[Closed] So the french are still trying to drive us Brits out of the alps

(Looks at article. Sees that it's in the Telegraph. Decides that it's probably about as 'objective' as a tory speaking about welfare reform. Sees that thread title is utterly hysterical and complete nonsense. Decides it's nothing to actually be concerned about. Leaves thread to the knee-jerkers)

thx1138 jumps to conclusion based on own personal prejudice, convinced of his/her own moral superiority.

Wanders away from thread once again bored by the shouty moral outrage of a few STW posters who maybe should get out more and post less.

I'm more than happy to go with my knee-jerk reaction on this one tbh.
Protectionist - yep.

[i]the french are still trying to drive us Brits out of the alps[/i]

and if enough of 'us' vote with our wallets no doubt they'll have succeeded and will then relax the rules to lure us all back again.

anyone who feels strongly about this should avoid France for any winter or summer sports and let the Tourist authorities in the areas they would have visited how much money they've lost?

It must be so sad when your political bias determines your opinion of absolutely everything.

Yep, go to austria or italy instead. There was a fantastic tirade by the chief exec of Titan Inc a few weeks ago which laid down a few home truths regarding french manufacturing.

It must be so sad when your political bias determines your opinion of absolutely everything.

That's Fred for you

Not just France doing this though. Canada have made it so UK workers have to have more than 16hrs a week before they will grant a visa. The ski schools can't guarantee this so visa's are not getting released.

My friend, who has a Canadian wife and child, was it allowed to enter Canada die to this.

I think giving a work permit to someone and attaching conditions about the number of hours they must work to it isn't unreasonable?

France being within the EU is a different matter.

all us bloody foreigners going over there stealing their jobs

There's so much good riding in other parts of Europe that are easily accessible, so why the infatuation with France? Its not like they make an effort to promote themselves to us.

I say this as a permanent resident of Austria, but one of the reasons I ended up here is after exploring further afield than Franceland.

wrecker - Member

It must be so sad when your political bias determines your opinion of absolutely everything.

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Yep, go to austria or italy instead

Yes, Always been Austria or Italy for our skiing.
and Italy's my first choice for MTB too.

There's so much good riding in other parts of Europe that are easily accessible, so why the infatuation with France? Its not like they make an effort to promote themselves to us.

Easy and quick to access from UK with easy trail access and good, English speaking guiding companies would be my guess, as well as a longer history of 'extreme' mountain biking.

Austria is trickier to get to and further from the beaten path, despite the Austrians building some decent parks and becoming more 'all mountain' MTB friendly (I worked in Kitz as a guide briefly).

Hmm, that report does overlook the fact that he didnt have an ISTD (BASI 4), which is required if you are to teach in France.

Speaking from experience, I know how seriously the French take sports education and even to coach small sports clubs you need some pretty hefty qualifications.

That combined with a bit of good-ole protectionism, bien sur

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MSP, you must have me confused with someone else. I'm not particularly political, left or right.

stumpyjon - Member
thx1138 jumps to conclusion based on own personal prejudice, convinced of his/her own moral superiority.

😆 Shame he won't see your post as he really, really does need to.

Good work.

There's so much good riding in other parts of Europe that are easily accessible, so why the infatuation with France? Its not like they make an effort to promote themselves to us.

+1

and the joy of not being in France is that you don't have to deal with the French.

Is there any requirement for someone to be a French national to get that there ISTD (BASI 4) qualification? If not, why would someone who has been instructing for ages bother to get it. Seems to me from reading a few websites (note, not bothered to spend more than 30 seconds on any of them) that it shouldn't be too hard to get it. He can even get the qualification in Blighty and then go over there to show Johnny Foreigner how to teach skiiing.

Seems to me from reading a few websites (note, not bothered to spend more than 30 seconds on any of them)

You're overqualified to comment on a STW thread.

So if someone qualified as a driving instructor in France, would he be able to use that qualification to teach learner drivers in England? Does anyone think it would be advisable that he would be able to?

Quid pro quo!

So if someone qualified as a driving instructor in France, would he be able to use that qualification to teach learner drivers in England?

Thing is, if the driving instructor test is an internationally recognised qualification (which it seems the skiing test is), the answer would be yes.

+1
and the joy of not being in France is that you don't have to deal with the French.

From experience, they are way easier to deal with than Germans.

If there is truly something anti competitive (ie equal qualifications from other countries not being recognised) why doesnt someone take them to the European court? Surely it would be an easy win, or are foreign quals less rigorous?

Thing is, if the driving instructor test is an internationally recognised qualification (which it seems the skiing test is), the answer would be yes.

Driving test is Europe wide, but it is fair and actually pretty essential that instructors have knowledge of local legislation and conditions. Nothing stopping the Brits gaining the correct local qualifications.

The French have also been trying (and I think have succeeded) in stopping English ski hosts from showing their clients around the mountain as they have lumped ski-hosting in with ski-instruction which can only be done by qualified ski instructors.

The thing is, I actually sympathise with them a little bit. I was in Méribel a couple of months ago and it's not actually possible to order a beer in French from a French person there.. We ate in a restaurant (Oxygen?) run by English people with an English menu and when a young French couple came in they had to order burgers because they couldn't understand the menu and the waiter couldn't translate it for them.
Can you imagine if, for example the Peak District, was over-run with French people in the same way that Morzine, Méribel and Les Gets are with Brits?

French ski resorts - overpriced, overcrowded, ugly, unfriendly, crap food, full of English people - give me Austria any day.

Can you imagine if, for example [s]the Peak District[/s] London, was over-run with [s]French people[/s] Australians in the same way that Morzine, Méribel and Les Gets are with Brits?

If this had been in the UK we would be all up in arms about foreigners stealing local jobs.

I read the artical and couldnt work out if he had a locally recognised qualification or not. I would expect him to have one, so if he doesnt, I cant see the reason for the fuss.

The EU just dosent really work in practice.

If this had been in the UK we would be all up in arms about foreigners stealing local jobs.

So do you complain daily about the Aussie barstaff, Polish plumbers etc.?

It would be hard to argue that bar staff require local qualifications, but it could well be sensible that building trades should have some training and pass a qualification to ensure they understand local regulations and practices. Of course the wants of business to force down labour rates will always trump such solutions in the UK.

That combined with a bit of good-ole protectionism, bien sur

What's bien sur got to do with it? 😆

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+1 MSP.

I thought we all liked Polish Plumbers as they were not lazy and did a good job 🙂

I also often wonder just how guides get paid - do they get paid legally and pay local taxes ? Or is it cash and tips or money into their local country bank account or even PayPal ?

I worked as a guide abroad and most of my fellow guides were all under the tax radar. None of them thought it was an issue. Which was not really fair to the locals who would have to pay tax.

So yeah, anyway, how long did the instructors without the right qualification have to go get it?

It affected my daughters season in Chamonix [hosting ban], as it affected the bookings her company had. They have [French] set the ball rolling for a lot of companies to pull out of French resorts.

Bit hard to tell from the article but it seems the issue is the insisting the organisation has to have at least 10 qualified people, which does sound like a bit of ESF protectionism if it's true.

Think the issue in this case isn't that he doesn't hold a BASI lvl 4 but that he doesn't hold the French equivalency (Euro speed test).

The hosting issue is related but not the same thing. I'm not sure which company in Chamonix was losing bookings because of the reinforcement of the hosting rules but that's not what ourselves and our peers have experienced here.

Mr Casey, who is originally from Folkestone in Kent, had been an instructor in Megève for more than a decade, but is now officially banned from doing so because he lacks a qualification expected by the French.

So in ten years he couldn't manage to qualify as French skiing instructor... Hummm

Think the issue in this case isn't that he doesn't hold a BASI lvl 4 but that he doesn't hold the French equivalency (Euro speed test).

I thought it was a case of holding either BASI 3 + speedtest or BASI 4 for eligibility to teach in France. I could well be mistaken, but that was my impression.

Still, it's good to hear that business has not been affected by the skihosting clampdown.