[Closed] Specialized threaten to sue over Roubaix name!

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smell_it - Member

To simply ignore one dick move just because there are many other dick moves seems pretty pathetic. Akin to saying 'ah fek, it's only like i've punched one girlfriend, there are plenty of dicks that have punched all their girlfriends, i'm a real catch!'.

That is a pretty ridiculous comparison- it's not ignoring one because there's others, it's about obsessing about a relatively one when there's others that are worse. Perspective, in other words, rather than arbitrarily picking one thing to be furious about because it's on the internet.

I don't buy stuff from Amazon or Nestle, and always eat free range eggs - is it okay for me to have an opinion about this, as long as I don't get 'furious' or 'obsessive'?

Apparently not.

It's better to take perspective lessons from people getting angry about stuff other people are getting angry about.....

Heh, I'm not at all angry, just bewildered, that's why I asked the question. It all feels rather Kony 2012.

[quote=clubber ] no matter how much some people refuse or don't want to believe it, there is a cycling community
Biggest LOL of the day

Specialized's business practices are murky at best. Putting aside the numerous aggressive litigious acts they've undertaken, there are many stories of how badly they treat dealers (in the US at least). It doesn't take much digging to uncover the stories.

For eg.

Bell Sports alleges that Specialized threatened to withhold high-end bicycle inventory from dealers carrying Giro cycling shoes and that some dealers were told they would not receive their year-end purchase volume incentives or manufacturer rebates if they continued to sell Giro cycling shoes. As a result, Specialized dealers who carry Giro shoes have canceled existing orders, retracted on verbal product orders or asked Giro to take back inventory on their shelves, the suit documents stated.

Wednesday, February 01, 2006

Stumptown Showdown: Specialized ™ Threatens Mountain Cycle with Lawsuit
Portland, OR—Specialized Bicycle Components is threatening legal action against Mountain Cycle, claiming the Portland, Oregon, manufacturer’s Stumptown cyclocross bike, now in it’s third year of production, infringes on the trademark Specialized holds on its Stumpjumper mountain bike.

Specialized also has defended its trademarks. In 2004 the Vancouver, British Columbia, titanium frame manufacturer previously known as Epic Bicycles was forced to change its name to Evereti Biycles in the face of legal pressure from Specialized, which has another full suspension model called Epic.

Speedplay went after a guy who was selling bearing rebuild kits on eBay. Massive thread on Weight Weenies about it.

[quote=Northwind said]You think that's different?
Until you provide an example of a company I should be boycotting in a marketplace where there are other companies providing a direct equivalent such that it makes no difference to me to boycott them, yes I do. I'll note that for example I do have an account with Amazon, but if I want to boycott them what is the direct alternative? How is it possible to avoid buying anything from China? I don't use Starbucks though if that makes you happy.
[quote=Northwind said]So do you boycott Trek (or Pivot, pick either)? Shimano? Cane Creek? Or moving away from trademarks, how about Chris King?
Why should I boycott any of those? Which of them has attempted to enforce dodgy patents and trademarks by going after little guys who can't afford to defend a legitimate case?
[quote=Northwind said]That is a pretty ridiculous comparison- it's not ignoring one because there's others, it's about obsessing about a relatively one when there's others that are worse. Perspective, in other words, rather than arbitrarily picking one thing to be furious about because it's on the internet.

However you like to put it, it is classic whataboutery.

Im not too fussed about a lot of issues in the world like baby milk in China etc etc, i cant do squat about them.
But this issue feels closer to home and I hope Specialized suffer as a business because of it. Its just bad practice to do what they are doing.

i am more annoyed at them and Fuji, registering the rights to the Roubaix name, that is just totally ridiculous, the same with Epic,
I am showing my support by buying a Roubaix cafe t-shirt, mainly because I like how it looks, but hopefully the guy might get enough money to fight the case.

but Specialized are just a crap company and with in my opinion crap bikes, Ive never liked them.

I think the uproar about this was completely predictable: the cycling community is sensitive to the plight of the LBS - particularly half-decent ones (as Cafe Roubaix seems to be).

Specialized should understand the cycling community - and that should inform their corporate conduct.

How much do Specialized invest in "brand perception" each year, or over the last 5 years? How much do they spend sponsoring events so that they are viewed positively by the consumer? Their lawyers have just essentially flushed that down the toilet.

or more concisely:

Specialized can go eat a bag of dicks

Maybe I'm biased cos I own a Specialized but I'm struggling to muster up outrage over this. Is it really that big a deal if matey has to change the name of his shop?

I know very little about road racing and had heard of the name Roubaix from the Specialized bikes long before I knew it was a race.

As above I suspect if people really looked into it there are probably a lot of other things that cycling companies do that are more shady than this. Anyone bothered to find out about employee conditions in bike factories for instance? I know I haven't, so I'm not going to get on this particular bandwagon.

However you like to put it, it is classic whataboutery.

I'm not sure about that - it's not trying to connect two completely unrelated things. There are definitely bandwagons with certain brands that get tarnished as evil (e.g. Monsanto) and others that completely get away with similar/worse stuff - it's not unreasonably to ask people to try and think critically about this.

I've never heard anyone talk about boycotting bike brands that are totally crap with warranty issues. You generally only hear really good stuff about Specialized warranty, so who's more evil - the bike company that regularly screws over customers but doesn't aggressively enforce copyright protection, or the bike company that aggressively enforces copyright protection but looks after its customers really well?

As ever in life - things aren't as black and white as some people imagine them to be.

[quote=grum said]I know very little about road racing and had heard of the name Roubaix from the Specialized bikes long before I knew it was a race.
I imagine most of the outrage is coming from those people for whom the opposite is true. The question has to be if potential purchasers of a road bike really haven't heard of the race as claimed in http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn74079612&docId=UNC20080104091159#docIndex=4&page=19 (go to page 19 - direct link doesn't seem to work) what the value of the Trademark actually is, and why the bullies didn't just call their bike something else arbitrary like "Ribber" which would at least be easier for the ignorant to pronounce? I'd suggest that the very fact they've chosen that for the name of the bike rather than some other nearby French town like Cambrai disproves the claim in the trademark application.

[quote=grum said]I've never heard anyone talk about boycotting bike brands that are totally crap to deal with for warranty issues.
I've seen plenty of that, so maybe you aren't the best person to provide observational evidence.

I note that what they're doing is trademark protection, not copyright protection (there being a significant difference in terms of what value they've added), and like most legal actions by Specialized would almost certainly fail if tested properly by a court - they're simply relying on having the deepest pockets for lawyers and frightening off the smaller party due to the cost of the litigation.

Most people in America could barely point to France on a map - I reckon amongst the potential customers for the bike only a tiny fraction will know about Paris-Roubaix.

I'm not exactly pro their stance - but it seems to be getting blown way out of proportion.

If it wasn't for precious roadies thinking they are nobly guarding the 'soul of cycling' and sticking it to the man at the same time I doubt there would be such a fuss. 😉

I've seen plenty of that, so maybe you aren't the best person to provide observational evidence.

I've seen individuals who've had issues saying they will boycott the brand in future - I don't think I've ever seen lots of other people with no direct stake jumping on the bandwagon?

[quote=grum said]Most people in America could barely point to France on a map - I reckon amongst the potential customers for the bike only a tiny fraction will know about Paris-Roubaix.

In which case why choose a name which is so awkward to pronounce for such ignorant people? Surely that is losing them sales? You do realise that customers for the bike aren't typical Americans/Canadians - they are after all not all that cheap, so to purchase one implies a certain amount of commitment to the sport.

How about potential customers of the shop? Are you telling me that he also chose it randomly?

Good to see the real 'owners' of the trademark aren't a bunch of cockdickers:

http://bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2013/12/09/asi-says-calgary-bike-shop-can-use-roubaix-name#.UqaWE82BKA2

Indeed, [runs off to google Fuji Bikes}

Maybe I'm biased cos I own a Specialized but I'm struggling to muster up outrage over this. Is it really that big a deal if matey has to change the name of his shop?

It's going to mean a lot to him as far as money out of the door is concerned, a new sign, new ads, website, etc. Probably not a lot of money but enough to make a big hole in his earnings for the year.

That is good news wall eater.

I just bought a tee shirt from him.

That should be rare in a few weeks after he is forced to change the shop name and all the other merchandise etc.

I will wear it with pride and next time I pass the Specialized concept store in Chester, I'll be sure to pop in.

EDIT but not buy anything

Much ado about nothing IMO. The fella who opened the shop was either incredibly naïve and didn’t even do a cursory trademark check before branding. Or he did the check, knew Spesh held the trademark and took the gamble that he would get away with it. He hasn’t, and now he’s crying about it on social media. He could easily have contacted the TM holder in advance and avoided all of this hastle but he chose not to. I honestly don't see how Specialized are being painted as the big bad wolf here.

What impact would one fatal incident resulting from a catastrophic failure of a Café Roubaix wheel or bike have on Spesh sales?
If you were sat around the Specialized board room table would you take that gamble?

Trek shut down Lemomd for his anti Lance position.

I think trek shut down Lemond because his bikes werent selling or more accurately Trek saved Lemond from being run into the ground but even they couldnt make money out of it.

As for boycotting specialized concept stores and their products, you arent hurting specialized, you are hurting the store owner, another little guy like the guy you are accusing Specialized of bullying

Much ado about nothing IMO. The fella who opened the shop was either incredibly naïve and didn’t even do a cursory trademark check before branding. Or he did the check, knew Spesh held the trademark and took the gamble that he would get away with it. He hasn’t, and now he’s crying about it on social media. He could easily have contacted the TM holder in advance and avoided all of this hastle but he chose not to. I honestly don't see how Specialized are being painted as the big bad wolf here.

Exactly this. His words were he "assumed" it would be ok. He then got called out & went public about it.

The Facebook 'outrage' is hilarious. People posting pictures of helmets they have smashed up in disgust, plenty of pictures of bikes with stickered over logo's, etc. Still - Makes it obvious to know who to avoid if you see one out.

Except specialiszed don't own the trademark they licence it from someone else and they don't licence it for cafees or wheels. Realy poor thinking on specialized part. Even the we had to defend or lose the rights argument is wrong.

I love that the real owner of the trademark is saying that Specialized breached the licence that they hold to use the name by registering it in Canada in the first place.

I can't wait to see what Specialized say about all of this once they finally decide to release a follow up statement.

“We are in the process of notifying Specialized that they did not have the authority, as part of our license agreement, to stop Daniel Richter … from using the Roubaix name,” Cunnane said in an email to BRAIN. “While ASI does have the authority to object to Mr. Richter’s use of the name and while we at ASI understand the importance of protecting our bicycle model names, we believe that Mr. Richter did not intend for consumers to confuse his brick-and-mortar establishment or his wheel line with our Roubaix road bike. And we believe consumers are capable of distinguishing his bike shop and wheel line from our established bikes.”

According to the Canadian Intellectual Property Office, Specialized registered the Roubaix name in 2007 for use on “Bicycles, bicycle frames, and bicycle components, namely bicycle handlebars, bicycle front fork, and bicycle tires.”

But Cunnane said that registration was “inappropriate.”

“Like many trademark owners, ASI does not register its trademarks in every country and never tried to register the mark in Canada. ASI only recently learned of Specialized’s registration of the Roubaix trademark in Canada and ASI’s position is that Specialized’s registration of the mark in Canada was inappropriate under the terms of their license agreement. ASI has used the mark in Canada for well over 10 years, giving it first-use trademark rights in Canada.”

In a phone call, Cunnane noted that ASI has been able to reach amicable agreements with several other brands over trademarks. For example, ASI owns the U.S. rights to the name Gran Fondo for use on bicycles, while BMC owns the rights in Europe. The two brands have a co-existance agreement to share the name in both markets.

From the bicycle retailer story.

Seems like game, set and match to Mr Richter right there.

Haha, Specialized got pwned.

And to the S-apologists - yes I have also crossed Trek off my list for new bike purchases following Dave Weagle's ABP allegations (and personal experience of dealing with the company).

It's pathetic to say "let's allow them to be aggressive bullies becuase at least they're not as bad as xyz".

chakaping - Member

And to the S-apologists - yes I have also crossed Trek off my list for new bike purchases following Dave Weagle's ABP allegations (and personal experience of dealing with the company).

Best cross Giant off too, Weagle claims Maestro appeared after he collaborated with them about using DW-Link but they chose not to go with him

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/05/06/dw-link-sues-giant-bicycles-claiming-patent-infringement-breach-of-contract/

Specialized's management are currently hiding under the duvet, hoping the whole horrible mess goes away.

Best cross Giant off too, Weagle claims Maestro appeared after he collaborated with them about using DW-Link but they chose not to go with him

but giant aren't being dicks about it, at worst they're ignoring an extremely vague patent.

and as for the DW link / Giant maestro hoo-ha, Edge bikes got there before either of them.

This what happens when you act like a dick. Now spesh won't be selling Roubaix bikes in Canada.
Happy days. Eat shit spesh!

Best cross Giant off too

Yes indeed.

Absolutely AHWiles, Dave Weagle blows anyway

Specialized's management are currently hiding under the duvet, hoping the whole horrible mess goes away.

More likely they are busy negotiating how to handle it and discovering that they probably can't licence the name to the bike shop because they don't have that right. My guess is that in the end they do a deal where the shop gets to keep it's name and they pay to rebrand the wheels as that makes it look like the public have won. Then, in the end, they gain from a bit of publicity (their facebook likes have gone up since this started) and it's business as usual 🙁

[quote=irelanst said]Much ado about nothing IMO. The fella who opened the shop was either incredibly naïve and didn’t even do a cursory trademark check before branding. Or he did the check, knew Spesh held the trademark and took the gamble that he would get away with it.
Or maybe he assumed, as is reasonable and as is actually the case that it wasn't registered as a trademark for a bike shop.

I don't think that Fuji/ASI actually have the right to stop him calling his shop Roubaix either, but at least they have the decency to be nice about claiming their supposed rights, so I doubt anybody would actually object to them claiming the moral high ground in the way they have.

I honestly don't see how Specialized are being painted as the big bad wolf here.

Maybe it's because they were being bullies (something for which they have plenty of history). Do you not realise that the legal basis for their C&D wasn't actually valid and that they only hoped to win due to him backing down over the cost of him defending it - which is standard legal practice for Specialized. I'm quite pleased to see that Specializd's litigious practices have got wider publicity due to this.

What impact would one fatal incident resulting from a catastrophic failure of a Café Roubaix wheel or bike have on Spesh sales?

Er, probably zero. Because they're not actually branded as Specialized, something which anybody who isn't completely stupid would notice. Specialized are suggesting that us bicycle consumers are stupid.

[quote=leffeboy said]My guess is that in the end they do a deal where the shop gets to keep it's name and they pay to rebrand the wheels as that makes it look like the public have won. Then, in the end, they gain from a bit of publicity (their facebook likes have gone up since this started) and it's business as usual

You guess wrong. Fuji/ASI have swept away that way of backing down and coming out of this looking good - it seems Specialized's only option is to simply admit they are arses, along with possibly losing what trademark rights they do have in Canada, as it appears ASI object to their registration there (despite what I posted earlier it seems Fuji still own the trademark in the US and Specialized license it rather than the other way round).

Have people really been liking Specialized on FB? I successfully posted on their wall without doing so.

Sometime people 'like' a page so that they can receive the updates

I don't think that Fuji/ASI actually have the right to stop him calling his shop Roubaix either, but at least they have the decency to be nice about claiming their supposed rights, so I doubt anybody would actually object to them claiming the moral high ground in the way they have.

Seems easy enough to understand this but many people seem to still be missing the point.

Have people really been liking Specialized on FB?

They're waiting for the humiliating climbdown.

I bet the shop is doing well though.

I bet the shop is doing well though.

When the story first broke, they had about 100 followers on Twitter. They're now at just over 3000!

Yesterday somebody found that roubaix.ca was a free web name, registered it and then redirected it to caferoubaix.ca 😀

Indeed, profiting quite nicely from his own naiveity/stupidity, whodathunk it?

Searching for roubaix bicycle on google.com now returns www.caferoubaix.ca on the first page.

I just hope for Mr. Richter's sake that with all the extra sympathy / support / stickin it to "the man", sales it appears he's made last few days, for tees and jerseys etc., that his business doesn't fail through over trading ! Unlikely, I know with PayPal type sales and money up front etc. Here's to him anyway, whatever the outcome.

Northwind - Member
So do you boycott Trek (or Pivot, pick either)? Shimano? Cane Creek? Or moving away from trademarks, how about Chris King?

While we're here, what have those companies done?

To quote a tweet : Peter In Roubaix @PeterInDevon
The funniest part of the #roubaix bullying scandal is that @iamspecialized lost the password to their twitter account at the same time!

[quote=shermer75 said]Sometime people 'like' a page so that they can receive the updates

Ah - I just keep checking the page for an update. I suppose I'm increasing their page view count.

When the story first broke, they had about 100 followers on Twitter. They're now at just over 3000!

Wow, their profits must be through the roof with that....! 😉

I'd agree that there are bigger, much more important things to get wound up about in the world, but that doesn't mean you can't disapprove and decide to comment on or go as far as boycotting SBC, Cyclists are bound to care about "cycling issues" and the behaviour of cycling businesses, and probably get more animated over those issues than others (perhaps going beyond what is reasonable in some cases), I think it is important that as companies like SBC get bigger they remember that their customers perception of the brand, and what it stands for is extremely important for their continued success.

A "Brand" is more than just the Names, Logos and colour schemes, consumers are attracted to brands they feel they can identify with, that reflect their beliefs and aspirations, when it comes to "Brand management" enforcing an, apparently flawed, trademark registration is actually far less important than your potential customers thinking you are a bunch of lawyered up Dicks...

TBH, rather cynically, I don't think this little episode will really affect SBC all that much, they'll buy themselves a few more glowing reviews in MBR etc and the worst they'll feel will be a minor 2014 Q1 sales blip...

I don't think SBC are some cartoonish, Evil, Mega-corp, but I think in the process of growing from a Garage outfit to a multinational corporation over the last 30 odd years they've lost their way a little, become a little bit mono-cultural and started to think more about how to dominate cycling rather than be part of it, I think they maybe need a bit of a minor "ethical realignment" they might not be chopping down rain forests or rotting baby's teeth, but they are showing form for bullying smaller businesses over the last couple of years, its behaviour that in the long run will hurt their brand...

Intersting how none of the flamers have a repost to the argument that under Canuck law, Specialized could lose the Roubaix trademark if they don't take steps to enforce it (puts them in a no-win situation)

the fundamental argument is whether there was an actual infringement of the trademark in the first place, surely? Not whether they were right/wrong to try enforcement?

Several lawyers have said they think it was a fairly shakey claim in the first place. This is why people are upset - Specialized waving a big stick at someone on dubious grounds knowing they'll never have to contest their claims in court.

the fact they broke their own licence to use the 'Roubaix' trademark when registering it is the icing on the cake.

Intersting how none of the flamers have a repost to the argument that under Canuck law, Specialized could lose the Roubaix trademark if they don't take steps to enforce it (puts them in a no-win situation)

They don't have to enforce it, they can grant permission instead. But... it turns out they don't actually own it anyway and have just been granted permission to use it themselves.

Contrast ASI's pretty reasonable response with that of Specialized (Canada). Anyway I now have a T shirt heading over the Atlantic for Christmas 😀 . Reading Cafe Roubaix FB, he already has the offer of a Trademark lawyer pro bono (talk about getting in there!).

Intersting how none of the flamers have a repost to the argument that under Canuck law, Specialized could lose the Roubaix trademark if they don't take steps to enforce it

i did think about this a couple of days ago. They could have reached an agreement (assuming specialised and not Fuji hold the rights for Canada) All they had to do was contact the bike shop owner and say we believe that you're inappropriately using our trademark, whilst we doubt there will be any confusion between our brands under Canadian law we do need to enforce our trademark therefore would you be willing to to license the name for $1.

Compromise all round.
He gets to keep his shop name.
Specialized get to protect their (or more likely Fuji's) trademark.
And the story either gets no press or it might even deliberately leak out as a good news piece about global mega corp supporting the little guy.

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Fair point wwaswas, but what do you mean by this?

the fact they broke their own licence to use the 'Roubaix' trademark when registering it is the icing on the cake

And also this...any evidence?

5thElefant - Member
But... it turns out they don't actually own it anyway and have just been granted permission to use it themselves.

 

cynic-al - read james-o's post on the previous page from the actual owners of the trademark.

[quote=cynic-al said]Intersting how none of the flamers have a repost to the argument that under Canuck law, Specialized could lose the Roubaix trademark if they don't take steps to enforce it (puts them in a no-win situation)

You mean apart from all the responses to that argument which had already been given before your post:
1) Specialized could have done what ASI have done and agreed that the cafe could use the name.
2) That they don't have to go after every use of the trademark (in situations which the trademark doesn't directly cover) in order to protect it http://redkiteprayer.com/2013/12/the-explainer-because-i-ing-hate-bullies/ http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/notices/TrademarkLitigationStudy.pdf
3) That the shop name isn't actually infringing the trademark at all as it doesn't cover bike shops and there is no real likelihood of confusion - this isn't a valid legal case and simply relies upon a small business not having the funds to fight it.
4) Finally that their registration of the trademark isn't valid according to the owners of the trademark in the US.

...off you go to read the thread, where you'll find all of those already mentioned. I particularly recommend reading the redkiteprayer article - one by a real lawyer with experience of this sort of stuff - where he debunks the notion that Specialized had to do this. I'll quote from that article for you:

Specialized is using the old “defend it or lose it” argument, saying that it must assert its “rights” to “their” trademark of Roubaix or risk losing it.

It’s a weak argument and one that I, quite uncomfortably, had to try and make myself many years ago (more on that later). It’s basically an argument that can be summed up as — and forgive me for using another technical legal term here — ”bullshit.”

OK ta, I'd not realised there had been updates in recent hours.

aracer - Member
4) Finally that their registration of the trademark isn't valid according to the owners of the trademark in the US.

Odd...this relates to a Canadian dispute? -

BTW what do you mean by this?

one by a real lawyer with experience of this sort of stuff

[quote=cynic-al said]OK ta, [s]I'd not realised there had been updates in recent hours.[/s] I didn't bother to read the thread before posting.

Odd...this relates to a Canadian dispute?
Except there is a link between the US and Canadian legal systems, and the article suggests there were conditions relating to the licensing of the trademark in the US.

BTW what do you mean by this?
one by a real lawyer with experience of this sort of stuff

Er, that the article was written by a real lawyer with experience of trademark disputes. Why what else did you think I meant?

Again, cynic-al - all the answers have been provided. Why not just read?

Christ, like neither of you have missed updates on a thread in the preceding hours before you posted?

🙄

crossed Trek off my list for new bike purchases following Dave Weagle's ABP allegations (and personal experience of dealing with the company).

I'm aware of the danger of judging before a verdict has been reached. DW's claim looked quite damning though.

Fortunately Trek have also ruled themselves out for me as a contender for new bikes by shamelessly weaseling out of warrantying their product when required.

Still bought a secondhand Stache though. Does that make me a hypocrite?

good synopsis of the current state of play with Specialized here;

[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/specialized-roubaix-trademark-legal-threat-may-backfire-as-fuji-weighs-in-39260/ ]http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/specialized-roubaix-trademark-legal-threat-may-backfire-as-fuji-weighs-in-39260/[/url]

[quote=cynic-al said]Christ, like neither of you have missed updates on a thread in the preceding hours before you posted?

Not 23 hours, no - which is how long ago I posted this (I'm fairly sure some of the other responses were posted even earlier):
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/specialized-threaten-to-sue-over-roubaix-name/page/4#post-5583188

Really not trying to have a go, but the responses you claimed nobody had given had all been done yesterday.

[i]they gain from a bit of publicity (their facebook likes have gone up since this started) and it's business as usual [/i]

Have you seen their FB page lately?

Have you seen their FB page lately?

Ouch, that doesn't look good for them does it

[quote=slowoldgit ]
Have you seen their FB page lately?
There really are a lot of sad pricks on the internet.

"We win by working in a highly collaborative and transparent, [b]non-corporate[/b] and non-political environment with a mission to:

• Create a culture that attracts, develops and retains the best people on the planet
• Design and build the best bikes and equipment in the world
• [b]Foster social and environmental responsibility in the world in which we live[/b]"

Here's a hint Specialized: don't just [u]have[/u] a mission statement, try [u]being[/u] your mission statement.

Cha****ng, I don't know about any verdicts or ongoing stuff there as I've not followed it for a few years. Safe to say there's prior use of axle pivots before either Trek or DW used it though.
But that's off topic, just why I have a passing interest in the Spesh news, mainly the way the US and European Patent criteria seem to be different.

[quote=scotroutes said]
There really are a lot of sad pricks on the internet.

The ones posting on internet forums, or are you just including FB? 😉

[quote=jameso said]Safe to say there's prior use of axle pivots before either Trek or DW used it though.
But that's off topic, just why I have a passing interest in the Spesh news, mainly the way the US and European Patent criteria seem to be so different.

There's prior use of most patented bike suspension stuff - hence why most of it is only patented in the US. Of course Specialized also have history in this area with their Horst Link patent, which would likely fail if anybody ever decided to spend enough money to contest it (I understand either Scott or Giant considered it, but decided it wasn't worth spending all the money even though they were confident of winning).

There's prior use of most patented bike suspension stuff - hence why most of it is only patented in the US.

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[i]There really are a lot of sad pricks on the internet. [/i]

Californian Big Bike Co legals hit on Canadian LBS over alleged TM abuse.
LBS can't afford to fight, as BBC has lots of lawyers.
But BBC's TM Cert shows it doesn't cover wheels and cafe, the heart of the problem.
Original TM owners turn up, they say BBC only rented TM, and not in Canada.
BBC are saying nowt. Lots of ordinary bike riders turn up to put pressure on BBC's FB page because they don't approve.

Just who are the sad pricks here? Apart from the lawyers, of course.

It doesn't help that they chose to TM Roubaix, which is deeply embedded in cycling culture. I read about it when I was a teenager, yes that long ago.

Shame no one can put up a web site up to donate a small sum, to take it to court
has this is typical corporate bullying

It looks like we won
http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2013/12/09/cochrane-bike-shop-owner-may-have-won-his-case-against-specialized-over-use-of-word-roubaix/

...don't tell me that Mike was going to call and sort out the mess without the help of a social media campaign. Unlike some more generous souls posting on their FB page I reckon past history shows what would have happened had the shitstorm not hit.

War vet war vet war vet war vet war vet war vet war vet war vet. It's important to mention this part of the narrative as much as possible.