[Closed] SPDs you can leave the ground and safely come down on?

Did you leave the kerb clipped in, you should.

Did your foot accidentally unclip as you hopped off or during landing? I've had this happen a few times due to worn cleats/bad technique...quite sketchy if one foot releases during a bunnyhops and then you've got to find the pedal/saddle before landing!

Some shoes have to much flex in the sole and this allows the shoe to move around to much, or the cleat plate to press into your foot, tweaking your ankle

I was clipped in. Shoes are solid. I generally feel like I'm skating on a piece of ice, balanced on a spindle. Can't "feel" where the supporting part of the pedals in.

I did move the cleats afterwards because I felt like that side was having my shoe too far out, putting weight down I feel the shoe tilting downwards on the outside of my foot.

Overall, I Like parts of using SPDs, but not if I'm leaving the ground and coming down again. I feel unsupported.

I mean, there's shit loads of people using them, that drop much bigger things than even the highest kerb. If you've decided there is a problem with using SPD's then maybe you've got a mental block and your positioning is all out.

Just ride on them and get used to how they feel, they work fine. I don't find the technique is that different really and can pretty much swap between bikes that use either SPD's or flats.

Platform SPD's like the nukeproof horizons are good and give more support, But mine don't play very nicely with my Shimano mw5's. The grips and pins get in the way of each other when u clipping.

Those Zeray 108s are certainly light.

I've never had an issue tbh, but use Shimano 540's. As others have said, are they or the cleats worn - have you tried tightening the 'clamps'?

Many of the folk I ride with use spd's for full-on Enduro etc.

There’s no trick as such - it just feels different. You’re connected to the pedal by a much smaller contact area. It’ll take time but persevere & your feel will adjust. 👍

I would second this...

Just ride on them and get used to how they feel, they work fine. I don’t find the technique is that different really and can pretty much swap between bikes that use either SPD’s or flats.

I have two MTB's one with flats the other with SPD and I find that they are very similar and I can switch back and forth. I have been riding both styles for at least 5 years so I'd suggest 'keep trying' it's you ;o)

Op,maybe try shimano 647s as a halfway house.Bigger target to hit if you are un-clipping a lot. I first started using them in CX races and big hike/bike rides. Horses for courses an all that ,some folk hate them,I think they are ace.

SPDs you can leave the ground and safely come down on?

All of them*

You don't have multirelease cleats on do you? I hate them.

Suppose the question of why you are wanting to go to SPDs has to come first?
If they feel very unnatural and you don't really need to go to them, I wouldn't bother.

I'm pretty much the other way round. Been on SPDs for nearly 30 yrs and wish I could get used to flats at times.

It's difficult to imagine how you tweaked your knee when landing clipped in, unless your body or cleat was at an awkward angle. Body position could easily become so if you launched off the curb and that is down to practice and technique.

Cleat wise, try hanging your feet over the pedals when sat down - do your feet sit in a similar position to when they are clipped in? Within reason, they should so maybe the rotation of the cleats need some work.

I can’t say it’s ever crossed my mind that anything is really that different with spds vs flats. The only thing I probably do find is that on flats your feet stay where they are but you have float with spds. I have found recently my left foot is slightly rubbing my cranks with my Shimano am7 / Nukeproof Horizon pedals - because my left foot is slightly toe in rather than straight like the other foot.

I’d just check the cranks are pretty central on your shoes and make sure you’ve got a bit of tension in the pedal mechanism so it’s not too slack holding the cleat.

There’s usually an Allen key bolt on each side of the pedal at the back which you can adjust tension with.

If you have small(xc style) SPD pedals then generally you should be using stiff soled shoes. Although the connection with the pedal will be small, the stiffness of the sole will mean the whole sole of the shoe will act like the pedal. If you're having issues with drops then it suggests you had your feet quite central on flats and perhaps too much on your toes with SPD's. Once you've sorted the right cleat position then there shouldn't be a worry about your feet, you're attached so they're not moving.

If you want the feeling of flat pedals, crank brothers mallets. The next best thing is saints, followed by XT M8120 trail pedals. You will need to use skate style shoes to get the most benefit.

SPDs will take time to get used to - much like someone who has spent 30 years riding SPDs can't seem to get riding with flat pedals as his feet keep lifting off the pedals as he tries to pull up with the trailing leg (so I just don't try to ride flat pedals any more!).

They do take time to get used to as your foot has to return to the right spot to engage cleat so there is less room for error - a flat pedals allows you to just mash your foot on to a much larger area and it will connect. The SPD is much smaller and needs the shoe at the right spot to engage. a SPD with a cage round it might help reduce this issue as it will be a bigger area to contact but it will still require your foot to be moved to the right spot to engage the cleat.

Maybe tighten the cleat a wee bit and then just get out and practice - despite being clipped in to the pedals, they are very easy to unclip from so you need to practice and learn how they work (same as I should probably do for flat pedals - but I'm getting older and stubborn so refusing to do that!).

Slide the cleats back so ball of foot isn't on axel.

Try moving the cleats back.

I used to ride SPDs but switched to flats a few years ago. I stuck SPDs on my hardtail one day for an easy ride with the wife along paths rather than a trail. They felt absolutely horrible. The cleats were too far forward, I'd got used to the more central position your feet have on flats so having the cleats forward felt terrible. I actually stopped mid ride and moved them. They felt much better once they were further back.

Doesn’t look like a very supportive pedal - does your shoe tread either side of the cleat contact the alloy pedal body? If not get some Shimano trail type pedals as they have distinct lateral support areas on the larger pedal body.

M520 user here and I had the same feeling when I first started with SPDs. I guess I still do to some degree, it feels like I am pedaling on something small. I did think about moving to an SPD with a bigger platform, but was too lazy to go to the shop and ended up keeping the 520s on both bikes.

I went back to flats at one point for my commuter because I thought it was easier for just going around town. Oh yes, much easier, but by gods it feels unconnected. I hated it. So weird.

Looking those pedals up, I see they're small no platform xc ones. If your shoes are stiff xc type then adding a platform isn't going to make an appreciable difference. Well, possibly to guide you in, but not much once clipped in. I do use platform SPDs and more "trail" type shoes though, because they feel a bit more supportive under the foot and because I like to set the cleats back quite far. However, you're into subtleties here compared with coming off on a kerb - changing to pedals with more platform is an incremental upgrade rather than a fundamental problem solver.

If the issue was with SPDs and a drop, does this mean you unclipped during the drop? I'd guess you'd need a hefty pull up (technique issue) and a loose mechanism for this to happen. Or something odd happened like a twist or the pedal wasn't engaged in the first place? Or the dreaded multi release cleats but I don't think they come with anything as standard.

Anyway, there shouldn't be any problem caused by SPDs on drops and the like. Are you trying to do something different technique wise to how you'd ride the same thing on flats? I'm no coach but if it's right with flats it should pretty much be right with SPDs. I mean if your foot pulled out of a clip it would've come up off a flat pedal, right? The other way round is where problems tend to show.

Make sure you're using SH51 cleats and not the multi release SH56.

those platformless pedals require a super stiff shoe
ive got some single sided expedo pedals, and because the clip side doesnt have a supporting platform, i cant use them with my shimano/510 clipless shoes as i can feel the hotspot of the slip, and likewise, my feet swim on them, so they are now on my gravel bike, which is fine as i dont stand so much on the pedals.
the pedals i do get on with are the DMR Vtwins with a massive platform, in combination with my shimano/510 skate style shoes

The biggest issue where I am right now (China) , and I dont know how it is for you lot back in the UK (pandemic issues), is shoe stock. Usually large shoes here are QC fails, with the good stuff getting sent abroad. Anything for the local market, or even imported, is going to be max UK11.5. Sellers saying they can get UK13 are putting an 18 month wait estimate on them.

I was lucky to find some Exustar SPD shoes in my size. Like once in a blue moon lucky. I'd given up totally on finding Five Tens in a UK13. The cleats came with the XC Pds. Couldn't even tell you what type they are specifically. I was giving SPDs a whirl for the first time ever. Plenty of space between shoe and crank. Cleat fitted all the way back because anything forward didn't feel good at all. Absolutely fine for riding on the flat, and down stairs. But off kerbs. Ouch. Foot placement/weight/balance issues.

Anyhow, I just went out to the supermarket and my GF gave me a box when I returned. There were some older, but brand new, Five Ten Red Barons in a UK13. I'm not saying I'm teary eyed or anything like that, but she sure knows the way to a man's heart. She wants the SPDs on her bike, and she doesn't leave the ground. If she gets on with them, good for her.

Thanks for the tips. If I ever decide to go back again I can check out different cleats. Or maybe an enduro platform SPD. But for now, I'm shopping for new shin guards!!

Haha, yea, sometimes it's best just to stick with what you're comfortable with.

Weirdly I've swapped back and forth all my cycling life, I don't have any issues riding jumps/drops/Northshore clipped in (any more than my meager talent on flats anyway). But for whatever reason, I can't ride my new Scandal clipped in. I'm putting it down to the seat angle as normally I'd stand up and shift forward a couple of inches so that my knee/leg had room to move over the top tube, but it just doesn't seem to work, I can't corner properly on it for toffee!

Also FWIW I don't agree with the idea of moving the cleats back, I stand on the flats with the ball of my foot over the axle, any further forward and my feet bounce off.

Also if you were to try again, I'd go with genuine Shimano pedals and cleats. The copies are usually "compatible" but not 100% copies to avoid the various patents. I've bought some in the past and ended up giving them away to people who used that particular brand. Boardman were particularly bad IIRC but they're just something else re-branded. As I just couldn't adapt to them.

And then set them up normally; cleat in the middle, under the ball of your foot and supporting you, not making your ankle rotate over because it's off-center. The latter is referred to as "waterfalling". If you get a bike fit and they suggest a wider q-factor, it's best to achieve this with pedal spacers or wider cranks, not by moving the cleat inwards on the sole.

While we’ve got all the technique experts assembled, how do shin pads help when riding?
I can picture all sorts of amusing ways of falling off a bike with flat pedals (and I’ve likely done most of them, as I’ve ridden flats for about 4 years on my full suss).
I can’t picture any way that the pedal ends up against my shin, apart from when walking/pushing the bike.

I jump and bunny hop, I (sometimes) do foot out on flat corners, I’ve tripod/pushed off when I’ve stalled on tech, both downhill and up. And never, for all my other flaws and issues, have I thought I’m about to hit the front of my shin on my pedal.

I have painfully drawn blood from my legs twice, having flicked up a tennis ball sized rock. Once in cwmcarn, once in avoriaz. I would have been very grateful for shin pads there!

Boardman were particularly bad IIRC but they’re just something else re-branded. As I just couldn’t adapt to them.

I’ve got a set of the Boardman mtb pro pedals - bought them for road commuting as they’re lighter then anything else under about £100. Recently I’ve stuck them on my hardtail and using them with some Shimano xc style shoes I had in the cupboard - they’re actually pretty decent I think for the money 🤷‍♂️

I think they’re either xpedo or exustar pedals that have been rebranded.

I'm another one returning to shimano from "shimano compatible" - my Nukeproofs have been OK but the cleat interface jaw things are really worn now to the point that new cleats feel worn out. Shimano pedals have lasted me probably 5 times longer, well basically forever in most cases. So I've got some saints on the way. Pricey, but that's 2021 for you.

Slide the cleats back so ball of foot isn’t on axel.

THIS! Slide the cleat ALL the way back. Depending on shoes if they are XC style they might not go back far enough.

I have some XC type shoes and some more enduro style, both shimano and have to runt he cleat all the way back on the XC and most of the way back on enduro. Other brands e.g. giro enduro style let you go further back.

Also make sure you are not running the awful "multirelease" style cleat

I can’t picture any way that the pedal ends up against my shin, apart from when walking/pushing the bike.

Forward foot slips off the back of the pedal. Rear foot rotates cranks quickly backwards and pedal ****s you in the shin. Rear foot slips off back of pedal, which rakes up shin as you fall. Both are rare with modern pedal/shoe combo's I imagine, but as an SPD user, even rarer for me!

Edit - and so much this, even hopeless on a road bike!

Also make sure you are not running the awful “multirelease” style cleat

I’ve got a set of the Boardman mtb pro pedals

They work for some people, and they worked better in Boardman pedals, but I just had so many "SPD moments"! The release mechanism just didn't seem very reliable, and whatever the patent avoiding differences were made them REALLY difficult to get out of Shimano pedals. They were light, but that's not a particularly useful criterion to judge pedals by.

THIS! Slide the cleat ALL the way back. Depending on shoes if they are XC style they might not go back far enough.

Maybe this will be something we'll look back on in 20 years like 72deg seat angles and 620mm bars. But I'm not convinced that 100+ years of everyone setting up their toe clips / SPD's in the same position is worth throwing out just yet.

It's like running shoes, some people will argue till they're blue in the face that barefoot traniers are best and that neutral or Stability soles are so 20th century. The other 99.9% just keep buying whichever ones don't knacker their knees/ankles/hips.

Long-time SPD user and currently I flip between SPDs and flats on my MTB (SPDs all the time on road/gravel bike). Always Shimano SPDs, and never multi-release cleats.

I've found that sometimes (rarely) when I use a lot of body English for balance, I can inadvertently unclip from SPDs with worn cleats. I've done this a couple of times when manualing or wheelying (sp?) I.e. knee out, and it's pretty sketchy.

It's not a big issue and (for me) is completely fixed by using cleats that aren't nailed. But people are different and I can imagine a scenario where it was possible for someone to unclip when they least wanted to.

FWIW I really like the foot feel of SPDs. It feels different to flats, obviously, but to me it's a hard, precise interaction with the bike, not a weird squishy rubber join. I feel like I can position, and feel, the back of the bike more precisely with SPDs. It's probably just familiarity in my case. My point is that just because it feels different doesn't mean it's wrong!

Maybe this will be something we’ll look back on in 20 years like 72deg seat angles and 620mm bars. But I’m not convinced that 100+ years of everyone setting up their toe clips / SPD’s in the same position is worth throwing out just yet.

Well the proof is in the pudding.

You set road bike cleats up with the ball of your foot over the pedal axle.
This is apparently the most efficient setup for pedalling, and how SPDs are often setup.

If you ride MTB on flats, you move your foot around. Often close to ball over axle sat down pedalling up, more like middle of foot on pedal for balance when stood up going down.

If you ride MTB SPDs with ball over axle, you will use the same muscles as road bike and be most efficient. However you will feel like you are skating on ice going down stood up.

Now you can get used to the skating on ice, and long time users will be well used to it - but unconsciously you are compromising downhill balance with prioritising pedalling efficiency.

By sliding the cleats back, you get a kind of middle ground. You'll find much better control stood up going down with heels down and you use slightly different muscles pedalling. This feels weird at first, but you soon get used to it and realise theres not much if anything in it efficiency wise anyway.

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/how-to-position-clipless-cleats-mtb/

Of course it depends on the riding you do... but don't be afraid to move the cleat around and try it out. Oh and always use Shimano pedals (m520s are the best) and cleats.

@Alan, my last shin strike was a stair jump to tarmac where there was a raised flag that spun my rear wheel out to the right and bike tipped to the left. I put my foot down too close to avoid hitting the deck, slid for quite a way, slamming my brakes on. The Wellgo MG7 pins raised some blood in three areas, luckily didn't carve my flesh off, but the area (presume bone) was tender for almost two months. I'd like to avoid that again. I've only ever hit my knees once (when DJing and going over the bars)

Get some Shimano Saint spd pedals. Best spd pedals I've ever used. Nice big platform with pins, so if you dont clip in properly, its OK. Also, they seem to clip in way easier than other pedals I've used. Especially when paired with Shimano's all mountain style shoes (with the softer sole rather than the xc style frm ones).

Those PD-M820 Saint pedals have a platform of 99*79mm, and the 79mm is the width? In my UK13 plodders I'd still not get any side support from them? Just front and rear rotation? I think I ultimately sprained my knee due to lack of side support.

I've stuck some temporary 115*112mm flats on my bike until I can get my flats of choice off my old bike (LBS might have used a bit too much leverage to tighten them up when they were changing my BB/crankset!)

Forward foot slips off the back of the pedal. Rear foot rotates cranks quickly backwards and pedal **** you in the shin. Rear foot slips off back of pedal, which rakes up shin as you fall. Both are rare with modern pedal/shoe combo’s I imagine, but as an SPD user, even rarer for me!

I tried to deliberately engineer this situation last night. Great for stretching out the back of your calf/achillies, but no chance of coming off the pedal. In fact the only way I can get my foot off the pedal at all is to unweight it, which requires either the other foot moving to the 6 oclock postition, or sitting down and taking all my weight in my arse.

Like you say, rare with modern shoes/pedals, but the "must get shin pads if you ride flats" old wives tale persists.

There is some serious over thinking going on on this thread.

Get some Shimano SPD's.
Get some cleats, make sure they are not the silly multi release ones.
Set up pedal to mid tension.
Fit cleats
Ride bike
If cleats don't feel right, move them.
Ride bike

There are only three ways SPD's will let you down:
1. Worn cleats (takes several years of use to wear down SPD cleats)
2. Silly multi release cleats
3. Tension on release too loose.

I tried to deliberately engineer this situation last night.

If you do any feet-off tricks (or just a dab at a corner, for example) and land with your front foot behind the pedal axle, your toes can bend and your (front) foot can slip backwards off the pedal as the pedal itself spins round out of the way. Then as described, the crank comes round very quickly and your pedals find your shins.

Will probably happen a lot less with stiffer shoes with grippier soles and wider, thinner pedals.

I definitely don't think shin pads are necessary on MTB. You'll look like a dork. But plenty of people use them for BMX/DJ. Under jeans though.

I personally don't like having my pedals in the middle of my foot *at all*. When I descent on flats I put the pedal in the middle, but when I'm having to pedal to ride along or up I move my foot backwards so the ball of my foot is over the axle again. Maybe it's just 30 years of riding that's conditioned me to do that, but I've no reason to change I don't think. On SPDs I don't need the feel or grip that comes from having the pedal centred, and on flats I can just move my foot.

As for SPDs in general and jumping - it's fine, just a different technique and something you have to learn.

BTW multi-release cleats have their place - you're far less likely to get stuck in them and fall over, so good for nervous or beginner riders - but their place is not a bike that's going to leave the ground.

If you do any feet-off tricks (or just a dab at a corner, for example) and land with your front foot behind the pedal axle, your toes can bend and your (front) foot can slip backwards off the pedal as the pedal itself spins round out of the way. Then as described, the crank comes round very quickly and your pedals find your shins.

I didn't consider any foot off tricks. That is so far beyond my skill set (or where I want to progress my skill set to).

Shimano have 2 types cleat. Single release, and multi release. The multi release can pop out easily if you pull up hard or roll your foot. Do you know which cleats you have?

No idea what type of cleats came with the pedals. I could only release if I turned my toes outwards.

Back to flats and five-tens. Incidentally, Wellgo Mg7 flats under UK13 Five Ten Red Barons don't feel like there's enough secure foot placement, although there is some appreciable security. I've got some larger pedals, but the pins now don't make me feel I'm 'stuck'to my pedals. It's a bugger having big feet.

Just bought some 661 Comp AM shin pads for £13.10. The seller (and this is new stock) thought they were football shin pads 😂.

If someone else hasn't already said it, try moving the cleat further back on the shoes, would feel more like a flat pedal. That's what I've done with all my clipless shoes (road as well).

They were all the way back. Two sets of bolt holes to attach to, and they move forwards/backwards. I used the rear holes, and pulled all the way back.

No real support when jumping. I am a clumsy rider as it is. I'm too old to be spraining my knee and getting away with it now. Not scared of being upside down in bushes, exhausted, bike stuck to me. I simply can't "feel" where the support is. Maybe it's from having big feet and being your clumsy sort of rider. Maybe it's something people with size 9s don't have to deal with. Maybe it's using xc SPDs.

I just bought spd shoes for the GF and tried to introduce her to these pedals. She locked in eventually. Admittedly I probably need to reduce the tension a bit as I'd gone from beginner (fell at the first traffic light) to "I'm going to drop 3ft" so need them oghtening up a bit.

I've got the leader of a local hiking group trying to persuade me to join them as they can get permission for me (foreigner) to get back into the Tibetan Autonomous Region 200km to the west, but I want the scenery to go a bit faster so I'm looking for MTB groups now with vans (most riders here are roadies, and the city is as flat as Amsterdam)

I really think this situation might very well be down to big feet, and being a clumsy rider (right ear). I started riding back when foot n mouth hit the UK, and we stripped and rebuilt our bike to be hardcore cruisers to ride urban. My balance is crap and that can't be fixed (likely smashed small bones in my right ear) but I'm dmned if I'll give up getting a rush this side of 50. So, compromises, and working with what I've got. My next step will be reassessing my helmet type. Ride or die. Hopefully not both.

Without wanting to sound too elitist or harsh, it sounds like you'd benefit from a bit of coaching.

The problems you're having with clipless sound like things you're struggling with on flats.

I've only been biking for about 6 years (in my mid 30s now), but in the first year I went for a session with Tony Doyle (jedi) of UK Bike Skills. One of the first things we did is get me standing right on the pedals.

I've forgot most of the things I was taught (jumps!), but the one thing that stuck with me was foot placement and pedal technique.

I have size 12 feet and I don't think I've ever used a pedal that's "too small". I've got favourites due to the shape etc, but I can pretty much use any modern flat pedal and feel secure on it.

I find I can switch between clips and flats very easily and don't have to think about it. The other thing is I honestly can't remember the last time I slipped off a pedal, I usually whack my legs when pushing the bike like a clumsy oaf!

What I'm getting at is, find a reputable coach near you and have a session when restrictions allow, it's the best upgrade I ever did. When I have the time, I'll be going back for a refresher too!

^^^ probably using the SPDs to scoop the back wheel up. Let me know when you can do that on flats, son.