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Whenever I found myself having to corner in the bunch I was like "Right come on guys, hold your lines, eye's up, easy now!" If it saved one near miss then it was worth sounding like a wally 😆
I'm not surprised Nath, a lot of people told certain other people they were being dangerous and they carried on the same! Carried on until the crash in fact 😆
I only had one lap where I was fast enough to not feel able to pedal Brians apex TiRed, the Chinese frame was flexing like crazy 😆
Well done CH. Sounds like you really enjoyed that one.
Do I care that the Vegan Cyclist isn’t winning any races? No, but I lap up his videos because he encapsulates the type of racer I want to be. Strong, brave, attacking and active.
Are you talking about 'Eat Plants'? He must be local to me as he's right up there on most of my local hills. Some of his stuff is quite good, but in one of his videos he was giving dietary advice along the lines of "Massive amounts of refined sugar is where it's at", which basically completely contrary to current science. 😕
No, this dude:
He seems to be doing 1000w sprints everywhere 😆
CH, all the +brownie points you've accumulated in this thread have been burnt in 1 go by making us watch that dude for 19mins....
CH you got me thinking about the race in a couple of weeks...
I've got 17 points this season, 23 until cat 2 - which given that if the IWS isnt running only gives me a handful of races. Therefore I've decided that racing for points isn't for this year.
So the plan, try and ride off the front. Quick strategic sprint just after the start of a corner and then hold 340w/185bpm in the most aero position I can muster (I've tested this at 350w for 40 mins). I'm thinking if I go stupidly early people will think I'm crazy and just let me be? Haha
I've just signed an employment contract and finish work at 1:30 on Fridays - so providing I'm clear of this cold I'm going to head down to Hillingdon and see what that means in terms of speed - I think I need this to translate to 27mph?
Nath, that guy today did 370w for 10mins to solo the win at 27mph. (Irrelevant side note, I did 26.7mph @ 307w over the same ten minutes- knew I should have tried to go with him 😆 )
Anyway, yeah- 27 should keep you away, just time it right. There's always an early bout of attack/counter attack so wait until all the players are knackered from that and then Va Va Vroom 🙂
Tell me when and I'll block the bunch for ya 🙂
Fifeandy- I didn't even check of it was a good one, just linked the first one. I just FFD to the racing 😆
Cheeky!
Haha
Also notice our mutual friends position here:
http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-2017/Circuit-Races/BCWT-17/BCWT-17-Men-Cat34/i-TsVGn4m/A
Miles away 😈
Yes lol! Still +20 places on me 😆
nathb - Member
CH you got me thinking about the race in a couple of weeks...[b]I've got 17 points this season, 23 until cat 2[/b] - which given that if the IWS isnt running only gives me a handful of races. Therefore I've decided that racing for points isn't for this year.
You need to get 40 points '[i]whilst holding a 3rd category licence[/i]', so the 12 points as a 4th cat don't count. However, points over 12 as a 4th cat do count, so you actually have 5 points as a 3rd cat, so need 35.
Good job he's not an accountant 😆
I forgot that bit 😆
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The winners race ^
He said he went solo for 6 laps so I don't think he was the skin suited guy who I saw go with 3 laps left. He must have been caught.
Intensity was 95% at 318w np so his ftp is still lower than yours Nath 😆
My last solo blast at Hillingdon which had a headwind down the main straight: https://www.strava.com/activities/989437111/segments/24257161811
I never maxed out though, 204bpm is my max, highest on that is 184bpm.
I think I may drive to Hillingdon for those 3 weekends...
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My race just as a comparison.
Start of lap 2 and the merest whiff of a bent elbow 😆
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Everyone takes this racing lark way too seriously 😆
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You're literally the only person with a smile on your face 😆
Closest thing to a win tonight. Limited numbers, so we ran as one race not two. Weather was awful with a gale blowing up the straight. Attacked on second lap, was chased down. Lots of counters, but nothing stuck. Riders were shelled, and eventually three got away, to be joined by a fourth. That left seven in the chasing bunch. Somebody is going home without points.
Nine to go and Gray slips off the front. Nobody chases and he's gone. Seven to go and I attack up the slope and am also away. Down into TT position and heart rate up. It's Wednesday TT night! Stayed away for sixth, but first V50 over the line. Very pleased.
Those aero gains in full:
Lowered bars by 1cm last night.
Skinsuit
Shoe covers (more for warmth)
Aero helmet
Aero gloves
Aero bike
Jet 6/9 TT wheels
Arms resting on top of bars for half laps (only when alone!)
Awesome!!! Top bombing 🙂 Well done!
I would have dq'd you 😆
Only joking, nice ride well done!
Ah that's why you are always chatting to the comms Nath- you're the snitch 😆
CH, bent elbows, nice!
Shame you pinned number on like a parachute to compensate though 😛
I know!!! Didn't realise until the race and then it was too late. It looked flat when I did it lol
Trying to clear the way for you CH 😆
Did a virtual TT race earlier, really struggled to get my legs spinning and HR up - I'm still recovering from a cold...in fact I couldn't breathe through my nose due to the flood of snot haha.
345w average for 25 mins
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At least I was consistent on the laps:
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CH! 😆
http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-2017/Circuit-Races/BCWT-17/BCWT-17-Men-Cat34/i-dzWNBhH/A
http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-2017/Circuit-Races/BCWT-17/BCWT-17-Men-Cat34/i-DjpfpDj/A
http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-2017/Circuit-Races/BCWT-17/BCWT-17-Men-Cat34/i-7sJvhHc/A
Not sure about the first two 😆
The last one's ok- just before I bridged across at the start of the penultimate lap I guess?
Edit- Actually not sure.
This IS when I did those two guys through Brian's on the penultimate lap, hopefully proving I don't make all this shit up 😆
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Your card must be marked crosshair as in that second photo there are a few riders behind you copying the locked arms, as always you are a leader not a follower.
think it's going to be quicker to get my ftp to 400w than it is to get myself riding aerodynamically 😆
I'm off to Hillingdon tomorrow to do some testing 🙂
Must commute as slow as possible to not skew the results too much!!!!!
Oooo. Exciting stuff. What's your target Watts, speed and or time??
TT effort around Hillingdon done. It was rather windy!!
I tried to replicate the "kick" at the beginning of an attack to break from the bunch @820W fading slowly - that should have hopefully got me a little bit of a gap to work with.
Stats wise:
..............Avg.........Max
Speed.........25.0mi/h....28.9mi/h
Heart Rate....174bpm......181bpm
Cadence.......94..........109
Power.........319W........820W
Calories......535
Elapsed Time..25:06
Distance......10.4 miles
https://www.strava.com/activities/1117006069/segments/27515579545
Now the excuses;
- I had commuted to and from work and stupidly can't help myself sprinting (partly because I was running late in the morning 😆 ) But maybe that's a good simulation?
- I was carrying around 3kg of extra weight (tools and water etc)
- I'd also commuted to the track
- No sugar was consumed
Basically I think that if I turned up a little fresher, sugared up and without carrying the excess weight I may be able to squeeze an extra 1mph/20w more over the 25 mins??
I think that's a great effort.
Has it helped clarify your tactics? You won't ride off the front solo at that speed after all...
I think something similar to your old tactics will do the job anyway. 30mins asleep at the back, move up in the next lull then attack with a few laps to go.
Not sure yet, I'll see what the conditions and pack are like... Still want to have another go at a solo break away this year 😆
Perhaps with 7/8 laps to go I'll try it....
Happy to commit / ruin my points chances that's for sure.
Driving myself potty thinking about Tuesday!! Jesper is coming, as are a couple of TFC guys so there's pressure there to beat them 😀
Then there's the whole point thing. My plan for October calls for way more TSS than sitting in for the last 700m is going to give me- but that's unlikely to help me finish strong and try and snatch my first point.
I'm feeling pretty good lately- last Tuesday was epic and I did a 5min power PB yesterday (tearing up the local charity fun ride 😆 ) so I just want to try SOMETHING.
One guy did attack the hill last time but didn't get very far. I'm wondering whether just dieseling it off the front up the hill for a few laps in a row- keeping the pace a bit higher, might help thin the finish out a little as way too many people were super fresh last time!!
It's a tough choice. If it comes down to the usual, then I want to have all my legs for it. But think of the glory of bucking the trend 😀
Using a race for training only works for some aspects of training.
Do you want training stress or points more?
Another Sunday, another poor write up from me...!
Emergency services RR today, course around cheddington, 12*4.1 mile laps.
Somewhere around the 3rd lap I found myself in a small group going off the back of the main group. It was a bit annoying as the same people who I kept coming last kept pushing back up then causing the split..but that comes back to my lack of racecraft I guess, as I should be shutting them down.
Our group grew and got smaller every so often but averaged around 7, with people doing various amounts of work...
The start/finish line was at the top of a punchy climb, think I read 8% somewhere. I kept pulling away from the group on the climb and sitting up at the top to rejoin, then pulling off sometimes on a flat straight. After a few laps of this and after the main bunch lapping us I went, a little too late to get in touch with them and unlap myself. I dropped the rest of my second group, felt like a bit of a dick doing it, didn't have anything to lose though...! Eventually caught a guy who dropped out of the main and worked together to the finish. No points, no prizes, but had fun...!
And there was a buffet at the end....I ate cake and cheese sandwiches and a fat coke, and am paying the price currently...!!!
Sounds fun! Loving the buffet too 😆
Playing on Tuesday?
@mtbtomo- Head says points. Heart says both 😆
I'm trying the track place in reading Thursday so will give Tues back to "the boss" to keep the peace....hopefully make next 2 though!!
Need to find some more Sunday races too....
Yeah, I know the dream....solo off the front, crush the opposition with pure wattage and get 10 points in the bag.... 😆
I think solo is pushing it. Happy to take 10th with 9 others though 😆
Everyone seems so obsessed with points that they are petrified of trying anything. It's like we're all just waiting for enough people to upgrade that it's 'our turn next'.
I think in Cat4 there should be transponders and 1/4 points given for 'winning' each lap or something equally creative. Or perhaps a 5 BC point Prime at a random race distance. Anything to get people actually racing.
Paying £16, driving an 80 mile round trip to have a one minute race after a 22mile warm up seems barmy sometimes.
I think I'll decide on the night. I'm hoping to head to Hillingdon to watch Nath ride off the front on Saturday so might let that one be the training race.
You make that sound like you're just watching!
Firstly you're racing right? Secondly I thought you're coming with?!
😀 Yes- I'm racing.
As much as I'd like to come with, you're not fat enough to tow me anywhere 😆
Nath, if you go early and ride at your threshold it's very unlikely there'll be enough riders left in the pack willing, or able, to do the work to drag you back.
To me, it appears fascinatingly in the balance! If there's a headwind on the straight, twenty five 26mph solo laps are going to be a tough ask!
A few 27mph ones seems much more realistic.
Are you gonna front-row and Zwift race it off the line Nath?
Yep, agree, crit racing is most often so negative, everyone willing to chase everything and if you've not got a massive sprint then you have to try something different.
I'm split between going for it from the beginning and if caught recover, or just sitting in until the last 20 mins.
I don't want to finish with juice in the tank...it seems a waste of 10 weeks training!
As for Zwift style starts, maybe lol or may do a fake one and pretend to be knackered from it so people dismiss me from the get go 😆
I wonder whether using your power to stay very near the front wouldn't be better- that keeps you out of the bunch. Then when a proper attack goes- follow until they fade and then attack them. That gets you probably half a lap off the front without killing yourself.
Ooo, how I'd love to have 5w/kg to play Crit's with 😆 (or 4 to be honest 🙂 )
Good morning race fans! Forecast is now dry for this evening which is a bit of a shame as I was hoping the rain would play into my hands a little.
I'm going out open minded but the one thing I really want to try is a solo lap. Even if I just tow the bunch around for one lap, I have no idea how fast (or slow) I can go there out in the wind.
So I'm thinking that lap3 I will just try and see. Then recover and either follow moves or sit in for the last blast.
Solo lap? You're mental sir.
As long as you can recover in time then go for it!
Are you going to try on Saturday too?
I'm just curious how it will compare to the rest of the race- it's only 6mins 😆 After that I'll be Zzzz (won't have much choice 😉 )
I think sitting in for 40mins and then fighting to stay nearer the front with a view to the last lap thereafter is my best bet on Saturday.
I’m not sure I know where to start tonight! It was just a bit of a mess really.
My finalised plan was to get a solo lap on the board on lap 3 and then sit in for points unless something else irresistible happened.
Jesper and Matthew were there so there was a good bit of banter before the race. My warm up was odd! My back brake was wedged on one side but wasn’t making a noise so it took me a while to realise why 250w was good for about 10mph!
That fixed, gel popped, it was time to go!
The first lap was a 21mph pootle! Ridiculously slow really! It was almost as if everyone knew it was going to be a sprint finish so was just going to cruise around.
Lap 2 was a little quicker but nothing special.
As we crested the hill and navigated the chicane, I found myself right alongside Jesper and Matt who were both aware of my ‘plan’ to do lap 3 solo. The start/finish line was approaching so I shouted at them to come along and wound on some power.
I didn’t plan on looking back for the whole lap- just head down and TT one out. Sticking tight to the edge of the bunch, I rode away with ease. Straightening out the corners, I swept through the top chicane on my chosen line and realised my power was a bit fruity! Luckily gravity could help so I kept the speed up but eased off the gas as much as possible.
Sadly, before I got half way down the hill, somebody attacked me, followed by another! Ah well, screw the solo lap! I went full gas and joined their wheel. Kudos to the guys in previous rounds that have gotten away and stayed away- there are precious few in the current bunch that can manage it that’s for sure! To top it all off, Autolap by position chose Lap 3 to miss the cue and so I didn’t get any nice data.
At a best guess, I did 26.5 for the half a lap until I was caught and it took around 360w.
Anyway, from here on in, the pace stayed high. Higher than usual that’s for sure.
Jesper rode a super smart race. He chose to sit in and not even come for a play with me and as I recovered at the back, he was in text-book top 1/3 and was pretty much every time I saw him!
So, at half way, there was no sign of any Cat2’s. And each lap I wondered when they would pass. Finally a lone rider came by but the bunch was late! In the end (and it’s all a blur!) they started passing with 3 to go. And the front of our bunch used them as a carrot.
With two to go, they were back alongside us and we were having a side by side race!
Now, here, I probably started panicking and perhaps threw my race away but I really can’t see a solution that would have yielded a better outcome. It seemed completely unavoidable now that we wouldn’t be contesting our finish in amongst the Cat2/3’s!
They were hiding in our bunch and drafting down the edge of us. And as we hit the bell lap and moves started flying from our guys, the moves were getting increasingly closer to their bunch! Despite the no-drafting rule, the sheer weight of numbers meant it was impossible not to really and our finial lap ended up being 28.5mph!!
My rule of thumb is to not worry about the downhill- just save your legs. Then wait as long as possible up the hill before launching your sprint after the chicane. But all that went totally out of the window as there were loads of strong looking Cat 4’s in amongst the Cat 3’s (not deliberately, just because the whole circuit was full).
Now, it suddenly seemed obvious to me that they weren’t coming back! IF they were out there alone, they would have drifted back but today they had still air! The race was literally riding away up the hill.
So I went, and went hard. I needed to be close to that move. I have no idea what position I was in right now but I felt like I had regained some ground.
The chicane is sketchy on the last lap every race, but today it was chocker block with the two races totally intertwined. Jesper had followed my wheel when I went and now came past on a cracking line.
Crap! He’s going to beat me! That was enough incentive for a HR PB if not a power one and I clawed him back and went as hard as I could. Again, I moved up the whole way on this final section and didn’t concede a single place but there were loads of Cat 4’s in front who had gone early with no fade.
The funniest thing though, was that Jesper thought we had another lap! He carried on at Max HR with the 2/3’s all by himself. He obviously mistook the Comm’s car beeping and waving and shouting at people to leave the circuit for a fan or something! So of course, his excuse is that he didn’t know it was the sprint finish!
Really, there is nothing to say other than Meh! I was beaten fair and square by guys who used the situation to their advantage better than I did. I was sure I would have had power PB’s up the hill and in the sprint but nowhere near.
The hard lap prior spent ensuring I didn’t get stuck behind the sprint had sapped my legs, yet if I hadn’t have been where I was my hunch is that I would have finished even further back.
So it just confirms what I suspected really- I’m where I’m supposed to be right now.
Nice write up CH.
Sounds like a confusing mess to the end of the race!
What are your tactics for Saturday?
Just spotted this: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/166250/Moose-eu-End-of-Summer-Crit
Interesting comparison with the winner on Strava Flyby. He started the last lap in front of me, then I panicked and went too hard moving up and was quite a way in front of him. He just plodded on behind right until the base of the hill where he just attacked hard and rode right through everyone. He wasn't in the initial move that spurred me to follow. His average for the race was 210w but he was 2 seconds faster than my PB (not today) in the final 300m sprint @660 odd watts average.
Zzzz-->sprint for the win after all 😆
Nath- depends on the field I guess. If it's huge then I may try and trend in the top ten or fifteen to avoid crashes but if it's reasonable I'm going to sit in I think. I just need to get my riding right between now and Saturday. Err on the side of recovery I think- I wasn't overly pleased with tonight.
IMO this statement "I’m where I’m supposed to be right now" needs to be taken in the context of the style of rider you want to be.
If each week you perfected "ZZzzz + Sprint" results might differ.
But you might have less fun ... and not fancy racing as much?
Possibly Joe- but I don't believe I was strong enough to match the winners final effort regardless.
My biggest error was misreading the situation I think. The confusion didn't have the impact on our race that I expected, although many of the guys who did get away early made up the top ten or so.
My power was only 233/279 so not mega crazy and tame compared to some who finished well in front.
Make no mistake- I wanted points tonight and my little play for a lap shouldn't have done enough to dent my chances.
So if it was mental focus that cost me the race- then that's just as big a limiter to points as power.
CH, as usual, nice write up.
I got extended from a 1600 finish to somewhere after 2300 at work so would have been super happy to be in a zzz---> sprint finish...as it was no one in my house got their exercise fix..!
Where are you racing Saturday mate? I guess I have missed it in the above posts...!
Hillingdon 3/4's mate. Fancy a trip out?
Come join Leigh 🙂
❓ Online booking has already closed! Hope they're not full.
I've emailed the organiser.
I hope they're not full - in fact half numbers would be perfect! 😆
Night shifts Friday and Saturday says no...! Thanks though. Will make what I can upcoming though...!
It's for the next 3 Saturdays 🙂
Legs are feeling tired from last nights Zwift race 😆
I've missed the entry for Saturday 🙁 Chris Denman replied saying no room for entries on the day with not even a mention of a waiting list or how worthwhile it would be turning up!
Ah well- intervals it is for me!
Eurgh that means 80 people then, which is 35 too many imo.
Don't worry about what you can't control. There will be enough moves going off of the front that you should be able to stay clear of 70 of them and if not just go by yourself.
Yay! Looks like I can race tomorrow after all.
It's not so much an issue for circuit racing but for those of you that road race (particularly as part of a race series) is there any eligibility criteria for entry beyond the BC categories?
I'm getting a bit annoyed at marshalling or driving in a race convoy and in effect allowing others that dont do anything to race. At least a quarter of the riders im seeing at races are members of teams or clubs that don't put on a race themselves. Fair enough not all clubs are big enough (the requirements for road racing are pretty huge - 2 lead cars, 2 commissaire cars, service car, first aid car, broom wagon. Then NEG support, marshals are every junction etc) but i think if that is the case they ought to volunteer their time (or have someone stand in for them) and help out another club that puts on a race. No helping out then no start. Does anyones race series have this as a rule that is enforced?
The ORRL has First dibs on spaces (up to 10 per team) for each member club that puts on a race...if that's what you mean?
It's all down to the organisers.
League membership, geography, individual & team successes, personal vendettas...
Well that's the easiest write up for a while 😀
A combination of feeling like absolute rubbish and the high pace of the race meant I got spat out the back after 30 minutes 😆
It was 26.5 but we did two or three laps at 28 and I just didn't haven't the legs for that today so out I went.
Nath is sat with Johnny asleep at the moment 😆
My HR was crazy high in warm up so I did wonder If I was up to it.
Was going to rejoin but need to think about Tuesday now.
Ah well, at least I can see how Nath gets on.
Lol!! Out of me, Nath, Johnny and Pete, none of us finished!!
Nath had a puncture and Johnny and Pete narrowly missed a big last lap crash.
Made me glad I was sat on the bench watching to be honest!!
There are some right retards racing there at the moment that's for sure.
Well that was one of the least enjoyable write ups yet Crosshair!
Poor Nathb, after all that training i bet he was raring to go. How far in to the race was his puncture?
About 4 to go I think. Stupid thing is, I saw him coasting in and if I didn't run SPD's, I could have bunged him my bike and I'm sure he would have got back on....
And snapped my frame in the crash perhaps 😆
I've been running on adrenaline at work this week fighting the weather and organising our summer BBQ so I wasn't really listening to my body. Should have saved myself the drive but never mind. Need to concentrate on feeling better for Tuesday now.
And yes- it was a de ja vu moment as Nath was on the front the lap I got dropped 😆