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Making a list and checking it twice... Not neccesarily about wheel travel or whatever, just about intent- so the Prime is a little shorter travel frinstance. Just flat ruling out anything steeper than 68 degrees though, it's 2014. Missing any?
Banshee Prime
Canyon Spectral
Commencal Meta AM 29
Cube Stereo 140
Intense Spider Comp (but not the normal spider)
Kona Satori (discounting the process, too short travel)
Nicolai Ion 15
Norco Shinobi
Orange Five 29
Santa Cruz Tallboy LT
Specialized Enduro
Transition Covert
Yeti SB95
I'm considering buying used so the more contenders the better 😉 Think the Transition is currently top of the heap though
In true Stw fashion I'll suggest what I've got- Turner Sultan. Taken it down a few BPW blacks and the rider was definitely the limiting factor
BMC TF01 Trailfox
For the price of a frame these days you could a) get a custom build b) buy a welder and build one your self.
Though the countless hours currently spent playing with suspension kinematics on CAD has made me appreciate a well designed frame.
Pyga 110?
Salsa Horsethief?
Just ordered myself a cheap Ghost AMR 2955 from CRC, only 100mm at the back (doesn't need more IMO), 110mm up front and 69 degree head angle, but low BB means a 120 or even a 130mm fork should be a goer bringing the head angle to about 68 degrees.
Was looking at the Banshee at Core bike show, looks good, but not sure a 29er needs that much travel myself...
Sultan +1
Niner WFO
Niner RIP
If you're open to hardtails I'd look little further than German 2souls!
I know you have the Enduro , but I'd put the Spech Stumpy FSR Evo on the list. Possibly Transition Bandit as well?
Cheapey cheerful, crc's Vitus Escarpe 29er.. Oops only small un's left
Hardtail could only be the awesome 2 souls quarterhorse.
So good to ride I'm tempted to take to Sierra Nevada instead of my Tallboy Ltc.
Sultan +2 🙂
Some good ones in there, cheers!
If I do this, it's to replace a 160/150mm 26 inch full suss with coil lyriks so definitely not going to a short travel 29er, or anything too xc- needs good tyre clearance etc. Rules out quite a few. Even with the 68-degree head angle crowd I'm trying to avoid anything that won't take an angle headset if need be, as I likes me the slack.
That Escarpe's crazy value, wish it fitted! I'd be tempted to just grab one.
Er, what else. Horsethief, BMC and WFO are great calls, cheers! Stumpy is eliminated for gobsmacking ugliness, Pyga for its ridiculous seatmast. The RIP9, Sultan and Bandit don't push my buttons, all seem a bit xc.
Krampus
Why 29 and not 27.5?
Cos if I'm spending a grand and a half on changing frame, wheels, tyres and forks, I want a difference I can actually see 😉 Other option o'course is just to buy another 26 inch frame and write 650b on the tyres in tippex, nobody'll know.
The Sultan is a trail bike, it pedals well but really isn't XC
Oh and the mbr review reckons you shouldn't discount the process 29er due to travel, they're supposed to be the shiz!
Cos if I'm spending a grand and a half on changing frame, wheels, tyres and forks, I want a difference I can actually see
KRAMPUS
The single ring thing puts me off the process too... (not that I'm against single ring, but options are good... And it makes for a rather expensive bike)
I rode a Sultan and I will not comment on that experience here because there are fans present who're taking time out to try and help... but no ta!
bigdean - Member
For the price of a frame these days you could a) get a custom build b) buy a welder and build one your self.
Though the countless hours currently spent playing with suspension kinematics on CAD has made me appreciate a well designed frame.
PMSL as most people would have no idea what would make a custom frame any better short of - copy that please (which would probably turn out more expensive) and the thought of buying a welder and then learning to weld 🙂
Anyway the Tallboy gets a very good write up and the missus is very made up with hers so I reckon the LT would be good 🙂
mikewsmith - MemberPMSL as most people would have no idea what would make a custom frame any better short of - copy that please
That is totally what I would do 😆 I can weld- well, I can stick bits of metal together with birdshit well enough that they don't break under their own weight- but I couldn't weld a bike, or cut the tubes, or any of that useful stuff. Think I will leave it to the experts.
(if I was customming something, it'd be a new longer slacker front triangle for my Hemlock, but I digress)
Sultan rider here. IMO it's a trail bike. Not stiff enough for hammer-time use and its not slack enough to meet your spec anyway is it?
Built chunky, it gives a good account of itself, but I don't think it has the correct suspension characteristics for big stuff.
I'd be interested to hear why you didn't get on with one North wind.
My default mode is unconstructive slagging so I'll wind it in- it just felt tall and steep, very old-school American. Pedalled amazingly for a 125mm bike, but then I thought, why is it a 125mm bike in the first place? That's a lot of travel for a 29er, and it looks pretty sturdy... but it could be shorter and lighter without giving anything away. I didn't know the geometry but looking at it now I see long chainstays, short reach, highish bb, steep head angle...
Hmm, how did I not know about the Cube Sting? Exact same geometry as the Stereo, but prices starting from £1800- cheaper build and all alu frame mind.
Well if you had the funds the TF01 is the way to go. Stunning details, perfect geo and the rate is supposed to be perfectly linear/progressive. I would have gone that way if I could have got one at anything like what I can get a Specialized for but no chance so E29 it is.
What I would do if I was you is buy the Comp E29 bike and get some Derby rims and eventually Pike/XO1. That combo would stuff a stock carbon E29. The rear suspension is so much better than most bikes that it'll still be fine with the OE shock.
ill suggest the two i have, both by Titus
ti fireline evo 29er fun bike and seems to be able to do everything well
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBTIFLX9/titus_fireline_sram_x9_mountainbike
and titus carbon rockstar, cant comment on how it rides as i only finished building it last night, i built frame only up, so im sure you would spec up in a few areas
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBTIROCKX5/titus_rockstar_sram_x5_carbon_mountainbike
and dont forget fat bikes are 29ers as well 🙂
and dont forget fat bikes are 29ers as well
I'd check your ERD if I were you, you've been short changed
PMSL as most people would have no idea what would make a custom frame any better short of - copy that please (which would probably turn out more expensive) and the thought of buying a welder and then learning to weld
I'd love to buy a tig welder and learn, new frame is an excuse but its not for everyone granted.
Options was asked for and yes what does make a good frame?
R.e. copying- the covert looks good on paper just short (as per other thread) so just "copy" that and add 1.5" to the front triangle?
I've been reading and looking a suspension designs for a while now and still not past the 2d wire frame stage. Getting to grips with balancing chain growth, travel is difficult but in an ineresting way.
Anyway i just want my 5 spot in 29" form (140/150 travel), unfortunaly thats not the sultan and the burner is not worth the swap, same as OP not wanting 650b.
I've got a bit of a thing for a Devinci atlas at the moment. Only 110mm travel frame, but will take up to a 140mm fork.
Also has reversible linkages that slacken and lower the geometry.
I've not ridden one, but good reviews and they look nice, which is as thorough a basis as most STW reccomendations...!
and dont forget fat bikes are 29ers as well
I'd check your ERD if I were you, you've been short changed
not sure what ERD means
maybe i should have said that fat bikes can be 29ers, maybe i should have said "can" be 29ers as the majority of fat tyres are almost identical in size to a 29er diameter
and a krampus can be both
Intense Carbine or Spesh Enduro are the only two even remotely likely top tempt me off my Stereo140.
not sure what ERD means
Effective Rim Diameter, fat bike rims are 26" 29+ rims are 29"(approx)
Spech Enduro is the only on on my want list, coming from a short chainstayed 29er HT myself
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/u/mikelevy/blog/Pinkbike-Gear-Awards-The-Winners.html ]Pink bike[/url]
[url= http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/features/2013-Bike-of-the-Year-Vital-MTB-Shreddy-Awards,24356/sspomer,2 ]Vital [/url]
Both gave bike of the year.
Niner WFO9 looks big and honkin
Yeah, the WFO definitely makes the list.
You're more than welcome to try my Meta AM29, it truely is a beast, destroys trails. Heavy though, but built to last.
Ordered a Horsethief - you're welcome to a go if you like? I'm based in Glasgow - you're in the east - aye?
For those who can't see the point in long travel 29ers, don't knock them till you've tried them. Long travel 29ers make complete and utter sense, great fun. Went out on mine today after a month and a half off it and even though I was taking it easy as I've been off it for a while I had a hoot. Yes you can use them in steam roller fashion if you want, but that misses the point, they just make you want to hunt out bumpier terrain.
For similar use I've a horse thief with 140mm bombers on, chain guide etc. Goes like the clappers. Handles like my old DH bike, take from that what you will....
Cool - 140 Pikes going on mine - looking forward to getting it going...
Holy balls, you can get an end-of-line Horsethief 3 for £1150. There's a lot I'd want to change in there but holy balls nevertheless. And it looks like a bike, too, not like a tool for removing rocks from hooves like some of the others. Wee bit steeper than I like and the chainstays are a mile long but still.
Cheers for the offers of rides- Weeksy yours and Doug's reviews of the Meta is what got it on the list, think we're quite far apart? It doesn't seem that outrageously heavy to me tbh, and more importantly it is as yellow as ****. Sillyoldman, there is a chance I'll take you up on that- but I don't want to bother you right now since I'm still figuring out what to do, but much appreciated.
New and old Horsethiefs are entirely different beasts.
No worries re a ride - email in profile. Drop me a line any time.
Yeah, I see the 2014 is all change. I'm assuming IA's is the outgoing model though?
Holy balls, you can get an end-of-line Horsethief 3 for £1150. There's a lot I'd want to change in there but holy balls nevertheless. And it looks like a bike, too, not like a tool for removing rocks from hooves like some of the others. Wee bit steeper than I like and the chainstays are a mile long but still.
The same amount (though I also got 4% cash back) I just paid for a Ghost AMR 2955. Bit shorter travel agreed, but read the Bikeradar review. Without sounding like a magazine hack, the bike is reckoned to be more capable than its travel would suggest. 440mm stays are a bonus, the low BB with the supplied 110mm fork suggests that it'll take a 120 or 130 happily. I've known people with 26" Ghost AMR's fit 20mm longer forks for the desired effect with good results. Planning on putting a 120mm fork on mine straight away anyway...
Have you looked at the Whyte T-129? A ridiculously capable bike beyond its price point. A few quality issues with the back ends of the first production run so I understand, but get a ride on one if you can.
Oh, and I'll agree on the Pyga's seat mast, my first thoughts were that it's a bit of an afterthought. But if they ride even half as well as the reviews suggest, I'd quickly be able to forget about the ugly seat mast!
The Ghost looks lovely... But having trouble getting over that head angle. I think if I was looking for more of an allrounder I'd be all over it.
The Whyte... it looks brilliant, shorter travel than I really want but the numbers all make sense. But tbh I couldn't get on at all with the 146, just something completely weird about the front end, and I hear from people who've had both that they're quite similiar in ride. I'd love a go but I am skeptic.
BMC Trailfox would be top of my list to try... if I didn't have a Nicolai Ion 15 on order after my test ride 
(very similar geometry, slack head angle, low bottom bracket, short back-end).
The Trailfox does look ace but value-wise it seems awfy expensive, comparing like for like with frinstance the Cube Race which is £200 more but is mostly better specced and Reverb'd up, though I prefer the numbers on the BMC
I love Nicolais but I'll be realistic there, it'd run my budget absolute to the limit- probably means trimming some other parts. Using it as one of the benchmarks though. Not light either (not too harsh a criticism, I expect it's strong like ox)
The Ghost looks lovely... But having trouble getting over that head angle. I think if I was looking for more of an allrounder I'd be all over it.
Don't get hung up on numbers. 69 degrees was par for the course on 26" 120mm travel bikes until very recently, on a 29er it's relatively slack.
The Whyte... it looks brilliant, shorter travel than I really want but the numbers all make sense. But tbh I couldn't get on at all with the 146, just something completely weird about the front end, and I hear from people who've had both that they're quite similiar in ride. I'd love a go but I am skeptic.
Totally different from the 146 I'd say. My opinion of it was that it felt like a short travel
DH bike, but without the weight or the compromises. 120 front and back is plenty with the bigger wheels.
Was looking at the Commencal meta 29er until recently, but decided I'd rather trade some travel for a shorter chainstay. The 26" Ghost AMR is also a properly quick and fun bike to ride, numbers just looked right to me with enough money saved to then work on speccing as I please.
NW, we're a fair few miles yes, but I don't mind driving if you've got some fun trails to play on 🙂
My 'thief is a 2012 one.
I don't care about the "long" stays, as I said, I wanted it to ride like my old DH bike - stable. Also I'm big (6'4") and it comes in a proper XL which is nice, so I've got the leverage to move a long bike around. I suspect stay length maybe matters more for smaller riders?
You can also insert some bollocks about being "in" not "on" the bike.... 😉 But I'd basically read that as "a bike that fits, rather than one that's too small...sorry I should've said chuckable" 😉
Cool, ta for that- I think the Horsethief maybe loses out by being outrageously good value for a full build but with a lot of stuff I'd change anyway. Need to work out the numbers for that. Shame the higher end ones aren't still available and also with a 50% discount 😉
What is so bad about the horsethief full bike? i know the parts aren't the best but they are all good quality and functional aren't they?I ask because I've been considering one myself but keep reading "would have to change all the parts"and its putting me off!
Has anyone seen anything else that can compete on value for money?
Nothing wrong with it whatsoever- I'm just a tart. But also I'll be bringing over some favourite kit from the old bike and I think some of the bits on it might be hard to get a good return on in the classifieds.
Not a criticism of the bike at all though. Reflects worse on me 🙂
Right so where are we at...
Slowly writing off the idea of buying a whole bike then changing bits, I'm too picky, I'll change too much and end up having a frame. So sadly that seems to rule out the lovely Cubes.
(incidentally, if anyone wants a full-carbon Cube here's a silly-cheap one:)
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1861/a80507/cube-stereo-super-hpc-140-race-29-blackline.html
Any love for the Kona Satori here? Seems like another good one, the numbers all look decent and there's a few knocking around.
Oh and is it just me or are all the white Pikes DPA? Highly annoying that, I found a cheap Covert 29 in white, it needs white Pikes, it does not need DPA 🙁
Slowly writing off the idea of buying a whole bike then changing bits, I'm too picky, I'll change too much and end up having a frame. So sadly that seems to rule out the lovely Cubes.
My Ghost arrived this afternoon. It has already been stripped, and tomorrow will start to be built with other parts. Sometimes that's what you gotta do to get the bike you want!
(incidentally, if anyone wants a full-carbon Cube here's a silly-cheap one:)
Damn that's a good price! Not tempted? Only thing that would stop me if I hadn't already bought a bike would be that I don't think I'd need/use 140mm of travel on a 29er.
Oh and is it just me or are all the white Pikes DPA? Highly annoying that, I found a cheap Covert 29 in white, it needs white Pikes, it does not need DPA
Thought about the X-Fusion forks instead? Getting rave reviews...
Oh and mailed you about the DT 10mm end caps when you have 5mins to respond.
If I had a spare £4600 lying around...
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The Ghost looks lovely
Borrocks! You're just being nice, it's mucho ugly. That Enduro [i]is[/i] lovely.
p.s. BS Bingo! - Just need someone to mention square-edged hits for a full house.
Any love for the Kona Satori here? Seems like another good one, the numbers all look decent and there's a few knocking around.
I've got one, but I haven't had it long enough to give a rounded review. Only been out on a couple of big rides so far (in the Peak), and it seems pretty planted and confidence inspiring. Can't wait to get it into bigger mountains. Current build is around 29lbs.
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On-one Codeine? Single ring only and not available yet, but it sounded like it would be a good deal for the frame only.
Cheers Benman
mboy - MemberDamn that's a good price! Not tempted?
Very! Still tempted in fact but I don't think the "spares" would raise an awful lot so it starts out cheap but ends up expensive for the bits I want. They've got a slightly higher spec one in manky green too.
Oh and I am having a disaster with the end caps, somehow lost them- sorry should have emailed. Will find them though!
Codeine looks interesting.
What about a rocky mountain Instinct BC Edition?
The Codeine looks interesting but I have emo-raged On One so it's off the list 🙂 Besides I don't really want to be a beta tester and I can't wait til the revised version with [s]all[/s] most of the issues fixed
Nobody seems to sell the Instinct here unless I'm being stupid
Fairly sure Steve ay I-Cycles has an RM Instinct in at the mo?
FWIW I liked the Covert 29er but it weighed a ton(not scientific measurement) for the middle spec one I tested, not sure the lighter wheels/better spec on the £4k version would've made a huge difference to that? In the end I went for a Sultan(another one!)
I've got the Yeti SB-95 and love it. I had pretty much discounted 29ers and was in the market for either 26 or 650B until I demoed the SB-95. Its so much more versatile than I thought it would be and pedals incredibly well. I'm hitting stuff faster and with so much more confidence than I had on my Nicolai for example. If you find yourself down North Wales way, you're welcome to try it.
I got the Covert with the build kit 3 (lowest spec one) and it weighed in at 33lb's but its no lightweight build, the wheelset alone is 2kg, but in the ball park for this kind of bike based on the research I did when I was shopping for a bike. Since then i've gone 1x10 (with direct mount N-W ring so no retension) and ditched the superflouous parts, gone for a lighter crank and rear mech and brakeset, so maybe saved a pound or so. I was alot slower up hill on it compared to the lightweight XC hardtial I had before (to be expected) - it was a bit of a shock initially, but since then i've got fitter, lost about 8 lbs in body weight, and now i'm not bad up the hills. The good thing about the Covert is it pedals well, so is quite efficient and capable of taking on all day XC rides if you're not trying to break any records, so much so I never use the Climb/pro-pedal mode on the rear shock unless i'm out of the saddle, there is just no need to. So it doesn't feel like a lardy bike.
Visit to Steve's then, he's got one of my wheels so that works out nicely 😆 The Transition frame/shock is one of the heaviest I've looked at, which means that even with really nice kit it'll weigh in about the same as the bike it'd replace, psychology says NO! But it's a really strong contender otherwise.
ironically everyone says the Commencal is heavy but the frame seems pretty competitive, if online figures are to be trusted
(ooh, Freeborn have a brand new medium Covert in rootbeer for £900 incidentally. lots of good deals around, you feel a bit sorry for the folks trying to sell nearly new bikes for more than they now cost)
Very! Still tempted in fact but I don't think the "spares" would raise an awful lot so it starts out cheap but ends up expensive for the bits I want.
Ignore that. For just over £2k you're getting a top notch, carbon fibre frame, with the geometry and travel you want, a top notch fork thrown in, and a smattering of usable (or saleable) kit. If you just kept the frame and fork, and sold the rest, they'd probably owe you about £1600 I reckon. £1600 for a decent carbon full sus frame, and a fork worth about £800 isn't bad going at all! It's cheaper than most off the shelf ally full sus frames on their own!!!
They've got a slightly higher spec one in manky green too.
Not quite as good a bargain, but does come with a Reverb. Personally, if I wanted a 140mm travel FS 29er, I'd struggle to look past the Cubes at those prices... Still a few Commencal Meta AM 29er's kicking about at good prices too though.
Borrocks! You're just being nice, it's mucho ugly. That Enduro is lovely.
I've owned Specialized Enduro's in the past, one thing you could never describe it as is good looking! They are "functional" at best. My Ghost arrived yesterday, by contrast it's a positively good looking bike compared to the Spesh.
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Most 29ers look like the wheels are too close to look [i]right[/i] imo. I prefer the raked out look of the Spesh. Much more purposeful.
edit: Is that pic even a 29?
Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder, but funk me, that Ghost is literally gopping.
IMO the Spec' and the BMC are probably the 2 best looking bigger 29" on the market. The Stumpy Expert is a nice looking bike too, and, dare I say it, the Meta 29 is quite pleasing on the eye 🙂
The Specialized is nice. THis year's grey and blue is a bit less so though.
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Still on the list though 😉 The 26er enduro looks a bit odd by comparison.
mboy - Membera fork worth about £800
TBH the fork is a big turn-off, never met a TALAS I liked. And looking at resales it's probably worth about £250. Still, it is not a ruiner- of all the full builds I've looked at it's the favourite (Enduro Comp being runner up)
FWIW, just fitted a different fork to the Ghost this evening, an X-Fusion Slide RL2 in white at 120mm. Personally, I think aesthetically the bike needs a white fork, though that's not the reason I fitted it. Have raised the front travel slightly now, slackened the head angle (it now measures just on 68.5 degrees) marginally, and the BB height is barely altered (just over 330mm with 2.2" tyres fitted). And with the stem slammed, and flipped, and some flat bars fitted, I can still just about get my desired bar height too.
+1 for the Intense Spider comp... Love mine 😀
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I love my Tracer 29, and despite the fact they stopped making it, there's hardly anything out there I'd swap it for, Carbine 29 included. It's a large, and it's very long (47.5" WB) but it's very fast. With an angleset, I measured the headangle as 67, and the CCDB took it to another level, especially the Rob Cooksley's secret linkage mod. Second hand ones don't go for a lot when they come up, if you can find one. As has been mentioned, strong wheels are the issue with all these 29ers, I've broken a few...
Ah hah... The Intense website says it has a 70 degree headangle with 150mm forks, that always seemed a bit dubious... Very useful, cheers!
And yep, I'm not that hard on wheels but I think if I'm picking my own it'll be flow exes or 821s, or maybe carboncycles. But if it's OEM wheels I shall just batter **** out of them and see what happens 🙂 Most of the 29ers I've ridden have had cheap, hefty wheels and you really feel it (especially the Oranges with their wibbly wobbly wheelbuilds)
Why oh why have Spesh ruined the Enduro with that colour scheme?
More bike than I'd ever need, but I keep looking at them... local demo on in March, I'm looking to try it anyways!
Curse this thread - be damned.
My wallet just exploded, and bought me a Horsethief.
z1ppy - MemberWhy oh why have Spesh ruined the Enduro with that colour scheme?
And no 2013s to be found either, total sellout.