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Saw a Ritchey Outback V2 in a rather lovely blue colour and thought that it'd make for a rather lovely gravel bike, but I can't get away from the length of it's rear.
https://thewoodscyclery.co.uk/products/ritchey-outback-2023-50th-anniversary-frameset
So.... What is the perfect all-rounder gravel bike, based on the below:
- Drop bars.
- 650B/700 wheels.
- Various mounts
- Disc brakes
- Tyre clearance for upto 50mm on a 700 rim
- Fun but capable handling
- Not built like a tank nor as fragile as an egg
- Does not cost £2k+ for a frame and fork.
- And must come in a nice colour.
I always thought the rear end length of the Outback was one of its plus points. Balanced positioning, comfortable and better shifting for 1x systems.
The Fairlight Secan does indeed look to fit all of the above, but is the Plum worth £100 more? It even comes in Reynol 853.
https://fairlightcycles.com/product/secan-frameset-deposit/
I always thought the rear end length of the Outback was one of its plus points. Balanced positioning, comfortable and better shifting for 1x systems.
Reviews say that it is indeed great at climbing and is super smooth, but not the most exciting of bikes. Not a bad thing if that's what you are after.
So long...
Cotic Cascade, love mine. Can do everything.
Looked at the Cotic Cascade and the Escpade but dismissed them as the former is a bit too much like a MTB and the latter a road bike. If they had one somewhere in the middle made of 853 then that could be a contender for the best all-rounder IMO.
Cascade
Escapade
I’d have been all over a Fairlight gravel bike it wasn’t for the head angle being 72.5 degrees in the largest sizes. In think the assume you’ll want a long stem
I think the value options are Brother cycles Mehteh for steel and Sonder Camino for aluminium
I think Genesis missed a trick by not hitting 50mm clearance on the new CDF
They're not quite as glam but once I'm eventually ready to go disc, I'd seriously be looking at the Kinesis GX Race, currently discounted on Sigmasport.
Clearance for 700x50mm, based on a CX race frameset so presumably quite fun handling (I haven't scrutinised the geo yet).
Aluminium so not as heavy as steel or delicate as carbon (well, not delicate per se but I know I'm a lot less paranoid about dropping my metal bikes than my carbon one).
Plus you could spend the savings on important stuff like really nice wheels and posh tyres ?
I've an On One Free Ranger, ticks all your boxes and can be bought complete with a decent groupset for your budget.
But, I'm now looking at a Cotic Cascade as I want something that's more capable for bikepacking on rougher tracks (tried the Free Ranger and it works but happier on my HT - want drop bars though).
If I get a Cascade then I'll replace the 50c tyres on the Free Ranger with 40-45c tyres, something more slick for 'fast' gravel (plus I use it with slicks on the roads).
Don't though think that the Free Ranger isn't capable, it is (did 50 miles & +5000ft at the weekend, 50/50 on/off road).
Mason Bokeh, I cycle to work every day on it, but it's pretty decent off road. Not sure what the clearance is but I have 43mm with loads of space for mudguards. Lots of mounting points. Does not feel like a tank.
I’d agree with the Fairlight advice. Lovely. Or take a look at the Fearless Vulture V2. I’ve had a Fearless Warlock and been super impressed. Especially with advice/service from Tim. I’m running wtb 700x50 wtb ventures in mine, but that’s tight, or 650x2.2 easily. The Vulture Mk2 has loads more clearance too. It’s only recently landed.
beagleFree
I’d agree with the Fairlight advice. Lovely. Or take a look at the Fearless Vulture V2. I’ve had a Fearless Warlock and been super impressed. Especially with advice/service from Tim. I’m running wtb 700×50 wtb ventures in mine, but that’s tight, or 650×2.2 easily. The Vulture V2 has loads more clearance too. It’s only recently landed.
I'll chip in with another vote for the Secan, as I have one and love it, but I did also own a Fearless Vulture Mk1 which was also a lovely thing. Tim at Fearless is a gent and I can only assume the new Vulture is every bit as good as the old.
Came here to suggest the Cascade but I see it's alredy been considered. As mentioned it's at the MTB end of the spectrum perhaps but that's not necessarily a bad thing - feels balanced to me with the long back end, but then I'm riding an XL with long front centre.
Not sexy but Cannondale topstone carbon. On the faster side of gravel but capable. Light comfy and fast. Did I say fast?
+1 for the Mason Bokeh. Fast and pretty stiff on road. Nice geometry off road. Lots of mounting points. The orange one is particularly nice looking.
That Kinesis is very pretty, especially in the purple, and is cheap! But only takes 45mm tyres on a 700 rim.
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech/bikeradar-builds-simons-kinesis-gx-race
Mason Bokeh is also very pretty, especially in blue. But tyre clearance is also 45mm on a 700 rim. And looks quite expensive when compared to the Kinesis.
https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/bokeh-bikes
Cannondale Topstone looks quite good value for a complete bike in the sales. It's not the prettiest of bikes (carbon bikes generally do look a bit box IME) and I'm not sold on that weird rear bushing suspension design. the tyre clearance is 40mm on a 700 rim, which is what I have on my current cx bike, and is ok but not 50mm.
https://www.cannondale.com/en/bikes/road/gravel/topstone-carbon/topstone-carbon-4
The Fearless Vulture is stunning and quite a good weight for a frameset, and a decent price at £865. Not 100% sold on a straight steel fork, as I've found a straight steel fork to be a bit harsh and 'twangy' IME, so I'd be looking to change that to a carbon one. Maybe one to be considered.
https://www.fearlessbikes.com/vulture-mk2/
That Singlebe website is scary (good), and I would not recommend anyone who is a fan of 90's Kleins to head there after consuming a few beverages and in easy reach of a credit card. The fact there is no price list, and the paint finishes look so good, I think it is a case of "if you have to ask for the price, then you can't afford it"
https://www.singlebe.com/en/produkt/singlebe-pinnacle-custome-steel-frame/
A custom frameset is very tempting but very likely too expensive for me, nice though,
I think the Alpkit/Sonder Camino ticks all the boxes, and is cheap too at £600, with a wireless Apex1 AXS XPLR at £1800 seems amazing value.
https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-camino-al-v3-frame-and-fork
https://alpkit.com/products/camino-al-apex1-axs-xplr
This could be the winner of best all-rounder especially at the cost, but:
- What is it like to ride on-road?
- What is it like to ride off-road?
- Does it hold together better than the Alpkit clothing and camping equipment I've experienced?
Cannondale Topstone looks quite good value for a complete bike in the sales. It’s not the prettiest of bikes (carbon bikes generally do look a bit box IME) and I’m not sold on that weird rear bushing suspension design.
If we are talking boxy budget carbon bikes, you can't discount the Boardman ADV 9.0 - paid £1500 for mine and been really happy with it. Gets flexy seat stays instead of weird bushings - it's light though (990g frame, 420g forks) and warrants upgrades such as lighter wheelsets. It zips along as it is. 42mm tyre clearance
Run my Advanced 0 in a commute, road and off road set up and love it.
Loads of bosses to bolt things to if that is your thing. Up to 50mm tyre clearance.
Not as pretty as some but a great all rounder.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/revolt-advanced-pro-frameset
@didnthurt, frame was @1700 Euro, for a 853/Columbus tubed frame. T47 BB and internal cable routing, long top tube so I could run a shorter stem for drops or slightly longer for flat bars. Gravel light as its only got 40c tyre clearance, but suits me fine.
Got mine raw and was cerakoted by a friend for a nice bottle of malt.
@inbred853 don't tease us, where's the pics of this beauty?
Brother Mehteh comes in a nice blue/black fade called Moonstone, I love mine (I run it with 27.5 x 2.25" but plenty of room for 700 x 50 too).
Doesn't have a bazillion frame mounts, but a sensible number in the triangle for a couple of bottles/mounts and also some down the fork legs. It rides in a pretty relaxed way, not super light but it never feels like a lump to move around and ride. I did run it briefly with 700x40c and it really sped it up on the smoother surfaces, but for the terrain I ride I prefer the 2.25" Mezcals.
Tempted by the Giant myself for Athe same duties!!
I've had a few over the years..
Orange RX9. Lovely bike but basic spec. A blast to ride on the road.
Cannondale Slate with Lefty fork. Ok, but a harsh ride.
Specialized Diverge Elite. Very nice bike, but more road orientated than gravel.
Sonder Camino Ti. Lovely frame, well spec'd and not too expensive.
What is it like to ride on-road?
What is it like to ride off-road?
Does it hold together better than the Alpkit clothing and camping equipment I’ve experienced?
The latest Camino has a 69˚ head angle, same as the current Stigmata, and longish reach/wheelbase. It's designed to run a 70mm or shorter stem and feels horrible/wrong with a longer one ime.
It's ace off road, properly assured, stable, sure-footed on stuff that my old On One cross bike was properly jittery on. Depending on what tyres you run, it's not far off a lightweight, rigid mountain bike. On the road it's very stable, not like a traditional road bike geometry at all, which is great on pock-marked / pot-holed British back roads and lanes, great on fast descents where it's just planted.
Speed, in honesty, is going to depend a bit on what tyres you run. With 50mm Panaracers, mine was great off road, but a bit sluggish on tarmac, with 40mm G-One ARs, it was fast as on the road, but a slithery mess on anything remotely taxing off road. With the current 45mm WTB race-type tyres it's pretty good on both.
I think the frame quality is pretty good, though the paint has a tendency to chip. If you're fixated on super shiny, glossy paint that stays perfect, look elsewhere. I built mine from a frame, but I'm not really convinced by the super wide, flared bars Sonder fits by default, also I found the mildly flared Spitfire bar just 'wrong', couldn't get it it set up so it felt right on the tops and on the drops. Partner found the same.
I don't believe in 'best', it always depends, but my take is that the Camino rides way better than its price and is absolutely fantastic if you want something that's on the mountain bike end of the gravel bike spectrum. It's good enough to occasionally lead into places where it's slightly out of its depth and I really need to fit a dropper. In an ideal world, maybe one of those Rockshox Rudy gravel forks, but then it's maybe a little too close to a mountain bike.
I'd maybe swap it for a Stigmata, but then again, there's something pleasingly wagy-tailed, underdog about the Sonder, so maybe not. Lighter wheels than the ones I have would be cool.
No idea if that helps. Alpkit does Sonder demo bikes at its shops, so it's easy enough to try one or they can send one out to you I think, I don't think it's a pretty bike fwiw, but it's grown on me.
Also, if you like steel, Secan is nice according to a few people I know who've ridden one, but seems expensive for a Taiwanese-welded steel frame. The On One Rujo, the missus has one, is nice and a fair bit cheaper, no idea if they still do it though.
Fustle causeway
Chat with the designer
https://open.spotify.com/episode/27x892toSzDJ5W6mW15RJE?si=3eVDdU4AQza0rWNRMuVRlw
Pic upload fail ?
Was just going to say I recently built a Fustle Causeway and I'm happy with it. I'm not much of a drop-bar rider but it feels good to me.
Ridden it over questionable terrain, then it feels really fast on smoother surfaces!
If you do s Glorious Gravel event you can rent a Sonder Camino. They do demos from their shops too
I know you’ve asked for 50mm 700c but…
just about finished building a Kinesis GX race to replace an old Pro6. Planned use as Jack of all trades, new forest gravel, commuting, credit card touring, general use if I’m not on my road bike… poss the odd cx race too.
Geo appears almost identical as the Pro6, looks good in deep purple and ‘cheap’ enough not to be too precious about scuffing it. Should run 40mm tyres with full guards. Loved the Pro6 so hoping this is as good
I did look at the Secan but was told the frame I wanted was not available/discontinued when I had convinced myself re cost….
will post pics/review if I can later
edit - kinesis customer support seem pretty good too
Want to clarify the carbon topstone (v2) has a recommended tyre clearance of 45mm which im running with loads of space.
topstone is good for covering ground quick.
fairlight secan does appeal also
ti orro i saw in merlin last week was very nice.
25 days (hopefully) to wait for my secan. Can't wait.
edit – kinesis customer support seem pretty good too
Sadly not the impression I got, almost got the impression they were just box shifters i.e. the frameset I bought arrived as if direct from Taiwan, painty threads and numerous bolts missing that they then had the cheek to charge me for, even the bolts required to hold the cantilever brake adapters on weren't supplied and when I phoned to ask what bolts were required (for a fairly safety critical component you would think) the guy on the phone just gave a sort of disinterested guess as to what might fit.
I do like the products though in general.
If only there was an in depth review of the Fustle Causeway by a fellow Singletracker.......
https://ukgravelco.com/2020/08/03/fustle-causeway-gr1-review/
I was initially drawn by the green to black fade, which is a bit different but in a good way.
Then I saw the blue to turquoise fade, very nice! And this would fit in with my other green/turquoise bikes that I seem to have procured. Lush!
My Ridley is a clone of the Free Ranger. Light wheels and 1x gears and it’s a flyer, 42mm tyres and plenty of room for more. Airwolf/Carbonda 696 is the generic name for the frameset if you wanted one from ebay or Aliexpress.
If you fancy a Salsa there are some big discounts here: https://www.lyonequipment.com/all-road
edit – kinesis customer support seem pretty good too
13thFloormonk - Sadly not the impression I got, almost got the impression they were just box shifters i.e. the frameset I bought arrived as if direct from Taiwan, painty threads and numerous bolts missing that they then had the cheek to charge me for, even the bolts required to hold the cantilever brake adapters on weren’t supplied and when I phoned to ask what bolts were required (for a fairly safety critical component you would think) the guy on the phone just gave a sort of disinterested guess as to what might fit.
I do like the products though in general.
Not sure how recent your experience was if looking for canti brake adaptors....
Support was good last week - yes they had put the wrong frame port adaptor in the box in Taiwan, but the guys I emailed in the UK sent the correct one out as soon as they worked out what I meant... (frame designed for full outer routing for rear derailleur, port had built in cable stop).
When I bought the Pro6 I mentioned there was an error on the description (not affecting the bike in use for me) and they updated it.
If buying a frame only, surely most brands are just forwarding a box from Taiwan (even Fairlight)?
If built up in the UK by the brand or LBS, they do all the tidying/facing, but that's why I can buy a pretty decent frame for ~£700, and then spec what I want on it and build it for less... (I take ages but I prefer building as much as I can myself rather than buy a bike then later bin the bits i didn't want)
For all around gravel bikes I don't think you can overlook the current prices of the Titus / planet x titanium offerings. The spec you get on a titanium frame for the prices (especially with deals on) is phenomenal in my opinion.
Not sure how recent your experience was if looking for canti brake adaptors
5 years ago-ish.
I take your points and I think I also sort of accepted the lack of finishing and bolts etc. as 'priced in' but it was just Kinesis's general disinterest in helping me source the bits I needed (and the prices they charged for bits they did have).
Aaaaanyway, it hasn't put me off buying from them again potentially.
Had an Outback V2 for just over 3 years now. It is absolutely the best bike I’ve ever ridden and my go to bike for riding.
2 friends have bought them as a result of my recommendation and have also said the same.
That fearless vulture looks mint