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I'd have loved to be a fly in the wall at Spesh HQ over the last couple of days. Hopefully the outcome will be that they avoid behaving like bullying corporate bellends in the future. I'm rather partial to their stuff and it would be a pity if it became as socially unacceptable as a Livestrong jersey.
On the plus side, at least they'll be immortalised as a case study in dozens marketing and PR textbooks.
Apart from a few nerdy self appointed 'guardians of the spirit of cycling' nobody actually gives a shit about this though.
[quote=grum ]Apart from a few nerdy self appointed 'guardians of the spirit of cycling' nobody actually gives a shit about this though.
It has given a few Specialized-haterz a new stick to beat them with, which is why I have to laugh at most of these folk saying they'll never buy anything from Specialized again. It was the same when Specialized launched their fatbike a few months back - MTBR Fatbike forum was full of comments about how that was "ruining" the spirit of fatbiking 🙄 Meanwhile, all the haterz will be searching around for CRC/Wiggle/Merlin discount codes, increasing the profits of big companies and putting the wee guy on the corner (maybe with a nice cafe in his bike shop) out of business.
It has given a few Specialized-haterz a new stick blah blah blah blah
😆 Excellent blowharding!! Chapeau.
[quote=grum said]Apart from a few nerdy self appointed 'guardians of the spirit of cycling' nobody actually gives a shit about this though.
Yeah - you keep coming on this thread to tell us just how much you don't give a shit.
That not what I said - I said people in general don't give a shit about this. Someone suggested that this might really hurt Specialized - I think that's massively overestimating the importance of opinions on twitter and internet bike forums.
There's a whole world of people who buy bikes who don't have the slightest interest in stuff like this.
The funny thing is I'm not even really defending Specialized - I don't really agree with their stance. I just think this is a massive bandwagon and people are buying into the narrative of the brave war veteran cafe owner war veteran war veteran war veteran fighting courageously against the evil corporate giant, maaaaaan. I suspect lots of the outraged people will end up buying Specialized gear at some point too.
Apart from a few nerdy self appointed 'guardians of the spirit of cycling' nobody actually gives a shit about this though.
I thought it was pretty shitty behaviour and like a sad nerdy git I posted on specialised Facebook page to let them know. I'm not a guardian of the spirit of cycling, I've had a specialised Roubaix for about 6 years which I like a lot so hardly a specialised hater either. Just thought it was poor form to be going after this guy and used an avenue open to me where my voice could form part of a larger collective to make it known to them.
I have no interest in seeing specialized damaged in the long term by any of this, they are a global corporation and it's in a lot of peoples interests that they continue to thrive and do well, from the senior management right down to the fellas making a living from flogging their bikes. I think it's important that these companies thrive, but they should do so in a way that is socially acceptable.
[edit]
The war veteran status of the bike shop guy doesn't really interest me either. For me it's really less about the little guy and more about asking the big guy to try and go about their business without being such a dick.
if this doesn't matter, why do specialized spend (I assume) a f*ck-ton on marketing/their company image? Why do they release vids like this one:
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Video-Matt-Hunter-Loose-in-Chile-2013.html ]http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Video-Matt-Hunter-Loose-in-Chile-2013.html[/url]
It's because they believe that brand image matters in the fickle world of biking.
They are either going to find out that it doesn't matter after all - being outed as top-level bellends will have no impact on their bottom line. In which case they have wasted rather a lot of time/money/effort on sponsoring riders, events etc.
Or, they are going to confirm what they suspected: that it does really matter, and they're going to have to invest quite a lot of cash in rebuilding their tarnished image.
I was never really a potential customer of theirs anyway - but that's mostly to do with their pricing vs Canyon and the like. However, it's really interesting to see the potential of a company being held to account by it's customers because of their corporate behavior rather than their products, pricing etc.
You're dreaming barfink.
Two brands that'll never buy again:
Endura- Crap quality
Specialized - souless products
The corporate muscling thing is additional.
Grim has a point there is a whole world of people who buy bikes who have no interest in cycling or it's history they are specializeds target market in many ways. Unfortunately for specialized their is a whole world of cyclists who either by nature or affection do view cycling as a group activity with shared values . They tend to want to defend that culture and appear pretty motivated to get off their bottoms and type stuff on the internet.
The campaign has a wider importance in an age when governments chose not to govern commerce and the law is geared to the advantage of the well resourced corporation the only true holding to account is reputational via social media and the like.
I wonder how different this thread might be if Spesh had a small bike shop in the Peak District in their sights.
cynic-al - Member
You're dreaming barfink.
I didn't get a call from their Chairman when my forks were recalled (although they dealt with it very well). I doubt the guy in Canada would have got the call if Spesh hadn't been very worried indeed by the implications of all this.
For what it's worth, I blame their marketing department. A brand as big as this should have a tight grip on what the legal people and everyone else in their international subsidiaries are up to, and I think it is extremely unlikely that they'd have let the letter go out untamed if they had.
cynic-al - MemberYou're dreaming barfink.
'bout what?
Specialized don't spend money on maintaining their brand image? And it will be interesting whether this has an effect on the bottom line or not? Or that I'd rather have a canyon than a Spesh anyway?
Or do you just disagree in a generic....3 word kinda way?
I wonder how different this thread might be if Spesh had a small bike shop in the Peak District in their sights.
Wouldn't and can't happen. US patents don't apply here, outside North America. Which is why all the Euro brands use the Horst Link.... they don't have to pay for it.
It was more of a hypothetical comment PP, ie. if something like this happened closer to home, the tone may be different.
Wouldn't and can't happen
Could and can happen, you may want to check out the trademark registration EU002931533 😉
The funny thing is I'm not even really defending Specialized - I don't really agree with their stance. I just think this is a massive bandwagon and people are buying into the narrative of the brave war veteran cafe owner war veteran war veteran war veteran fighting courageously against the evil corporate giant, maaaaaan.
I think you're over-reacting to a headline.
Most people just know the difference between right and wrong, unless they work for Specialized perhaps (or own their bikes).
The STW account of this (on the front page) is awful. An apologist piece for $pesh which harps on about this chaps wheels. Barely a mention of the fact that it's a cafe nor that they offered to rename the wheels very early on in the proceedings. ASI should make $pesh remove the Roubaix from Canada just for being liberty taking twunts.
wrecker - MemberThe STW account of this (on the front page) is awful. An apologist piece for $pesh which harps on about this chaps wheels. Barely a mention of the fact that it's a cafe nor that they offered to rename the wheels very early on in the proceedings. ASI should make $pesh remove the Roubaix from Canada just for being liberty taking twunts.
They are just stating the facts.
Apart from the selective quoting of the trademark text from their own link.
Bicycles, bicycle frames, and bicycle components, namely bicycle handlebars, bicycle front fork, and bicycle tires.
becomes
Bicycles, bicycle frames, and bicycle components
in the article, suggesting that a quick search would have warned him against making wheels with the Roubaix name, which of course it doesn't specifically.
wrecker - Member
The STW account of this (on the front page) is awful. An apologist piece for $pesh which harps on about this chaps wheels. Barely a mention of the fact that it's a cafe nor that they offered to rename the wheels very early on in the proceedings. ASI should make $pesh remove the Roubaix from Canada just for being liberty taking twunts.
Ooooh, the rage! Do you get this angry about every trade mark dispute, or just those that get extensive coverage on your chosen social media outlets?
Seems like probably the most balanced article i've read on the whole thing.
The whole thing would never have happened if the Specialized statement…
"We win by working in a highly collaborative and transparent, non-corporate and non-political environment with a mission to:
Create a culture that attracts, develops and retains the best people on the planet
Design and build the best bikes and equipment in the world
Foster social and environmental responsibility in the world in which we live"
…was written on the wall of their legal department, rather than just a load of puff on their website.
Hilarious. Just hilarious.
http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/battle-of-roubaix-treaty-announced/
Is that article for real.
Commenting on places names like Worcestershire sauce and marin bijes is total bikx as specialized are not associated with roubaix in any way other than a name on a frame.
As for the rest of the article err just odd
The whole furore was odd!
Thank god that was over. I was considering looking for a 2nd hand Enduro carbon frame to replace my Tracer but would have felt awful looking like I supported the fascist bully boys.
Phew.
All this was about was the perfect storm combining:
Roubaix's history and mystique in cycling legend.
Large corporation seen as bullying a small shop owner.
War vet
Ability of social media to allow (us) ordinary people to participate in the fun of poking at Specialized as they have history of picking on small businesses (whether right or wrong and just like other large companies).
The public reaction was taken seriously by Specialized and ASI hence the final outcome. However without the social media explosion the outcome would have been different and Specialized would have squished the little guy.
Of course you will now see established web sites begin to write 'balanced articles' scribed in such a way as not to offend the big players who provide the freebies. 🙂
Hey DezB & Kimbers....tell ya what's funnier, the rubber shock absorbers in forks and seat-stays, connected by high modulus carbon links thus directing the majority of the shock force erm, along the tube??
Hence bikes, not aircraft - I've always hated Specialized bikes, can't bring myself to even look at that pig-ugly...what was it called 'intelligent rear shock system', or 'reactive',...I forget, but it placed the rear sus next to the seat stay. Like I said, pig-ugly.
Never even want to hear the name again, let's talk about in-house hand-crafted bikes as opposed to mass-produced 'tat'.
Erm......................my old rocky mountain then 🙄
oh, and this company?
http://www.colnago.com/m10s/ oh god, something has just happened 😯
The article is a bit odd it strives to appear balanced but appears to selectively change reality to make it seem that specialized ever had a leg to stand on. The quoted specialized trademark names the bike components specified and clearly does not cover wheels. The stw article suggests the opposite to imply the caffe owner wheelbuilder was careless and brought things on himself . If the writer is going to do that they should at least explain where thier different version of the trademark comes from. The use of "namely" followed by a list in the originally quoted description creates an exhaustive list not a wide category with some illustrations.
The article is a bit odd
Just a bit.
the bicycle company wrote the shop
Was it was written by an American?
[i]Was it was written by an American? [/i]
no, 'cos they'd have written 'reached out to' if they were.
Can I just cascade down to you "that reached out to" is international corporate speak for wrote to not uniquely American .
Am I being totally thick?
It's a town name
You can't have rights to that
Dave Hinde. End of thread
Am I being totally thick?
based on the below, yes.
It's a town nameYou can't have rights to that
Its a word, you can.
The whole furore was odd!
Agreed. Like I already said the Cafe owner did exactly what I would have done and used it as marketing. It worked, and we were all [s]suckered into[/s] part of it. 🙂
Never even want to hear the name again, let's talk about in-house hand-crafted bikes as opposed to mass-produced 'tat'.
Erm......................my old rocky mountain then
oh, and this company?
http://www.colnago.com/m10s/ oh god, something has just happened
[url= http://sg.rodalink.com/support/colnago-warranty-information ]Colnago 2 year Warranty[/url]
[url= http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/General%20Warranty.pdf ]Specialized limited lifetime warranty[/url]
Nice to know where the tat is, and who can back their product up properly, isn't it?
Give me a big brand any time
Just saying, like... 🙂
jools182 - As I hold the copyright for being totally thick you now owe me one million-zillion pounds.
I think we have the first public announcement from Specialized on this issue in that un-atrributed front page article. I wonder how many other places that will appear with the implication that it is written by a journalist.
Ooooh, the rage! Do you get this angry about every trade mark dispute, or just those that get extensive coverage on your chosen social media outlets?
I'm not angry and I don't have any chosen social media outlets.
$pesh rider perchance?
I think the best point to take away from this whole sorry episode is as follows:
"If you're gonna wave your willy around, check that it's actually your willy you're waving first!
😉
I hope Spesh paid for that front page ad.
Love Tubs - Member
Hey DezB & Kimbers....tell ya what's funnier, the rubber shock absorbers in forks and seat-stays, connected by high modulus carbon links thus directing the majority of the shock force erm, along the tube??
Much as I love sticking the boot in whilst the [s]other man's[/s] [i]international bike company's [/i]down, you're talking bollox.
The CFRP forms a 'S' shaped spring in the fork/seatstays, which can compress/extend. The elastomer insert isn't suppourting your weight (much, it'll take a fraction), it's there to dampen the spring effect. CFRP has relatively low loss factor (damping) so an undamped version would vibrate/oscilate over cobbles, rather than absorb the energy.
Canyon have been doing something similar with the VCLS CFRP seatposts, ading bassalt fibres which have a greater loss factor, so they can make posts with lots of movement, that don't oscilate like a Ti post when pedaling.
Which is why Pinarello's bike design really is bolox, and ugly (and why steel/ti feel springy, but CFRP feels 'dead')!
I think we have the first public announcement from Specialized on this issue in that un-atrributed front page article.
appartently its written by some guy from Albuquerque
Via Twitter.
@iamspecialized
Local shops are so important to us & the industry. Glad we found a solution with @CafRoubaix & will take this experience to heart.
They've also broken their silence on FB - though I'm not about to link to their FB page here. There is a video of Mike Sinyard visiting Dan in his shop to apologise - he doesn't half look like he doesn't want to be there! Good on him for going to that length, but to be honest he was forced to do it, and they will be judged on whether they change their litigation policy in future, not on how well they apologise now. Do the right thing Specialized and sack half your lawyers tomorrow (you know just where to start).
I love the way they're spinning a humiliating climbdown following pressure from the owner of the trademark into finding a solution.
Saw that video this morning. Mike really didn't look like a happy bunny. I also think Dan would have him in a fight.
Video is a bit cringeworthy. But fair enough.
Glad you knew what he was on about TINAS.
Man-hug at the end shows off the Cafe-Roubaix wheels nicely, Genius !
They can't help themselves, can they?
[url= http://ridingagainstthegrain.com/2013/12/12/specialized-threatens-another-small-business-epix-gear/ ]http://ridingagainstthegrain.com/2013/12/12/specialized-threatens-another-small-business-epix-gear/[/url]