[Closed] So, Llandegla has a few climbs, doesn't it...?

it's not just you, i also like a good climb but LLandegla takes the biscuit.

Not [i]hard[/i] but so, so dull - which is sort of inexcusable really, considering it's a 'designed' trail.

my wife had more or less refused to go back to LLandegla, there just isn't enough fun in the blue descent to justify that enormous, endless climb.

I don't mind it. One long climb rather than up, down, up etc...
Once you are up it's fun all the way down (more or less)

I hate that climb. I was so bored by it and thrilled at the sight of an actual feature that I sprinted into the two berms before the junction at the top, decided I was so awesome that I would jump the end of the berm and land on the fire road... only to discover the 6ft ditch beyond the berm.

The ensuing 3 mile stroll back to the centre with a broken arm + shoulder was only made worse by having to explain that I'd done it on the climb rather than anything interesting.

It's the way it teases you with a tiny bit of downhill in amongst the big climbs, then straight into another uphill slog. "Julia's Trail" was a particular low point (pun intended). The opening (easy) climb with big views was so promising 😆

Mackem I didn't find that at all. The second half was up and down all the time, but mostly up towards the end.

I quite like getting most of the climbing out of the way. Crack on, get it done, then enjoy the rest of it.

I do find trail centres are more fun if I'm blasting round as quick as you can rather than the sort of bimbling along I enjoy in the wilds.

Horses for courses. I find the climbing at Llandegla fairly mellow compared to other trail centres.

Conversely, the climbs at CyB do my head in as does the last fire road bit on the north loop at Whinlatter.

We really enjoyed it. Didn't know what to expect having never ridden there before, sat on the long gentle climb that it starts with thinking "oh, is this it? Ah well at least the scenery's nice" (which people use to defend the abomination that is Penmachno), and then turned onto the singletrack and discovered it was a hoot*. Lots of twisty little climbs within the rest of the trail so it feels very compact but we had a blast and are returning on our next Wales mini-roat-trip in a month.

Afan's Y-Wall starts with a [i]real[/i] slog of a climb, the Llandegla one is such a low gradient as to almost pass you by.

*this was the red run so can't speak for the blue.

The opening climb didn't bother me; I thought it was a good warm up with interesting views. It was all the other climbs that kept appearing during the last half that annoyed and disrupted the fun

The switchback climbs there are awful... quite hard too. I find the initial climb a breeze and interesting enough as you get to chat to your mates who you've met up with while taking it easy for the slower lads in the group. But the foresty switchback climbs are not fun at all.

Don't mind the initial climb at llandegla, it is a bit of a slog but it also stretches your legs after a long drive. The descents are worth it but it kind of peters out at the end. The freeride section is a pedalfest as well, would have been better on a steeper slope.
Conversely the climbs at Gisburn are some of the best trail centre climbs I've done.

ah, the switchbacks. I did find them tough but that's cos I'm fat, unfit and rubbish at tight turns. To be honest if they'd not been there I'd have had to stop to let my forearms recover from the descents.

The main climb has suffered from all the trees being cut down.
That wiggly bit at the top, I just miss out now by going on the straight fireroad. It seems so pointless.

If the trees ever return, I'll reconsider 🙂

Some people are never happy are they. you endure the boring climb to get to the fun descent, happy in the knowledge that you are getting fit and healthy while you do it. If you are getting bored then chat to a friend, or go on an imaginary quest in your head. Solve problems that you haven't had chance to think about during the busy week or make plans for your next holiday.

If you are really struggling then strap a TV to your handle bars and watch Easterners...just like those mindless zombies at the gym.

Some people are never happy are they.

Damn right 😆

I had high expectations and they weren't quite met. I just wondered if others felt the same and apparently they do. I'll be back there, no doubt, but this time I'll be prepared for the climbing.

chat to a friend

Other than on the opening fireroad section I really don't think there's room to ride two abreast nattering about what you had for tea on the other climbs

ndthornton - Member
...you endure the boring climb to get to the fun descent...

why not have an interesting climb?

there's no reason at all why a climb can't be just as much fun (imho) as any descent, some of my favourite trails [i]are [/i] climbs.

a man-made climb that's hard work and boring is a badly-made man-made trail.

Christ, maybe they are limited in what they can do on that opening long climb section due to land use? maybe they feel it's the easiest way of people getting to the trail head without knackering themselves with an interesting 'technical' climb straight out the gate.

It covers a fair distance so no matter what you do with it people are not going to be content.

Also consider the fact that the blue route uses the climb and as such it needs to be easy enough both technically and in gradient for all users.

that's sort-of my point,

...the blue route uses the climb and as such it needs to be easy enough both technically and in gradient for all users...

in my wife's opinion, it's too hard and boring.

you can try arguing, but by arguing against my wife, you're automatically in the wrong.

That opening climb is hardly worthy of being called a climb, the gradient is so gradual.

boring yes, but too hard? maybe you could take her to ride some disused railway lines instead. With a café stop at the end, and a trip to buy cushions/curtains on the way home, you're sorted.

MrNice - Member
...maybe you could take her to ride some disused railway lines instead. With a café stop at the end, and a trip to buy cushions/curtains on the way home, you're sorted.

that's patronising, and more than a little sexist.

classy.

Interesting how most of you are thinking of the opening, wide, flat(ish), long but easy climb. I started this OP not with that climb in mind. I have no problem with that climb. It's a nice warm up. It's the countless other climbs that interrupt the fun and flow far too often in the last half of the red/black trail that I got annoyed with.

Llandegla red and black is about 1600 foot of climbing over about 12/13 miles. It's not a lot really. I hate climbing,but don't find Llandegla climbs a massive chore, they do of course stop the 'flow', but what sort of climb wouldn't stop the flow? A chairlift assisted one maybe?

At the end of the day it's all down to the hill they have to work with. They are not long meandering hills, they are short sections cut into the sides with little option but to add in flow stopping climbs.

I just think you need to look at the terrain they are working with before declaring it not as good as it should be. They are riders as well, if they could make a much better trail without the need for these sections I'm sure they would.

It's all opinions though, and catering for everyone is impossible.

Those climbs at the end of the black section levelled the talent out amongst us - the fast ones downhill were caught on the ups. Made an interesting cat and mouse game, which I thought was the point? Found it all great fun really. The climb up? Just an excuse for a grand chat. By the way, arm breaker above, was that last summer? We did bump into a group who'd broken something at those berms. Personally I'd have walked to the pub from there, not the centre itself. Closer surely?

It's not the biggest trail centre in the world, and I think they do a great job with what they've got. Personally, I prefer climbing to descending, and think the mix is just right. Loads of people will think the climbs are too tough, only too visible by the huge number of people seen pushing up loads of them. But we all have different fitness levels, so if you need to walk, you need to walk.
Biggest thing for me is that age old problem with trail centres, and that's loads of people seem to ride nothing else, so as a result, you'll always get bored with something because you're doing it all the time. I've virtually stopped riding at Delamere for that very reason. If the first climb at Llandegla was part of a natural ride you wouldn't bat a eyelid at it, but because everyone has to go up it every time they ride at Llandegla then they get bored of it. Answer is to ride other places too.

you'll always get bored with something because you're doing it all the time

Not always. My mate - who rides at 'Degla quite regularly - loves it but finds Cannock a bit dull. I ride Cannock frequently and never get bored of it (even the climbs!). It is true that one always compares their "local" patch with other places and sometimes things don't live up to expectation.

That said I [i]AM[/i] looking forward to going back there and riding those tabletops properly 🙂

that's patronising, and more than a little sexist.

classy.

I was using a very obvious sexist stereotype for comedy value. It's called humour. Obviously you'll now tell me I'm using the Edinburgh defence but it should have been clear to you I wasn't serious. Given you had already made reference to always being in the wrong it's a bit rich to now get so precious. Get over yourself.

The climb that gets me is in Nant yr Arian. Bloody thing goes on forever. I think its called the Leg Burner.

I don't mind the long first drag at 'degla but it's a road-trip ride for us so there's generally a good group of us and it's easy to chat away the miles. That steep bitch half way along the black though, what's it called - cruel and unusual?

Raven at Brechfa is if anything worse.

The black seems to end with a climb, maybe I went the wrong way? Didn't it used to end with a drop into the bike cleaning bit?

Try the bridleway out of the centre, past the Ponderosa and off over the hills beyond. Only then can you lot moan about a climb 🙂 Or ride in from Llangollen using the old horseshoe pass - now that was fun....

get an ebike? One over took me on a climb at llandegla a while back and wearing a full face helmet too. I was quite jealous as my lungs were screaming for air. The climbs at llandegla seem pretty taxing to me, I wouldn't call them boring, they are just tougher than most other north wales trail centrem climbs. or thats how I find them at least. You see a lot of people pushing at Llandegla which is unusual elesewhere.

Just ride it on a rigid singlespeed and you can play the game of how many whinging enduro boys on boningy bikes can you pass on the climbs and then happily dive into the berms erc..whilst they're having a breather at the top. Even my lady kicks up the climbs on a single speed fat bike so the chap who wife is complaining needs to woman the fk up as apparently shes letting the side down

Try Coed y Brenin; I've seen people off and walking downhill there. Push at Llandegla? Now where's the spirit? I've seen children ride it all quite happily.

Mtb'rs complaining about climbing mountains on their Mtb 😆 😆
I love Stw it just keeps on giving.

I have no problem with that climb. It's a nice warm up. It's the countless other climbs that interrupt the fun and flow far too often in the last half of the red/black trail that I got annoyed with.

The thing that gets me is the boardwalk sections and the fact I'm expected to launch the bike off at the end.

Eh? You can just roll off the end of them all,no launching needed as far as i remember. Definitely can be done wheels on ground all the way round.

I'm sure I've read the guys from OPA saying that there is a long term ambition to make the initial climb more singletrack and interesting but in the short term they think people would rather they prioritise spending on new downhill singletrack sections.

taxi25, I'm with you - mountain bikers complaining about hills! Tell me it's not real?!

As has been said earlier, the initial climb has evolved since opening, initially it was entirely enclosed by trees and in places was singe file with some steep sided drops either side into ditches. Over the years it's been widened in places, reflecting the popularity of the place.

If the main climbs are single track, be ready for a lot more 'I went to Llandegla and got held up on the initial climb' type threads!

Eh? You can just roll off the end of them all,no launching needed as far as i remember. Definitely can be done wheels on ground all the way round.

There's a new bit that you definitely can't roll off, unless it's changed, it's a good couple of years since my last visit.

Was there last week,all rollable, i think thats one of their standrds, ie everything is rollable

They do have some blacker than black within the black sections. The main drag is all rollable, but the more extreme bits are a bit heavy - there's a big drop off some rock for one. I walked away from that bit. No doubt somebodies three year old did it on a push along...

blacker than black within the black sections. The main drag is all rollable, but the more extreme bits are a bit heavy

Yeah, they have these off-piste bits that, from memory, are Orange graded. Not sure the black went up to ten in the first place though?

Definitely nothing "blacker than black" at 'Degla, that drop off included tbh.

With regards to the climb here, or indeed most places, it pays to remember that these are working forests and having a lovely bit of windy singletrack to climb up isn't going to be possible all the time. That said, a few mini offshoots would help break up the monotony somewhat, and should be feasible most places including 'Degla.

they have these off-piste bits that, from memory, are Orange graded

a few mini offshoots would help break up the monotony somewhat, and should be feasible most places including 'Degla

Oy Ryan! There are people on here pushing out of the car park. Put them in front of that drop! 🙂 I think even Llandegla describe the bits as beyond their black? Not trolling - off-piste to me just means off the main trail. There are these little runs all over the place, signposted off the main trails. Most just funny dips or a bit of boardwalk off the main drag. Dunno. Don't really care - just waiting on a meatloaf to cook, hence wasting time on here.

I think Llandegla is great by the way. Seems to have a bit of everything for everybody.

The only drop off a boardwalk I can think of is the one at the start of the B-line. There a bit of a drop down to the trail and it does look a bit intimidating. But I've done it and I have no rad or gnarr-ness at all. It's much easier than it looks. To be fair the B-line is marked as an orange/black freeride trail and marked as a step up from the black.

Was there last week,all rollable, i think thats one of their standrds, ie everything is rollable

They do have some blacker than black within the black sections. The main drag is all rollable, but the more extreme bits are a bit heavy - [b]there's a big drop off some rock for one[/b]. I walked away from that bit. No doubt somebodies three year old did it on a push along...

It's changed since the last time I was there then. Might pop back then. 😀

taxi25, I'm with you - mountain bikers complaining about hills! Tell me it's not real?!

You've done good rides and bad rides I assume. What made the bad rides bad and the good rides good? Were some a bit muddier than others? A bit longer/shorter? Were some a bit too flat? Were some a bit tame on the descents? Or perhaps a bit risky...?

...Were some less enjoyable than others on the climbs? That. That's what I'm talking about.

Mountain bikers having an opinion on STW. Whatever next? 😉

I was there a couple of days ago and there are a couple of drop-offs that would probably end up in an over-the-bars moment if drop-offs were not your forte.

Just looked on YouTube. People seem to ride around the edge of that rock section. Always assumed people rode off the lip itself? Surely riding around it is not in the spirit of the enterprise? Anybody can do that - but down the vertical bit? Bet not many of us here would.

The trails outside of Coed Llandegla are great fun - especially the rocky trail into Llangollen, or that silly steep gully the Land Rovers have carved into. The ride back up is not so pleasant though. Worth it for a massive slice of pie at the Ponderosa. Oh man, I'm salivating now! Pie... Yum.

I spent two weeks at Llandegla last year. Rode every day, but only at Coed perhaps four times. Preferred the hills really.

And pie.

I love Llandegla, my local, but I do find the big dull climb at the start tends to discourage a second lap! Haven't found that at other trail centres that don't all share a common start, hence can be more interesting out of the car park.

Incidentally, for a beast of a starting climb, it's got to be White's Level at Afan! Was at Hopton a few weekends ago, and seemed to be going uphill the whole time there! All subjective I guess.

The 'wooden drop' is that the one on B-Line or that massive long elevated thing they've got on the main trail?

They're both rollable, the big high one is better rolled imho - it doesn't really lend itself to me dropping off it, the boardwalk on B-Line is better dropped onto and off again at the other end.

You can roll off at 1'24"?

The b-line feels like it's been made easier since it opened, I'm pretty sure that the end is rollable (but why not learn to manual!). Last time I was there a group of 4 were walking the b-line boardwalk

The initial climb at Llandegla is dull, but then it's busy and let's the quicker riders get past. It's a steady climb so I tend to ride a lap of the red with blacks, then the blue to finish (the blue really is superb fun, and often quiet). The steep climbs at the end of the red do me in, but that's because I'm fat. I don't moan about it, I just try harder each time.

Also I much prefer Llandegla on my 100mm XC hardtail. Miles easier on the climbs and more than enough on the descents.

Never done Llandegla. Are the climbs as bad as Penmachno ? I do loads of ascents (I've done the Mary Townley Loop in June and last Sunday I did a mega hilly 34 mile ride - 1300m of ascent!) but found the climbs at Penmachno particularly boring. Fireroad, slow & steep, no views at all due to the forests, and loads of flying insects chasing me a lot. I was on my own though which made them a bit boring, was also suffering from a bad back and my legs were dead because I'd previously done 2 days riding a combined 60 miles along the north wales coast cycle route, one of them into a terrible headwind. That probably didn't help. To make things even worse there was one point when I made a wrong turn and took a massive fast descent down a fireroad only to realise I'd gone wrong and had to slog back up it again.

If the climbs are bad at Llandegla I'll probably wait until I can do it with someone else because boring climbs when I'm on my own can be demotivating.

Sometimes when I'm bored on climbs I try to practice doing wheelies (not that I can ever hold them) takes away the boredom a bit but usually I don't have the energy to waste.

(but why not learn to manual!)

You can roll all of degla including the b line. I'm crap on a bike so I can't manual.

The climb; its nothing. Make it better by parking up world's end and going across the bridleway on the boards. 15 mins to the top then. And a fun descent on the way back down. Plus the parking is free.

@/captainsasquatch

Yeah, it's far smoother to give a little pop to get off, but it's easier than it looks, the gap from the bottom of the wood to the ground is pretty small, you can just roll off, but it's a bit jarring.

'The Don' of course is going faster than most people will be going, I've seen him ride at Degla, he's amazingly quick, quicker than he looks on videos.

I enjoy all the climbs at Llandegla. 🙂
That rock drop off (the one at the start of "parallel universe" where you can choose between 2 routes?) is okay. I can do it on my hardtail and I'm rubbish. It's not possible to ride down the side of it because it's got wooden fencing to stop you.

Captainsasquatch
The drop at the end of the first boardwalk on the B line as seen in the video at 1:24 has been modified since the video.
The landing has been raised making the drop rollable.
Stu

I don't think I've come across anything red/black grade at a trail centre that isn't roll able yet. The jump stuff is usually graded orange I think but I can't do any of that

How long and steep is this entry climb? Anyone got a strava link? Need to put the OP In some perspective lol

I remember seeing it on Strava and from memory it was a 3% gradient for 3 miles

stilltortoise, sorry, I didn't mean to offend, I just find it strange that people complain about having to climb in a sport with 'mountain' in it; but as you say, thats just my opinion.

Personally, I like the climbing bit (after I've done it!), almost as much as the downhill bits; but that's what makes this sport great, there's something in it for everybody. And we're both in agreement that Llandegla's a fantastic set up.

Tell you what, if I ever see you there, I'll buy you a bacon buttie - makes the whole thing worthwhile!

Llandegla, the only trail centre I've ridden where I was surprised to pop out at the finish thinking I was a lot higher than I was, expecting more descent 🙁

The first climb at Llandegla is about 3 miles long and goes up by about 500-600 feet,its not a big deal.

It takes 20 minutes if your fast, 35 minutes if your slow.

I just looked on Strava and the first 3-mile climb has an average gradient of 3%. The steepest Strava section I could find in that first climb is about 5%.

That doesn't sound a lot, when on a lot of natural trails there are long ascents with an average grade of 7 to 10%.

@rorschach, my suggestion was going along the lines of literally small obstacles much like the ones recently added over Cannock chase on the FTD. Nothing too radical, just a little something extra, and whilst I get where you're coming from, it's an obvious shortfall which could contribute towards people not returning, so I disagree it doesn't put bums on seats.
@muddyground, I think the majority have spoken. It's a pretty normal feature for the trail designation and therefore I wouldn't describe it as "gnar". I wouldn't expect anybody pushing out the car park to be attempting black routes anyhow, if they feel it's too much Llandegla has something for everyone, as you rightly point out.....a cafe in this case 😛

Do the first climb quicker just to get it out of the way?

Also, of these turning up and finding the climbing vs reward ratio poor, how many of you are on 160mm gnar-poon bikes with big sticky tyres?

3 miles 3%, doesnt sound a lot then, standard fare around the peaks to get to the top of decents, and steeper too, always find them enjoyable. Getting faster at climbing, gives fitness gains on the flat too 🙂

Aside from installing a chairlift, or building a road to take bikes up in transit, how can they make it better? Adding singletrack just ain't going to work with how busy trail centres get.

@TrekEX8 absolutely no offence taken and yes, if I see you there, I'll have a bacon buttie. I'll be the one grumbling about the climbs 😀

To be honest this thread didn't quite lead where I thought it would. Most people are commenting on the opening climb, which I thought was a really pleasant and easy way to warm up, gain height and chat to your mates with some big views. There are a lot worse trail centre climbs out there.

My grumble was with the second/half of the red/black stuff where it felt like there was far too much up for the amount of down. Julia's Trail was particularly guilty of this and as for whoever it was who said they could do it all in the big ring, you are Nino Schurter and I claim my prize.

Is this where people start perusing e-Bikes as an alternative to peddaling? I recall a post in the Ard-Rock Enduro thread where some one was moaning that they had seen folk pushing..........

I watched the short film of the Ard Rock and noticed quite a few pushing?

The fortunate thing with MTB'ing is taht you have to go up to come down, the alternative is Canal Tow path or Similar, surely the ups a Degla cant be that Meh, its not long enough for a start, I rode there a few weeks ago and counted 7 Adders on the first climb basking in the Sun. a few pleasantrys from other riders and i even stopped to take a few pics of the view.

I've ridden dego a lot over the last few years and I've heard lots of people me ton that it feels like all time us spent climbing. I think it's because the descents are pretty smooth / not really technical that they can be covered very quickly. It does then seem like you spend very little time on the descents. In comparison, I rode at macc forest the other day and did the cat and fiddle loop. The steep descent back down is literally one rock to another, mega tricky and consequently pretty slow. It seemed like it took as long to get down as it did to do the climb up ( although two of us had a lie down mid way down, which showed us up) . overall I like dego, and at the end of the day you have to go up to come down!!

cruzcampo - Member

Adding singletrack just ain't going to work with how busy trail centres get.

works at Glentress, possibly THE busiest trail centre.

That's a lovely climb, almost worth the trip alone.