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Okay so yes I ride flats on my MTB now, but it is still fairly essential to be clipped in on the road bike and I currently ride with Look Keo's. But due to their one sided design, I am finding that clipping in can be much more of a pain in the arse than it used to be back in the days of my old MTB when I wore Shimano SPD's with the double sided pedal, and clipping in first time every time was never a problem.
So does anyone ride mountain bike type double sided SPD's on their road bike, and if so, have you noticed a loss in performance? Also, anyone found a reasonably stiff road bike shoe, that is compatible with aforementioned SPD's that does not make walking around off the bike a total chore?
Yep. Can't see any negatives personally. Use Shimano XC7 for pretty much all riding.
Yes, no and don't worry about it.
Or learn to toe roll with road cleats.
Roll the pedal over with your toe then slide in to the cleat.
My old trek us postal replica had them had them as standard, some bulletproof bontrager which are still ready to use now. I preferred them over winter to be honest when it was bad terrain roadside etc and found it better when having to get off the bike for any reason. Better weather I do prefer the road type on my other bike but I do like the dual sided spd over winter mainly for that reason. On the bike they felt fine too.
On my commuter I was running Shimano spds rather than spd-sls when I had a lot of junctions to go through. So much easier to click into.
Running look keo / Shimano spd sl on my road bikes these days - my commute is now more of a straight cycle track with a low amount of junctions. <br /><br />
I don’t think there’s a huge amount in it, in terms of efficiency etc. Maybe with mega miles you’re more likely to get a hot spot with mtb spds on the road perhaps as your weight is less spread across the foot / most mtb soles are going to have a little more flex than road ones. <br /><br />
I’d just run whatever you find easiest tbh.
Ive only used my MTB SPD shoes on my road bike. Simply because shoes are expensive and it takes months to find some that fit. Even then they need to be professionally adjusted. Always dread the day they need replacing.
Altra, please make SPD shoes.
As with others above, don't want different shoes so have Crank Brothers Candy on MTBs and Gravel and Egg Beaters on roadie.
No idea how efficient that is Vs dedicated road shoes and pedals, but that's not really a concern for me.
I used SPD-SL for a long time but now my road bike is also a dual purpose gravel bike, I run SPD's. With proper stiff soles it makes no real difference. I just wear XC shoes, they're basically just road shoes with a bit of tread so they're easier to walk in.
I use Candy 7s and Shimano XC7s on my road bike. Plenty stiff but I can walk to the cafe.
I’ve always used proper SPD-SL and road shoes on my pure road bike, but when I built the Crux which probably spends 50% of its time on the road, I use SPD and RX8 shoes and haven’t even thought about it. It used to be that SPD’s gave hot spots over long use for me but these RX8’s are like slippers!
Yes especially for commuting as you get to walk normally once you get off the bike
As above RX8's are brilliant for road use. Done many a century with no issues.
Started with Candy’s years back, no real issues but going to Keo after was a big improvement.
Use Speedplay these days and still never fall over in pubs or cafes, they also solve the double side thing not that it was ever really an issue once you get the knack.
If you’re in situations where you’re clipping in and out a lot or walking (commuting, traffic lights etc) then SPD may make sense, otherwise the larger platform of proper road pedals/cleats is much better imo, just feels more planted and helps with putting the power down.
I've used Candy's a lot on road bikes, especially for commuting, touring and for "winter" footwear. I also have SPD-SLs on my "quick" bike in the "summer" months. I can't honestly say there's any power/efficiency improvement with the latter, but then I don't have a power meter, nor am I analysing my ride data enough to see a difference. It does "feel" like it should be better but that could just come from things generally being better when it's warm, the roads are dry and I'm spinning along imagining I look like a Pro.
Speedplay as Haze. Well easy in and and out, nice float options, fine walking about in and feel well planted with a half decent road shoe. Nice and simple to service and spare parts aplenty.
You need speed play pedals for double sided road use
that said though, I also use spds and I can’t tell any difference. You mention stiff shoes..I have recently swapped my old spesh rimes for a pair of ultra stiff spesh recon (apparently the sole is as stiff as their top road shoes), and I can’t feel the difference there either!
Ive pretty much always used SPD's on all my road bikes
From 13k full on race bikes to 1.5k Planet X gravel bike, they have all used Shimano spd M540 pedals
Did dabble with some Speedplay Zero pedals a few years ago, they were ok but still a pain to walk in, a hint of dirt could jam them up and even though the pedals were very light the cleats were not
Reason i run Shimano M540 SPD's is its cheaper and easier to have 4 bikes running the same pedal, so only one pair of summer shoes and one pair of winter boots are needed, did look at upgrading the 13K bike to XTR SPD's but at £100 for a pair to save around 38 grams i decide to stick with the M540's
Added bonus is the M540's are pretty indestructable, never need servicing and can be had for under £50
Time ATACs on my commuter - can there wear shoes that can be walked in far more sensibly than road cleats.
540s with specialized comp for the last 15 years.
Regular 50miles each weekend and occasional 125 milers, all good.
I use crank brothers candy on all bikes, MTB,gravel and road. As above. Comfort MTB shoes for everything.
I used SPD-SLs on my roadbike for quite a few years but changed back to SPDs a while ago. Far less faff getting clipped in at big roundabouts/junctions, feels safer IMHO. Plus miles better for walking in off bike. I just use XC mtb shoes with them. Haven't noticed any downsides, personally.
Question for those highlighting the difficulty walking in road shoes/cleats, how far are you walking compared to how much time you’re spending pedalling?
It's all I use. I tried 3 bolt road pedals when I got back into road riding but just couldn't get on with them and went back to SPD's. My current road bike has the ED 500s pictured above and they are excellent.
XT SPDs on my road and gravel bikes. Most of my mates are the same.
Why is everybody obsessed with walking when road biking... I walk from my house to the garage, and then into the cafe and back out. The other 99% of the ride I'm on the bike.
I found MTB SPD's shite when honking out the saddle, road pedals for me all the way.
I switched back to spds on my road bikes at the beginning of this year, and have done multiple long distance (up to 1200k) rides without a problem. Lake GX238 shoes are plenty stiff enough.
I suppose if all you do is Sunday cafe rides then Keos or Spd-sl are fine.
Completely the opposite opinion to benman: I would hate skittering around while walking around at cafe stops (on some surfaces it is plain dangerous), I have adjusted my cleats to the right tension so I don’t get unplanned releases, and overall I can’t see any point to road cleats since the much more robust and versatile SPDs became available.
Our club is over 300 strong, and I reckon between a third and half of us use SPDs on at least one road bike. A lot of us have come to the dark side from MTB or CX, a lot of us don't want to buy extra pairs of shoes for different clipless methods, a lot of us don't want to slip on a hard cafe floor and lose our coffee/cake/elbow.
I can't say I ever felt any practical benefit when I tried "proper" roadie pedals, though I tend to use quite stiff CX style SPD shoes.
It’s horses for courses. 3 bolt road pedals and shoes are tangibly better on the road. The platform is wider and longer, meaning you rock around less. The shoes are stiffer for a more fixed position. The stack height is lower for greater efficiency. The pedals are weighted so that they ‘offer’ themselves up as you clip in. If yours don’t, it might be that you need new bearings or different pedals. I use SPD SL pedals which are better in that respect than the Look Keos that I previously used. Since the cleats are generally plastic, you get less of the annoying metal-on-metal squeaking that can plague Shimano SPDs in particular.
In reality on your average road ride, you tend to clip in and out fairly infrequently (and you can generally time yourself approaching traffic lights to clip out even less) and you don’t tend to need to walk much, so the time spent pedalling (where the benefits are significant) vastly outweigh the drawbacks of walking stability and ease of clipping in for a very brief time
Are SPDs ‘OK’ on the road? Yes, with a few caveats. I use them on my gravel bike and tend to do quite a few tarmac miles on most rides. The caveats are:
1) You do rock a little more on the pedals.
2) With the wrong shoes (ie not stiff enough) you can get hotspots from the smaller contact area.
3) You need very stiff shoes. I use Sidi Tigers which basically use the same carbon road sole as their road shoes with some (not much) grip.
4) They are heavier, but when you combine the total bike and rider weight it adds up to less than 0.1% overall.
If the shoe sole is stiff you'll not notice the difference.
Still got Look Deltas on my old road bikes but the CX and MTB's run XT SPD. Tempted to move the others over but the road bikes have 'period' Looks, C Record Carbon and Look Carbo Pro, so rather nice pedals.
time ATAC on both MTB and road bike.
MTB pedals on all bikes, no faffing about with which shoes go with which bike, many shoes and many bikes and any combination is fine
Question for those highlighting the difficulty walking in road shoes/cleats, how far are you walking compared to how much time you’re spending pedalling?
All depends on whether my chain snaps when I am 10 miles from home. That was a long walk home and very glad I had shoes I could walk in. I don't take tools with me so if anything goes wrong then I am walking home. Have only had to twice in 20 years and both times was a broken chain (which was my fault for breaking and rejoining far too often as I was changing gear ratios quite often back then)
So for the one day in a decade walk home (have you not got a mobile phone and somebody understanding on the other end with a car?!) you are willing to sacrifice pedalling efficiency for the other 3,652 days? This sounds like true STW logic!
I wouldn’t fancy a 10 mile walk home in any cycling shoes
I would definitely strap a small multi tool and tube under my saddle rather than ride SPDs on the road permanently.
Chain tool and a quick link, 5 mins at most to save a long walk…surprised that you're happy to leave the house without means to fix the easiest of issues, regardless of pedal choice!
Time Atac on all my bikes. Did the Rapha Manchester to London just fine, the Cardiff 200 and the festive 500 all in SPDs.
3 bolt road pedals and shoes are tangibly better on the road.
Not saying you are wrong, I have never tried them, but I I have never got dropped and thought, if only my pedals were better.
you are willing to sacrifice pedalling efficiency
How much, what's the sacrifice?
I don't have an aero bike or deep carbon rims (due to a shallow wallet) and often struggle on group rides on fast flat sections, not convinced my lack of road pedals has any noticeable impact.
My point is that SPDs are OK, but road pedals are better. It's horses for courses. You can quite happily ride SPDs on the road without a problem, but road pedals provide advantages. Not sufficient to 'hold you back', but definitely there is something in it.
You don't miss what you have never had, but given free choice without financial or practical constraint (ie only wanting 1 pair of shoes), road pedals on the the road and off road pedals off the road would be the best choice.
Put it this way - most roadies ride road pedals without question. The debate around whether SPDs are OK on the road generally (but no exclusively) gets raised by MTBers.
Difficult to quantify, personally if I was doing crits involving sprinting out of multiple corners then I’d fatigue quicker on SPD.
Cafe rides probably no bother at all.
I just don’t see walking as a valid reason (unless to and from the office, flights of stairs etc). In all my years I’ve yet to see a roadie lying on a cafe floor like on a beetle on its back.
Obviously opinions differ on this subject, which should tell the OP there is not much in it. So get the SPDs if you value walking being easier and safer%
SPD-SL are a little bit better, for me, on account of being more stable side to side. But it's marginal, and ride what you like. I would not use them for commuting, but I did use them when I had an office in Bristol.
@solarider "Put it this way – most roadies ride road pedals without question."
And there's the rub. Roadies as a dedicated species do tend to be really quite hidebound and set in their ways. If you're not actually racing at the very sharp end, then a decent pair of xc shoes and an SPD pedal will give away absolutely nothing relevant and are significantly safer in a few situations. It's a no-brainer for me and like many others, my road bike runs XT level SPDs. I do prefer the slightly flattened contact areas on the body on this compact SPD and have never suffered a hotspot in the many, many 100mile plus rides, sportives and tours I've done.
The debate around whether SPDs are OK on the road generally (but no exclusively) gets raised by MTBers.
Most of the people I ride with on the road use SPDs and very few of them have come from an mtb background. Personally, I have noticed very little difference between the two systems so opted for convenience.
Conversely, most I ride with don’t 🙂
My point is that SPDs are OK, but road pedals are better
And my point was, are they, how and by how much? Just keeping saying they are are better doesn't convince me.
The fact that racers use them is fairly irrelevant as I don't race and even so if you look at most cross riders they use Shimano pedals rather than the much better at clearing mud options as they are sponsored by Shimano....
I don't doubt road pedals feel better, what evidence is that they increase power/efficiency?
Sorry, roadies choosing to use them is not relevant, they'll do what's marketed at them.
I’d likely go SPD or similar on CX, for the mud clearance but also as you wouldn’t often have the rolling momentum and time to tip the pedal with single-sided entry in some of the tighter sections.
You won’t quantify how they’re better, but subjectively they are…just how you use them may not matter so much 👍
And my point was, are they, how and by how much?
This. I "feel" like they should be better but I can't say I've ever noticed a real difference. Any lateral rocking that SPD-SLs help with can also be reduced with caged SPDs or Candys - especially if you fit the little height adjuster tabs to the latter.
They are 1.265% better, because. Fact.
All joking aside since you want something more tangible:
More stable because of their size so they rock less - hard to quantify by how much this impacts power transfer, but it definitely feels nicer. The contact area of a small SPD cleat vs a large road cleat in considerably smaller. In the more fixed position that people adopt on a road bike, less movement is a good thing bio-mechanically.
They squeak less because they don't have metal to metal interface - again, hard to put a number of silence, but no squeak has to be better than none, and all 5 pairs of my SPDs suffer from cleat to pedal interface noise from time to time.
They have a lower stack height - there is lots of evidence around shorter cranks being bio-mechanically preferable, and stack height is a measurable factor in rotational circumference, which impacts hip travel, cadence, power etc etc (Google this one - there's plenty of evidence out there that even a 2.5mm crank length adjustment makes a difference and the difference in stack height between a road pedal plus sole vs an MTB pedal plus sole thickness is considerably more than 2.5mm).
The larger surface area of the cleat creates less possibility for hotspots - doesn't effect every rider, so again hard to quantify but you would certainly be more comfortable without hotspots.
They are lighter - not by much, but it is a fact and marginal gains and all that.
The shoes are less compromised and designed to hold you foot more rigidly - an MTB shoe has to be designed with more movement from the rider as he/she moves all over the bike plus hike-a-bike, whereas road shoes are designed to hold one of the most complex parts of the body with the most bones in a small area (apart the inner ear admittedly) to remain static and therefore give better power transfer.
Just to be clear, there is no law against using SPDs on the road and plenty of people do it, and the original question has been thoroughly answered - it is perfectly doable. It's just that if all other things were equal, the only compromises from road pedals (walking, single sided entry and potentially multiple shoes for multiple bikes) are generally thought to be outweighed by the advantages above given the amount of walking and clipping in that one undertakes on the average road ride vs the amount of time one spends actually pedalling.
Depending on which source you choose on Google, the stack height difference is negligible or even lower for SPD style pedals (I spent a lot of time faffing trying to replicate saddle height on gravel and road bikes).
Also, am pretty sure GCN did something reasonably scientific looking to "prove" no difference in efficiency between SPD/road SPD and flat pedals, although I think they acknowledged that the ex-pro they used for the test might have had such a good pedal stroke as to nullify the advantage of being clipped in. Either way I'm pretty certain the idea that you could usefully "pull up" on an SPD has been debunked.
BUT I recall trying to find flat pedal shoes as stiff/light as road shoes and came up empty handed. I'm certain most of the benefits come down to the construction of the shoe 🙄
Sidi Tiger or Drako for the win if you want stiff shoes for using SPDs on the road.
Stack height for an SPD is 17mm, plus a shoe which tend to be thicker soled in the MTB world. Stack height for an SPD SL is 14mm, plus a shoe which tend to be thinner. All in, it's easily 5mm or more, and people get really particular about much less than that on crank length.
Since there is so much opinion and it's Christmas, shall we just say that using SPDs on the road is OK, but that people might prefer road systems who aren't simply herd mentality idiots who give little thought to it (Tour de France winners as an example)?
I think the pull up in clips is minimal, not conscious (on my part at least) but enough to provide a sufficient assist that I notice is missing when switching to flats.
For me I find SPD less comfortable over time if exposed to repeat accelerations.
Seems like the answer is, whatever works for you, works.
Stack height for an SPD is 17mm, plus a shoe which tend to be thicker soled in the MTB world. Stack height for an SPD SL is 14mm, plus a shoe which tend to be thinner. All in, it’s easily 5mm, and people get really particular about les than that on crank length.
But a Look Keo is 17.3mm, so for a vast number of people the difference is still negligible (Keo must be one of the most prevalent designs out there?). Not sure I believe an MTB shoe would be any thicker than a road shoe, I've messed about with enough shoes to know that the construction of the soles etc. all appears very similar (in fact the depth of the T nuts that I had to replace in the sole if my Lake road shoes makes me suspect they are thicker than my Giro and Specialized MTB shoes).
Don't get me wrong though, I'll take every marginal gain going and won't be swapping my Looks for SPDs any time soon 😎
Only tangible thing I found int he brief period I used sl's was the astronomical rate that the cleats would wear at.
Use spds on all my bikes now
there’s plenty of evidence out there that even a 2.5mm crank length adjustment makes a difference
Last time ths came up here, there really wasn't! OK maybe a few percent at extremes eg 100mm.
I really don't get how stack height can be significant, your ankle isn't rotating enough.
I full agree with andrewh. I have some lightweight carbon road bike and all have SPDs - got questioned in a road bike shop when I spec'd XTR pedals on the build 🙂 All shoes fit all bikes and they are double sided and the walk in the cafe is much less risky.
Since there is so much opinion and it’s Christmas, shall we just say that using SPDs on the road is OK, but that people might prefer road systems who aren’t simply herd mentality idiots who give little thought to it
This is agreed. I am just genuinely interested in actual benefits. I would guess more secure for sprinting, judging by how difficult it looks to get out of them as most using them seem to unclip then stop, whereas with my MTB pedals I stop and then unclip. I would give some a try but wonky knees and hips made me stick to time Atac and the extra float ( for better or worse, too scared to change).
you are willing to sacrifice pedalling efficiency for the other 3,652 days
Is there any actual proof you do lose efficiency? Even if the sole flexed a little (and they don't on stiffer shoes) it'd be absorbing almost no energy (they don't get warm). Road shoes feel more locked in, but I doubt there's any efficiency benefits or they'll be used at the pointy end of xc racing (where unclipping isn't a thing) as well
For me its more a footwear driven decision than performance based - I fitted them because I had one pair of MTB shoes to start with across 3 bikes (MT7 shoes, M520 pedals on gravel and XC and M320 on commuter), I have wooden floors in my house which I didn't want to damage/skitter about on based on observations of roadie mates. The MT7s are all day comfy to walk about in if necessary.
On longer rides I found I got hotspots and then really sore feet at the contact points after about 2 hours on the MT7s so I bought a stiffer carbon soled shoe (Giro Sector) which seems to have fixed that. They have a decent sole can also sill cope with straightforward hike-a-bike for 'gravel' rides but are too stiff for confidently scrambling up rocks - not that you do that often on a road ride.... I do find that the stiffer sole gives better power transfer on climbs but that could be imagined...
That said, if I ever did get a dedicated road bike, out of FOMO as much as anything, I'd probably look at roadie pedals to clip into my pristine white roadie shoes (only in summer obvs) 😀
Is there any actual proof you do lose efficiency?
I haven't seen any studies but consider this. On a bicycle, your legs are there to spin a set of cranks which only turn in one axis. Any movement away from that axis is inefficient. Some people require a little float to allow for some movement off that axis since the entire length of the leg is rarely totally aligned. Nevertheless, the less movement away from directly inline with the cranks the better.
Think of any machine (say an engine) where power is applied. A great amount of time, effort and design is spent on keeping pistons inline with as little play away from the vertical axis as possible. Now think of your legs as the pistons and the same thing applies.
Are there any stats for SPD-SL related cafe incidents?!
When I was road racing, I much preferred the connected feel of a good road shoe and pedal combination which matters when you’re trying to squeeze out the watts on an uphill sprint, for everything else it rarely mattered. In winter, I generally wear 2 hole cleats and MTB boots - more time spent faffing out on your feet, dealing with punctures and mechanicals going into cafes rather than trashing a pair of carbon soled disco slippers. These days, most of my riding is on gravel bikes or MTB, all fitted with Time pedals and footwear to suit the season.
I used to use MTB SPDs and much preferred when I switched to SPD-SL. I find I'm hunting more on the little spd "platforms" whereas with the SLs I got in first try most of the time. Could just be down to pedal choice though, mine are the little ice cube-esque block ones. Also the bigger cleat helps with locating it I think. They felt a lot stiffer and the pressure seems more spread over the base of the foot.
Think I'm convinced enough to give it a go. I've never liked the feel of the Looks to be honest and would prefer the double sided clip I used to have on the MTB. We do a lot of riding over in Spain and they have a particular style of stone pavement that is lethal in road cleats.
The Shimano XC7 someone recommended look nice. Any other options for shoes? Guessing either a very stiff and lightweight MTB shoe or a road shoe that will take the 4 bolt MTB SPD cleats (if there is indeed such a thing)?
Stuck some Look Xtracks on my road bike when I started using it off road.
I had SPD on my road bike and stiff MTB shoes for years.
I bough a fancy carbon road bike and went for road shoes and pedals.
I'm not racing or doing speedy club rides. The main difference I notice is just how annoying it is walking in the road shoes. Just off the bike into a cafe requires concentration.
The shoes are good, light and comfy enough for me for 130 miles.
Ever time I walk any where or have to pull out of a junction I mutter about going back to SPD.
Personally I've had a couple of incidents in traffic of not being able to clip in quick enough with the single sided Looks to clear a junction with enough margin for error - situations where the plastic cleat has slipped clean off the shiny plastic/carbon pedal. Left me in a rather compromised situation. Never ever had with with my old SPD's hence one of the reasons why I'm now looking to switch back. Also nothing worse than trying to start uphill and not being able to clip in straight away and without thinking.