[Closed] Solaris or FlareMax - long term musings...

I’ve no experience of any of your bikes but if you don’t want two fs bikes why not sell the Spark and keep your existing hardtail for racing xc on and get the flaremax for everything else?

This seems to make sense rather than have an fs for racing xc on and a more relaxed hardtail for longer rides where you find after 4 hours you struggle on a ht often.

I like having an fs and a ht and picking the most fun one for each ride. Big days out it’s fs, and rocky / uplift stuff where you get a pummelling it’s also fs.

If it’s hugely muddy / very pedally / mucking about on pump tracks etc then I take the ht.

But I don’t think I want 2 FS to maintain

I never get this. You're talking about a handful of bearings you can get for about £20, a couple of bushes for £4 and a shock service once a year for £100.

Buy the bike you want to ride, rather than the bike you want to maintain.

Where you gonna be riding it?

The Solaris is more versatile into the XC sphere while the FlareMAX is more versatile into enduro bike territory.

You say weight doesn't come into it, but one will be notably quicker on the flat than the other. Is that a factor?

The Solaris is very comfy for a hardtail, but it's still a hardtail. A set of plus wheels gives it genuine two-bikes-in-one value, but 29 is quicker for sure.

Both are so good that they may be genuine "bikes for life".

I never get this. You’re talking about a handful of bearings you can get for about £20, a couple of bushes for £4 and a shock service once a year for £100.

Buy the bike you want to ride, rather than the bike you want to maintain.

Exactly.

Over 3 years i swapped 4 frame bearings on my Whytes, that was more down to the previous owner rather than the bike. Whyte replace the bearings FoC, so it's £0 outlay and 2 hours of my time in 3 years.

Some FSs seem to eat bearings, but even they are once a year generally. Is it really 'less' in a real world context in terms of maint ? Mmmmm not so convinced.

As a race bike at a decent level i 'get' the HT thing... but as a nice comfy bike for playing about and cruising around, i don't understand why you'd not just have a nice FS.

I've happily ridden hardtails for far longer than 4 hours without any obvious comfort problem.

South Downs Way - the main problem is running out of gas, nothing to do with comfort. No amount of suspension will help with that.

I can’t race XC Marathons on an HT, it beats me up too much for my liking so the Spark stays for that.

For the Cotic - to generalise - speed isn’t an issue.  Durability, being a Cotic, being of a more relaxed geometry and being a bike to enjoy rather than race are the factors   Oh, and it’ll be 29.

It’ll be ridden primarily down south, Epping, Swinley, Peaslake but I’d also take it for long days out, Chilterns, Peaks, Wales, South Downs - I have a long term goal to spend some alone time exploring the Lakes.  In the short term “race” years, it’ll be used more in the winter.

I've had both. Kept the SolarisMax. Flare Max was a fun bike but too much cross over with what i had. I find the HT is just great fun all year round, not just in winter. I've ridden in all sorts of places where I'd normally take a FS.

I like having the choice of a different type of bike, and find the chubby hardtail great for quick blasts and all day rides. Didn't like it much on 29s, although I would like to try it again with some wider tyres.

For the Cotic – to generalise – speed isn’t an issue. Durability, being a Cotic, being of a more relaxed geometry and being a bike to enjoy rather than race are the factors Oh, and it’ll be 29.

It’ll be ridden primarily down south, Epping, Swinley, Peaslake but I’d also take it for long days out, Chilterns, Peaks, Wales, South Downs – I have a long term goal to spend some alone time exploring the Lakes. In the short term “race” years, it’ll be used more in the winter.

Why then would you need a HT ? Take the comfort of an FS.

Get on a demo day, there's one at Peaslake next month. Ride both bikes and I bet it'll be obvious which one is right for you.

https://www.cotic.co.uk/demo/

I got rid of my SolarisMax LS for a few different reasons.

The positives- the bike is unbelievably quick for a HT when pointing down. I think the length and geometry gave real stability when you pick up speed. When you got up to speed it would carry you through rutted trails nicely. At the bike park I could ride trails that a HT has no right to ride (especially with me piloting it)- rock gardens, big doubles, drop downs. Sure it was hard work, but it got me through. Again, I think it was that long shot geometry.

The negatives- climbing is best described as winching. It never climbed well. I think it's down the slack SA. I could really feel being over the back wheel. I noticed it when changing initially but then got used to it, but when I tried other bikes it really brought back to me how slow it climbed. It was hard work on the big days over previous/new bikes. Playfulness is a big factor for me as I like manualing, popping & kicking the back out. The Solaris really didn’t like it. It was so long and stable that it felt more like a serious point and shoot bike rather than having fun on your way down. The only reason I was left with a grin on this bike was the sheer speed it carried and obstacles it got you through, not because I had fun popping of this and carving that. The build quality of the frame wasn't fantastic. I had burs in the seat tube that made a mess of my brand new dropper. Some of the tubes didn't sit flush (top tube to seat tube) so aesthetically it wasn't perfect. The paint was also a little brittle in dark metal and it picked up more marks. Looked lovely at a distance though.

Not helpful, but I swapped to a Whyte S150CRS and it really highlighted the shortcomings outlined above. It climbs/descends better and more importantly, it's playful! It’s all my own opinion though so those attributes above could be well suited to you and ultimately you need to go for a test ride.

SodaMAX

(sorry, not sorry)

I really like my SolarisMax, chubby tyres add a bit comfort if that's what you're after (which I like) but with a 29 setup it's really quick. If I was just riding smoother flow trails i'd set it up as a 29er but I really enjoy the chubby tyres for the rocks here in The Lakes.

SodaMAX

Is the seat angle the same as the Solaris though? I personally couldn't spend that kind of money on something with what I consider a flaw. Can live with pushing the saddle forward on the steel frame version though.

Bloody hell - slight correction it's a Solaris Max I'm talking about...

Thanks for the shout on the demo day chakaping, I've sent an email...

Neither 😉

Get a nice comfy 100-120mm 29er FS.

Bloody hell – slight correction it’s a Solaris Max I’m talking about…

I think that's what he meant.
The SolarisMAx LS has a 73.4/7° SA in 140/130mm, which is fairly slack given the all round nature of the bike. The SodaMax is the same geo but in Ti.

Good point weeksy. The Swarf Contour looks lovely at 115mm. I would demo that.

Funnily enough I was just reflecting on the fact that it will be a year on Thursday since I placed the order for my FlareMax. That's about the point where history shows that I tend to get bored of bikes and start thinking about swapping to something else, but I still love the FlareMax. That's surprising really as on paper it isn't the bike for me. It's an aggressive trail bike, but I'm anything but an aggressive trail rider. A long 29er with a 65.6 degree head angle would have been considered extreme a couple of years ago and only really suitable for Enduro or even downhill. Yet I just bimble around exploring natural trails. Sometimes there is a bit of tech, but it's never extreme and often I'll spend all day on forest or landrover tracks. Even decent length road sections are not unusual, yet I've never at any point wished I was on a different bike. It feels sprightly a fun everywhere and personally I find it one of the most enjoyable bikes I've ever owned for climbing off road.

Getting back to the original point, I'm a fairly analytical fellow and keep lots of stats. Most of them are meaningless really as there is either too much variability and not enough measurements or you can't control for your own bias. But something like average speed over ~100 hours of riding gives a fairly reliable result. I've found that the average speed for the FlareMax over the year is coming out around 5% faster than any of my previous full-suss bikes (26" Trance, 26" Five and 29" Smuggler, all of which were within a couple of percent of each other on average). Perhaps of most relevance here is that my average speed on the FlareMax is the same (to one decimal place) as my average on the Solaris, which is very surprising. I'd expect the Solaris to have been clearly faster but it looks as though I'm not really giving up anything in terms of speed with the full suss, but am gaining a heap of comfort (and a bunch of fun) over a long day ride. That is comparing a longshot FlareMax to a Mk1 Solaris, but if anything I'd expect the older Solaris to be faster.

I've always likes the idea of a hardtail, but I've reached that age where my back complains for days if I ride one for more than a few hours. I'll happily ride the FlareMax all day long though.

In contrast to some, I really like the slightly slacker seat angle and longer stays compared with some bikes I've tested. It's all personal preference of course, but I find short stays and steep seat angles fun for short blasts, but much prefer the longer rear and slacker seat angle for all day comfort.

I take your point about the simplicity of a hardtail and that's always been a big part of the appeal for me too. But I had to change the droplink bearings in the FlareMax and it really was a simple job. I've not done the ones in the main pivot yet, but they don't look to be any harder.

weeksy
Get a nice comfy 100-120mm 29er FS.

That'd be a FlareMAX then 🙂

For what it's worth I love mine, it puts a massive grin on my face every time I ride it, I finished a descent on Saturday and I was giggling to myself. The walkers that were passing must have thought I was mad!

Regarding the seat angle and climbing, I don't find it an issue at all. In fact I've been setting PB's on climbs, both techy ones and not, I genuinely thought it'd be slower due to the weight.

And they look lovely in my opinion.

View this post on Instagram

That’d be a FlareMAX then

TBH it could be any of dozens of bikes... What confuses me is

but I want a bike that I can sit up on, relax, pootle and take for bigger days out in comfort

and

I can’t race XC Marathons on an HT, it beats me up too much for my liking

Why would a HT be nicer just because you're riding slower ? If it beats you up over a 4 hour Marathon XC then surely if you're doing a touring ride over 4-7 hours it's still going to beat you up ? Surely ?

To be fair, I had a Trek Superfly XC race bike and that was incredibly uncomfortable. I swapped over to a 120mm trail HT and it was far more comfortable. Bigger rubber, more travel & comfier riding position. Still, an FS bike is much comfier than any HT.

@weeksy - riding at your athletic limit and/or at a racing geo is very different to the opposite .

Thanks Roverpig I've been following your thread with much interest .   Maybe it's a 130mm FlareMax I'm leaning toward...

Anyway, I'm about to muse on my carbon HT for an hour....

riding at your athletic limit and/or at a racing geo is very different to the opposite .

But a HT for hours and hours is still a HT for hours and hours... Sure, if speed is an issue then I get the HT29er, tehy're quick.... but I honestly think it we took a poll,

"What's more comfortable over 5-6 hours, a FS or a HT" then assuming all things equal like them both fitting correctly etc, then the FS is going to be WAY in the majority.

Anyway, I’m about to muse on my carbon HT for an hour….

Well that that was of no help at all.   On the plus side I’m booked in for the Cotic demo for both bikes, so will see how the feel.

Part of me says that there’s no point selling the carbon HT as the return won’t be great but I’ll need the space and to soften the Cotic financial blow 🙂

650b, not 29er, but I've gone from a Soul to a Flare and there's no looking back for me, a bit heavier yes, but more grip uphill, less time out of the saddle climbing, less aches and pains after long rides, and not silly long travel to lose efficiency or fun factor. I'm actually still running 120mm reba forks off my Soul. Short(ish) travel full sus is the bike for a bit of everything 'mountain biking' to my mind. Even non techy, fast, bumpy descents off the hills are a pleasure on my Flare, used to dread them on a hardtail.

I've had 29ers, a Scandal and a Solaris, but only have one MTB these days - which needs to do everything, and I prefer smaller wheels for the tight, twisty, rooty natural trails that make up a chunk of my riding. I'm sure the Flare Max will be brilliant for what you want, but there are probably cheaper, lighter and just as suitable alternatives from bigger name brands...... Get the one you like the colour of!

If the carbon hardtail won't be raced, get rid of it and get the trail full suss.
And if you are going down this route - how about demoing a few trail full sussers? I was in the giant shop today and the 29er trance looked ideal for most non-race riding.

I’m actually still running 120mm reba forks off my Soul.

How does that feel on the Flare considering you've still got 130mm of travel out back? Considering turning my Flare frame into a shorter travel all-dayer bike for now.

Ooh I'm on the Peaslake demo too, want to hold my hand 🙂

Depends on the quality accuracy and gender appropriateness of your user name 😉

how about demoing a few trail full sussers?

I want a cotic.  I’ve done Treks, Yeti’s, Scott’s and Giants in my life time for something more Shed than Factory if that makes sense - the MTBr’s mid life crisis Caterem 7 kit car...

Well...……..
I'd be more worried about you racing and me not. I can find silly trails at Peaslake though

Flare is good on the rebas, BB is maybe a touch low, and I'll probably go for some 130mm travel, 34mm stanchion forks at some point (I'm best part of 100kg though), but it's far from necessary for general riding. It's not very rutted or rocky where I ride mind you.

I run the shock at reasonably high pressure and fast rebound to keep it lively.

Well………..
I’d be more worried about you racing and me not. I can find silly trails at Peaslake though

Im not going there to race . I've already asked Cotic how long the demos are - on the basis they may be short I might bring my own bike so would be up for a cheeky ride if you like?

more shed than factory... I understand. Have fun.

A ride would be good, I'll pm you.

Well, the good news is that Cotics demo loop is 90 minutes long.   With both bikes back to back that means I’m out in Peaslake for 3hrs, what a great value demo.

On the minus side Boobs that means I’m all afternoon on Cotics which while good, doesn’t leave any time for extras.  However I look forward to seeing you there.

I concur with everything Cokie said about the Solaris above. On downhills it is a speed monster, very confidence inspiring. But it's just sooo long that playfulness in any other aspect is eliminated. I mean it's comfortable, it covers miles well, is a bit awkward uphill, but it just takes a whole lot of energy to 'play' on the bike in any situation where it's not an all out downhill speed fest. Shorter wheelbase and steeper HA and SA for me next time.

I can't claim these are long term impressions when I've barely ridden over the winter, but I like my FlareMax a lot.

The comments about the Solaris largely apply to the FlareMax as well - but for me that's a positive as its how I want to ride. It's a bike I can pedal all day comfortably and it gives me a lot of confidence downhill. The length does make it feel a little cumbersome at low speeds, but the riding position is very central and I find it easy to control going faster.

I think these are fair points. All day comfort and downhill confidence are a big part of the appeal to me too and maybe it wouldn't be so ideal for a shredder.

I would dispute the idea that it's not playful though. In practice I find it more playful than previous bikes. Those shorter/steeper bikes were easier to do car-park tricks on, but out on the trail I'd often find myself hanging on for grim death, stiffening up and just praying to get down alive. Riding the same trails on the Flaremax feels so much more secure that I find myself staying more loose and looking for features to play with.

If you don't lack confidence then I can see that a shorter/steeper bike might allow you to have more fun but if, like me, your riding is often limited by a lack of bottle a more stable bike can end up being a lot more fun.

What Roverpig said.

For a long, slack bike on big hoops the FlareMax is incredibly playful. Up to speed it is very nimble and poppy - you place it there and it goes there. Previously I had an Orange Four which was supposed to be all of the above. The Flaremax is way more stable and confidence inspiring, just plain faster everywhere whilst still being agile. And the steel frame gives it a wonderful ride feel. I'm in love with riding the damn thing and have been out more frequently (the weather helps!) as a result. Def get a demo. Don't worry about the 'slack seat tube' either (it was a concern of mine too and then promptly forgot about it once I started riding it), there are plenty of designs out there with fashionably super steep seat tubes and they still have to ram the saddle all the way forward. This bike was crafted by the designer to generate a particular feel and experience for the rider. It does it in spades and it will be the last thing on your mind with streaming eyes and disbelief at the capability, speed and just plain fun of this bike. Demo one asap.

Everything Roverpig posted in that most recent post is why I’m looking at this bike.  I want to be able to enjoy a long ride in comfort and have the bike cosset my lack of technical ability.

I want a low stress environment within which to enjoy some time out on my bike.

Everything Roverpig posted in that most recent post is why I’m looking at this bike. I want to be able to enjoy a long ride in comfort and have the bike cosset my lack of technical ability.

I want a low stress environment within which to enjoy some time out on my bike.

Not sure still that a HT is the answer to that, even things like tractor trails, etc are nicer on a FS than a HT, the constant battering will still be the same if you ask me irrespective of an XC based Ht or a trailsy based HT.

The good thing is that as long as you go in with the right mindset, then just about any FS will do it. That was my ride yesterday, just relaxed and enjoying the T-130. No pressure, no timescales, just riding where and when i fancied. 🙂 But could be just about any FS out there.

A fair point Weeksy and I’ve perhaps submitted to the FlareMax at this point.  Also, I’m schedule for a “zone 2” easy ride on Sunday and although it goes against the program of measured output I’m going to do it on my Spark off road to test that very theory.

Hey, if you want a Cotic, i ain't going to argue, i love them 🙂 I think they're awesome.

I honestly can't think of any reason the Scott can't do it all though. Even if you factor in a set of bearings once a year at £80 inc labour, then it's a lot less than a £3000 new bike 😉

I honestly can’t think of any reason the Scott can’t do it all though. Even if you factor in a set of bearings once a year at £80 inc labour, then it’s a lot less than a £3000 new bike 😉

Factor in either a new set of wheels or changing the tyres from race-paper to normal every time you want a relaxed/adventure ride.
I don't know Kryton's temperament, but if I had a single wunderbike that I actually raced competitively on*, I'd be averse to taking it out in the mud, rain etc, for fear of wrecking it prior to an important race.

For your intended use, convention says the hardtail, modern practicality says full suss (especially as it is a proper British one that the designers understand may get wet). If you are coming from xc race bikes, both will feel slow and heavy on the demo.

*I do race, just not competitively.

I don’t know Kryton’s temperament, but if I had a single wunderbike that I actually raced competitively on*, I’d be averse to taking it out in the mud, rain etc, for fear of wrecking it prior to an important race.

Yeah i get that... I like having a spare bike, but it's very very rare that my proper bike isn't completely ready to go. Although i am very organised and have things like a BB in spares, seat/seatposts, bearings, headsets, mech, chain etc... All ready to fit if needed.