[Closed] So these 'plus' bikes...

Mine seems the same suited uphill and on the flat as my 29er. It can't be as the tyres are a good bit heavier but strava says there's no difference so it must be true. It's certainly nothing significant.

Riding mine rigid most of the time, it's noticeable that I can keep up with most people on the rougher trails in a way I couldn't on a rigid 29er. With a sus fork on, it's crazy and TBH it's me limiting what the bike is capable of.

You can usually swap to 29er wheels if you don't like it (assuming b+ rather than 29+)

I love mine.

Loving the fatter wheels over here 😉 and not as draggy as you might think

I have a plus stumpjumper which I also have a set of 29er wheels that I fit every now and again. I find that the plus are quicker on climbs and the flat and they accelerate quicker too, but this could be because the wheels are lighter (not weighed either). I find the 29er wheels are better in more technical sections though.
You could swap for some standard 27.5 tyres, but you'd need to check how much that would drop the BB height.

Give it a testride if you can, it depends a lot on your riding- I found it better or at least as good as my 29er tyres for some stuff, mostly simpler things- bashing over rocks, some trailcentre stuff, xc on bad tracks- but really pretty terrible at the riding I like most (tweed valley offpiste built by maniacs) so it was a round one knockout and I went back to 29er... But if it suits your riding then it could work.

(if I didn't have a fatbike already I'd be more open to it for a second bike, but I'd rather go full fat)

It also looks awesome.

I was a very early adopted and jumped on the 29+ tyres with one of the first Trek Stache 9 bikes.

After the honeymoon period, I found the drag whilst climbing to be too much of a disadvantage.
Nice cushion effect on the downs, but always seemed to confuse the suspension set up, probably down to me, but it just added an element of suspension set up confusion with low tyre pressures.

Nice enough, but not for me.
Too draggy ultimately, but if you have the legs for it then go for it. Definitely would recommend a test ride, I wouldn't have lost any money selling the Stache on this way.

Denis99 - Member
I was a very early adopted and jumped on the 29+ tyres with one of the first Trek Stache 9 bikes.

After the honeymoon period, I found the drag whilst climbing to be too much of a disadvantage.
Nice cushion effect on the downs, but always seemed to confuse the suspension set up, probably down to me, but it just added an element of suspension set up confusion with low tyre pressures.

Nice enough, but not for me.
Too draggy ultimately, but if you have the legs for it then go for it. Definitely would recommend a test ride, I wouldn't have lost any money selling the Stache on this way.

Are you sure this was drag and not weight?

I've replaced my wheels with carbon ones (-425g), better spokes (-120g), now tubeless (-700g) saving over 3lbs in the wheels. It's made a huge difference. For comparisson, my 29er front wheel and tyre is now only 55g heavier than my 29+ front wheel and tyre.

Too draggy ultimately

Do people who have them switch to narrow 29er wheels and tyres for mud? I understand they are not the best in gloop. My issue is round here it gets a wonderful combination of muddy whilst being rooty and slippy chalk in the wet and I'm yet to find a setup ideally suited (apart from throwing the bike in the shed and going for a run).

The issue i'm currently having is 29+ tyres...is there really nothing tubeless to be had for less than £70?!

Do people who have them switch to narrow 29er wheels and tyres for mud? I understand they are not the best in gloop. My issue is round here it gets a wonderful combination of muddy whilst being rooty and slippy chalk in the wet and I'm yet to find a setup ideally suiting (apart from throwing the bike in the shed and going for a run).

They do float over thick mud, not sinking too much, but they have significant rotational weight and thus require reasonable torque to get them going...meaning they can spin and cake themselves. Ironically, a 2*11 would be great.

Seeing a few deals around on 2016 plus full suss trail bikes

That in itself tells you they aren't selling, and for good reason. The whole 'fat' thing is a busted flush apart from a few odd ones, or people who live in Alaska.

jimfrandisco
The issue i'm currently having is 29+ tyres...is there really nothing tubeless to be had for less than £70?!

Vee Buldozer - mine were under £50 each.

I think I am a lot more honest than a lot of blokes on here, when asked about their choice of bike.
when you spend a lot of cash and then don't like/get on with the bike, it is a big dent on your ego to admit this.

so, I bought a 3k jones plus bike. awesome bit of kit, in the right hands. in a unfit huge 50yr old's hands, it was very cumbersome on the road and on forest tracks. also, did not like the tyre squirm on slow speed rocky stuff.
prior to this bike, I had a cube ltd 29r, which was faster allround, but obviously not has capable at carrying gear.

so plus bikes did not work for me.

I wouldn't have lost any money selling the Stache on this way.

I can't make an empirical judgement on 'draggy-ness' or some other open to massive interpretation attribute, but I find them fun on both the HT and the FS. Summary for me is

- not noticeably more tired riding 2.8s or 3.0s at the end of the day than my 'normal' 2.3 DHR/HR combo
- definitely have more grip in non muddy conditions
- not great in mud. Not great at all
- definitely more cush as well. You may like this you may not. On a HT it defo makes sense, on the FS, maybe less so but I still prefer it
- Not so much tyre choice (esp 29+) and many tyres made over-light for rocky conditions. Tougher tyres add a chunk of heft. Tyres more expensive esp Maxxis
- 29er wheels for muddy conditions (if the frame takes it) a good thing
- 2.5 WT Maxxis do not feel like most of a chubby. Maybe the new 2.6s might.

Test ride essential. I jumped on the Flare Max and loved it instantly. Felt the same way about the Stache.

My main issue was slow climbing.

I'm not the fastest of climbers, and found that, whether it be weight or drag, it was hard work to climb on steeper terrain where there was medium size rocks.

Didn't have the power or strength to provide the ummph to keep the wheels turning.
As I said, could be just right for you after a test ride, as they do keep up their momentum once rolling.

Just another opinion in a sea of opinions.

On the mud thing, I struggled on the original tyres but Nobby Nics have been excellent. I think none of the early tyre choices were good for the UK but things have changed.

I'm loving mine, had the first proper ride on dirt this week. Took me a while to settle on tyre pressures that worked for me but once there it really clicked.

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I think (as is so often the case) a lot of it comes down to the tyres (and your own preferences, of course).

I had a B+ bike last year. Started off in the summer on Trailblazers and loved it. Then things turned a bit muddy and the TBs just couldn't cope, so I switched to Nobby Nic (2.8). I just couldn't get on with these at all. Yes, there was much more grip, but the drag (particularly on climbs) just ruined it. But then I'm one of those weird folk who enjoy the climb at least as much as the descent.

For what it's worth a I sold the B+ and went full-fat (4.8") where I'm finding pretty much the same. In the summer with the Jumbo Jim tyres it seems to climb as well as anything. I've set PRs on a fair few climbs with this heavy fatbike and made it up some climbs that I've never cleared on any other bike. But the JJs can't cope with mud and when I switch to the Bud/Lou combo (which can) it all becomes something of a slow plod (particularly the climbs).

Perversely I'm tending to think of my fatbike as more of a summer bike. I'll still use it on those rides where there is snow on the ground. But for winter slop my old 26" Five with Magic Mary tyres seems to be a better choice.

momo - Member

I'm loving mine, had the first proper ride on dirt this week. Took me a while to settle on tyre pressures that worked for me but once there it really clicked.

momo - what tyres are you running on the Tarn?

On the subject of drag, they might be draggier on road/smooth but are definitely much less draggy on rough ground.

Theyre a pain on the uplift wagons - my mate was last on the bus every time, after having to faff with extra straps as they dont fit in the slots nicely.

Specialized purgatory grid front and rear.

thanks momo!

I absolutely love my Stache 29+. I bought it on a whim because it was cheap. Everything about it screams that it should be rubbish - 29", plus, boost, general nichemongeriness, "look at me"ness. But it's amazing. So good I sold my Transition Trans Am hardtail.

I use it on almost all my winter rides in the Peak District, it's amazing at big lumpy trails. It's not great in slop, but I ride where there's not slop so that doesn't affect me much. It's no slower up hill based on my Strava, but much quicker down than a normal 650b hardtail. Not so fast as a 650b 160mm Transition Patrol, though.

If you ride somewhere mostly gritty rather than muddy I reckon plus bikes are amazing. A friend of mine did a test for one of the mags of a Pole with 650b tyres, 29 tyres and 650b+ tyres on the same bike and 650b+ were the fastest.

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convert - Member

I thought this was debunked as a reality. Heavier and therefore slower to accelerate but not draggy.

I certainly found them draggier when comparing like with like on grip. I didn't try many tyre combos, to be fair, but the Nic/Ron pair I used was roughly as draggy as a pair of 29er minions and on average a fair bit less grippy. I think this probably shows in the tyre choices, the default plus tyres seem to be faster and less grippy options to mitigate that

(in some circumstances the big tyres can add a load of stability and grip which could go a long way to offset that, if that suits your riding, I think)

Now it's possible they just sucked- they're schwalbes after all- but scotroutes has my Nic now and likes it.

I rode a 27.5 full sus and a 27.5+ full sus back to back yesterday, plus bike much faster up hill, it was a model with less travel and less weight but bigger tyres really do not feel draggy. My fatbike feels pretty nimble uphill, horrible on firetracks but amazing offroad.

Been riding 29+ since 2013 - firstly by squeezing some tyres onto a regular 29er with 2mm of clearance before getting a custom ti frame built. Love the fact that once you wind it up to speed, it has bomb-proof handling - even with a rigid fork I can leave my mates on regular hardtails and short-travel FS behind as I have fewer worries about roots, rocks and ruts. I only weigh 60kg, but never have a problem climbing plus the big wheels mean I can roll-over logs and lips. As for tyres, worn-out my Knards and just got some 120tpi Chronicles for £50 each - tubeless on Velocity Blunts. Having worn the rear out, took it for a ride with a 29x2.4" tyre on my normal trails - crashed a few times because of lack of grip - it was horrible and lesson learnt.

Undecided.

Love the idea, but it's hilly and muddy round here and tyre prices are obscene.

the clearance on the jones with a 3'' chronicle was horrendous. riding in mud was impossible. one of the factors in selling it.

I've had a Stumpy FSR 6fattie for almost a month now. Generally as above, the grip on wet mud isn't great, but anywhere else its like velcro. I'm running the stock Purgatory front, Ground Control rear, and its certainly not a lot draggier than a similar setup on 2.1/2.2 tyres.

It took some time to nail/balance the pressures both in the suspension and tyres, to mitigate the collapsing sidewalls while still having low enough pressure to grip.

All in all though, I love it, you can just fire it over roots and rocks, almost without the requirement of picking a line.

Only downsides are as I said, wet mud and the time it takes to get the setup correct.

I spent 7 months on a rigid Surly Krampus before it got nicked. (Still angry about that...)

I quite liked it. The issue I had was lack of tyre availablity, it was Chronicles or Knards at the time but that's improved a fair bit now.

I found it would chug along quite nicely on the flat, easy climbs were a bit of a chore due to the overall weight, techy climbs were ace as you had daft amounts of grip. Downhill it was a beast! So much fun for a rigid bike.

Bikepackers got on well with them and I'd be very tempted to get another for that purpose eveen though I have a "normal" trail hardtail 29er.

Definitely found it's seasonal but I'm also just plus at the front as it were.

29 Chronicles and 2.4 on the back Summer (sometimes 650 2.8)
and mud tyres (Beaver EXO) in the Winter. All tyres EXO which have held up well puncture-wise.

Plenty of clearance on a Jones with mud tyres. The mud tyres are for the mud.

I'm really mystified as to why my experience is so different to so many of you. I just don't seem any slower anywhere and mud isn't an issue (though it's different - drifty but no sudden slippage). In fact I'm heading out in a minute to mud surf on the Mendips.

Had a few hard tails over the years but none last long, as other than steady flowing trails I just don't seem to gel with them. The thought of covering more ground quickly on xc loops draws me in but sadly the reality is as well as being slower on any technical descent it's also harder on a rocky or loose climb as the traction just isn't there, instead a kind of deflection over every rock and bump those making it harder to maintain momentum.

As a last try I've just built up a frame ready to take 30mm internal rims and I'm going to go 2.8 Nobby nic apex front and back or 2.6 rear and hope fully this coupled with a bit of built in flex and comfort via a ti frame I might finally get the Ishtar hard tail, just hoping like the op it's not too draggy on fire road or road climbs.

blisterman1962 - Member
Theyre a pain on the uplift wagons - my mate was last on the bus every time, after having to faff with extra straps as they dont fit in the slots nicely.

Some interesting experiences, really appreciate the feedback.

The bike I'm looking at is last years Scott genius 710 plus. Reviewed last year in single track and can now get it for about half price.

Just not sure about whether I'm understanding the purpose of 27.5+; is it fat-lite or (I'm hoping) the evolution of when I used to run big volume dh tyres on my screen bike to avoid pinch flats in the rough stuff? I really just want a fun mid-travel trail bike that can be thrown around and survive as my riding style has always been more 'charge' than 'finesse'.

Rusty Spanner - Member
Undecided.

Love the idea, but it's hilly and muddy round here and tyre prices are obscene.

There's no hills or mud where I live, maybe that's why I like mine.

that nice sandy stuff round aviemore isn't mud.
the stuff round rammy and rossendale is like finest crude oil compared to the scottish stuff........... 😆

My experience..

Low enough pressure to get the 'plus tyre benefits' (smooth ride, immense grip) is great when cruising around, but as soon as you get aggressive the tyres bottom out on rocks/roots. High enough pressure (only a few psi more) to ride aggressively without pinching the sidewalls and they ride like a regular tyre at 40psi. I also didn't like the slow direction change when leaning the bike, they feel like they take forever to roll on to the side tread but never really bite (more aggressive tyres may differ)

Maybe they would be well suited to those huck norris things..?