[Closed] So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

CH for hills you want Redbridge. Aka Hog Hill. Youngsters go up the hill.

If anyone does race at Redbridge I'll come along and watch as it's very close to home for me and I'm in the club that's based out of the circuit.

I ride there occasionally but usually just the bottom circuit as the hill is brutal! First couple of laps I'm in the big ring up it give it a few more laps and I'm down to walking pace in my lowest gear!

The bunch is hilarious at Thruxton. They all follow an exaggerated racing line, clipping the Apex from a wide entry. Yet actually, you could ride pretty much flat out and hold the inside line and get around fine. This is discouraged by the fact that you will get chopped by everybody else.

Can all seem a bit random at first at Thruxton, but it's quite a wide and exposed circuit and the line is often dictated by the usually strong winds.

I won’t quite say it was boring as ripping around a racetrack at Cat 4 industry spec 25mph is fun regardless but nothing happened. Some very poor break attempts were made but there were the most teams I have ever seen out so it didn’t take much to shut everything down.

I'm told this is very common for Thruxton, especially in the lower cats.

Well done CH. Sounds like a bit more racecraft could see you pick up some points at Thruxton. Seems you can sit in the pack a bit more comfortably. You just need to time your effort.

I ride there occasionally but usually just the bottom circuit as the hill is brutal! First couple of laps I'm in the big ring up it give it a few more laps and I'm down to walking pace in my lowest gear!

The "Hog with the occasional hill" series that's been running recently could be right up your street.

MrBlobby- I can totally see why they do it but it's more the fact that nobody holds a wide line if you are fairly inside of them well before the corner 😀
But still, it was a fun game trying to keep my HR low. Managed to get as low as 130 one lap 😆

Thanks Matts! I do need to be more patient but it's a balance between not getting stuck either.
I suppose I also proved why polarisation is important- most of last weeks hours were high intensity so my top end was dragged down by fatigue.

Hopefully going up north soon, so hopefully my friend can fit me in for a bike fit - something I reallllllllly need.

My position has moved somehow. I noticed today that my legs can be extended further and I'm putting a lot of weight on my wrists. I also want to go lower at the front - I feel my back can now take it (rowing injury).

If I can't go up anytime soon I'm going to have a look locally for a fitting...any recommendations?

Nath, not that local to you but I'd likely go see [url= http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk/ ]this guy[/url].

I've had a fitting with Scherrit (mrblobby's link above). I liked him. Not cheap, but it took 6 hours or so! Subsequently had a new bike consultation with him after my crash.

I've been to Royce @ velocity for a saddle fit. He tweaked my bit fit while I was there.

http://velocitysportscycling.com/bike-fit/

He tweaked my bit fit

Another previous customer of Scherrit here.

I don't recall [i]he[/i] did any bit tweaking, but it was quite a long time ago. 😯

So I had my first crit (Corley summer series at Milton Keynes bowl)since the start of March , I have not trained since and just been riding as and when I can which has been less than I would like as have a house to finish renovating before baby arives in June.

I nearly pulled the plug on this race as I thought my form would have dropped too much. As it happened it went better than expected, sat in the bunch for most of the race and then sprinted up the little climb into about 13th, I think if I had used up a bit more energy to pass a few people in the last couple of laps I could have got in the points, it was not an easy course to move up the field though. Avereaged 25mph and got a new max heart rate of 200bpm, happy with that.

Lol, untrained and 25! Some people are just bloody fast !
Jealous

Thanks for the recommendations for the tweaking guys 😆

Nice one Tom! You'll know what to do for next time & some points!

You'll get there weeksy, you're certainly on course!!

Well still been riding but just no structure/plan maybe was just fresher and more rested

What's structure? 😆

Weeksy- sorry to be harsh but we are built like houses. Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked. Ignore the pros- think of all the quick guys you know. They are either short or very skinny or both right?
I'm gonna sound like our learned friend from the other forum with this one but- I actually only did use 217w (2.5w/kg) to do 25mph in the bunch at Thruxton the other day so 'some people are just bloody efficient' would be a better phrase perhaps 😉 I'm sure Tomvet would love some of your raw Watts 😉

Well done though Tomvet! Sounds like a fun race and a great performance! Hopefully race together again this year? Do Outdoor traders do an Autumn series? What's MK like?

Nath- you seem to have a highly ordered daily structure of Zwift racing 😆

I was consenting hard on doing as little as possible for as long as I could. Would love a power meter to quantify what I am doing but that's a pipe dream at the moment.

Weeksy- sorry to be harsh but we are built like houses. Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked

Oh don't get me wrong, i totally get why i'm slow, if i were 20kg less i think i'd even hold on longer than 3 laps at Abingdon (assuming i retained my power). I just find it weird sometimes how some people can train a chunk less that others but still be crazy quick. My old neighbour was brilliant at it.. he'd have 2 months off the bike and still be a beast when he came out.

CH am I included in your analysis? I wouldn't put me as short or skinny 😆

Zwift racing is hardly a structured plan compared with your z2/3 tempo sprints backwards hillly semi anaerobic intervals..

LOL my legs weigh more than you do Nath !

Nath- my right thigh is bigger than your waist 😆

Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked.

Crosshair, just look at our stats from the NRC 50 mile training loop we did on Sunday. No big hills so weight not much of an issue. Me avg 216 watts, you avg 257 watts. And I think I spent quite a bit more time on the front than you did 😉

If I was you I'd just nudge my position to be a little longer and lower, nothing dramatic, just a few millimeters every few weeks. Over time it will make a big difference.

Crosshair, just look at our stats from the NRC 50 mile training loop we did on Sunday. Me avg 216 watts, you avg 256 watts. And I think I spent quite a bit more time on the front than you did

If I was you I'd just nudge my position to be a little longer and lower, nothing dramatic, just a few millimeters every few weeks. Over time it will make a big difference.

Bending his elbows would be a good start.
Every single photo from races they are fully locked out to make the biggest air brake possible 😛

Bending his elbows would be a good start.

😀

Can't say I'm much better to be honest...

Or am I Mrblobby? You're probably the person I've raced side by side with the most on here 😆

(Sitting the in the bunch (CH) and at the back chatting (TiRed) are probably not the best examples of my aeroness lol)

Or am I Mrblobby? You're probably the person I've raced side by side with the most on here

Well it was only the once and some time ago! I don't recall thinking your position on the bike was poor so it was probably pretty good 🙂

I'll take that 😆

I must join one of these Sunday runs with you guys, sound fun.

MrB, I thought I rode quite aero on Sunday- I had to when you were drilling it down the A4 😆

The CX bike is set up quite relaxed compared to the Race bike. CX drops are the same height as the race bike hoods.
I was only commenting elsewhere how much I thought my position had improved compared to my early races. I can feel a lot less weight through my hands in all positions now.
I know you were on your commuter-a-like mudguarded up stealth machine but I wish I'd taken my race bike- I may have kept contact up that 10min climb then. My Scott with lights, pouches, pump etc is close to 12kg 😮

I must join one of these Sunday runs with you guys, sound fun.

It's still a disorganised social ride and not really a proper fast chain gang. A couple of nearby clubs have evening rides that are proper race training rides that you'll likely enjoy more (though most are unofficial affairs.) I'd like to try and get a local one going but have too much going on to be able to commit to a specific evening.

I know you were on your commuter-a-like mudguarded up stealth machine

🙂 I'd even had to dig out my very un-aero winter kit for that morning!

I may have kept contact up that 10min climb then

There was a climb? 😉

Btw, anything going on at Hillingdon this weekend? Need some race miles.

Stop now- what little bit of confidence I had is ebbing away 😆
There's some fast guys on that ride so I've been pleased to keep up :p

I'm not racing this weekend but may do the club run.....

Big Events are at Hogs Hill if you want to ride some more non-hills 😀

Ugh be about 5 hours driving, don't have the time.

Annoying lack of racing at the moment. Had to pull out of last weekend's 50 due to injury. Last night's was cancelled due to thunderstorm. Saturday's planned is cancelled due to roadworks. And next Saturday's planned race has been cancelled too 😡

First RR for me today, round 2 of the Oxfordshire league. 4 and a bit laps for some, 1 for me!
I floated around the back as I figured most others would know what they were doing. Then after a quick speed up over a rise into a sharp descent the pack started to split a bit, a few wobbles/ punctures in front spread the back out a bit more, then I was left a little back with 3 or 4 others. We got about 30m off the back then they accelerated around a bend and didn't see the pack again! I powered on for a minute or 2 in a wasted effort then was by myself...caught a couple of guys limping back with punctures and that was my day...
Despite only making around 20% of the race, I quite enjoyed it...

Oh, forgot to ask, any top tips for 2 weeks to make improvements??
I guess I can't train for being comfortable in the bunch, I'd settle for being 10kg lighter though...

Get out on some group rides? 2 weeks isn't long to make too much fitness headway but sitting on a wheel for a few hours a week will help you feel more comfortable on race day I reckon...

Assuming you are a 4th cat, I'd ride a couple of circuit races. This will improve your bunch riding and fitness. Tuesday evenings at Hillingdon are good for this because the circuit has no "crit corners" to break up the bunch.

First rule of road racing is DONT SIT AT THE BACK! Try and stay top third. Easier said than done, I know. Road race circuits will have three or four left hand corners, some of which require slowing to take safely. The riders on the front have a better line choice and don't need to slow so much. The riders at the back must brake going in and must accelerate harder on exit. This is a recipe for getting tired and getting dropped. Ask me how I know 😉

If there is a climb, and I presume you are no climber, try and work your way up nearer the front before the climb, and expect to be passed during the climb. All you need to do is hang on once at the top.

Set some realistic objectives: finishing in the group is no mean feat and my objective for 2/3 road races. Road races expose weaknesses much more easily than circuit races on fast circuits (like Hillingdon and Abingdon). Good luck!

TiRed, as usual, thanks for the advice. I missed the Abingdon winter series, which would have been invaluable, getting in an hour or so of TTT practice a week, always room for another I guess! Might just get back on trainerroad next week too...

[img] [/img]

Most aero photo yet I reckon 😆

Nicely following a wheel there CH 😉

Just getting back on after lapping the field right CH? 😆

What was it that TiRed had in bold a couple of posts up ??

Nathing like a pro there CH!

Lol! Thruxton is different. The bunch is twice or three times as wide as Hillingdon so the draft is huge.

I used about 50w less than usual so it's definitely the place for Nathing 😆

Random BC question....my events page always comes up with an error so I can't see what upcoming events I have entered. Does this happen to anyone else or just me...?
Thanks!

I find the page a bit hit and miss too. Some of it is surprisingly functional then other bits are rubbish.

I tend to click the favourite 'star' next to each event I've entered to turn it gold. Then it will appear on 'My Calendar'.

Cheers crosshair, will give that a try!

And you thought there was nothing left to write about another dull 23 mile sprint out at Thruxton right? 😆 Ah well, here goes..

It’s fair to say I was cooked coming into today’s race. I had an awful club run on Sunday where the lack of stocky wheels to follow and general head-windery combined with an awfully noisy drivetrain to sap my watts at every turn.

I had a gang of volunteers at work today so wanted to get lots done but I chose the easier more technical jobs to try and stay fresh for this evening. At least that’s my justification for letting a couple of 70 year olds loose with the sledge hammer whilst I twiddled electric fence wire together purposefully!

I got home at 15:00 to sort out the dogs etc and promptly fell fast asleep on the sofa. I woke up to a noisy excited 4-year-old leaping all over me and then suddenly realised I was heading towards being late!

Feeling groggier than ever, I actually made it there just 10minutes later than usual and still way too early.
The plan for this evening was clear in my mind. Push as gently as possible on the pedals for 50 minutes then SPRINT!!

I didn’t even bother with much of a warm up. A quick three miles was enough to check my new carbon saddle (courtesy of the frame supplier to make up for excess customs charges) didn’t slice off anything important down below. The other was in the stacker box just in case but I quite like the new one.

I ditched my Red Bull from my pre-race load and just had a Lucozade sport an hour before and a Galaxy Caramel to try and kick start some life.
A caffeine gel on the line and we were ready to race! 

Lap one was suitably sedate but two was a bit fruitier. There were half a dozen break attempts today but everything was left to hang about 100m off of the front and it would soon come back together.

Nathing the edges and ebbing flowing between mid-pack and the very back, I was starting to wake up and my legs felt ok! I decided to ignore everything else and just focus on forward vision tonight. Keeping my eyes well up and responding to what the guy 10 wheels in front were doing meant I had to accelerate or brake very little.

The race absolutely flew by! It went so quickly, before I knew it, we were being lapped by the big boys. But then, like when the 4’s lap the ladies at the IWS at Hillingdon, they just seemed to stop! So we were stuck on the wheel of the motorbike for pretty much two laps.

On the 7thlap, as we came up the hill and past the finishing straight, I pushed a bit harder, took a bit of wind and drifted forwards.
And there was a gap! Probably the biggest gap of the race! Ten guys had floated off of the front behind the motorbike in blissful ignorance and the bunch was actually in danger of sprinting out for no points!

For a very brief moment, my by now buzzing brain thought about sprinting across and shouting GOGOGO! to the accidental break! We were told ten laps so I assumed we had three left so discretion was the better part of valour. As it was, they knocked off a lap in the dulling light and there were in fact only 1 ¾ laps left at that point. Would it have worked? I don’t know but it would have been more fun!!

Anyway, still nobody was closing it and a few guys worrying about their plan (the same one we all had of course) started shouting. But nothing happened.
So I upped the watts and bridged across and whilst I towed everyone with me, I did get a few pats and ‘thanks’ at the end so it was noticed.

So… back together and there’s the bell! I took some wind and moved up down the start finish straight. I could have taken my momentum almost to the front but I consciously thought “No, that’ll do Pig, that’ll do!” and rolled in to mid pack. Now- recover!!

As we went through the fast sweeping corners before the downhill, shouting erupted from the apex and bikes veered wildly. Because I was looking so far ahead, my instinct was to steer away from what looked like an inevitable crash and I bumped into an Outdoor Traders guy to my left. Both on the drops, it was arm to arm and I instantly apologised- should know better than that!! He was cool though and said not to worry- he had thought the exact same thing was about to happen.

Right, into the final downhill where I wasted watts last week and I was hyper aware. Aware enough to have an epiphany in fact! As one of the teams shouted “UPUPUPUPUPUP!!!!” on the front and the whole pack surged for the line, I realised I was suddenly full of adrenaline! So my RPE had in fact plummeted from say 8 to like 4. I felt like I was floating but a quick look down and I realised I was pushing 460w! Even more than last weeks failed attempt.

So I soft pedalled. Not literally of course, but relative to what I was doing. And the bunch didn’t vanish away from me. We were heading up the hill now and I’d noticed that earlier it was taking a serious effort to go up regardless- let alone on the final lap. Not yet! Not yet! Not yet!

Then some lunatic came flying past in a kind of aero sprint, head down and arse up and nearly ran into the back of someone. He actually regrouped and did the same again somehow and as we rounded the second part of the chicane, he came over the treacherous looking chevrons and barrelled straight in front of me and nearly wiped out the two guys in front.

That pretty much spoilt my finish as my over-active imagination couldn’t see a good ending.   Miraculously, they hadn’t crashed and I shook myself back into action with a 900-odd watt punt and made up a few places.

So in conclusion- plan was pretty much executed to perfection but I rolled the dice on the chicane and was slightly out of luck.
For Weeksy’s benefit- my friend Ben from NRC rode a very smart race again. He stayed in the front 10 all the time and finished either 10th or 11th I reckon. Should I have marked him? Not sure- will look at his power and decide….

Hmmm. I probably should have sat on Ben's wheel all race. I'm not sure what MrB thinks but I reckon we are within a kg or two of each other and I averaged 236/274 and he averaged 242/271 so very very similar despite our different positioning.

His HR was higher at 165 to my 157 and our Max's were both 190.

Next week's game plan 😀

Nice one CH. And top write-up - I felt I was living that. 8)

Nice write up CH as always.

Sounds like a good race, next weeks dice roll could be it!?

Well I'm tempted to just follow Ben now of course! The thing is, it's such a close match in terms of ability, there are very few options available to any of us.

I have literally zero leverage on the race. I cannot ride fast enough solo to even help in a break and my 3-4 minute power isn't strong enough to go early down the hill.
So I just have to sit in and hope a line opens up in front of me.

I averaged 26mph for the final minute instead of 24, so despite the hold up, I was a lot stronger in the finale. Just need to keep trying I guess.

A wonderful week of R+R awaits so hopefully I'll be extra fresh next week too....

So, according to his Strava- Ben got a well deserved point. But I was literally 1 second behind 😮

And I lost that second on the chicane where I said 🙁

Hopefully this link works... https://www.strava.com/segments/12106042/compare/MjQyNzI5MzE0MTIsMjQyNzYyNjE1NDA=

And I was going faster than him by the end so who knows!!! That was soooooo close!!

Been faffing around with my seat height, feels better now and so far feel able to stick a little bit more power down...

Excuse the shoulder marker (and tan lines), shifted when I sat on the bike haha

To me. you look like you're right on the edge of losing control of your knee at the bottom of the downstroke. But see how you get on and beware of any pain.

Any tips for my first road race, doing the Banbury star race, 45 miles with cats 3's and 4's, route takes in a half mile climb averaging 10% so I think the whole race tends to blow up into groups though I imagine I am likely to be TT'ing my way round at the back. How does it work with junctions and cars ect and can I get a bottle passed to me from the road side?

I managed an hour season yesterday with no knee pain. Tonight I am racing in a zwift competition (hilly route) so I guess that's the test!!

I did manage 150rpm, ERG mode on Zwift was a pain so I had to really get the legs spinning to get up to the specified power: https://www.strava.com/activities/992113464

Tom, never done a real road race but from the crits I'd try and stay top 1/3 and hide from any wind.

Will do, but there's no hiding on the hill when the gradient pitches up to 15% in places

Well so much for my newfound situational awareness 😆

Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out 😮

Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out

It's probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4 while the people who fancy their chances lurk at the back where it's almost impossible to spot someone sneaking off the front.

It's probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4

You'd have suck with him easy MrB- he was only averaging 25.4mph 😆

Will do, but there's no hiding on the hill when the gradient pitches up to 15% in places

tomvet, first road race?
Just go and enjoy it. Work out which wheels you trust to follow and which wheels you don't... then just buzz of the speed and adrenaline until you finish or you've had enough.
Check out the race briefing for rules on handing up bottles, but at 45 miles you're best off just carrying 2 from the outset, should be plenty. Taking bottles from a stationary person is more difficult than you think!
But back to my opening point... go and have fun!

Good news!

I've just done a crazy competition race on Zwift and so far no knee pain and generally felt a lot more comfortable!

In fact I've just got a new FTP of 316W (4.51w/kg) up from 315W haha.
30 min = 318w
20 min = 332w
15 min = 334w
10 min = 345w

Good luck Tom. You won't need more than two bottles. I assume that here is neutral service too, but I always take a tube and co2. For the hill, try and get near the front if you aren't a climber. Expect to drop back, and hold on at the top. Repeat.

The circuit will only have left hand turns. If you have accredited marshals then the road is closed. Don't go too far over onto the other side of the road, a car may be waiting! You may also have National Escort Group moto riders. These guys are super and will ride ahead to close down hazards and junctions for you.

Don't overtake the lead car. Don't drop litter. Don't go over a solid white line. All three will DQ you. Move up through the bunch if you can, not on the wrong side of the road. Stay out of the gutter.

I'm probably late to the party with this...

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But it's a pretty useful tool for comparing where you are verses others when you've got a power meter. >4.5 w/kg is solid and more than enough to cut it at Cat2 if you're 'race craft' is even half there.

Yeah I've seen that before.

I'm going to be working on Z2 and 5s-4min power now I think the base is semi-okay.

>4.5 w/kg is solid and more than enough to cut it at Cat2 if you're 'race craft' is even half there.

FWIW I think things like those numbers kind of get you a seat at the table. Getting a result is far more down to race craft, experience, ability to recover from efforts, knowing how best to use what you've got to get a result. Oh and a good sprint! You can get results with a lot less.

And also FWIW, for most UK racing (and certainly crits) I think outright watts (or W/CdA) is of more relevance than w/kg. You might be 4.5 w/kg but if you're 60kg there's no way you're riding away from even a cat 4 pack on a flat circuit.

I'm probably late to the party with this...

You might be 4.5 w/kg but if you're 60kg there's no way you're riding away from even a cat 4 pack.

Very true and agree with fifeandy.

My only experience is from a year of racing last year going from Cat4 to Cat2... my power numbers sit in the Cat2 banding for all but 1 min power.

Seconded. I'm with fifeandy - 67 kg, 4.5 W/kg, not a lot more for shorter efforts! By the time you are scoring points in a 70-rider Cat 4 race at Hillingdon, you'll have no trouble staying in an E123 race.

The US system has Cat 5 for beginners, with Coach-sign off after 10 races. I like this idea; show you can race safely rather than score 12 points. It used to be 10, but now you must race at least twice to be a third cat.

All of which should hopefully make my 3.3w/kg point all the sweeter when I finally get it 🙂

By the time you are scoring points in a 70-rider Cat 4 race at Hillingdon, you'll have no trouble staying in an E123 race

Unless it's a Nat B 😀

There is a difference between "staying with" and racing 😀 I think Hillingdon GP is the only Nat B on that circuit - 80 laps.

Ahhh sorry, I didn't realise you were just talking E123 at Hillingdon!

Tuseday's Thruxton results are out now for anyone that raced there.

My only experience is from a year of racing last year going from Cat4 to Cat2... my power numbers sit in the Cat2 banding for all but 1 min power.

Good work there. I know some strong riders who've taken a long time to go from 3 to 2. Think if you really get stuck in, race a lot, and pick your races (i.e. 3's only or 3/4's for points) then it's certainly doable if you have the right attributes. Nathb could go from 4 to 2 this year if he did this.

I basically just raced a local road league with a couple of crits chucked in to make up the numbers.

My advantage over others was a background of racing 70.3 triathlons and the associated endurance that comes with it. No point in working on your 5 sec power if you can't maintain your FTP over a 25m TT, in my opinion.

if you can't maintain your FTP over a 25m TT, in my opinion.

Your FTP [b]is[/b] what you can maintain over a 25m TT 🙂

Yes, but how many people actually derive it like that... most riders I know have needed a fair bit of training to realise the FTP they achieve in a 20 min test over a full hour, and let's be honest... everyone quotes the factored 20 min test number.

Well yes, said before on this forum that it is a bit flawed and that everyone's power curve is different. So basing your FTP on some percentage of a shorter duration max, unless the percentage has been specifically determined for you, is a bit flawed. And then deriving your shorter duration effort levels as generic percentages of that value (like most workouts in TR or Zwift do) is a bit silly. For example, taking Cavendish and Froome and suggesting that their 1 minute interval training efforts should be based on the same percentage of their 60 MP would clearly be ridiculous.

2000 🙂