[Closed] Some 'Freeride' god had dug holes in my trails!

That will be the Forestry Commission. Thats what happens here in the FoD.

What the FC dig holes in trails and put sticks down to obstruct your way? Strange.

[quote=mattsccm]That will be the Forestry Commission. Thats what happens here in the FoD.

[quote=Mugboo]created mantraps to add big berms

The forestry commission make berms?

Your trails? Do you own the land?

Sorry. I am told its progress!

No TJ, just a turn of phrase.

No ownership. But I am extremely careful to keep things subtle and natural. Both these paths are also very steep in places and barely used by the local dogwalkers.

Now someone has decided to turn them into their own version of Whistlers A line! Wouldn't mind so much but if you want material for a feature then why dig it out of the trail itself..

Was probably a 12 year old with a sideways haircut and one of those floppy beanies, or 'knut hats', as I like to call them

Similar thing happened round my way recently. Ruined the flow and left hardly any room to squeeze past their dubious looking addition.

You'll not squeeze round this. It's just missing punji sticks.

if you want material for a feature then why dig it out of the trail itself..

Probably because when their mums dropped them off, they couldn't fit a barrow in the car as well as their expensive DH bikes.

TandemJeremy - Member

Your trails? Do you own the land?

Intellectual property innit.

So please explain to me the moral difference between what you did in creating these trails and what the others did in altering them?

TJ, please shut up with your whining. Cheeky trials have an etiquette which isn’t written about in Wikipedia or one of your 'Dummies guide to Law' books.

he's just having moan TJ dont take it so seriously

TJ - much as i'm usually the first to advocate not building on land you don't have permission for, there is a big difference between pruning back the odd tree or removing debris lying on the surface and digging ruddy great pits in the ground. The latter is substantially altering the environment and is likely to upset the land owner and inconvience other users.

Moral difference (rather than legal) is whether you have a negative impact on other users or the land owner.

Stop being so petulant Teej, 'tis the season to be merry!

Mugboo basically answered the question here:

Wouldn't mind so much but if you want material for a feature then why dig it out of the trail itself..

He wouldn't mind modifications, but

dug sodding great holes in the line and created mantraps

Sorry TJ no offence intended but I would rather poke myself in the eye then get into a long and laborious discussion about the in's & out's of the morals of local trails with your good yourself 🙂

Mugboo, it happens, fix em up proper or leave them be. I had a very well constructed trail checked by FC and they left it alone, a good while later ripped apart by FC as there had been other building on it deemed to be a poorer standard, so FC chopped the lot.

Intellectual property innit.

Love it

🙂

Yeah, sod off TJ you killjoy 😉

what scruff said.

going back to the OP, its usually kids, see plenty of the same round this way they just dont see the bigger picture and as a result can make some pretty dangerous mistakes. If they get really out of hand then it also attracts the wrong kind of attention and the original subtle trails are rendered useless.

meanwhile new super sneaky under the radar trails are being formed.

So please explain to me the moral difference between what you did in creating these trails and what the others did in altering them?

Your need to argue with people for no apparent reason astounds me sometimes.

neal - mugboo has been building trails on land he does not own and without the landowners permission - but moans when someone else does the same because he doesn't like the result.

It hypocrisy and humbug

What I read, was that he cleared a few branches and debris from an already existing path that was rarely used.

And someone else came along and dug dirty big holes in it.

(but my "looking for an argument" filter is switched off I suppose so maybe you read something different?)

The gulf between the reality of their foolishness and the delusional self-proclaimed wisdom of certain frequent posters on here absolutely beggars belief!

Mugaboo was there first wasn't he? Its like grafitti-ing over someone elses grafitti, just plain rude! Youf of today aint got no respect, innit!

We understood what you meant first time TJ. In fact we knew what you meant before you wrote it as you always bang on and on about the same thing over and over over....

😆 At this thread 😆

Hilarious arguments indeed.

To the OP, yup it must be frustrating, but I wouldn't be surprised stuff like this happens, only way to avoid it would be to get some proper permission and decent surfacing down which couldn't be turned into uber pr0 doublez in an afternoon.

only way to avoid it would be to get some proper permission and decent surfacing down which couldn't be turned into uber pr0 doublez in an afternoon.

Spoilsport. +1 for Guerilla Trailbuilding

It's dog eat dog out there man.
😀

just fill the hole in with their berm if you're that bothered about it. repeat until they get bored and go somewhere else. it does grate a bit when you mark a trail out and try to keep it low key, then some clot comes along and starts messing with it, but if it isn't your land then you can't get too uptight about it. either take direct action to 'un-modify' it, just ride it as it is, or move on.

When I find time I'll go and fill in the holes so no one gets hurt 🙂

Can't imagine a world where you only ride the rare, boring, overused bridleways that just end up as deep, deep bogfests or 3m wide sandstone paths.

Surely exploring is in our nature 😉

And the landowner in the case allows riding.

Would this be the little wood above a village beginning with 'H'?

J - nad luck fella, just put it back to a decent condition. Half the time it's kids / folks who don't know any better who've tried to build something, found it doesn't work and then never come back.

And TJ please pull your head out of your arse 😛

We then left them be to return to nature so they would hopefully go unnoticed by folks.

Does this just mean you left them alone for 6 months then?

I'd say (according to my own interpretation of "Trail Etiquette") anyone finding an [u]apparently[/u] abandoned trail has fair scope to start modifying it as the person(s) who orriginally made it have not been back... obviously in your case you were leaving it to age like a good cheese, but in fairness to the much bemoaned yoofs, how were they supposed to know this?

For my own part me and a few locals near me have started re-digging some of our local woods lately, we keep finding "Yet another" old line that's been left for a good long while. normally a nice line that benefits from a bit of creative sculpture or even the addition of a nice big jump and/or Berm...

I'm sure someone who might have dug there previously may take umbridge at our changes, but we all ride there regularly and very little changes have been made in the last 12-18 months, so far as we're concerned we're taking the initiative to keep the trails rideable and "evolving"...

Ultimately if you really want "ownership" of some trails you need to start a club and get propoer buy in from FC/Landowner and co...

All well and good.

Isn't J (Mugboo) talking about folks building bad stuff that makes the trail unrideable, rather than someone just changing (arguably improving it)?

Further down some idiot has [b]dug sodding great holes in the line and created mantraps[/b] to add big berms

Some superbly funny TJ bashing above. 😆

Maybe they haven't finished building yet and what looks like holes and mantraps are a work in progress? Pruning a few bushes/twigs doesn't take long to do but moving and shaping earth can take weeks/months depending on how many hands are helping (speaking from experience here).

Best bet would be to try and find who's doing the work and build something together.

fill the holes in but put a series of hazards in place including swinging log traps like the ewoks in return of the jedi, then wait for gnarcoreradsicjnr to come bombing along on his rig That'll learn the little scrotes

Alternatively, just put tj on the trail and he can explain how he's on their side and tell them all about the great helmet debate....they'll sell their bikes and take up knitting rather than ever have to go through that again, therefore saving your trails for ever

That'll be the place Pennine. Any ideas?

And part of my point was that these trails have gone from 'under the radar' to glaringly obvious and have now attracted the local misery gutsclub!

TBH it does read a bit like the OP has pruned some hedges, buggered off for 6 months and is now all afronted that some younguns whose "Vision" diverges from his own have started to try and build some trails along the runs he previously cleared and left...

I do understand the sentiment, I've gotten a bit over sensitive about other people changing trails I liked as they were, but actually those doing it are likely to be motivated by a love of riding bikes and not actively trying to ruin "your" trails...

Cheeky trails grow, it's the nature of them, I've got similar concerns over "Dog walkist visibility" for my own local woods but those of us who do the digging have all agreed it's better to have challenging and interesting trails for all to ride, which might not be there next week than a Safe, low key "yawn fest"... Basically we'll face the challenges if/when we get them, who really want to take the default appologist position?

The fact is you'll not stop other MTBers from wanting to build if the area has posibilities, perhaps getting them organised and dealing on some level with the FC could help...

Just to put a few things straight, and I'm by no means trying, in any way shape or form, to justify this to TJ, because I don't care what he thinks tbh, it's just for info.
a)The land manager/owner permits cycling on the Moor/wood (I think the phrase they use in the management plan is, tolerates) and I'm quite certain he has no problem with sensible pruning and clearing.
b) This particular line started off as a very faint sheep/deer path or virtually nothing in the undergrowth on a very steep, unused, wooded part of the moor. We visited it a few times and discussed clearing it. Then mugboo started clearing the undergrowth and pruning to create a better line, then we both did some moving around of rocks, but it was all very low key and you wouldn't otherwise know it was cleared for bikes.

What we found last night was a mess, dangerous and very blatant. On top of that, a bit saddening for mugboo (I don't claim to have done more than just assist, that's what I'll be telling the judge anyway).

Chris Akrigg found one of the two lines (name dropper, me?!)

[IMG] [/IMG]

.....and have now attracted the local misery gutsclub!

Cookeaa

It's ridden regularly enough.

Euro

If you intended to keep the line as it is but add a berm, would you dig a large hole in a down slope for material then dig another hole to fill your first one?

I'm all for live and let live and I spend plenty of time improving boggy sections for anybody who uses the local woods.

And as for TJ, it must be very hard to live in such a black & White world. Without a little grey it's almost impossible for us all to rub along.

And if anybody knows who's building I am more than happy to have a chat. You never know, it could be the Mr Akrigg? Nah, the new lines not that daft 🙂

Does this come off the moor and head down into the little valley with the river?

I looked at something down there in the autumn and it looked pretty abandoned, with logs and branches across it. If its the same one they probably thought it was fair game and it will be a work in progress. No one is going to be stupid enough to leave big holes on the entry to a berm. There seems to be loads of kids on big bikes around Harden/St Ives nowadays, if they are encouraged they might build us a bike park 🙂

Some 'Freeride' god had dug holes in my trails!

Do you live in East Lothian?

Theres 3 lines Ian

The first by the wall is well used by everybody. The second is just after it and someone started trying to spoil it with logs this year 🙁 (this is the one in Chris's photo. When you see the landing, you will wonder how?)

The third is closer to the gate that leads back on to the BW. This is the one with the large hole. Nip up and have a look. As I say, bit odd to dig a hole to then dig another to fill it back in?

I'll not be losing sleep over it. Fingers crossed your right and it's a work in progress...

Could it be that mad old bugger called Geoff 'get off my moor!'

Edit: just scrubbed my comment, noticed it's been named now. Slapped wrist IanV.
Santa might send his elves in the New Year. 😉

I thought this was going to be an Elbry thread........

Hole fixed 🙂

We went up there in the monsoon last night (couldn't face riding). Turns out, it was, as suspected, defo not a work in progress, just a yoof digging a hole in a trail to create a berm!
We've kept the lip/drop that the yoof had added but filled the hole with a couple of large rocks so you can now roll it. Still confused by the berm as its not even on a corner or on the line.

At this rate it should be dry enough to ride by summer 2013!!