.
There was plenty of marshalling, quiet roads and great event support; all shows it can be done. The event started early each day, had a carefully staged set of group starts of 20-30 riders split by several minutes, so no clogging of A roads.
One wee bonus- the whole 3 day thing doesn't cost much more than some one day events you're discussing. I guess it's huge demand and business combining; if you want away from that, maybe try events elsewhere..?
I thoroughly enjoyed this extended weekend and even the busier middle day had a surprising lack of bell ends, judging by others' experiences described here.
Just don't sign up for the Etape Caledonia expecting a pleasant bimble through the mountains. 5000 riders are definitely too many!

Just did the Highland 100 at the weekend around the south of Loch Ness. It was organised as an unofficial audax by Velocity the local bike cafe in Inverness. They'll have it official for the next one I've heard.

£5 got us a coffee at the start and coffee and cake at the end and lots of great scenery.

Some lovely very fast downhills to rest on too - can you guess the wee snag there? 🙂

I managed to ride into the back of another rider on an audax yesterday, so they aren't completely immune from muppetry (it was entirely my fault). Luckily the rider I hit was fine and not angry with me, first time I've ever crashed a road bike!

Excellent array of food at halfway and the end, and perfect weather 🙂

£5 got us a coffee at the start and coffee and cake at the end and lots of great scenery.
Some lovely very fast downhills to rest on too - can you guess the wee snag there?

If you'd paid £35 for that route on a sportive you'd have got an uplift service included for the price?