You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Yeah yeah, I'm sure it's been done before, but I want to ask the question anyway..
I've ridden clipped in for probably 20 years now, I ride both road and mtb clipped in and have decent shoes for both (sidi dragon for the mtb). I've had a few 'moments' recently, including what felt at the time as an inconsequential slip / fall which ended up with me have two weeks off the bike with a twisted knee.
I'm thinking about going to flats for the mtb but have a few questions;
I've learnt to ride clipped in, how long does it generally take to learn the new technique as I do tend to pull up as well as push when it comes to techy climbs
I'm looking at five ten impacts, in terms of sizing, do they come up small / large? I'm a 9 and wonder if I need a 9 or 8.5 (or even 9.5)
Am I going to die?
😉
learn ? I don't think you need to learn... with 5 10 impacts there's still a bit of associated pull.... you'll be fine.
They come up pretty generic in sizing IMO.
just make sure the flat pedal axel is behiund the ball of big toe
I switched over after breaking my Tibia and Fibula last year.
Using Hope pedals and the thing that has amazed me is the grip on the pedal. My feet move around less than they did with SPD's.
I was in exactly the same situation. Similar experience and have just bought flats and five ten impacts.
I don't tend to pull up on pedal strokes most of the time so although I'm only just getting used to it, I don't find it a massive difference. As for the shoes, my feet measure 10.5 and the shoes fit nicely at 11.5. I have pretty wide feet though and like to wear thick socks. Plenty of padding in the shoes so whilst they look huge they're rather snug.
Took me about 2-3 hours of riding to remember not to pull up. A few shin scrapes with the pedals though. Went back to spd's for the winter but might put flats on the single speed when it dries up a bit.
I switched as you well know... hardest two things for me were techy climbing (still had a bit of a struggle up the first bit of the Whytes climb on saturday) and letting the bike come to me over jumps - rather than pulling up which was one of the bad habits I was trying to get out of (thanks to that man Jedi up there!)
It may be because I'm relatively useless, but it took quite a time to feel as confident as I did in SPDs. Four months later, I'm mostly there, but there were times when I wondered about going back.
I'd say try it for a bit and don't be too frustrated if you're not as 'fast' or 'comfortable' as on your SPDs. If you need a set of flats to borrow, I have spares.
Cheers all for the replies, I guess that seals it.
Al, yeah, if you don't mind I'll take you up on that, it's the techy climbs that I have on my mind (think that little roller coaster bit at Long Mynd)
Size wise though, any other thoughts, if I go 8.5 will they fit (or do I need to go for 9's?) hoping to order on line as no local stockists
I made the switch 3 years ago, much prefer flats. You do lose the "pull up" and IME you don't get anything like the same with five-tens. On techy climbs just focus on the down stroke (obviously). I find the five-tens grip fabulously well - note Jedi's comment you need to place your foot as once its down you can't just slide it around which is a good thing. I can't comment on sizing - my feet are quite wide and they fit me well. I did buy from the LBS so I could try them for size. FWIW I have Nukeproof electron pedals which work well and are good value, the little grips are buggars if your foot slips/bounced off, plenty of dents in my skins and even calfs.
I just couldn't get on with V8/V12's but found that with the generic Superstar/nukeproof pedals and Teva or Sombrio's it was magical.
It depends partly on how much you use the SPDs as a crutch, really. If you've got good footwork and weighting you'll have much less trouble, if you're used to sitting on the bike like a sack of spuds and rely on the pedals to keep you on, that'll need fixing.
You'll not be able to pull up but you can still unweight the back foot which some folks say is where most of the benefit comes from. Not sure I agree with that but you definitely lose less than you'd think
Bedds - Member
Size wise though, any other thoughts, if I go 8.5 will they fit (or do I need to go for 9's?) hoping to order on line as no local stockists.
In my experience, 5-10 size 9's fit your average size 9 foot. Never even ridden with SPD's so haven't developed the "bad habits". 5-10's and Superstar Nanotechs for me................
I swapped just over a year ago after about 8 years on SPD's. I will never go back to SPD's again as I am much more confident and happier with flats. My shins are still 100% intact, but after that comment, karma will probably get me on the next ride....
Using 5 10 Freerider VXI and the size seems to come up normal. As for the pedals, I have used the cheaper ones and both Nukeproof Electron and Superstar pedals have been grand!
I went fromn 20+ years of SPDs to flats last autumn and I am still finding bunny hopping hard. I really used to rely on the bike being attached.
I use 5:10s and Superstar Nanos.
The bike is a Large 29r Camber any my first full suspension bike.
I can hop a hardtail with no issues at all.
Any tips? (Sorry for the hijack)
@OP - Don't worry about pulling up in the pedal stroke. Impossible in flats and just as well because it's bad technique and can lead to injury.
Thanks STW. I appreciate all the comments about switching back to flats. You've made me feel more confident to stick with flats. I use SPDs at the Gym for winter indoor training but ride flats on the MTB.
Some of my riding friends have switched from flats to SPDs over the past year. I've resisted and love my Superstar flat pedals with Shimano AM41 shoes (they are definitely sized small, so buy one size larger).
I've always argued that I'd like to "get off the missile" quick if it's heading south and fear being stuck to the bike when I fall off and incurring additional ankle or leg injuries than I otherwise might. Obviously falling off sucks whether it's flats or not anyway.
I'm sure I've got my own bad habits but it sounds to me like I can avoid some extra bad habits by sticking with flats so thanks for that!
It isn't very often at all that I loose my footing on flats. I've always made a mistake when it happens or lost my concentration. Technique is critical on flats for sure.
Guess it's another of those personal preference things at the end of the day. I'm going to put it out of my mind and get on with enjoying the ride 🙂
Lovely, thanks all, I've taken the plunge and ordered some 5.10 free riders and a set of superstar pedals, I guess the learning starts here!
I'm hoping that the switch will help me gain a little confidence back which I've lost of late 🙂
I doubt you will regret it. The first ride will be interesting though
I could ride fairly happily after a few rides. Weirdly I had problems climbing and rolling drop-offs, both of which were a result of not dropping my heels. Took me a while to get used to the feeling of being off the back of the bike a bit more.
I also needed to lower my seat by 1 - 2cm when switching.
Remembering not to pull up on the pedals when I wanted to do a hop - particularly if it's for fun rather than necessity - took me a lot longer. My god did it hurt when I came back down to earth with a pedal on my shin!
Also, while I remember - none of the advice I read about 'dropping your heels' quite tied up with what felt right to me.
It's more dynamic than just dropping your heels. Quite often you'll find, particularly on flattish trail that your feet form more of a V, with the leading heel dropped and the trailing foot scooping the pedal. When the trail gets more vertical and you're really hanging off the bike, both heels will naturally be dropped.
Anyway, don't sweat the Internet advice (especially mine). Ride and you'll pick it up quick enough.
I did the same as you a few years ago. Nanos and five tens. Size 9 too and they are good on sizing.
It takes a bit of getting used to and I switched back to spd over the summer. I find I sit further back with flats and seem to move better on the bike. The grip is amazing - sometimes too good but you will find you will be a smoother rider.
I moved from a lifetime of SPDs to flats a few years ago. It does feel like more effort to climb or on the flat as you don't quite sit and spin but overall I much prefer it. You actively ride the bike more as you think more about what you do with your feet. I love the wider platform which allows you to pump more and to put more weight on the outside foot in corners, which helps make you feel more in control. I'm also more relaxed as I know if I come off the bike I won't stay attached to it - which so far seems to mean I fall off less in the first place! Five Tens and Shimano DX pedals FWIW
I'm currently in this dilemma, not rode flats since 2004 ish, clipped in since then. I'm due a new bike next month but not sure whether to get some saints flats thrown in or some xt spd's
I ride my roadie clipped in and always will.
I might give flats a go and see how I get on, gonna take a while to lift the back wheel or bunny hop me thinks,piece of cake clipped in but flats is another story all together!!
Sounds to me like the SPD makes you rely an awful lot on being able to lift the back wheel using the SPDs.
When I did the Jumps & Drops course at Llandegla last summer (highly recommended BTW) we were told this was really bad technique. You can still do it with Flats by scooping up the pedals. In fact, I was doing it and the teachers called it a "SPDJump" even though I was using Flats.
I know from my own learning experience that I read countless magazine articles, forum posts and watched many YouTube videos on the subject of Bunny Hopping and Jumping and at the end of the day I self taught myself an SPDJump with Flats which was all wrong.
My advice would be to book onto a Jumps & Drops style MTB course that will take you through from beginning to end how to do it properly. One with video feedback is handy.
You'll learn how to manually lift the front wheel and shift your weight correctly while remaining fully in control and firmly attached to the pedals.
It was the best £100 I spent on my bike. Worth every penny. All trails become more exciting and you learn to gain "free speed" by working the trail better.
I still consider myself a learner when it comes to jumps.
What I did get was the confidence to take bigger drops. Drops were stopping me on a trail. I'd come up to something and have to stop, walk down it and carry on. I'll still stop now when it's something big and new because you should look before you leap but I now know how to hit it and will walk back to the top and send it. If I can read the trail ahead quickly enough and see it's within my ability I'll send it without stopping.
I'm about to do the opposite and fit some Crank Brothers to mine i want that feeling of being attached.
Cant comment on the impacts specifically but i asked about sizing before getting my spitfires and the consensus was they come up slighly large. So i got them 1/2 a size up from what i usually get and instantly regretted it.
The size comes up identical to your standard trainers (addidas, puma, nike)
My five tens are the same size as all my other shoes. I would say there sizing is right.
I made the switch for two reasons: 1) I had a fall which, while clipless was in no way to blame, made me think that flats might work better for me, and 2) I prefer the simplicity, and the ability to, if I am just playing around on the front street with my kids in my jeans and trainers, hop on my bike without having to run in an change shoes.
I love the flats. I can't remember which ones I have (they are black on one side and white on the other... that helps, doesn't it!), but have had no trouble making the technique adjustment, and the pedals allow me to do everything I was hoping they would.
I switched to flats after 10 years of spds, broke my wrist on first ride.
I blame the pedals, if I was clipped I'd have just landed in a heap with the bike, instead I superman'd.
Hmm, deffo the pedals fault.
Back with spds now. Skills course using spds made me realise there's not much in it, just whatever you're comfortable with.
It depends partly on how much you use the SPDs as a crutch, really. If you've got good footwork and weighting you'll have much less trouble, if you're used to sitting on the bike like a sack of spuds and rely on the pedals to keep you on, that'll need fixing.
waves 😀
I switched last summer. Its taken a good six months for me to get totally comfortable on flats, to the point where I prefer them for just about everything off-road.
I hated them to begin with but I'd just spent £100 on pedals and shoes so I was determined to stick with them!
Initially i did everything wrong, my feet would come off when changing gear and climbing - forget about jumping and hopping. But I learned to drop my heels and use my weight in the right way and started to enjoy riding the flats. I'm glad I made the change its nice to be able to ride both types of pedals comfotably
One bit of advice i'd give, is that when you're trying to get used to flats, exaggerate all your movements. Get used to really cranking the bike over (pushing down through your inside arm, and turning your hips), or popping the front wheel (again, pump down first, and let the bike come up to you as your mass rebounds), or pushing through and forwards to help the back of the bike come up to you once you've unweighted the front.
As a result you will automatically find a more neutral position on the bike, and as a handy side effect, you should be able to carry more speed around/over terrain as you leverage your weight a bit more than perhaps you were used to doing on SPDs 😉
I see a lot of riders on SPDs who seem to take the "fixed feet" bit to mean "fixed position" on their bikes.......
I've got to be honest, I'm dreading the next couple of months 🙁 I know that I have poor technique and want to improve that, it seems the suggestion of doing a course will help with it, interestingly I was watching a few 'how to bunny hop' type videos last night, my first thought was 'uh oh' 😉
When I did the Jumps & Drops course at Llandegla last summer (highly recommended BTW) we were told this was really bad technique. You can still do it with Flats by scooping up the pedals. In fact, I was doing it and the teachers called it a "SPDJump" even though I was using Flats.
Did you ask them why it was a really bad technique? Sounds like BS to me.. There is no real rights or wrongs.. everyone rides a bike differently and if the execution results in the same outcome then it can hardly be classed as wrong.
I've just made the swap to try flats for the first time. I'm really enjoying it, though only had two rides, one at the BMX track and some tame XC stuff. Off to BPW on Sunday though so that should be interesting. My 5Ten Freerider XVi came up small. I usually fit an 8 (42) but needed a 7.5 (41.5).
I've got to be honest, I'm dreading the next couple of months
It's a good job you've got such supportive riding buddies 🙂
Yeah exactly Al.. I can imagine it will be quiet support and not a single laugh as I crash yet again 😉
No of course not (he says charging the camera!)
Did you ask them why it was a really bad technique? Sounds like BS to me.. There is no real rights or wrongs.. everyone rides a bike differently and if the execution results in the same outcome then it can hardly be classed as wrong.
Hands up! No, I didn't...
I'll be listening harder and asking more questions this time because I've booked onto the follow-up course (fingers crossed for no more snow and ice this week). I'm going to be interested to see what bad habits I've picked up since I did the previous course.
MBR magazine has a new technique section started last Month with Brendog. In this month's issue he says "Ride flat pedals - that way you can always get your foot down, or throw a leg out to keep upright".
I don't think anyone is saying there's anything wrong with Flats or SPDs. People ride both in all disciplines of MTB. I personally feel (as a relatively new learner - 18 months or so) that flats are easier to get started on and don't allow any "cheating" to deal with more difficult obstacles or bumpy bits. Some Pro's use SPDs but they already have perfect technique to begin with. IMHO I think it's better to learn on flats. Like anyone else here, I have some shin scars from a slipped pedal or two.
I rode Antur Stiniog for the first time a few weeks ago on flats and my feet didn't came off unintentionally once. My eyeballs were on stalks though! What a place. 🙂
I normally ride Llangollen mountains off-piste (looking forward to Singletrack Issue 96), Coed-y-Brenin and Llandegla with the occasional visit to Eastridge and Penmachno. Need to get to the Marin too soon. I've entered the Welsh Enduro Series.
Each to their own. Happy riding. I see no obvious reasons to switch to SPDs so I'm sticking with flats.
Gave myself 10 rides after 25 years on spds but after 4 I was hooked and stopped making pull-up errors. Am now faster and more confident...
Still use SPDs on road bike obviously, but don't feel that this has suffered in any way.