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Just back from a cycle to Morrison's to fill up the panniers. It struck me that people do seem to be giving cyclists a bit more space when they pass but they're doing it by driving on the wrong side of the road, into oncoming traffic.
This happened twice today, on a fairly short trip. Both times, the oncoming cars had to brake sharply to let the passing car pull back in.
Obvs, the passers should be waiting a few seconds until it's safe but I wondered if all the social media stuff from regional police forces about giving cyclists room is finally getting through, but perhaps in the wrong way?
Don't do a lot of road cycling but i've noticed no difference. Cars, vans, buses in particular all still ignoring it.
Thinking about it though, lorry drivers do seem to be giving more room.
Well, my anecdotal evidence is an oncoming car deliberately trying to squeeze me off a narrow road this week (where there was plenty room for a car and bike to pass safely) so I'm going to say no, I don't think it is making a difference.
Yeah, I stay off the roads as much as possible but sometimes it's just easier (especially with panniers full of delicate foodstuffs). Not just today I've noticed it - seems to be a creeping trend round here (NE England, where the campaign is being pushed quite hard by two forces).
Still getting close passes too but perhaps not as many as usual. Maybe it's just the sunshine...
Not making any difference as far as I can tell.
It struck me that people do seem to be giving cyclists a bit more space when they pass but they're doing it by driving on the wrong side of the road, into oncoming traffic.
Are people really doing this? We really need to make the driving test harder if there are people stupid enough to think this is the right thing to do.
Yeah really! One lass in a little white car gave me oodles of space by driving straight at a bus coming the other way. Me and the bus driver both did the sanctimonious head shake 🙂
I can't say that I've noticed sadly including (as mentioned above) on coming cars heading straight at me.
I always remember that on of my teachers at school (or college I can't remember exactly, it was that long ago) had a fold out orange plastic arm on the back of his bike; I don't think that I'd want one on mine but it always seemed to work for him.
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The problem is, everyone has such an over developed sense of entitlement these days. Nothing should get in their way, slow them down, inconvenience them, or in anyway impact on their lives.
There's a Tesco Express near us with a good size car park so there's always space. So many entitled nuggets still park on the kerb outside blocking the view into and out of the car park, or park on the road of the car park, over the pedestrian crossing because it's ten steps closer.
People shouldn't be allowed cars so freely.
The problem is, everyone has such an over developed sense of entitlement these day
This, sick to death of people with no kids parking in 'parent parking' at supermarkets rather than parking a tiny bit further away. Or parking in disabled bays at the local supermarket to nip in to Greggs rather than walking around the corner... What's wrong with people these days? Just lazy and a lack of care and thought for others.
Two close passes in the past two rides from me, proper 'fuzz me' close, one was a tractor with a trailer that nearly had me.
Generally no different, but had a twunt driver jump a blatant red light this afternoon, meaning I had to slam on the brakes while starting to cross the shared path Northam Bridge crossing.
The attitude of drivers is not helped by adverts like the one below (screenshot taken whilst reading this very thread)
It basically says "Don't bother strapping your kids in properly, but you can get 15% off the cost of your car hire, so that's Ok"
[url= https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2EZ1JOiahZBcVhMMl9mQUlTNkk/view?usp=drivesdk ]clicky linky[/url]
Nothing has changed round here. Some drivers pass ok, others too close, some overtake when traffic's coming the other way...same as it ever was.
Yeah it's going really well.
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This, sick to death of people with no kids parking in 'parent parking' at supermarkets rather than parking a tiny bit further away
Don't you leave them a note?
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Where did the phrase "sense of entitlement" come from? Seems to be in every other thread in here these days.
My local DVSA test centre has a recently completed cycle route passing straight in front of it. I know of a few people who have failed their tests for not giving enough space to cyclists in the areas where the cycle route isn't completely segregated. You'd think the instructors would be drilling this in to their heads before they ever get near going for their license but apparently not.
I suppose one upside is there's very little chance of going for your test around here and not coming across at least one cyclist in the hour so the people passing might have had a decent instructor they actually listened to.
The downside to the cycle lanes is the fact that there seems to be more people riding in traffic following the cycle route but not actually in the segregated cycle lane than ever before. It seems to wind drivers up and give them a 'if they arent going to use the cycle lane then screw them' mentality. Couple this with the reduction in lane width the cycle path has caused makes me think it's only a matter of time before I hear about a death on the route...
I have noticed more people giving me space but not paying attention of what's in the incoming lane.
However, others still pass too close.
Can't win.
Dez, I'm failing to see your point. Three cyclists on the wrong side of the road. Actually, yes, seeing the entitlement now...
Once again, the tribal defence of cyclists at all costs.
Angeldust - yes they definitely do that, often enough here that if I see a bike come Ming the opposite way I expect the following car to either squeeze through with no gap or ignore me and make me adjust my speed!
The test is not the problem (and retesting would have little impact because people CAN drive sensibly if they put their mind to it , like if an examiner is sitting next to them and it seems to matter) but the go into autopilot the rest of the time and have become programmed/conditioned that when you see a cyclist, tractor etc you push the right pedal to get past them not the middle one.
@belugabob - why have you assumed there is something wrong in that photo? What I see there is a car pulled over to look at a nice view somewhere.
To be fair, that sense of 'entitlement' exists with cyclists too, particularly when groups seem to get into training mode and start to treat public roads as training tracks.
I'm also aware that I can be a bit aggressive with my cycling around badly behaved drivers which probably winds them up further. There are good drivers and bad drivers and good cyclists and bad cyclist (and probably every shade of grey in between).
Patience seems to be a key player too; patience seems to be inversely proportional to the speed you're going at the time. I've seen a couple of very, very close calls recently as vehicles have accelerated past me on the wrong side of the road around a blind bend only to meet traffic coming the other way.
"To be fair", someone thought they could force me off the road with their car. The behaviour of other drivers and cyclists is irrelevant.
Hence that recent London bike/truck video. Many cyclists seem to believe they have a right to get to the front of any stationery queue regardless of the potential outcomes.PJay - Member
To be fair, that sense of 'entitlement' exists with cyclists too
Had the worst case of road rage yesterday on a group road ride.
I wont go into all the details but the driver came alongside us (in single file) leaning on her horn.
She then nearly took a motorbike out by being on the wrong side of the road overtaking on a blind bend.
When we then stopped at the traffic lights and the argument started, we were called selfish . I told her she needed some patience as we were doing 25-30 mph and she said she had been stuck behind us for 40 minutes.... we left the café 10 minutes before and had only been on that bit of road for 6 minutes...... sigh.
Many cyclists seem to believe they have a right to get to the front of any stationery queue regardless of the potential outcomes.
It's London everyone does it mate.
Many [s]cyclists[/s] [b]stupid ***** using different modes of transport [/b]seem to believe they have a right to get to the front of any stationery queue regardless of the potential outcomes [b]and they'll blame everyone else when they come unstuck or have a near miss[/b].
😛
Don't you leave them a note?
Crying!! I'll nick that idea...
My normal come back is 'if you park over there and walk in (pointing) you be a tiny bit less fat, as let's face it, they are normally fat....
I'm still not convinced.
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I think it's working to an extent - more people are leaving more room, but there are still idiots.
Lots of people are giving me the 1.5m, regardless of oncoming traffic. And that includes two such overtakes by Derbyshire Constabulary vehicles in the last month.
I have just ordered one of these though:
[url= https://spin11.com/page/spin11shop#!/Stayin-Alive-at-1-5-short-sleeved-jersey/p/85377786/category=23622817 ]Staying Alive at 1.5 jersey[/url]
Edit - makes more sense if you follow the link for the rear view 🙄
@belugabob - why have you assumed there is something wrong in that photo? What I see there is a car pulled over to look at a nice view somewhere.
I haven't assumed there is something wrong with the photo, but I am concerned that, as it's a photo, it's not really possible to determine whether the vehicle is moving or not. The problem comes when people see the opposite to you, and think that it is moving, and that hanging out of the window (and, thereby, probably not being strapped in correctly) is acceptable behaviour.
I reckon the driver hanging out of the window is a clue it's stopped.
I'm not sure it's entirely helpful, we saw several groups and stragglers on one of the straights outside our wee village. Whilst the drivers stuck behind them were all behaving very commendably, the fact that all of them were attempting to give a whole lane to some fairly confident and controlled looking roadies meant that very few drivers were able to pass, and a large queue was developing.
It was a shame as undoubtedly this would have been fueling a lot of anti-cyclist sentiment, and worse yet, the cyclists didn't look the sort who would object to sharing half the lane with a car going past at 30, I know I certainly don't.
I don't think it's helpful for a happy co-existence with other road users if they feel legally obliged/threatened to give us a entire lane to pass, nor if there are cyclists out there using the roads who are so lacking in confidence that they *need* motorists to give them this much space. As usual it needs some sort of compromise (cyclists getting used to sharing the road, motorists not passing at speed and 30cm distance) etc. etc.
I'm just trying to do my part (following what I read from someone on here) of giving drivers a big wave of acknowledgement if they don't pass like an idiot, and in fairness that is most of them.
the forcing on coming traffic to brake/onto pavement seems to be treating overtaking a bike like some kind of passing a parked car thing... It's often accompanied by the follow my leader once the oncoming car is stopped or forced off the road without realising the "parked car" is still closing the gap they want to drive though. 🙄
I reckon the driver hanging out of the window is a clue it's stopped.
Unless it's left hand drive - which will be the case for a huge proportion of the destinations where somebody from the UK would hire a car.
What close pass Initiative?
Well I know because I am a cyclist and the web has published it but otherwise there is nothing. It needs telly, a few high profile people getting swatted by cars etc and "ideally" one of these being a death. (you know what I mean)
One mat is bugger all good and it'll be used in towns where its easy to stop people. Stuff that, its high speed rural roads where close passing at speed happens.
Complete waster of money and energy IMO without huge publicity as above.
Unless it's left hand drive - which will be the case for a huge proportion of the destinations where somebody from the UK would hire a car.
Yeah that was my point it looks left hand drive.
squirrelking -
Dez, ... Three cyclists on the wrong side of the road. Actually, yes, seeing the entitlement now...
Huh? Might want to read my post again..
Huh? Might want to read my post again..
Proper WTF moment there. Apologies, I honestly thought you had posted the one below!
Anyway, DRAC! What I said before...
A big part of the problem is people feel like they absolutely MUST pass as soon as possible. I was descending at over 40mph the other day, the same speed as the car in front. Car behind comes past, then brakes as soon as they pull in front, forcing me to slow down! I have had cars do the same thing, literally overtake, and the SECOND they get in front, stop - because they've reached their destination. Plenty of people willing to leave loads of space and pull right across onto the other side of the road, on blind bends! There are some real deep psychological problems on our roads, which will not be solved by a campaign asking for more space. It's quite a complicated issue, embedded into the culture.
A lot of people are great. I hear a loads about how things were better when there was less traffic, etc. I'm not convinced. The older generations are often the least considerate, and I get the impression most people mean well in current times, but there is a collective consciousness on the road that determines a pressure which leads to some stupid decisions.
Can't say I've noticed a step change up in the North East. Same old really. Some close passing some fine. I have seen a fair few of the "let's have a head on collision" brigade as well mind both while driving and cycling.. scary the lack of awareness to even try it. The ones that really get me though are the ones that attempt to overtake when there is nowhere to go and just hang around alongside as you're keeping pace with traffic. Oh and close passing when there's nowt coming the other way is extremely worrying - huge downside and no upside so either they're thick or doing it on purpose or both.
Had a cracker a while back where a learner really squeezed me as I was overtaking parked cars.. all the instructor did was point his pen at the mirror on the passenger side (window was open). Arr aye cheers mate - just let the 17 year old jam me between your car and a row of parked cars and then point at me in the mirror AFTER the incident.. hopefully it was a test and they failed.
What campaign? I haven't seen it and clearly none of the drivers around where I live have either as the problem is getting worse rather than better.
Yeah that was my point it looks left hand drive.
Then your point makes no sense.
To be fair, that sense of 'entitlement' exists with cyclists too, particularly when groups seem to get into training mode and start to treat public roads as training tracks.
It seems universal....
As a parent/childseat person I feel "entitled" to some space in the supermarket .. as a cyclist I feel "entitled" to ride 2 abreast etc.
I expect somewhere to lock a bike at the supermarket... if not then I'm "entitled" to block the entrance...
Just because you CAN doesn't mean you MUST...
A lot of this seems weird or badly thought out to me... someone with an official disabled status can use the disabled parking... pop into the sports centre for a game of squash and come back out... someone with a broken leg going to watch their OH play some sport has to park at the back if any spaces are left even if the rest of the disabled and parents parking is free... and somehow squeeze out in a narrow space.
It all seems to me like it would be far easier if people could just be considerate.
I have seen a fair few of the "let's have a head on collision" brigade as well
The other day, no cyclists involved ....
Woman cuts across and goes the wrong way (wrong side of the road) round a blind bend she must have driven 100m on the wrong side causing oncoming cars to swerve ... then stops and picks up her kids parked on double yellow lines on a blind bend to shout at what were presumably her offspring who were [s]trespassing[/s] inside a closed school.
I'm pretty certain she felt "entitled" in about 10 different ways.
I stopped (hazards on) and watched the whole thing... (wasn't going to try and pass whilst cars were having to swerve onto the wrong side)
Theres a campaign?
I havent seen it so I doubt the Sun reading ****s in 10yrs old German skips have either.
But if we are having campaigns can we have one against new cyclists who think they know everything and gob off to other cyclists.
Actually dont bother I'll just smash their faces in.
Then your point makes no sense.
Oh! I mean right. 😆
Came across a blue van driving twunt yesterday morning in the New Forest...
Reasonable wide road, two of us riding abreast (sadly not a 34DD+ 😉 ), no traffic coming the other way on a long straight road (could see for ~200 metres or so).
Said twunt decides it's too logical to pass us very safely by going on the other side of the road, but coast behind us blasting his horn.
Twunt got a mouthful, after deciding in his world, two abreast was inconsiderate to motor vehicles. Told to re-read the Highway Code and jog on.
If it had been a narrow lane (less than ~1.5 car widths), we would have been happy to pull over. But this road was ~2.5 car widths width, roman road straight with no oncoming traffic for the next ~30+ seconds at the time!