[Closed] So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

TiRed races on a propel.

Only caveat is don't race on what you can't afford to replace, crashes happen a lot!

[url= ]STW Team Issue Bike (well frame really)[/url]

Interesting bit of info from Garmin. Weirdly the HR data etc didn't export correctly.

I managed just under 21mph for the race even though a massive chunk of that was on my own ! Very happy with that
Average HR for the 'race' part where i was in/around the bunch was 175bpm..... On my own it was 173bpm
Maximum speed was 29.8mph, the section where i got spat out we were averaging 26mph for 3 mins or so.

As a cat 4 I got 17 points.

Does that mean to reach Cat 2 (40 points) I need to get 40 points as cat 3 or 23 points more?

Idea is that any "easier" points you got in 4th cat races are erased and you have get the new points in 3rd cat races where it is a bit harder 🙂

So some racers that get to 2nd cat then struggle to get any points (because they are riding in 2nd cat or above races) rather than the 30 they need to keep their license and they go back down to 3rd the next year.

I don't think you can ever go back down to 4ths!

I have been 2nd for a few years but had a crash last year (not in a race) and didn't do any races at all so will be down to 3rd 🙄

Need to do some saddle adjustment

Can I politely suggest you get yourself bog standard KMC chain instead of the bling and spend the rest on a bike fitting? It was the best £50* I ever spend on bike products.

*North of England prices (Paul Hewitt)

Can I politely suggest you get yourself bog standard KMC chain instead of the bling and spend the rest on a bike fitting? It was the best £50* I ever spend on bike products.

*North of England prices (Paul Hewitt)

You can Quadruple that down here !

I've got a bike fitting planned for when I go up north, friend works there.

This saddle adjustment is just slightly pointing the saddle down a tiny bit so I don't lose the feeling in a particular area. 😳

I did a zwift race yesterday and it's worked so no further adjustments. 🙂

You can Quadruple that down here !

Ha. I know. It was a few years back too. But you do get the data chiselled into a tablet of stone and all measurements in feet and inches of course.

Give you all a laugh on a Monday

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I can't be accused of not trying then 🙂

Nice one weeksy!

Photo finish:

I can't be accused of not trying then

Sure I can, not even on the drops = must be having a relaxing cruise round. 😛

@weeksy - you going to join us for another one? Hillingdon is a nice course, must be added to your to do list now you're licenced up 🙂

No sir. Maybe in a year if all goes well. But at the moment its just 2-3 laps and I'm out of there. Part of me is mildly curious about whether if I was in the pack longer I could hold it, similar to the progression that CH has made, but I know he's quicker than me from our rides, so I'm still not there later on.

My main focus now is the White Roads sportive on 9th July and a new potential plan which is forming into an SDW double the weekend after of which day 1 is BHF ride, then unsupported on way back the day after. I'm hoping the longer hours of training that will now be happening will help on the weight as well as the cardio. 95-96kg is just too damn heavy to play with you racers.

Racers come in all different shapes and sizes 😉

I think it's easier to hold on at Hillingdon, definitely worth a go when you're feeling up to it. Happy to do some domestique work too 🙂

This is my new favourite picture of my cycling career so far, I gone aero and everythink!

[img] [/img]

I see you in the background too weeksy!

Many congratulations MrBlobby!!! 2 points 🙂

Racers come in all different shapes and sizes

Of course i get that, but in life there are optimal settings for most things, i personally feel that 95kg isn't the optimal for racing, sure, some guys could and probably do hang in and do well at that weight, but they're clearly fitter and stronger than me.
With all the best intentions in the world, i'm not convinced even you and Blobby could super domestique me back into the pack once i've peaked. Even if you could, hanging in still would be clearly open to debate.

I'll be back... one day... but it won't be 2017 unless i'm very very lucky.

Here's a bit of a write up from my race in Bath this weekend.

Aims for this week were trying to position myself better through out the race and to achieve a top ten finish. I have a tendency to be a bit lazy and hang back as far as possible. It kind of works in Abingdon as there's a lot less chance of the bunch splitting, but on the tight track at Bath I knew I needed to be a bit smarter. For the first few laps I managed to stick near the front, sticking to wheels of riders I know are strong. I was feeling good and pretty confident. Maybe 10-15 minutes into the race I dropped back to about 30th. I knew I needed to move up, but just at the wrong time a lad about 10 places in front of me went down on one of the hairpins. The bunch behind slowed to not crash into him. I think the riders in front must have kicked on as soon as they heard him go down. As I went around the fallen rider I look up and see the bunch strung out and the chase was on. The bunch split into 3, 8 riders up front, about 5 in the second group, 4 or 5 in the third group and a load out the back. We managed to close the gap to the second group, it took a big dig from me on the front to close the last 5 seconds but we made contact and I decided to sit on for a few minutes while I recover. At this point the gap to the front group as about 20 seconds. We tried to organise ourselves into a chain gang to chase but the group wasn't working well. Eventually I realised we weren't going to catch the front group and started prepping for the final sprint to contest 9 and 10. A couple of lads attacked on the final lap which put the whole group into the red, coming around the last corner I was about 5th in the group and couple only come around 1 or two guys. I ended up about 11th or 12th, so just short of the points (again)! But I'm feeling my race craft is improving and I know the points will start to come. Onwards to the University of Birmingham one day stage race on Saturday, really looking forward to it.

that sounds like an exciting race though 🙂

Well done Rawka! Great to come away feeling positive too. Good luck on Saturday!

Sorry MrBlobby! I hadn't realised how the points work (never needed to know 😆 ) so just the one point.
Still- 9th is top bombing!!

Sounds good @rawka - nearly there!!

Well done on the point MrBlobby 🙂

SO what's next then Nath ?

Going to take a temporary break from racing to sort out life things which I've been putting off.

Lots of races coming up at Hillingdon, going to try do the ones in bold:

West Drayton Specialized Crit Series - Event 1 Sat 18/03/17 34 miles
[b]West Drayton Specialized Crit Series - Event 2 Sat 25/03/17 34 miles
West Drayton Specialized Crit Series - Event 3 Sat 01/04/17 34 miles
61st Archer Spring Criterium - Sat 08/04/17 either 1hr race or 50 miles race
Westerley Spring Crits - Sat 22/04/17 1hr[/b]

On Tuesday nights the BC West Thames series starts from 11/04/17 - 08/08/17 and there's a choice between 40 mins or 1 hr races. [b]As many as I can.[/b]

The 34 mile races sound really good, 85 mins?, not sure I have it in me for race pace for that long but it would certainly be an eye opener!!

Managed to open my BC points account at Wakefield Circuits inaugural race at the weekend it was my 4th race. Was a podium position to boot. There was a 2 man break off the front the whole race but I managed a solo break from the bunch with 2 laps to go as everyone behind me slowed to avoid a crash to finish 3rd. 5 points to go to cat 3 and another race tonight...

Awesome! Good luck!

Cheers, managed 5th (4th in Bunch sprint) and 5 points takes me to cat 3. All achieved inside 4 days. Now the hard races start I think as no more Cat 4 only for me

That's good going! Well done you!

Thanks! I thought it would take all season to get here... Back to hard training now after 3 weeks of racing. I have some road races booked for spring including a 2/3/4 which is 66 miles long. Will be a different kettle of fish I think!

Wow, well done fella... that's mightly impressive for sure !

Nice one! Not jealous at all that it took me 9 races 😆

I've learnt so much in those 9 though, only 2 weren't fun:
4/9 Hillingdon as punctured
8/9 Hillingdon as a club turned up and were choppy as fudge!

I should probably do a structured training plan to get the most out of my fitness, but there's no time if I'm potentially racing from the 18th... 😆

I should probably do a structured training plan to get the most out of my fitness, but there's no time if I'm potentially racing from the 18th...

Even when I was racing properly, I rarely used much in the way of strcutured training, I just raced muyself fit.
Midweek crits to build speed and racecraft, weekend races got me the long fast miles. I could happily stay in the E/1/2 groups although I rarely saw the front and wasn't competitive in them but it was always fun.

Higher level races are far steadier as well, much less of the attack/sit up/attack format of an average 4th Cat group.

I've had no specific training plan, just tried to average 180 miles a week including 2 hard sessions, the main one bing 40 mile chaingang on Sat am, which is 23mph plus. Without that session it would have been much harder I think. made the crits seem easy effort wise and enabled me to focus on the positioning and tactics required to finish up there.

Congratulations djglover - that's impressive work!

Ah it took me 3/4 races to get comfortable in the pack, my early 7th place was a fluke - helped by a crash. It's only the last 3? Races were I've had a plan and the last race it all came together, nearly spectacularly with a 1st...

The next set of races, if I take part in them, are going to be a new learning curve - +33% longer and 2/3/4s...

Other than upping my water bottle from 550ml to 750ml I've got no further plan 😆

The higher cat races I have watched have been much faster with sustained attacks and big breaks, sometimes containing all the points contenders working together. Its going to be a whole different ball game, that said all my races for the rest of the year will be on the road rather than crits which I am hoping will mean steadier sustained efforts rather than sprit, surge rest... !

TiRed races on a propel.

I started on a used 2007 alloy TCR for £400, upgraded to a Propel Advanced frame with the same 7yo Ultegra groupset, wrote that off in the "great crash of 2015", upgraded to a nice white Propel SL which is run stock.

I also race my Defy SL when it gets hilly, but that is a bit too nice to crash! I've flung the Propels down the road a few times, been over the bars twice last season on the SL. It's pretty robust. I ran over a Colnago C60 on it and survived (the C60 did not).

And there is quite a difference between 4th cat and higher cat races, even 3/4 - and not just pace. Having ridden most of the 4th cat Winter Series races, I can say that there is, sadly, a distinct lack of strategy. This is unsurprising, because most people are learning to ride in a bunch. But fortune favours the brave, and you will learn a lot more by trying to attack (and failing), than sitting in for an inevitable sprint (assuming you survive the crash).

Nathb has shown this to good effect. You have to be prepared to lose in order to win (or win points anyway). A team can help too, because it is possible to control the bunch with three or four dedicated riders on the front. Once you make it to 3rd cat, you can't go down. But the list of objectives resets to number 2.

I'll race at Hillingdon a lot this season, but most of the road races (central RR and Surrey League) are hugely over-subscribed at the moment! It's harder to get a place than it is to race!

Here is my race bike, its a 2015 Giant TCR, I changed the wheels to Prime 38mm carbon running schwalbe one tubeless, and the saddle and bar tape. I think the wheels have made a big difference to how the bike performs

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3795/33164816782_37eb9264f9_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3795/33164816782_37eb9264f9_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/SwEmzU ]20170308_100212[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/60401414@N00/ ]danjwilkinson[/url], on Flickr

@TiRed - thanks for the nice feedback 🙂

@djglover - bike looks really nice!

I'm back to riding without power too, so going to see how much of a difference it makes. In races I used it on solo attacks to ensure I still had enough juice left in me should the attack fail (and of course they all did) based around my FTP and perceived effort/HR. 34/50 mile crits are going to be a crash fest 😆

I would love to have the power and endurance to attack or to try and shape the races but realistically, the only advantage I have is over 200m.
The rest of my power curve has nothing to offer 🙂

So for now, I'm resigned to finding as much shelter as I can bring myself to use in the hope that I can surf my way to the front group on the last lap and try a sprint.

Nath- you did what, circa 6000miles last year? So you have a great base. If you are getting the hours in anyway, there's probably not that much a training plan would offer that you're not already doing organically anyway.
The main 2 questions to ask are "what are my goals?" and "what are my limiters?" and in Cat 4- that was pretty much only 'Tactics!'

If you race on the 18th, you should hopefully get an answer to both that may help you narrow your focus for one or two training sessions a week.
But if it ain't broke, don't fix it 🙂

o for now, I'm resigned to finding as much shelter as I can bring myself to use in the hope that I can surf my way to the front group on the last lap and try a sprint.

I found the best way to do this was put my nose in the wind for 1/2 a lap, move up to the front and wait for the bunch to turn across me, thus bullying someone else out of position. You'll annoy people but it works quite well!

@CH- 5,600 miles 😆
Not sure what my goal is yet, it was get to 3rd. I guess it should be 2nds now? Just mentally need to prepare myself for not being in contention - and like you keep telling me - be a little more arrogant with what I've got.

Guys, I've got some Fulcrum Racing Quattros 35mm sat in the garage doing nothing. My other bike is a disc braked commuter that would be used for training in adverse conditions and there's no mountains in the UK. Racing would always be done on my 45mm carbon wheels. Can you envisage any situation where I'd fit the Fulcrums over the carbon wheels? I can't therefore thinking of selling them on...

Personally I think it's quite useful having spare wheels in case of crash / buckle / freehub poppage or other hassle. Guess it depends on how much you'd get for them. Unlikely to be loads, I'd have thought.

It's more about the space and whether or not I'd ever use them...may be down sizing in the next few months or so..

My carbon wheels never come off that bike and I only kept the originals as I passed them down to my very old summer bike and sold the wheels from that. Having said that, I have found 3 bikes to be useful over winter when my winter trainer wheel bearings were being serviced and it was too crappy for the summer bike, so maybe keep them for that kind of scenario, as gray says

Dammit, you people are amateurs !

You don't need fewer wheels, you need moar frames&forks 😀

I had 3 bikes once, does that count? 😆

I had 3 bikes once, does that count?

Seven road bikes at the moment and contemplating another 😳

Race bike
Back-up race bike stored away from home for when visiting relatives
Nice road bike for dry day training and racing on hilly courses
Winter road bike with full guards (actually a cross bike with road groupset)
Winter fixed road bike with full guards
TT bike
Cross bike running 1x10 with SLR aero wheels (it does go off road with just a switch of wheels)

As for wheels, well I've been a prodigious collector of used Ksyrium Elites, and have a few sets of Giant SLRs in 10 and 11 speed. Basically I can pull four bikes at short notice for a race if needed. And if all else fails, then it's Teen1's CAAD8 or Teen2's Alloy Defy with some swapped wheels.

The nice part is that I'm not precious about the bikes (Except the nice one), and am happy to lend them out to would-be racers in our club. It's always nice to see my bike in the peloton from close quarters 🙂

And it really doesn't matter what you race, it is not about the bike, and the mainly flat closed courses don't really favour lightweight carbon bling, they DO favour stiff alloy frames and wheels though. My last Winter Series race on my winter road (cross) bike didn't feel any different to my race bike!

I'm going to print that out next time the missus is complaining about my bike stuff 😆

@TiRed are you doing the 2/3/4 Race on Sat 18/03/17??

I've got loads of bikes in Edinburgh (although more mountain bikes than road) but only really have space for one bike in my London flat so my pour old Roubaix is taking quite a battering. I do have several sets of wheels for it - more by accident than design though - I'd asked my wife for some RS81 C35's for my birthday but then spotted a set of Dura-ace C24's at a price that couldn't be refused! Currently using the C35's as my everyday wheels and will keep the C24's for when I go somewhere hilly.

@TiRed are you doing the 2/3/4 Race on Sat 18/03/17??

Still looking at road race options. Can't think of a good reason not too. I crashed in that race a few years ago on my first outing on what is now the Back-up race bike!

@TiRed - great, CH is in the 4s. Didn't want to race on my own haha.

Going to talk to the boss about it tonight 🙂

I was totally in the 'the bike doesn't matter' camp until Nath and I swapped for a few laps. We were going anti-clockwise and I crested the 'hill' about 5mph quicker than usual 😀

If I had 4w/kg then granted- 2.5kg on the bike wouldn't make any difference. But accelerating that 2.5kg back up to speed what? 100 times a race? Is surely a pretty tangible gain?

I'm not under the illusion that I'm going to go from barely hanging with the bunch to points by buying a bike. But if I have a few more BPM in hand on the last lap then I'll be very pleased with my purchase.

(I've already eaten Weeksy's humble pie 😆 )

We all learn CH, we have our ideas and they're massively important to us, but sometimes over time we learn that we're not always correct.
I'll be very curious to see what happens

Are you coming to watch Weeksy?

Weeksy- I don't think I've changed my initial viewpoint though- the BTwin wasn't causing me to get dropped- poor positioning was....

There is some added motivation in living up to a better bike too 😉

Are you coming to watch Weeksy?

Unknown fella

@CH, fair point.

@weeksy - Was going to say if you're coming to watch might as well get a place sorted 😆

I'm all booked in... now to start training for a 34 mile race 😯

Latex tubes just fitted and I'll be doing my gold chain tomorrow evening hopefully 🙂

I want to join the 9pm race: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/159395/London-Nocturne

@Tired- Do you have any clockwise lap tips, just in case? I have done a few whilst there practicing but it feels odd 😀

Well if you are free tomorrow afternoon (1-5PM), and want to dip your toes into club riding, TCC have a skills afternoon focusing on group riding, and possibly some racing skills too 😈 . I'll be helping to lead it and can supply spare jersey 😉 . Happy to vouch for you. This won't be for the Surrey League accreditation, but now you are a third cat you don't need it 😀

As for clockwise racing, well, the two courses tend to blur for me. It always feels faster clockwise, probably because the entry into Brian's Bends is not uphill and not pinched by the kink in the road. Going up the straight, the peloton has a tendency to bunch into the right-handed turn 1 as riders on the outside try and take a shorter path, and that is how I was brought down by a clashing of handlebars. Best to stay a little further out. Down the slope and the 90 degree before the clubhouse is VERY fast, and I've been pushed off into the bushes on a last lap jostle there. The sprint can start anywhere, but the long straight makes for a slightly safer finish in my opinion.

I like them both; Tuesdays 3/4 and E123 are clockwise, Wednesdays Vets and TTs are anti-clockwise.

Might be able to sneak out to be at Hillingdon for 4pm, but obviously that's no use! (I've got potential tenants coming tomorrow afternoon 🙁 )

Ah sweet, I forgot it was only for 4ths! Might have to try a couple then, if I can find some space.

Won't officially be a 3rd until Monday 😆

crosshair
I was totally in the 'the bike doesn't matter' camp until Nath and I swapped for a few laps. We were going anti-clockwise and I crested the 'hill' about 5mph quicker than usual

Were you using the same tyres?

I averaged c. 280w for 80 mins last night on a pan flat route and averaged 33kph. This was on my winter bike, which is a similar weight to my race bike but has wiggle prime race tyres instead of gp4000s. I'd expect that power produce around 35kph on the summer bike.

CH uses Gatorskins, my bike had GP4000s

CH uses Gatorskins, my bike had GP4000s

Well we'll soon find out the answer when CH gets out on the new bike testing... (assuming he's running Gators)

or sub 8kg bike on GP4000s outperforms 10+kg? bike on gatorskins if we are going down that route 🙂

I believe he's also purchased some Gp4000s for good measure.

Sometimes I think nobody reads these threads 😆

I had 28mm GP4000's and the rear rubbed so I ran GP/Gator for one race and crashed.

Then the new front wheel made the GP taller so that rubbed too so I ended up back on Gator/Gator.

I now have the 28mm GP's on my CX bike and they don't really give me a performance advantage over running Gators on there.....

I now have 2x 25mm GP's ready to go on the new bike but I may stick them on the BTwin on the 18th....

Clear as mud 🙂

We read but we can't memorise it all! I struggle to remember my own tyres !

In other news my gold chain is fitted (after battling with the "quick" link").

[img] [/img]

For what it's worth I was racing on 27mm Vitoria open paves. Have just changed my groupset this weekend from ancient worn out Sora to new shiny 105, I didn't expect to notice much difference but think I have gained watts from having a clean drivetrain !

Ooo nice shiny shiny purchase Tomvet. When's your next race? Fancy coming to Hillingdon on the 18th?

If the weathers good I'm going to pretend I'm a photographer during the 4s race 😆

Not to mention being an official cyclinghubtv camera man 😆

Maybe 😆

It's a bit marmitey?? I'm not sure on it yet:

[img] [/img]

I don't like marmite. Or gold chaims but it will dull with oil. As for the shifters. Need to be lower and vertical if you want proper control on the drops on the road. That might need a slightly shorter stem.

Raced Surrey League 3/4 road race today. Avoided the crashes for a possible top 10 place. Felt the effects of my training amend the nice 25c Corsa G+ tyres at 90 psi. One crash was over a hump in the road, I think the rider had his hands on the hoods and the impact dislodged them. Always get a good comfortable position on the drops. Even if it is not long/low/slammed.

@tired - yeah I just need to tilt my bars down a little, the position changed with spacers.

I thought you were training at Hillingdon today?

Race sounds good - congrats!

Tempted to hit the buy button on a powerpod...

I think it's a great device. It can send power from indoor trainers, but no different to any other speed sensor talking to Zwift. So not really for that.

I find swapping between bikes is a bit of a pain. But that's because I only have the one speed sensor. So I moved pod2 onto the racebike today and it thinks it's still my fixed wheel road bike. Rode for 8min and it adapts to the slight change in tilt angle (does this automatically). Then rode and raced 100km. Power is consistent but is up by about 20-30 watts.

Those watts are aero watts. My race bike has an aero frame and deep section wheels. Plus nicer tyres. Hence savings for the same speed or faster for same effort. But absolutely rock solid consistency.

I'm thinking of buying another. I definitely need another speed sensor to adjust for the aero watts and tell it this is a different bike. But it's a super device. Only a matter of time before they hit big take up.

And sadly I've had to take teen2 out this afternoon so coaching was curtailed 🙁

Yeah they seem a great piece of kit, the only reason I haven't purchased yet is because I wanted one I could use on the turbo trainer, for cross referencing the two..

Thinking of heading to Hillingdon shortly to get on after 5pm for an hour if you want to join?

I got called into the club house for a cup of tea and biscuits - you twicks guys are so welcoming 🙂

Just been building on base fitness with a couple of flying laps. Latex tubes make the wheels/tyres sound really nice! 😆

https://www.strava.com/activities/896286842

Sorry but it's boring looking at a ride without power data 😆

DCRainmakers review of the powerpod made me want one just because it sounds so cool 🙂
Get it bought 😀