[Closed] sometimes, is violence the only answer................on a commute.

I'm 6ft, 16 stone

double post

I don't hit people because that would make me feel a bit of a ****er.

So it's alright to treat a little bloke with no respect?

LOL @ DeVs

Doesnt sound like "bullying" to me.

Ton, I would have done the same matey. If you're going to get up in someones face you have to be prepared for the consequences, simple as.

You obviously weren't wearing road shoes though!!

He is a huge bloke by all accounts and that should be warning enough to treat him with a bit of respect

If the guy is screaming 'I'm gonna kill you' 5mm from your face then a gentle Glasgow kiss is self defence.

muddydwarf - Member
So it's alright to treat a little bloke with no respect?

Little blokes are the ones I avoid.

I think someone is confusing 'respect' with 'fear'. 🙂

So it's ok to treat me with disrespect due to my size then...

Of course not.

It's the French thing that makes it ok 😉

Blimey the short arses are all getting a bit het up now aren't they. Ok, in this PC mad world all non gender specific persons of all variations of vertical challengeness and muscleboundness should be treated with exactly the same amount of respect.
Meanwhile, in the real world, if you gob off to a big bloke you are more likely to get a slap. I do realise that there are plenty of tough dwarfs out there that could stick me on my arse with some kind of jap slapping ninja move but the law of the jungle states that a good big un will always beat a good little un.

Nice one Ton, I like to think I'd have done the same.

Shame you didn't think to remove his keys as you rode past and drop them down the nearest drain 😀

More of a weeble than a beach ball TBH..I am awsome though!

Hitting people is wrong don't you guys know that?? Hitting some plumb who is all mouth and no trousers is even worse.

Walk away after all it's not like he had a gun or a knife just a big mouth which last time I checked isn't leathal..

[i] I do realise that there are plenty of tough dwarfs out there that could stick me on my arse with some kind of jap slapping ninja move [/i]

Actually laughing out loud. Thank you for this. 😀

DeVs rules.

you never know who you're dealing with. our fictional nutter ( the one that got nutted ), could just as easily come back up with a knife in his hand. you can play the tough guy if you like, and when you're bleeding your last into the gutter, at least you can console yourselves you were in the right. that'll pay your mortgage and feed your family too.

The more i think on this the more like entrapment it seems.

some plumb who is all mouth and no trousers is even worse

This is a tough judgement to be made in a split second. When someone is raging at you close-in, you just don't know what will happen. I thinks Ton's action was justified for his own safety. I mean if you are going to take someone out/down then do a proper job.

Now if they guy was mouthing-off at a distance, it's a different story.

How do you deal wit this then Del?

in a instant the guy is in your face, like 5mm away, screaming how he will kill you.

Hate to be picky too but when I had a mortgage, getting killed was a pretty good way to pay it off in one go!

DeVs - Member

How do you deal wit this then Del?

"in a instant the guy is in your face, like 5mm away, screaming how he will kill you."

Not get into that situation in the first place. If someone stops and gets out of the car I am out of there.

Step back?

adopt a defensive body posture?

Laugh in his face?

the first option is the one I take tho.

TJ, Ton did 'adopt a defensive body posture' by meeky bowing his head.....

8)

i'm having trouble believing someone would be that stupid to do this 5mm from ton's face... up would have to really have to believe you could handle yourself suitably in a fight against him!

i've been in similar circumstances earlier this year in the petrol station with two pedestrians threatening to kick the crap out of me, but i walked (or drove even) away without any violence occurring – but words did pass... 😉 i think at one point i was also threatened with a kicking from their father as well, i did actually laugh in his face as that point and told him to **** off home and cry on his mummy’s skirt…

there are some really stupid, angry and aggressive people out on the streets - hopefully this one will have learnt that their threatening and inappropriate behaviour has consequences and they will not treat other road users in the same manner

hope you have chilled out about it now ton... something like that would **** me up for days..

Had it happen to me a while back...whilst at work.

Bloke in a pub went to smash his pint glass on the table - his anger appeared directed at my female colleague. I put the guy on the floor before he knew what was happening....we then restrained the guy until the police arrrived.

In the meantime we got no end of abuse from the pub dwellers who had missed his threatening behaviour and saw us restraining one of their mates.

What Im trying to say is that...I didn't go out that night looking for trouble and acted in a manner that my 'instinct' dictated was right at that time.

Much the same way as 'ton' did I am sure. It is very difficult to comment on the rights or wrongs of a violent act without actually being there in person.

The guy involved was not seriously hurt ( thank god) and probably learnt a valuable lesson from it. I am sure that 'ton' has done the same.

I'm afraid I've been there, done that and although it's satisfying, violence is NEVER the answer. You're clever enough to know that the right thing to have done would have been to look him in the eyes, say nothing and walk away (and then come and tell the story on STW). It is always hard not to react though, especially when someone has quite literally threatened your life.

It was my wife who was on the receiving end in my case, she'd been out for a run, got barged, spat at and called various names, came home in tears, I got on my bike and tore after them in a rage - ended up decking 3 of them. I think I've told the story on here before. Yes it was very satisfying. No, it wasn't the right thing to do. The police were called. I ended up on a charge, nearly lost my job over it.

I'd still 'tweak' my route home just in case he (or the police) are waiting to 'follow it up'.

to all the doubters on here, it happened...fact
to all who said it was wrong or that it was bullying......you were not there and did not see the guys anger
and to everyone who thinks i was right...........so do i, and i will sleep well tonight.
and to those who have met me and ridden with me,dont worry it wont happen if you pinch my line on the next ride....... 😉

Hi Ton

Morally right or wrong doesn't matter...
...just please watch your back, house, friends and family for a while. If the guy is a real badass (or just ffing mad, must be to face up to you!) and finds out where you live there is no limit to what he and associates can do to ruin your life.

Sorry, am sure it will just blow over.
Paul

People get into a car and turn into something demonic at times thinking they own the road and like all here I too wince when road riding as a car whistles past close enough to clean the side of my my spd's.

I doubt he'll drive so close to a cyclist next time and whilst I don't condon violence it's a thumbs up from me as it sounds like he deserved it, enjoy tonight's kip!

In answer to the OP, yes.

You are a beach ball and I claim my five pounds.

I'm also 6ft/16stone and can officially confirm that I am cuddly with GSOH 😀

hora, on a differant note, are you coming on the ogden ride??

****ing hell, I'm 14st and thats enough. You must need some tough ass wheels.

Calderdale? Im in. Ive just been around Hebden/Calderdale this aft. Even sat on the carpark wall overlooking the canal was stunning 😀

calderdale 4th october....... 8)

[i](Makes mental note not to offend ton in anyway or threaten him until at least the 5th)[/i]

When someone appears to be about to punch your lights in and acts hyper aggressive, in the heat of the moment it is wrong but understandable to react like you did. I think we are almost programmed to react like that? Fight or flight etc.

But.....

You hit someone, they could just fall and bang their head and die. Seriously, is it worth someone's life and you being banged up?

sounds like a normal day in london

Personally my legs go all weak and wibbly at the first sign of confrontation and I'd have pegged it the second he stopped his car but I do honestly believe there's nothing wrong with some old fashioned fisticuffs if its a fair fight and I think you did the right thing. If I'd have witnessed someone gobbing off like that I'd have been willing you to hit him, cause as much as diplomacy is the correct thing its just lost on some people. Yeah you could walk away but then he'll think his behaviour is acceptable; both his driving and aggresion. Maybe now he'll reflect a bit and think twice next time.

Agree totally snowslave and Im one of the most relaxed people in a heated situation. A few years ago I was being pushed repeatdly into a group of blokes (I was v.drunk) whilst my mates called one of them a poof (I think he was) and the brother in the other group said 'do that one more time and thats it'- it all kicked off in the bar and punches etc were thrown. The other group were numerically superior and were thrown out (I hadnt thrown one punch)- I quickly sobered up though when I realised they were all waiting across the road for us us to leave so I went over alone and said 'look, we go this way- you go the other?'. Thankfully they realised I was battered/innocent before and let us all go (but the brother did bend my ear off about the poof-bit).

However, if someone either swings/hits you or its immminent under certain circumstances then its self defence.... If you follow it up (IMO) then its uncalled for/manslaughter/etc.

Why so many suggestions to change his route "for a while"?

The bloke just had his face smashed in by a cyclist "built like a bear"!! HArdly likely to forget after a fortnight is he?! Not saying the guy didn't deserve it but I would be expecting a nudge from his car at some point. Good luck and keep safe.

Ps. Talking of taking on people. In Hudds a bloke once kicked off with me and a mate outside a club- I promptly lamped him (a bloody good one aimed at his jaw as well) and he fell over a wall into a basement (probably about 6ft) and landed on his head vertically (Plaza club- the lip/drop over the wall if you know it). He got up straight away, laughed and came at me again. Its not worth fighting, some people are just inbuilt hard as nails.

Pick the wrong bloke (one of those nutters) and he'll be up for manslaughter not you.

Just chill. 🙂

Maybe now he'll reflect a bit and think twice next time.

A few people have agreed with this on the thread. I'm not so sure. Granted, he may think twice about picking on someone ton's size 😆 But he's also learned that shouting in someones face instead of throwing the first punch is stupid, therefore actually becoming more violent.

maybe you could celebrate by buying a new bike
or three

brakes - Member
maybe you could celebrate by buying a new bike
or three

the wheels are in motion............ 😉

I reckon the tags on this post are as good as I've seen. I can't imagine someone doing a search on "I'm gonna get you Butler" on the STW forums, but if they did ... it's there.

Struggling to see how Blakey's catchphrase from On The Buses fits this scenario, but it's funny as **** nevertheless.

and to those who have met me and ridden with me,dont worry it wont happen if you pinch my line on the next ride.......

Don't let him in front of you or you will never see any sort of line . . .

I'm sure that you were just bending down to speak to the little man when he jumped up and hit his head 🙄

You have the right to defend yourself and it is legal to do so, as long as you do not use unnecessary force. The bloke's behaviour was threatening and also threatened to kill you, so you defended yourself. Not got a problem with it.

Had a similar incident when I lived in the UK. But the bloke wasn't too keen to get out of the car to 'discuss things', 😆

And I'm not even a chef!

[i]He got up straight away, laughed and came at me again. Its not worth fighting, some people are just inbuilt hard as nails. [/i]

Yeah, in my fighting days I met a few blokes like this. Certainly one chap just kept bouncing back until I got annoyed and punched him in the throat (which was horrible). I'll run every time now though, too many people are prepared to resort to stabbing to finish the fight nowadays.

mmm, it's hard not to react sometimes, but I've not seen violence ever sort anything, whereas creative non-violence has sorted stuff from small to huge. Surprise is the best thing.
Something non-violent that they don't expect often does the job.

I agree with the other persons post on head butting to be a cowardly act. I know in that situation you are not adearing to the queensberry rules! I would have been more impressed with your hardman status if you had given him a right hook instaed of the lowest form of shot in the book. Bet he had a BMW.

Wrong to say headbutt is cowardly. It takes a certain amount of courage to hit someone in any way. Unethical perhaps but cowardly is the wrong term to use.

Tony I'm sure you did what you thought was right and think you showed great restraint in not going further giving him what he really deserved.

You stopped him and then stopped yourself from becoming as low as he is.

Not read though all 4 (!!) pages, but a head butt is one of the most effective ways of stopping an aggressor in a fight/flight situation (even better with a helmet) planting your hardest part of your body into their 2nd (ish!) most sensitive.
When he was in your face you did the right thing, if you'd fled then he could have smacked you!
Must be human survival instinct to question/agonise any conflict whether aggressor, victim, right or wrong 😕 [url= http://www.mtbe.co.uk/idiot-t3017.html?highlight=idiot ]
My event[/url]

Well, for having slapped someone's head yesterday eve (completly different situation) I still think you did the right thing. Some people are just animal incapable to live in a society.

I try as much as I can to avoid conflict (I told the guy 2 time to stop) but sometime it is just no feasible. In this case no matter what people say some shouting is going to kill you 5mm from your face is a threat. I don't know where the law stand in terms of self defense if you have to get hit first or not, but if it ever happens to me I would not try to find out. Better safe than sorry.

However I might disagree above about not reporting it to the police. What if the guy follow you home or anything else?

Let us know how it goes.

I really understand someone losing it in this particular scenario, but everyone who is saying it was right to bop him is just plain wrong, without a question of doubt.

Ton, you seem a really nice bloke matey, but you're a big guy and could easily have killed him, given him a blood clot on the brain or something.

Not something you'd want to have to live with for the rest of your life. The really tough thing to do would have been to walk away, you know it...

Then ram a potato up his exhaust pipe or something.

hare krishna etc etc

At least ton did the right thing. Hit the driver not his car. Shows he has balls.

No, it shows balls to walk away. Hitting him shows a lack of restraint to the silly plonker who instigated it all, at which point who is the better man? It's asking something very special to do the right thing here, I know I know, and like I say, when someone shouts and is hyper aggressive in your face I reckon we are programmed to respond like Ton did.

The truth is there is no knowing what response you get to violence and where it will end, either in terms of damage you do to the other person, or how they respond with equal or bigger force, at which point where do you go next?

When you look down on someone lying motionless in a big pool of their own blood as a consequence of this sort of thing, rather than them just having a bloody nose, the senselessness of it all becomes quickly and horrifically apparent.

that's exactly it. it's really not that hard to kill someone. even if you don't, and you consider yourself in the right to act first in self defence, you could easily end up on a charge of abh, gbh or whatever, and have to defend yourself in court.
i've genuinely no idea how i would react in the same situation ( who amongst us does, really ), but i really wouldn't want to end up on a charge that's for sure, let alone responsible for someone's death - whether they 'deserved it' or not, i would still find it incredibly difficult to live with if someone died as a result of my actions.

So it is ok for the guy to get out of the car, shout I am going to kill you, and then hit you and possibly kill you?

What if the guy it ton on his back while he was walking out?

STW is pretty hilarious for 'male ego' anyway, but this thread is the best of the best!

Its interesting that the bloke got 5mm from tons face but still didn't touch him. Since he was so close, had he meant anything serious, he would have gone straight at it instead of stopping where he did. Granted what he did was intimidating, but his behaviour suggests that it was bravado.

I'm as happy to have a pop as the next man, but I'm not that great offensively. Defensively, I'm happy to break the bones of any limb that's kindly offered, but I've never been one to drop the first strike.

Ton could have just walked away, but his choice seems not-unreasonable.

[i]'Never rub another man's Rhubarb'[/i]

It takes balls to walk away = myth propagated by mothers and people who have never been in that situation. It's far harder to initiate violence knowing it might be the last thing you ever do.
The way I see it is, if ton didn't stand up to the guy it would have to be someone else more than likely less able to defend themselves. Left unchallenged bullies like the driver (yes that what he is, not ton as described earlier) will just carry on and be encouraged by their "victories". People who do not stand up to bullies, and I don't mean that you have to be violent, are worse than the bullies themselves. Those that believe that, once they have angered a nutter, they can get on their bike and run away without further consequence or incident are burying their heads in the sand. I spent a few of my formative years "a bit lost" and have been an aggressor on a few occasions. Running away would have made me angrier. The moment of go/nogo decision was just before the w@nker signal. If you start a confrontation and then think "oh no this is a bit scary" and run away then you are as bad as the crap driver in the first place. This has been the 2 penneth according to devs.

snowslave again I do agree with you! but if hes in your face shouting at you- you definitely feel imminent threat/fear and its escalating. As said before- Im not a fighter (more an internet Pugilist) but if it got to that point I wouldnt want to wait for a headbutt from the other bloke. True the other bloke might then wipe the floor with you but hes crossed a line firmly.

I'd never scream at someone and put my face into theirs. I'd call them a name and keep my distance, if they started getting closer then I'd start getting worried. If they came into my personal space I'd honestly be sh*tting myself. Thats the point where you either want to curl up (thats what the bloke is hoping for- you to curl up for him) or wrong-foot him.

TBH - he probably wont roadrage someone quite so readily again. Hes probably done it a few times, got away with it then picked on someone who isnt a walkover to be bullied.

Ive only met Ton once- he seems to be a salt of the earth type/old-school? (Is this right?). If so he sees situations like this as firmly black and white?

Good points well made on the bigger picture DeVs.

i'm of the opinion that more people should be drowned at birth, unfortunately this doesn't happen, and so the world is full of gits.

it sounds like our friend Ton has had to deal with one of these people, he was nearly killed, then shouted out, then threatened, he stood up for himself, he hit the git once and walked away (rode away). i wish i had his courage and restraint.

Ton is a big bloke - and? so what? - you wouldn't pick a fight with a Gurka and they're tiny!

or he just made it all up to see if he could get the 'longest thread of 09' award...?

'longest thread of 09' award...?

I'd still be careful for the next few weeks and keep an eye out. I'm 6'7" and still got assaulted on the Tube in London a few years back by some idiot who was being overly aggressive and intimidating to the passengers in the carriage (i was the one who stood up to him when others wouldn't).

He came off worse in the encounter (despite hitting me with a bottle) and got put down for 5 months (after the rather large chunk of his afro which got ripped off in the fight was used to collect DNA evidence against him!!). But it was only then that i found out he was on remand for armed carjacking so he could have pulled out something far more dangerous than a bottle. On hindsight i think i should have walked away and i was very nervous that he or his 'associates' would find out where i lived.

In Ton's situation though i'm fairly sure i would have reacted much as he did. Whether or not it was bravado on the drivers part i'd rather put him on the ground before giving him the opportunity to pull a knife or whatever these idiots carry these days. And like has been said, maybe the driver has finally learnt that you can't just act aggressively to any stranger just because you feel like it.

Sorry Ton but I think you did the wrong thing.

In the heat of the moment I can understand that its easy to lose composure.
Lets face it he wasn't actually going to kill you in the street. He was just waving his cock about.

I hate walking away from this type of situation but an eye for an eye makes everybody blind and all that.

I know its a stretch but I think Martin Luther Kings approach championing non aggressive protest in response to violence & hatred is the right thing to do.

The amount of anger from cyclists vented at car drivers on this site is incredible. You got's to chill.

you wouldn't pick a fight with a Gurka and they're tiny!

Fantastic and probably spot on. A great analogy.

Ton, I'm with you to a degree, but to be frank, it was pretty obvious from the way you described the incident ('blood pissing from his face', etc) that you enjoyed what had happened. I'm not saying you should come over as an apologist or anything, but it's all a bit tossy isnt it?

but it's all a bit tossy isnt it?

Kinda sums up this whole thread. Stinks of bullshit and egos in 'ere.

[img] [/img]

Good question. How would have Rudeboy have dealt with the same situation???

Good question. How would have Rudeboy have dealt with the same situation???

soma_rich - Member

Good question. How would have Rudeboy have dealt with the same situation???

WGAF.

Dunno who she is but this is what you get when you put "ego bullshit" into google images

[img] [/img]

lol @ DeVs

The moment of go/nogo decision was just before the w@nker signal. If you start a confrontation and then think "oh no this is a bit scary" and run away then you are as bad as the crap driver in the first place

Lets face it he wasn't actually going to kill you in the street

The best outcome would depend on what this bloke's true intentions were, and we can't know that. If he really wasn't going to hit Ton (I suspect that's true) but was mad enough to want to harm him, riding off along the road would surely be a very dangerous thing to do, UNLESS you'd made sure that he wasn't going to come after you in his car.

Ideal: stop the bloke without hurting him & take away his car keys. If you've time (and witnesses) call the police - I'd imagine that would be the best deterrent to him driving like this again, which was the initial problem. If you haven't time for that, make sure he doesn't get them back in time to hurt you along the road. Failing those, butting an aggressive bloke isn't such a bad choice.

Whereas putting Devs into google

[img] [/img]

Just re-read some of the ridiculous posts on this thread. 'He must have had a death wish, squaring up to you mate' - are you inviting a lot of friends and relatives, or is it just going to be a quiet wedding?
Another one I liked was 'I'm a chef and a bit handy when pushed' - being a chef makes you a hard case then? bake me a cake, cake boy...