[Closed] Sorry, children's helmet rant

I think it might be a whole 2 days since the last helmet thread (thanks Ton). Could we close this one as a duplicate?

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/would-you-interfering-bastard-content

This one is specifically about kids helmets and peer issues though.

Fwiw - I help out coaching kids mtb stuff. Helmets are mandatory. The group I help with is the more experienced group. The kids are now descending technical trails at speeds similar to adults and if they crash, it's going to be at high speed into a tree/rocks/ground. In this scenario, I don't want to see kids without helmets on.

Strangulation hadn't occurred to me. But then again, none of our kids are climbing trees with helmets on. They are pinning it down trails. Helmets are there for the purpose of impact protection in the event of a crash. If they are being used for any other reason, then you would have to question why responsible adults are allowing this.

see loads of kids wearing helmets that are either too big or not fitted correctly so they're flopping about. Can't be much good in an accident surely, at worst more dangerous?

Last one was about Ton this one is about kids helmets.

As rants go that's pretty coherent, well punctuated and avoids RANDOM capitals.
Peer pressure is stupid. Helmet policy is not the same as well structured risk assessments, etc. Hence poor fitting.

You make a good point about strangulation.

(Dec of Int: Pro choice)

see loads of kids wearing helmets that are either too big or not fitted correctly so they're flopping about. Can't be much good in an accident surely, at worst more dangerous?

That's no good either. Pet hate of mine - seeing a load of forehead because a badly fitting helmet has rotated backwards and the straps are too loose.

My daughter had a proper high speed off about a year ago aged 5. There was just enough peak sticking out of the front of her helmet to take the impact. I'm quite confident she would have smashed her face up if not for the lid. As it was she cried, we had lunch and carried on. It was a properly sized small kids' helmet - that was actually quite hard to find.

She often falls off at lower speeds and then does indeed protect her face with hands. But that time it was too fast.

So personally, I'm satisfied they help. I honestly wasn't expecting either of them to crash - we got them wearing helmets early on so that they get into a good safety habit, because it is my opinion that habitual safety practices in general (not just on bike) stop being a chore and just something you do.

I'm just offering my experience and not judging. You do what you want to do as a parent.

agree about a lot of helmets being too big and bulky

at that age we had the met genio I think, because it wasnt too big

making sure they fit tightly is probably the most important thing,

as for your general point, once they start going faster it becomes more important that they wear one imho Theres a large scar on my forehead that Im sure wouldnt be there if Id worn my helmet that time I was off to get a curry in a rush....

Do we have any stats regarding children strangled by bike helmet straps?. Serious question, not trolling at all, as it's something I had never even considered....

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
Do we have any stats regarding children strangled by bike helmet straps?. Serious question, not trolling at all, as it's something I had never even considered....

A quick google brought up [url= http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1227.html ]this[/url], but there are newer news reports too.

It's law here in Sweden. Tbh, I sort of agree with bits of the OP but can't be bothered getting worked up about it. My 4yr old has recently decided he likes launching himself around the small dirt-jumps near our place. Reckon the helmet is justified for that, which sort of brings me to the idea of 'reducing his risk' so as not to need a helmet. Not sure I'd want to do that.

I would imagine tree surgeons must be a high risk group for strangulation given they spend their days climbing trees and wearing helmets?

the largest impacts I've given my head are when I've been pootling about at lower speeds on tarmac. In those cases, the helmet worn has cracked and crushed at the impact spot ... I could actually feel the crush happen. I'm in no doubt that in those cases, the helmet saved me from a considerable amount of head damage.

Those speeds are similar to what my son is pootling around at at the moment ... so I'd much rather he wore a helmet and get that same protection.

Do I think there is a risk from strangulation ? slighty ... but the risk of impact damage is greater.

Do I think that a larger helmet could hit the ground first potentially putting a bit of twist on the head ... Yes. that's what the helmet is there to do .. hit the ground first. The injury risk of impact straight to the head is greater without the helmet, so I'd rather reduce that.

I 'm not saying that your identification of risk are wrong. There are merits to them. I just think that your prioritisation of them is wrong.

i.e. the risk of skull injury from a direct impact has to to be higher when not wearing a helmet than the risk of strangulation when wearing a helmet. I would rather mitigate the higher risk as the priority, and accept the lower risk as a possibility.

Our lad has a specialized flash helmet. its been a great buy and he love it.

You've made your decision and are happy with it, so that's fine.

Our son found a [url= https://nutcase-helmets-europe.myshopify.com/collections/youth ]Nutcase[/url] helmet the best fitting by far.

I quite like this:

I generally make my son wear a helmet if he's on his bike, it's not the high speed stuff that's the problem, it's the sudden lose your balance/get your foot stuck fall that seems to happen more often. I often like to get him to wear gloves (still looking for some 6 year old sized ones) as it stops his hands getting grazed from falls

Don't bother if the kids are scootering though

They were outgrowing their old helmets so I bought a couple of cheap ones from Decathlon that seem to fit quite well. I returned a pair of open finger mitts at the same time, the mitts were more than the helmet...!

For me I think helmets are important, however, I do have this underlying feeling that I never wore one when I was a kid and neither did anyone else. We were all fine and no one was ever was badly hurt. so why do we think they are all important now!

I know lots of things have changed since we were kids but I do wonder how many things are away over the top. My kid's primary school has just cancelled french lessons as they have no money. However, they found what must have been £10K+ to put a massive metal fence all around the school for security reason. It's in the middle of the bloody country and surrounded by hedges. Been fine for the last 20yrs so why now is it a problem. It's not like crime has increased or there are tons more paedophiles.

Mini rant over.

My kids don't wear helmets riding to school and back, along the canal to the park and back, messing about on French campsites or for any other 'general' pootling about. They wear helmets when out mountain biking with me.

I'm happy and comfortable with this approach. I know that at least one good friend and neighbour thinks I am a wrong. She makes her son wear a helmet at all times. When he's out biking with us I don't force him to take his helmet off. When my kids go out with them, they don't force them to put helmets on.
The earth continues to turn and fall inexorably into the sun.

benp1 - Member
I often like to get him to wear gloves (still looking for some 6 year old sized ones) as it stops his hands getting grazed from falls

Polaris at Kids Racing, they do them from a size that'll fit a 3yr old and up.

If your out riding with your kids and they aren't wearing a helmet that fits them well then as a parent I think you are letting your martyrdom put your kid at risk of an injury.

In my house if we are going out on a bike/bmx/scooters we grab the right helmet for the job.

For me I think helmets are important, however, I do have this underlying feeling that I never wore one when I was a kid and neither did anyone else

You could say the same about seatbelts, but that'd be daft...

Broadly I’m with the OP here. But kids differ, terrain differs and types of riding differ.

When our kids are on grass in the park they don’t get told to put helmets on. (And that’s where they mostly leaned on their balance bikes, too, so they didn’t have helmets then; also at that age a helmet massively increases the size of their head and I can’t imagine that it does necks any good if they fall.)

When my eldest rides to school or the shops with me he goes without because I know he’s not the risk-taking type. My younger daughter is, and she’s still learning to control her speed, so she gets told to wear one.

When they’re playing outside in the street with the other kids they have to wear one, there’s a fair risk of two of them coming together and hitting tarmac. We’ve had one bump in the head, fortunately nothing significant. Mainly it was (in the context of other little mishaps) a lesson to us that they make more mistakes when they’re tired in the evening, so we became a little more cautious with them at those times of day.

We don’t go blasting off-road (he’s not interested, she is but she’s not old enough yet) but they’d wear them then, too.

Generally we’ve managed to handle the message that it’s not “bicycles are only safe with a helmet, everything else is safe without”, which is what’s generally promoted. They understand the difference between calmly going to school and hooning around with their mates, and they see me similarly sometimes wear one and sometimes not. Sometimes they’ll ask for a helmet without me asking them to wear it, sometimes I’ll ask them to, but we don’t get any disputes about it. Seems to work.

But yes, it’s hugely frustrating that so many people think that an ill-fitted hat perched on the back of the head with a loose strap, which will at best do nothing in a crash, is somehow better than teaching kids to understand their own behaviour.

The one time I do worry about kids not having helmets is, as you mention, rear kiddy seats. It’s easy to lose balance when mounting/dismounting and if that happens the kid’s going down sideways with no means of breaking their fall or jumping clear.

If your out riding with your kids and they aren't wearing a helmet that fits them well then as a parent I think you are letting your martyrdom put your kid at risk of an injury.

Do you think the same about any other activity where they could suffer a head injury?

[quote=BruceWee ]The first time I was thinking about getting him one of those child seats so that I could take him to nursery. Twice I've seen parents dropping their bike with a kid on the back. I decided that actually a child seat was a stupid idea and got a trailer instead.

Have you got grief for him not wearing a helmet in the trailer? Ours had a note in it saying kids should be wearing a helmet in it, and I've had the discussion on here a few times (and once in real life).

As for the overall arguments, my kids wear helmets on their bikes, but I wouldn't dream of suggesting there was anything wrong with yours not (and actually I tend to smile when I see kids riding bikes without a helmet - because they're kids riding bikes). Definitely agree with Yak that they should be wearing helmets on techie off-road stuff.

[quote=qwerty ]I quite like this:

Personally I hate it in the same way I hate most helmet propaganda. The message is presumably that the "bully" would have been fine if he'd been wearing a helmet, despite taking a huge rotational force on his head and landing on the road?

The face-first crashes when you stick your arms out are - as you suggested - probably the ones where a helmet would be least useful. Side-on or rearward impacts to the head are almost impossible to negate in that way.

I guess it's a choice you need to make yourself. When cycling with a helmet, Is your child more likely to run off unattended and hang themselves from a tree than they are to have a fall? It depends on where they are cycling, why they are cycling, their level of competence, and myriad other things.

Have you got grief for him not wearing a helmet in the trailer? Ours had a note in it saying kids should be wearing a helmet in it, and I've had the discussion on here a few times (and once in real life).

General consensus around here seems to be it's not necessary. Which is kind of weird when you think about it. Presumably the same people who give you dirty looks if your kid isn't wearing a helmet on the bike don't think twice about a trailer. I would say there's still a risk of their heads hitting the ground if the trailer were to flip so it doesn't make much sense not to have the kids wearing helmets. But then you could say the same thing for cars.

It's really is strange and random how societies come to an unspoken consensus on what is and isn't acceptable in terms of health ans safety.

When I’m selling kids helmets in the shop I try to get the point over about fit. Too many people (girls especially) wear the lid loose and on the back of their heads, which is useless. Also, we’ve all seen kids riding round with the helmet dangling off the bars. I guess they’ll put it on if they’re about to crash, yeah?
I’m not massively pro helmet at all, but if properly fitted and used I doubt there’s more chance of harm than there is saving harm.
I alway point out that we don’t always hit our heads when we crash, be we always put our hands out, so to my mind gloves are just as important if not more so.
But most of us grew up without helmets and I’d never criticise anyone for not wearing one.

Ah, well my kids never wore helmets in the trailer and it seemed a stupid thing to do - big metal roll cage, the chance of them hitting their head even when flipping the trailer is very low (and I did test this out a couple of times 😉 ).

The randomness is more that a helmet is seen as unnecessary for other activities than cycling - TBH the helmets in trailers thing did highlight this well, as some people do still seem to think you need to use helmets in them, despite the risk likely being lower than many other activities.

The randomness is more that a helmet is seen as unnecessary for other activities than cycling - TBH the helmets in trailers thing did highlight this well, as some people do still seem to think you need to use helmets in them, despite the risk likely being lower than many other activities.

There's actually a lot of people who use trailers here (in Norway). A couple of years ago I noticed some people were using helmets in the trailer but now I almost never see anyone. As I said, it's like everyone just came to an unspoken consensus.

Kids are also allowed to walk to school by themselves from a much younger age. I've seen kids who can't be much older than 6 or 7 walking and biking to school by themselves. I don't think the actual risk is that much lower than in the UK but it's just the consensus that's been reached.

Do you think the same about any other activity where they could suffer a head injury?

Like rugby or cricket?

Do cricket forums have helmet threads or box threads? Do rugby forums have gumshield threads?

I often like to get him to wear gloves (still looking for some 6 year old sized ones) as it stops his hands getting grazed from falls

As do Giro and Endura. My LBS (they deserve a mention, Clive Mitchell in Truro) has a shockingly comprehensive array of decent kids gear so we went in and got new gloves and helmets that actually fit, none of this hanging off the back nonsense.

never wore one when I was a kid and neither did anyone else. We were all fine and no one was ever was badly hurt. so why do we think they are all important now!

This point is often made and i'd say the same thing, but would be interested to know if there were figures on cycling related brain ages from, say, the 70s onwards..but guess you'd have to unpick from that the increase in motor traffic etc

As for kids helmets - i make my daughter wear one, not for the bike mind, but more because she's likely to ricochet of the furniture just getting out the house!

My kids don't wear helmets riding to school and back, along the canal to the park and back, messing about on French campsites or for any other 'general' pootling about.

If they're under 12, probably better wear them on those campsites; it's the law in France for under 12s to wear them.

I’m not massively pro helmet at all, but if properly fitted and used I doubt there’s more chance of harm than there is saving harm.
I alway point out that we don’t always hit our heads when we crash, be we always put our hands out, so to my mind gloves are just as important if not more so.
But most of us grew up without helmets and I’d never criticise anyone for not wearing one.

Can I ask OP at what age you would suggest your child wears a helmet (if at all)?

I don't know. It's not really about age, I'm just watching how he's riding and most importantly how he's falling. Like I said, for now he's only falling on flat ground because that's the only place I'm letting him tear around. Every time I've seen him fall it's been hands out head back face flat into the ground. He gets his face a bit messed up but he doesn't get the head snap I'd expect if the relatively large helmet hit the ground at the same time as his chest.

I guess when we start riding places where he can ride into things or on uneven ground where he's not falling on a flat surface. Basically where I think a helmet would do more good than harm. Right now we just ride near the house but I want to start going off-road with him so a helmet will probably be a good idea then.

Oh, and when I can find a helmet that doesn't effectively double his head size.

Another thing I'm worried about is how you tell if their helmet is damaged? Given that a damaged helmet is worse than useless I'd always be worried that he'd bumped it without me noticing. Is that scratch from a crash or did he just drag it along the ground?

I was actually hoping the Kranium helmets were going to go on sale because at least with that you could tell if it was damaged. Unfortunately I think they gave up on that idea.

My two biggest concerns with kids helmets are the size and the fact that you can't tell if they've been damaged or not. A Kranium helmet or something similar could solve both those problems.

We just give them a once over before each ride. Recently one looked a bit scuffed. I pushed the scuffed area, and my finger went through. New helmet time!

(child admitted nothing about the state of the helmet!!)

Yeah, but I've had helmets that I know have had an impact but don't show any signs. I've replaced it anyway but I don't know how I would be able to tell with one of his helmets.

I'm seriously considering an ecohelmet as soon as they go on sale. Assuming they do kids sizes.

It's really is strange and random how societies come to an unspoken consensus on what is and isn't acceptable in terms of health ans safety.

Strange is debatable, but it's not random. Helmets have been pushed and marketed for decades. People are encouraged to wear them through imagery and messaging, from West Midlands Ambulance Service constantly focusing on them in cycling incidents but never any other circumstance, to Ford's latest Fiesta advert taking a somewhat revisionist approach to depicting cyclists over the past 40 years, to the "safety" gear handed out and enforced by Sky on its closed-road rides, and so on. Random it certainly isn't, it's influence that takes advantage of the natural human tendency to seek simple patterns: bicycle means helmet, helmet means safe.

if I wasn't forced to wear a helmet as a kid, I'd not have made it to adulthood. I guess people are concerned about the same of other kids. Would you comment if you saw someone driving with unbelted kids in their car?

Would you comment if you saw someone driving with un-helmeted kids in their car?

When i worked in a bike shop i was alarmed at how many parents bought helmets that didn't fit and ignored our advice.

I get what the OP means but after hitting my head a few times during silly falls I'd always wear one. If i had my own kids i would get them correctly fitting helmets. It's their life after all. One fall onto a hard tree root or rock is all it takes to be permanently brain damaged. It might be low risk, but wearing helmets have saved my life during road and off road accidents.

I don't make my kids wear a helmet when they're just pootling round the cul de sac, but they would wear them if going on a proper ride somewhere with other people/rough ground/a decent amount of riding time.

Similarly, if I was moving the car from in front of the house to on the drive in the cul de sac I wouldn't bother putting a seatbelt on.

You do an assessment of risk and make a call, I don't think there is any more risk to my kids on their bikes in the street as there is when they're on their feet in the street. I also don't put my helmet on when I ride my bike up and down the road bedding in pads/checking cleat position/seat height.

Would you comment if you saw someone driving with un-helmeted kids in their car?

Bit of a silly response. A 20mph crash can result in hitting the windscreen head first. The seatbelt helps prevent that.

Another thing I'm worried about is how you tell if their helmet is damaged?

I used to inspect north of 300 helmets a month this way, and record them, for use by other folks kids when cycling, canoeing or climbing.

I don't make my kids wear a helmet when they're just pootling round the cul de sac, but they would wear them if going on a proper ride somewhere with other people/rough ground/a decent amount of riding time.

When off road/ longer rides he is supervised more and tends to consecrate on what he is doing.

Most XC helmets dont fit small kids. Get him a small dirt jump "piss pot" lid or even better a kids Full face helmet. There's nothing more gansta than a 4 year old with a full face crash helmet on!

[quote=mjsmke ]

Would you comment if you saw someone driving with un-helmeted kids in their car?

Well no - the whole point is that equating seat belts with helmets is a silly thing to do (as you've identified), hence it's a response to a silly comment.

The more interesting question is would those who comment when seeing a kid cycling without a helmet also comment when seeing a kid in a car without a helmet?

One fall onto a hard tree root or rock is all it takes to be permanently brain damaged. It might be low risk, but…

The "it might be low risk, but…" qualifier only ever gets applied to very few activities, though, doesn't it?

I mean, as I recall the closest I've come to a serious head injury has been: hitting the window in a car crash, smacking my head on low ceilings and door frames, whacking my head firmly into the corner of a cupboard, being hit round the head by a yacht boom as we tacked, and falling down a flight of stone steps while drunk.

That's all uselessly anecdotal, of course, but actually it's not that unrepresentative of reality: two of my near-serious injury causes—car crashes and drunkenness—are the biggest contributors to traumatic brain injuries, the former alone representing around half of the total.

Yet no-one ever says "it might be low risk, but…" about either of those. They only say it about things that correlate with helmet marketing.

Bit of a silly response. A 20mph crash can result in hitting the windscreen head first. The seatbelt helps prevent that.

I was in a car crash where the impact was side-on and my head hit the side window. Seatbelt didn't help much there.

I [u]always[/u] wear a helmet. My son [u]always[/u] wears a helmet. He's on his second after denting it during a fall. I'm not sure how he could choke himself with it, perhaps I need a more vivid imagination.

Re: Chariot/Trailer - my wife and I had this discussion when I said I wouldn't be using a helmet for him when he was in it. She disagreed, so I ran a series of tests. Placed him in it, strapped in and inverted it. Even with a drop he didn't hit is head on the floor. I then (with his participation) did a rollover test using some speed and a curb (he was in a helmet for this) and his head didn't touch the road or the side. My wife was suitably happy with the results. There was additional foam around the edges of the Chariot structure which added about 10mm to the height and possibly lessened the impact, but I didn't want to damage the thing.

I was in a car crash where the impact was side-on and my head hit the side window. Seatbelt didn't help much there.

That's why many cars now have curtain airbags.

Good point Bez, my eldest has actually had several head injuries in his 9 years on the planet, one getting into bed, one (at least) swimming and several blue slips from school.

He's broken an arm on a scooter, and the worst he's done on his bike is whack himself in the balls.

Funny how you never see anyone at the swimming baths with a helmet on.

The more interesting question is would those who comment when seeing a kid cycling without a helmet also comment when seeing a kid in a car without a helmet?

No, because wearing a seatbelt will save your life in many situations, not all as suggested above with side impacts, but roads are dangerous. Wearing a helmet on a bike can also save your life in a lot of situations. Not all, but why take the risk?

[quote=Daffy ]I always wear a helmet.

Wow - pics of you wearing a helmet to eat breakfast please.

Eating breakfast is probably quite low risk, but I can understand your decision not to take any chances.

[quote=mjsmke ]No, because wearing a seatbelt will save your life in many situations, not all as suggested above with side impacts, but roads are dangerous. Wearing a helmet on a bike can also save your life in a lot of situations. Not all, but why take the risk?

Wearing a helmet in a car whilst wearing a seatbelt will save your life in a lot of situations (where just wearing a seatbelt won't). Not all, but why take the risk?

roads are dangerous. Wearing a helmet on a bike can also save your life in a lot of situations. Not all, but why take the risk?

Pedestrian head injuries are pretty common but I'm guessing you walk bare-headed. If a helmet can save your life in a lot of situations*, why take the risk?

* debatable**

** but let's not

I fell and hit my head many times as a child. Not one of those times was when falling off a bike.

From my anecdotal evidence I should have been wearing a helmet when running about, when playing on swings, when jumping down from walls etc,.

What assessment is leading the pro kids helmet wearers to only use a helmet when on a bike?

(Can't comment on the peer pressure aspect as I don't let it affect me)

Its the sanctimony i cant take. That somehow by not wearing, or forcing a child to wear, a helmet you are completely irresponsible and actively damaging your/their life.

The worst head injury i ever had was slipping on ice and smashing the back of my head into the tarmac, another couple on hills. Not once ever riding a bike, and i've fallen off a few times.

I was recently in minor injuries after a very minor off in which I damaged my thumb. First question from the nurse was ridiculously about whether or not i was wearing a helmet. What the **** does that have to do with the ailment i am presenting with?

As for my lad, i'd rather he learn that falling off isn't a great idea and learn to ride properly rather than presuming some magical protection from the polystyrene gods.

MY kids wear helmets, the older one is probably more hot on the whole thing than I am. But really they're just there for a bit of reassurance (yeah, so I'm a bad parent encouraging risk compensation).
Oh and when I have the kid on the bike I'm paranoid about dropping it so I am then keen on helmet use.
I have noticed though that when their mum puts them on they're often not adjusted right.
But I wouldn't judge anyone who didn't make the illogical choice I make, and I get super worried if we stop at a play park, making sure the kids take their helmets off there is far more important than having them wear them elsewhere.
And for others, the helmeted kid in car thing refers to the fact that far more head injuries could be saved with compulsory helmet use in cars than on bikes. Hence me referring to myself as illogical - although the youngest's seat does have impact protection beside his head and the oldest has some restraint.

To anyone for whom this is your first The Helmet Debate: Congratulations! You've now seen most of the major positions covered. Including but limited to passive-aggressive condemnation, science, pseudo science, anecdotal evidence, analogies of varying degrees of tenuousness and contradictory combinations of any or all of the above.
It's safe to move along now. What about those e-fatbikes eh?

aracer - Member

Wow - pics of you wearing a helmet to eat breakfast please.

Eating breakfast is probably quite low risk, but I can understand your decision not to take any chances.

🙂

I meant to end my post with, but everyone's different and you make your own choices, but got distracted.

I just wrote a long post but then realised it was a load of stream of consiousness drivel.

Boy wears a helmet, always has. He likes going fast.

All crashes at high speed the helmet has saved his bonce from impact with a hard surface. That's reason enough for me.

Instead of getting in a pickle of a mini rant, why not just buy your child a decent helmet that fits them properly? You can't eliminate risk, only reduce it. Is it worth having your kid not wear a helmet so that you can be proven right in your anecdotally based mistrust of them? If they do get a head injury while not wearing one, you'll feel like a prize fud.
If something can reduce the chances of serious injury to your kids brain should they fall off their bike, why wouldn't you want to reduce that risk? It is your call. I feel no need to make helmet wearing compulsory. I wear one. Others not but that is ultimately their right to choose.

No helmet, no ride. That was the mantra in my house. Of course I always made sure the helmet fit correctly and Met Crackerjack were always good for us. I also enforced the rules taking other friends' children out. And to set an example, I always wore mine as well. Teen1 survived to adulthood. He can choose to wear his helmet whilst riding around Uni as he sees fit (but not on the track - as no helmet, no ride is the rules).

I'm also happy to adjust badly fitting kids helmets, when they show too much forehead. Cheap helmets can be an awful fit. And bad fit will lead to an unwillingness to wear one A well fitting helmet is soon forgotten about. I really wouldn't bother if they were in a trailer though.

To paraphrase, "I'm a helmet wearer, but I'm not a tw_@_t about it".

I coach with a youth Cycling Club. We strictly follow the 'no helmet no ride' rule. As coaches, we have to; not a choice with British Cycling. A good rule in my view, for all the points made by others.

Personally I always wear one when riding, as do my kids. We have found that Spesh lids go down to good small sizes. Fits is vital, and a preride helmet check, on both fit and condition is a good routine, takes just a few seconds.

We climb mountains, paddle white water, ride mountain bikes, climb rocks occasionally, drive on motorways etc - all the 'risky' things.

What is the worst injury and where we have had as family? youngest_oab badly broke arm tripping over soft grass in the back field on his way in for tea...

We also had one slip into a fast running flooded river from the roadside by eldest_oab.

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I wear a helmet, both of my boys wear one. No helmet, no ride. I've had too many offs not to take the risk. I may also need to learn to ride properly. Also gloves as mentioned earlier, that's through experience of growing skin back on grazed hands too many times as a kid.

OP and others. It's your choice. But you can make that choice yourself without caving into peer pressure, or having to explain your choice. Just be sure that you are making the choice for the right reasons, just not to be awkward or belligerent about it.

Replacing a helmet is cheaper and easier than replacing a head.

Just me that thinks obvious trolling from OP is obvious?

Yeah, but I've had helmets that I know have had an impact but don't show any signs. I've replaced it anyway but I don't know how I would be able to tell with one of his helmets.

I don't always wear a helmet where inconvenience outweighs the perceived risk. My children are the same. I am sure some other parents judge me. Thats ok because I judge them for not having the brain power to perform a rational risk assessment or being so paranoid about tiny risks that they are couch potatoes.

I assumed kids still just take the helmet off when they ride around the corner - No! - what's changed?

Humans develop an excellent, instinctive risk awareness very early on in life. It usually takes between 15 and 20 years for society to destroy it and turn us all into mindless robotic vegetables.

*picks up helmet before heading off to the shops*

As a parent you obviously have a responsibility for providing a safe environment for your child.
You are doing that through risk assessment, whereas others via presumed injury mitigation.
When we were kids, helmets weren't used. But head injury studies were pretty much nil.. and available helmets were awful.
My first helmet was a Britax integra. It weighed the same as a small planet.
My kids wear helmets regardless, from day 1 on a run bike at a year old now hopefully through the rest of their cycling lives.
Did they need a helmet on a run bike.. my risk assesment said yes. My interpretation of duty of care to protect my kids said yes. Retrospectively after some of teh crashes wheyve had on run bikes and pedal bikes makes me believe it was the right descision. However, every helmet they wear fits properly, weigh next to nothing, can not rotate off the back of their head and has done a good job of protecting a 'small childs face' on mulitple occasions.
With that responsibility to keep your kid alive and in the best health for their entire and hopefully long life I choose to have min in helmets because:
If my kid crashed on their bikes at whatever age, whatever speed, however easy the ride I would NEVER want to say to myself "If only I'd made them wear a helmet"

I think the main weakness in the OP's reasoning is that he thinks is able to predict exactly how his child is going to crash. Whether or not helmet wearing generally is appropriate is another matter, but if you are basing not wearing a helmet just on the way you think a collision with a hard object might occur than I would suggest that you are being rather optimistic. Impacts happen in lots of unusual ways.

I think the main weakness in the OP's reasoning is that he thinks is able to predict exactly how his child is going to crash.

This is a good point. My daughters have both fallen off loads, and not hit their heads. They manage to save their faces every time, until one didn't.

Humans develop an excellent, instinctive risk awareness very early on in life.

You have to be frigging joking. Teenagers? Instinctive excellent risk awareness?!! HAHAHAHA! 😆

its quite hard to buy a decent weight, decent size, decent fitting kids helmet.

as will all protection - fit is everything.

[quote=imnotverygood ]Impacts happen in lots of unusual ways.

They do, doing all sorts of things. The most recent time I hit my head was last week at the indoor climbing wall (a hold on another route I wasn't paying attention to). I never wear a helmet at the indoor wall and I'm not starting now - though always to climb outside, where you'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands, but then several times this year I've seen big lumps of falling rock fly past people I've been climbing with. I've also hit my head riding my unicycle and roller skating this year, yet I still do both without a helmet (my risk assessment may be slightly dodgy there, they're probably both more dangerous than some of the cycling I do wear a helmet for).

decent weight, decent size, decent fitting kids helmet.

Thats ok because I judge them for not having the brain power to perform a rational risk assessment

So can I see your risk assessment poly?

Talking to the Mrs about this - on the local facebook page for our area there is a nurse who works in the neurology dept. She estimates that 90% of the head injuries she sees are people falling off (or being knocked off) bikes, many with life-altering consequences.

I strongly suspect all the anti-helmeters are retrospectively rationalising their dislike of helmet wearing.

Re kids' helmets - Spesh for ours until the eldest has a big enough bonce for an adult one. The Small Fry was great, and the pokey bit at the front was what saved her face from the Afan gravel. She's now on a Shuffle which looks pretty damn good to me in terms of fit and protection.

Thinking about it - I've washed the front out tons of times on loose gravel, and I've never hit my head. But I've always done it as an adult, and my instincts are quite fine tuned - I sense when something bad is starting to happen and I make arrangements.

She hit the face-planted because she was a kid, was inexperienced, and assumed she was going to be fine so it was a surprise when it went wrong. Also she is a lot closer to the floor so had less time to instinctively pull back I suppose.

[quote=molgrips ]She estimates that 90% of the head injuries she sees are people falling off (or being knocked off) bikes, many with life-altering consequences.

I find that incredibly hard to believe - either she's in a specialist unit which caters mainly for cyclists or there's some other statistical blip involved.